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Harbinger is Making Roaming Unbearable


Malkarne.8167

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23 hours ago, Mikhael.2391 said:

On a similar note, willbender is the only good viable way to roam,not op in anyway

All the other classes are so OP I have to use the only sensible class that just happen to  be - completely unrelated because it's not OP at all - FOTM meta.

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Definitely more willbenders than harbingers around in WvW. I have tried to convince necro roaming mates to build harbinger and thay prefer to stick to reaper. They are annoying to fight in 1vs1, but u rarely find one alone. Its very dificult to find one good harbinger player in wvw that roams alone, because he/she knows most of the time the combats will be unbalanced. Although some skills are too powerful and need some nerf, I think its a spec that adds nice, unseen till the date, roaming capabilities to the necro class and its a good complement to a small 5 man roaming group.

With respect to celestial, I think it is not a problem. There are a lot of classes and specs that can be built around celestial and to consider OP something that has become so general is a mistake by definition. For me OP is some "niche" build, skill or trait (or a combination) that is restricted to one spec or to a particular build setup, something that puts that player one level or two above the rest in a clear way. Celestial is just a stat set available to everyone, and its true that at the beginning very few specs benefited from it but it is not the case right now; it is too spread among classes and almost every class has a celestial build available.

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3 minutes ago, Blackfish.7349 said:

Celestial is just a stat set available to everyone, and its true that at the beginning very few specs benefited from it but it is not the case right now; it is too spread among classes and almost every class has a celestial build available.

Everyone can run broken crap -> its fine. OK.

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On 5/17/2022 at 5:13 PM, Mikhael.2391 said:

On a similar note, willbender is the only good viable way to roam,not op in anyway since all previous mentioned classes have same burst or better with boon strips more cc and same mobility plus stealth, DH can be easily targeted and killed when focused with very litle ways to escape, firebrand is healbot only and boon giver and core guardian is nowhere to be seen, completly deleted due to nerf in weapons like focus 5 for burst damage and mace 3, and even hammer2 even traited. Almost 0 mobility to run away or means to survive outnumbered fights.

 

This is not for discussion it is as it is.

willbender is the most overpowered spec of them all lol

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On 5/13/2022 at 1:38 PM, Malkarne.8167 said:

Everywhere you go there's that FOTM spec. They are by far the most common class now, I barely even see Thieves anymore. Too much damage, too much sustain/mobility, and annoying as hell to fight. Yes I've beat them but frankly it's just not worth fighting them. One wrong move and you're dead before you know it. Please hurry up and fix them, roaming has been miserable since that spec came out.

When a class drives out THIEVES, you know it's a problem. Then again it's par for the course for this post-expansion powercreep. How many years it's been, witnessing this same song and dance to sell the expansion make money at peoples' expense. I am not surprised at this point.

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Yeah maybe objectively Ele's could be OP but I'd put them at the bottom of the list of priorities. A well-played Ele is probably the scariest class to fight, but they're so hard to play I don't begrudge them for being the strongest with an incredibly high skill ceiling. A bad Ele is a free kill, a good one is a hell of a fight, and a great one is kitten near unbeatable. But they earn it!

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I think all the times I've found myself cursing Harb or Willbender so far seem to involve multiples. Because you get these groups that have a ton of CC and are pretty good at rotating people to the back if they get pressured (all the movement abilities make it pretty easy), as well as dropping AOE pressure that makes it hard to take out their downs or res yours.

When you're like 1v3 they can chain CC you pretty hard and back it up with boon rips (and even just getting Immob'd by the Guardians is pretty lethal because they have strong burst) — they tend to deplete your Stab and stun breaks quickly if they at all know what they're doing, and then you can't really afford to stick around and try to whittle them down because you know more brutal CC is coming soon. When you've got even numbers you have to hope the people with you play real tight or you're just gonna watch 2-3 people eat the same burst combo.

And Harb+Willie weaknesses can be compensated pretty well by your usual bursty Soulbeast or Daredevil type, or by some kind of zoomy unkillable support barfing out cleanses.

None of the above is a balance whine per se, but I think Harb/Willbender just have an easier time engaging into small groups and getting good damage on multiple enemies at once than the usual "we are roamers, that means there's five of us and we run away constantly" playstyle builds do, and that's got a really big impact on the small-group side of things. Of course, also, they're still pretty new, which means you can farm some people just by dint of them not knowing which of your various skill animations actually does big damage.

Edited by ASP.8093
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The boon generation from harbinger is plain dumb. Everytime theres a roaming harbinger   it has permanent all boons (dont ask how). Bring the boon generation to a level like all other classes have. None  Or  do nothing besides boons

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Harbinger  is so stupid op in wvw roaming , how it have not been nerfed in a hotfix is horrible and shows me how biased the ballance person is.

 

Harbinger removed the only weakness necro have and on top gave them realy good damage on top.

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4 hours ago, Sansar.1302 said:

Harbinger  is so stupid op in wvw roaming , how it have not been nerfed in a hotfix is horrible and shows me how biased the ballance person is.

Harbinger removed the only weakness necro have and on top gave them realy good damage on top.

Technically its glassy, if condi didn't exist. But you can build condi bunkers on anything, cause the game is special like that.

The power build I actually like, its like fighting a ranged reaper (that is not as tanky, due to not being melee). It breathes some fresh air for power necro builds. But I've seen like 2 power harbs in wvw since the release of eod.

Edited by Hotride.2187
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There is something oppressive about fighting harb. It is very difficult to get in on them, and as soon as they have even a split second they can fire off a very fast ability that forces you to burn a major cleanse/stunbreak or several minor cleanses. Their condi damage is absurdly high so you will find yourself cleansing smaller stacks than normal. Their overall low but powerful CDs means they will have advantage over a sustained fight, but it is also nearly impossible for most professions to effectively space them and mitigate that. There is also missing counterplay - can't reflect elixirs or shroud AA. In a group they provide 1 button pulsing quickness with minimal tradeoff (no need to play a bad build or deal with janky range/timing).

 

But the most surprising is their damage reduction/sustain. You can seem to be playing very well, dodging their powerful stuff and whittling them down, then they suddenly seem to be back at full HP? You don't really 'feel' their HP penalty - their effective HP seems not much different from anyone else. Their 'effective hp regen' is also stupidly high.

 

In playstyle they are most similar to condi Renegade, which is relatively balanced. But the difference in power level is laughable.

 

 

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I dunno they don't really seem great, at least not to me. Yeah they have good burst when they switch into Harby Shroud but you can just throw down some projectile reflect or destruction and you've completely destroyed their burst window.

I know the heal skill is very strong though and might need a split to bring down its base power.

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On 5/22/2022 at 7:43 AM, Sarrs.4831 said:

I dunno they don't really seem great, at least not to me. Yeah they have good burst when they switch into Harby Shroud but you can just throw down some projectile reflect or destruction and you've completely destroyed their burst window.

I know the heal skill is very strong though and might need a split to bring down its base power.

The heal skill is already split, actually; it's just a weird split where it's like 40% stronger in SPvP and WvW. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Elixir_of_Promise

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On 5/20/2022 at 5:29 PM, JTGuevara.9018 said:

When a class drives out THIEVES, you know it's a problem. Then again it's par for the course for this post-expansion powercreep. How many years it's been, witnessing this same song and dance to sell the expansion make money at peoples' expense. I am not surprised at this point.

Harb hasn't actually driven out thieves, in my experience.

I tried Harbinger out a bunch this weekend, hoping to learn their tricks and maybe add a new roaming build to my skillset — every time the BL I was on turned into a constant 5v1 fest, I felt compelled to go back to thief so I could actually do stuff in those battles besides popping all my stun breaks and running away. It's a pretty strong spec but they still have many of the traditional necro vulnerabilities; including vulnerability to focus and the fact that you can't really stomp.

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On 5/13/2022 at 1:38 PM, Malkarne.8167 said:

Everywhere you go there's that FOTM spec. They are by far the most common class now, I barely even see Thieves anymore. Too much damage, too much sustain/mobility, and annoying as hell to fight. Yes I've beat them but frankly it's just not worth fighting them. One wrong move and you're dead before you know it. Please hurry up and fix them, roaming has been miserable since that spec came out.

I play harb to Roam. Ive won my fair share, and lost my fair share. Quit complaining.

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6 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

I used one.

 

And? One is often all that's needed to setup a burst, which would shred most Harbs since they are kinda glassy even with Cele.  If they didn't have any of the boons on them they'd go down quick--from fighting them it seems very much burst or be bursted.  

That is, whoever bursts first wins.  Having a sustained fight is different, but this sounds like it was not a long encounter at all.

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