Why is there no player trading?

[Buzzbugs.1236]

I thought of this again today when I was deciding whether or not I wanted to sell a stack of rare materials on the trading post. Upon seeing the 25 gold listing fee, I hesitated and sighed to myself, why doesn't GW2 have player trading?

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Because it encourages scamming and areas like Spamadam.  The Trading Post is convenient and is a necessary Gold sink. 

[Buzzbugs.1236]

4 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Because it encourages scamming and areas like Spamadam.  The Trading Post is convenient and is a necessary Gold sink. 

Do you work for Arenanet?

These are not good reasons from a players perspective.

[Ultramex.1506]

5 minutes ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

Do you work for Arenanet?

These are not good reasons from a players perspective.

Do you represent the players?

No one have made a fuss about the TP for a long time till you show up

[Healix.5819]

Here was the response given back in beta

Quote

Hey guys,

The no face-to-face trade is a real decision and it’s primarily a question of trust (as many of you have noted). But it’s also a decision to protect players from scamming and protect the economy from black-markets. Let’s run through some quick examples.

1) Give something to my friend. – As several of you noted, target your friend, right click the item and select ‘mail-to…’. Done, this works in contact list, guild list, or in world anywhere without having to ‘meet’ them or ‘catch’ them.

2) Get a fair price for an item (anti-scam). – Because ALL trading goes through the trading post we can guarantee that highest bidder meets lowest seller and we can give every player the benefit of current market information.

3) Barter item-for-item. This is the grey area and also the most risky kind of trade because even with UI many items look alike in icon and many social engineering scams take place in this kind of system. It’s a risky trade environment which is why when you support it you have to have these multi-stage UI’s where everyone double-checks everything, and then eventually get’s lazy and stops double-checking and gets scammed anyways.

In the end we decided with super easy access to mail for trusted trades and trading post for untrusted trades that such a system wasn’t worth the risk, complication, and fragmenting the player market off of the trading post..

In testing we’ve found that mail is easier 90% of the time we’d want trade and the other 10% trading post is far safer and avoids drama and thing like random trade windows being thrown at you and lots of other unsavory hawking in game.

Hope that all makes sense.

- Curtis Johnson

[Buzzbugs.1236]

Just now, Ultramex.1506 said:

Do you represent the players?

I represent myself. As a player of this game for 9 years.

[Lottie.5370]

4 minutes ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

Do you work for Arenanet?

These are not good reasons from a players perspective.

 

Then just use one of the community trading hubs? There's r/GW2Exchange and the Overflow discord community.

 

Also you have a stupid argument, the trading post is extremely convenient from a player's perspective unless you're trying to minmax on every single trade. Having to rely solely on player trades is awful, it takes longer to sell everything and longer to buy everything you need - and there might not even be what you want available because the people with it are not online/in the same location.

[Buzzbugs.1236]

2 minutes ago, Lottie.5370 said:

 

Then just use one of the community trading hubs? There's r/GW2Exchange and the Overflow discord community.

 

Also you have a stupid argument, the trading post is extremely convenient from a player's perspective unless you're trying to minmax on every single trade. Having to rely solely on player trades is awful, it takes longer to sell everything and longer to buy everything you need - and there might not even be what you want available because the people with it are not online/in the same location.

I never said there shouldn't be a trading post. My argument is simply that it would be nice to have player trading as an option for those bulk sales that have huge trading post listing fees. How is that a stupid argument to have?

It's a much better argument than "We disabled this feature for all players because someone might get scammed one day".

[Randulf.7614]

They weighed it up against the sheer number of issues they had in gw1. It clearly was something they didn’t want to waste valuable support time with and since the market and economy is better controlled with a central trading post, they decided not to return to something that caused them and a lot of players, unnecessary issues.

Plus it stops all that chat spam. Overall, it’s been a positive thing even if some haven’t liked the restriction.

[Buzzbugs.1236]

7 minutes ago, Randulf.7614 said:

Plus it stops all that chat spam. Overall, it’s been a positive thing even if some haven’t liked the restriction.

I've come to expect that in main cities in most MMO's, I think many others probably feel the same way. It's not a detrimental kind of spam, I see it more as like walking through a busy marketplace and there's sellers trying to get your attention and sell their wares. If anything it makes the cities feel more active during those quiet periods when there's nothing to talk about.

In some MMO's ive seen the game have it's own, separate "Trade" sub-section in the chat window, so if you don't want to get spammed you can just not open the trade sub-section.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Buzzbugs.1236

[Tyncale.1629]

I think people are being too harsh on the OP. The arguments that Anet gives are somewhat valid in themselves but I do not think they are being quit honest about the most important reasons behind the TP: the very consistent money sink and 10x less Customer Service requests from players that feel they have been treated unfairly during the trade. Like "I thought I had a good deal but then I found out I did not because apparently this item sells for 10 copper average instead of 5 gold". 

 

Even so I think that player to player trade could help a bit with the social aspect of the game, which is somewhat lacking anyway (as with most MMO's).  Bartering, talking to a person, actually  knowing the name from whom you bought something.  I liked the dedicated trade channel in Everquest.  The TP in GW2 is a cold-hearted trade-partner. 

Edited May 22, 2022 by Tyncale.1629

[Ashen.2907]

27 minutes ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

Do you work for Arenanet?

These are not good reasons from a players perspective.

Those are fantastic reasons from a player perspective. Controlling inflation benefits me as a player. Keeping trading locked to the TP means lower prices overall. Reducing the demand for GM attention due to scams means lower wait times for support issues. 

In every way the current system is better for players.

[Lottie.5370]

3 minutes ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

I never said there shouldn't be a trading post. My argument is simply that it would be nice to have player trading as an option for those bulk sales that have huge trading post listing fees. How is that a stupid argument to have?

It's a much better argument than "We disabled this feature for all players because someone might get scammed one day".

 

People get scammed all the time with player trading.

 

There is no need for two trading systems, you can still trade with other players via the mail system, you just have to organise it privately.

[Ultramex.1506]

3 minutes ago, Tyncale.1629 said:

I think people are being too harsh on the OP.

I admit, my reply was hostile after seeing OP "Do you work for Arenanet?"

Still, the system is fine as is it, no need for extra even if there are number of people wanting it

[Buzzbugs.1236]

3 minutes ago, Lottie.5370 said:

 

People get scammed all the time with player trading.

 

There is no need for two trading systems, you can still trade with other players via the mail system, you just have to organise it privately.

There is more risk of being scammed in the trading method you are proposing, where it's entirely based on your faith that the other person will come through.

An actual player-to-player trading system will ensure nobody gets scammed in the transaction 🙂

 

Edited May 22, 2022 by Buzzbugs.1236

[Ashen.2907]

3 minutes ago, Tyncale.1629 said:

I think people are being too harsh on the OP. 

I might agree if it werent for the fact that he asked a question and implied that the first person who answered, politely and accurately, was a company shill.

[Tyncale.1629]

2 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

I might agree if it werent for the fact that he asked a question and implied that the first person who answered, politely and accurately, was a company shill.

 Ok, make that "I think people are being too harsh on the OP's opinion".  🙂 

[Lottie.5370]

8 minutes ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

An actual player-to-player trading system will ensure nobody gets scammed in the transaction 🙂

 

 

Soooo, the trading post then?

[mythical.6315]

41 minutes ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

Do you work for Arenanet?

These are not good reasons from a players perspective.

 

So you ask a question, get an answer, and then question the one who provided you the answer?  Why ask the question if you are already set on a particular answer?

[Ashen.2907]

6 minutes ago, Tyncale.1629 said:

 Ok, make that "I think people are being too harsh on the OP's opinion".  🙂 

Solid point.

 

Personally I enjoyed player to player trading in gw1. Trade is a minigame in both gw1 and gw2, but in 2 it is a spreadsheeting market game. In gw1 it was a bazaar trade game. "Youre killing me here, you think I can stay in business selling these for that price?!?!?!" 

But I recognize the benefits of gw2's system and dont think that, "I am willing to see massive inflationary trends in order to save a few gold," is a particularly good argument.

The stuff about scamming doesnt bother me as much because I am capable of reading a trade window. 

Prices would go up dramatically if the two systems existed side by side.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Ashen.2907

[Rasimir.6239]

1 minute ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

In this case, an actual player-to-player trading system will ensure nobody gets scammed in the transaction 🙂

Sorry, but there are thousands upon thousands of cases all over games with player-to-player trading that prove that this is false.

 

There's "confuse the buyer until they no longer thoroughly check the trade and get scammed", there's "scam the new/inexperienced player that doesn't know how to properly check the value of the item that's being traded", there's a multitude of other ways being used all over the internet to rip off people in player-to-player trade.

 

Personally I vastly prefer this game's trading system over any other game I've played because it ensures fair prices for everyone. No matter what server, what region, what map you're on, you have access to current market prices for everything and don't have to waste your time researching prices and haggling with potential buyers/sellers.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

10 minutes ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

There is more risk of being scammed in the trading method you are proposing, where it's entirely based on your faith that the other person will come through.

An actual player-to-player trading system will ensure nobody gets scammed in the transaction 🙂

 

Did/do you happen to play Guild Wars?  It employs player-to-player trading and scams are not uncommon.  https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Scam#Identifying_a_scam

[Silent.6137]

46 minutes ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

An actual player-to-player trading system will ensure nobody gets scammed in the transaction 🙂

 

If you've played enough MMOs, you'd know that system is always subjected to scammers who prey on others, especially newbies.

[nembool.5981]

The 15% trade tax is too high. Maybe Ebon Gnashblade needs to rethink it and have a free listing day once in a while, make it seem less like he's getting money for nothing. 😛

[Gehenna.3625]

2 hours ago, Buzzbugs.1236 said:

Do you work for Arenanet?

Clearly he doesn't.

Quote

These are not good reasons from a players perspective.

But they are good reasons also for players when they think about it. Avoiding scams and having gold sinks are two very good reasons...when you think about it. Go to SWTOR and see what happens when a game doesn't have good gold sinks. The game economy is ridiculous there. Things on their TP cost like a billion credits (their version of gold), it's gotten completely out of hand and because of it new players who haven't had time to make credits there are completely overwhelmed by the prices on their TP (GTN). 

So if a player is short-sighted then it doesn't sound good because you pay a tax every time you trade, but from a long-term player perspective it really is good because your gold will still be worth something over time and the dailies reward of 2g is also still worth something, for example.

Edited May 22, 2022 by Gehenna.3625