Evil Octopi.8253 Posted May 29, 2022 Share Posted May 29, 2022 I am sure there has been a number of treads for both nerfing and not nerfiing the Dragon's End meta, and I bet they all have great points. I just want to say I am pretty sick of failing it. The other EoD map metas, lots of fun, playing with everyone, doing all the things, emerging victorious. Most times you can join a map from LFG, even if you are not early, and most times win. That has not been my experience with Dragons End. I have beat it 4 times so far since launch, but I am probably looking at 1:4 win/loss ratio. Just today, failed twice, wasting 4+ hours of my day. Not gonna lie, I feel pretty invalidated. I want to play and do all the lead up to the meta and the final boss as the whole thing feels pretty epic, but I'm really starting to associate Dragon's End with un-fun that should be avoided. If I'm feeling this way I bet others are too, I mean those were full maps I was on. I'm going to try one more time today since I have time. Take it as feedback, or a crazy rant, or whatever. 34 9 5 10 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Farohna.6247 Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 I had several really good metas at the start of EoD, but lately all the groups I join need like four more minutes to finish the fight. It is indeed tiring. 10 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veprovina.4876 Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 Well, since devs ignored most of the really good criticism, don't expect it to change. 24 3 12 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGarlic.1834 Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 I'm not going to criticise the meta. It is what it is. But for me, after 13 attempts and 13 failures, I gave up wasting time on it. There is so much else to do in the game that is actually enjoyable or achievable, so I do those instead. (I could do with the mastery point though.) 19 2 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyDan.4759 Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 If a squad of 43 untameds can beat it then anyone can. 4 7 7 18 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lysico.4906 Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 Only failed once. Done it about dozen times. 11am est us servers always nail it 6 2 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultramex.1506 Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 I could copy&paste what i've said it many times before on other posts that said this is hard, but will get disliked again, so i will leave this here Yesterday 3 of my guildies run a squad full of newbies and was able to clear it, very close to fail i might add because they didnt bother to explain. Peace! 6 11 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vayne.8563 Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 I've beaten it far more often than I've failed it, but I look for specific groups. I generally don't join random groups because it's a long event and I don't want to waste two hours just to see. I treat it like Triple Trouble. If one of the guilds I know (or one of the people) isn't running it, neither am I. 6 1 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAlcedo.3281 Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 It still fails? Serious question. Haven't been in PvE since shortly after EoD release. 1 3 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrGarlic.1834 Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 If you live in a time-zone where there are fewer people online, then it is considerably harder to find a group doing the meta, if there are any groups at all. I'm not saying there aren't any groups, but it is much harder to get into one if there is. Mostly the only people I see doing the meta are the ones who just turned up on the map and are just 'giving it a go' because there is no organised group. It pretty much always fails, it has for me. 8 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said: It still fails? Serious question. Haven't been in PvE since shortly after EoD release. The dedicated commanders/grups (filled with mostly the same players day after day) mostly succeed. Random ad-hoc groups with your usual OW crowd almost always fail. Although by now most players from the second group usually just give up on the map after 2-3 failures and stop coming back. Edited May 30, 2022 by Astralporing.1957 15 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotride.2187 Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 (edited) What, you don't like to always fail something after 1 hour 30 min of pre-events? Woah, I would have never guessed this. All my WoW raiding, it was always like that. Do some repetitive and boring stuff for over an hour, then try the boss for 10 min. Then again the boring stuff. Or wait... it wasn't like that. Cause Blizzard weren't lunatics when I still played WoW. Come to think of it... most games I've played don't have you wait so long to retry an encounter. Even the infamous runbacks from souls are like less than 1 min of running back (and honestly even that is poor taste). But hey at least the meta is Epic. Fail. Edited May 30, 2022 by Hotride.2187 12 1 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoni.7015 Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 (edited) I have now over 40 successful runs in a row. With a little bit of organization the meta is not difficult and a lot of fun. Edited May 30, 2022 by yoni.7015 8 1 2 16 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorem.8104 Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 8 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said: Well, since devs ignored most of the really good criticism, don't expect it to change. Yup, we gave them many, many ideas and suggestions that would fix it for literally everyone and make the fight better for everyone, and they ignored everyone and just did what they wanted to do anyway while acting smug about it as they kept doing damage control for months and changing it in nearly every single update since launch. Just one big change to it already. Its not fun. Its not well designed. Its a long time costing slog for no rewards that has a high chance to fail. 17 3 1 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venator.8326 Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 I have not yet attempted the EOD meta because I hear and read about the fail rate, the time investment that is needed with a bigger chance to fail is not worth doing it atm till it gets fixed. Also the rewards for doing that meta are bad some say what makes it even more a fail to even try to do it. 11 1 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAlcedo.3281 Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said: The dedicated commanders/grups (filled with mostly the same players day after day) mostly succeed. Random ad-hoc groups with your usual OW crowd almost always fail. Although by now most players from the second group usually just give up on the map after 2-3 failures and stop coming back. Ty for answer. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
venator.8326 Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said: The dedicated commanders/grups (filled with mostly the same players day after day) mostly succeed. Random ad-hoc groups with your usual OW crowd almost always fail. Although by now most players from the second group usually just give up on the map after 2-3 failures and stop coming back. Question, is it true that the meta takes 2h to finish? 8 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 28 minutes ago, venator.8326 said: Question, is it true that the meta takes 2h to finish? Yes and no, The Meta itself has a maximum time of 1h (and you finish faster the better your group is) You do want to do some of the prevents for a buff and you want a map which is maxed in participation. This can take a long time and make the total time on the map 2h 6 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 54 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said: Yup, we gave them many, many ideas and suggestions that would fix it for literally everyone and make the fight better for everyone, and they ignored everyone and just did what they wanted to do anyway while acting smug about it as they kept doing damage control for months and changing it in nearly every single update since launch. Just one big change to it already. Its not fun. Its not well designed. Its a long time costing slog for no rewards that has a high chance to fail. This is just a lie though. They did implement changes people wanted (changing time in the green circle mechanic, reducing RNG) 6 3 1 9 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotTooFoolish.7412 Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 9 hours ago, DirtyDan.4759 said: If a squad of 43 untameds can beat it then anyone can. I was in a meme untamed run with my guild. It went surprisingly ok (seen normal runs with less time left). The thing is, it's an organised group dealing well with whatever attack/movement Soo-Won throws our way. What is the pug experience with this meta? What have ppl noticed as a reason behind fail (RNG doesn't count)? - Is it squad randomly splitting whenever comm calls tail/no tail? - Is it ppl not moving with Soo-Won when she's sliding to the other side? - Do ppl randomly kill one of the split bosses so they respawn couple of times? If at least one of the above is 'Yes': - Is comm doing any kind of calls in chat? - What's the squad's reaction? People paint this meta as a big problem. As an occasional comm, I really don't understand this. Help us, help you instead of nerfing the event into the ground. 3 2 1 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 1 hour ago, yann.1946 said: Yes and no, The Meta itself has a maximum time of 1h (and you finish faster the better your group is) You do want to do some of the prevents for a buff and you want a map which is maxed in participation. This can take a long time and make the total time on the map 2h Of course, the groups that do not take that preparation time are far more likely to fail (no, not due to lack of buffs, but because those later groups are on average far less prepared overall). 6 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erise.5614 Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 (edited) 4 hours ago, NotTooFoolish.7412 said: I was in a meme untamed run with my guild. It went surprisingly ok (seen normal runs with less time left). The thing is, it's an organised group dealing well with whatever attack/movement Soo-Won throws our way. What is the pug experience with this meta? What have ppl noticed as a reason behind fail (RNG doesn't count)? - Is it squad randomly splitting whenever comm calls tail/no tail? - Is it ppl not moving with Soo-Won when she's sliding to the other side? - Do ppl randomly kill one of the split bosses so they respawn couple of times? If at least one of the above is 'Yes': - Is comm doing any kind of calls in chat? - What's the squad's reaction? People paint this meta as a big problem. As an occasional comm, I really don't understand this. Help us, help you instead of nerfing the event into the ground. I've been running the event very regularly the past two weeks. Deliberately joining all kinds of groups, recording it and extracting all relevant stats. Importantly, not relying on DPS meters but rather looking at the duration of phases. Doing that, I've seen two things very consistently. Durations during mechanics don't change much. The variance is less than 30 seconds between successful ones VS unsuccessful ones. Even including mini bosses that time only increases to about 40 seconds. Even tails have less variance than I expected. About 10 - 20 seconds. And the lower the average DPS during the first phase, the higher the calculated average DPS has to be. In other words. Doing twice the DPS doesn't mean you finish DPS phases in half the time. It means you finish DPS phases in one third to one fourth of the time. The single biggest factor of time is whether or how often you need to react to tail. The second biggest factor is how many bites you get. These two mechanics don't appear to be random but rather in place to keep the burn duration you get on Soo Won consistent. During very fast runs with 6+ minutes left over I've recorded ~5 minutes DPS time on Soo Won. In very slow runs with seconds left or failing I've recorded ~6-6:30 minutes DPS time on Soo Won. In combination with the 20% DPS boost you get for 10 stacks this means the necessary performance window is very narrow. When you got the DPS it takes you end with several minutes left over. Or you likely fail. Very few of my runs succeeded in the 0:00 - 1:00 range. In other words. It snowballs heavily depending on average squad DPS. Edited May 30, 2022 by Erise.5614 13 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crono.4197 Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 I did the meta when the expansion came out, failed like 15 times and only 1 success. Really big time waster and Arena Net doesn't seem to wanna change anything, so I've just been avoiding that map ever since. I'd rather do other metas which won't waste my time and where people don't ask for ridiculous requirements in order to join. 13 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gehenna.3625 Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 I stopped doing the meta and going to the Dragon's End zone entirely after I made it a couple of times and did map completion, masteries and the main achievements on that map. I also don't give a flying hoot about the gen3 legendary weapons. I don't care for the skins and for the legendary armory there are cheaper alternatives (gen1 especially). So that combination makes it so I don't even need to go back and do the meta, nor do I need to go there for any other reason. That goes for Kaineng as well and the other two maps I go back to because I like them, but only sporadically. I think the problem is that if you don't craft the gen3 legendary weapons, there's not much of a reason to go back there. You might do the meta for the ascended recipes but that's also finite. The difference with HoT maps and PoF/EoD maps is that I still have reasons to go back to HoT maps. That's just me but I really don't go back to PoF much either and from EoD I already got what I want from those maps already. 13 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted May 30, 2022 Share Posted May 30, 2022 15+ or so runs. 3 fails. If you are looking at 80% personal failure rate at this point in time, it's your personal inability to join a proper map or make use of the LFG. That said, yes the failure rate of random maps with a random mix of players on map will be far higher. That is to be expected the lack of control over how prepared the available players are. Does everyone have appropriate food? Have they stacked up buffs? Are waystations present for cc? Are boons even remotely covered? Do players know the fight or are explanations necessary? This map meta is similar to tripple trouble in that it requires a minimal amount of organization. Going in hoping for the best is not going to work (even if the success rate is higher than TT) or will work rarely. Instead if complaining, improve your own approach to making use of the LFG. 7 2 1 18 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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