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Im pretty sick of failing Dragons End meta


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I stopped even bothering to try the meta. It's a waste of time. I get far more rewarding time in HoT. There is just nothing fun about this. If they hadn't let you buy the turtle egg I would probably be still trying. But really zero incentive to go back. It makes me sad because the game has so many great meta events and this just falls flat in every single way.

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I am sure there has been a number of treads for both nerfing and not nerfiing the Dragon's End meta, and I bet they all have great points.  I just want to say I am pretty sick of failing it.   The oth

Well, since devs ignored most of the really good criticism, don't expect it to change.

If a squad of 43 untameds can beat it then anyone can.

7 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

 

It's really interesting how you do not quite understand every comment I'm writing, go by extremely negative assumptions and then argue against those.

I'm not talking about Dragon's End here. They don't spend 6 hours in Dragon's End every weekend. They cycle through just about every meta event in the game. 

And they only run on weekends because that is their regularly scheduled journey around the world's meta events. People jump in from LFG, stay for one event, for an hour, for a few hours, join the guild or what not. The point was that it's a voluntary opt in way of being offered help and knowledge. Run by people who's primary goal is for everyone to have a good time. Truly fantastic stuff! 

My post in this comment chain you've initially quoted (~3 posts earlier) talks specifically about DE and responded to Luci's post talking specifically about DE. So you've quoted me, apparently started talking about something else and now you're "super interested how it's possible I don't understand your comments". If you quote a comment chain talking specifically about DE and then revert into talking about... not DE, then it seems it's not me, but you who simply threw the context out of the window.

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22 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

"Side mechanic"? What does it even supposed to mean? It's a regular game mechanic for longer than it wasn't.

Here I was specifically talking about Soo Won. And within this encounter, CC is not an important mechanic. I don't recall a run where completing it was a matter of winning or loosing. I do recall several runs where we didn't complete a single one because they spawned too close to the end of a burn phase. So it's a mechanic that exists at all. But it's not central to success. 

22 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:
Quote

And combo fields aren't just unnecessary, they are impractical as you do not have control over the type of field you're standing in. Since everyone is so grouped up.

I don't understand what you're responding right now. Be sure to explain how you went from my post (or even the previous ones in this comment chain) to this response, because I'm lost here.

With pleasure! You were talking about the training grounds explaining the skills necessary to beat Soo Won. The training grounds explain CC and combo fields. 

CC is one of the least important mechanic of the fight and combo fields aren't just unnecessary but aiming for specific effects is entirely impractical because of all the AOE spam around Soo Won. 

22 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

I've played enough (AB) in the past and a few times recently -which is also why I wrote in my post that waiting for other people is less of a fact now, considering the dps, didn't I? 🤨  And that dps is still part of "pulling their own weight", especially considering the context of these responses -context you apparently want to carefully walk around in your posts 😄

I mean. It still needs 2 DPS phases per lane and 1 DPS phase on south like it did since the nerfs (2016?).  DPS is really not as big as a factor as you make it out to be. Much less individual DPS.

More people adjust earlier and more consistently. So they spread out better or help once they are finished instead of idling. Implicitly waiting to kill in sync without having to chat. 

In other words, people understand the mechanics well and react faster on their own is what changed. Not DPS.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I would be very interested in the completion percentages for this fight. It's rare to even see it in LFG even during primetime any more.

 

And it is easy to see why - a 1.5 to 2 hour time commitment with a high chance of failure due to factors out of the player's control.  Im all for complex fights in open world, but they need to be at realistic intervals/length and they cannot rely on dps races/timers to create an artificial sense of difficulty.

Edited by Blaeys.3102
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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

My post in this comment chain you've initially quoted (~3 posts earlier) talks specifically about DE and responded to Luci's post talking specifically about DE. So you've quoted me, apparently started talking about something else and now you're "super interested how it's possible I don't understand your comments". If you quote a comment chain talking specifically about DE and then revert into talking about... not DE, then it seems it's not me, but you who simply threw the context out of the window.

Ah. Fair. In my bubble event chains means different events. But I can see how that could be misunderstood. And yes. The comment was indeed about DE. Which is why I contrasted my two positive examples (meta chains & raid training communities) by contrasting those with Dragon's End as the negative counter example where player education is working, in my humble opinion, very poorly. 

Though even considering that I still don't quite understand how that lead you to this understanding.

Quote

Your whole comment just blows up on the notion where you try to pretend these squads are somehow limited to "those special weekend times" in the sole attempt to claim "not everyone can".

 

Edited by Erise.5614
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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Luci.7018 said:

They whine about the time to kill the boss run out .

Not with the difficulty , or complexity , or survibility

Mechanics don’t have to be difficult or raid level in order for players to fail them or perform them poorly. A lot of the time players don’t even know what’s going on because they just tunnel. 

Edited by mythical.6315
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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, Veprovina.4876 said:

Well, since devs ignored most of the really good criticism, don't expect it to change.

This. ^

Those who got it done by luck and RNG at rush during release you are quite lucky. Enjoy your mastery points and achievs.

Edited by Mickey.4207
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10 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

Mechanics don’t have to be difficult or raid level in order for players to fail them or perform them poorly. 

We should focus on teaching them those mechanics and get better/survive .

Not to do 6k to progress , for some silly timer

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Luci.7018 said:

We should focus on teaching them those mechanics and get better/survive .

Not to do 6k to progress , for some silly timer

A lot of players try to do that but people simply don’t listen or care enough. 

Edited by mythical.6315
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39 minutes ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

I agree with forum frogs on this one. General GW2 population is not capable of consistently clearing DE meta. Some even after playing this game for a decade are unable to pull their own weight. Let's just accept it and nerf it even more. Make open world content relaxed so anyone in any build can do it. There is literally zero reasons to educate people how to properly play their characters so far into game's lifespan. Everybody outside GW2's bubble already sees it as a game for casuals anyway. 

I'm not against GW2 being on the casual side. That's perfectly fine with me. I am however against GW2 being a Mario game where jumping is entirely optional.

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20 minutes ago, Blaeys.3102 said:

I would be very interested in the completion percentages for this fight. It's rare to even see it in LFG even during primetime any more.

 

And it is easy to see why - a 1.5 to 2 hour time commitment with a high chance of failure due to factors out of the player's control.  Im all for complex fights in open world, but they need to be at realistic intervals/length and they cannot rely on dps races/timers to create an artificial sense of difficulty.

Last week i only saw one group in LFG and it was asking for raid only players so casuals had no chance. I am on EU servers. It's dead. I go there daily to farm jades. I hear all kind of excuses when some new players asks why it's dead. "Oh it's Sunday evening, oh it's Saturday everyone out enjoying,  oh it's just Monday so people must be tired from work, it's too early, it's too late and yada yada. Funny how this never effects HOT maps and other three maps in EOD which are done daily regardless of time or day of the week. 

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5 minutes ago, mythical.6315 said:

A lot of players try to do that but people simply don’t listen or care enough. 

No no no. If you try to teach and explain mechanics, people will insult you for being a toxic elitist. Just look at all the hate Teapot got and is still getting.

2 minutes ago, Mickey.4207 said:

I am on EU servers. It's dead.

Funny how I can clear DE every single day just by using the LFG. Exaggerations much?

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Posted (edited)
3 minutes ago, Raizel.8175 said:

No no no. If you try to teach and explain mechanics, people will insult you for being a toxic elitist. Just look at all the hate Teapot got and is still getting.

Funny how I can clear DE every single day just by using the LFG. Exaggerations much?

Every single day on EU servers? Please feel free to send me a friend request and invite me when this magical group  clears DE every single day. I would like to join because i cant find it. I will wait for you in game 

Edited by Mickey.4207
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2 minutes ago, Raizel.8175 said:

I'm not against GW2 being on the casual side. That's perfectly fine with me. I am however against GW2 being a Mario game where jumping is entirely optional.

We don't need to nerf DE meta to the ground. Just make it more relaxed. Possibly much more relaxed. HoT metas are still highly popular because they are convenient and rewarding. Just cut out some content like spitting to champions the 2nd time which will already give tons of time to succeed. It's just too long and too underewarding. 

It is already too late to teach your community to become "better" at their game. All those DE threads prove it. 

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2 hours ago, Mara.6782 said:

Why Guild wars 2 has anything else than berserk or viper gear? It's always dps. Do max damage or you fail. Remove timer and problem is solved. This is openworld event not raid. Bosses can be challenging without timer. This game has really bad issue with dps is everything mentality. Make other stats useful to use or remove them.

because without people running support builds providing boons nobody will be able to reach their maximum damage potential

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Luci.7018 said:

We should focus on teaching them those mechanics and get better/survive .

Not to do 6k to progress , for some silly timer

Been there, done that. Quite a few had offered advice and suggestions on how to obtain very high win-rates percentages on many of the threads.

And have the usual small group of forumers complaining about how bad DE meta is. And how elitist it is. And we shouldn't expect players to learn simple mechanics because it's too raid-like. And OW metas should all be a last minute walk-on, ignore all requirements and mechanics, semi-afk, and end up with  guarantee win.

I've no idea what the minimum average DPS should be but just with basic dps exotic gears, the contributors and protocols, you'll more than likely surpass that very easily. Unless you are constantly being downed by the AoEs which you either ignored and/or have no clue what they are. And spend very little time actually attacking.

Just to emphasize, you can get all these during the meta with a little preparations :

Dragon's End Contributor:

  • Gain 10 seconds of might fury, swiftness, regeneration, and protection when entering and exiting combat.
  • 20% increase to health and outgoing damage.
  • 10% increase to kill experience.

Jade Tech Offensive Overcharge:

  •  Swiftness (30s): +33% Movement Speed
  •  Might (5 stacks )(30s): 150 Condition Damage, 150 Power
  •  Quickness (10s): Skills and actions are faster.
  •  Fury (10s): +20% Critical Chance
  •  Alacrity (10s): +25% Skill Recharge Rate
  •  Power: +150
  •  Condition damage: +150

Jade Tech Defensive Overcharge

  • Swiftness (30s): +33% Movement Speed  
  • Regen (30s): 3,900 Heal  
  • Aegis (10s): Block the next incoming attack.  
  • Protection (10s): -33% Incoming Damage  
  • Vigor (10s): +50% Endurance Regeneration  
  • Toughness: +200  
  • Vitality: +200

 

Edited by Silent.6137
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16 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said:

Yup, we gave them many, many ideas and suggestions that would fix it for literally everyone and make the fight better for everyone, and they ignored everyone and just did what they wanted to do anyway while acting smug about it as they kept doing damage control for months and changing it in nearly every single update since launch. 

 

Just one big change to it already. Its not fun. Its not well designed. Its a long time costing slog for no rewards that has a high chance to fail. 

Yeah, that would require a bit less ego on display on the devs part.

Right now, it seems like tons of people told them, what you did is not fun, we are not having fun, and what's worse, it's becoming a toxic environment.

 

And i can imagine everyone in the Anet office circling the team that made this meta saying: "you're AMAZING, you did an AMAZING job, don't listen to the losers, they don't know you, you're AMAZING" in a big circlekitten (yes i typed kitten) completely ignoring that - people are not having fun.

 

Like, yes i know it's hard when everyone says what you made is crap, but you suck it up and fix it cause it's not there for "you" who made it, it's there for "us" who consume it. And it's leaving a bad taste in our mouths.

 

It's too long, too RNG focused, too obtuse and all around badly designed.

But no, the devs are AMAZING, we just hate them cause they're so AMAZING or whatever.

 

So no, it's not gonna change.

 

You know why?

 

Cause because of all the valid and very constructive criticism that would literally solve everyone's problem - they put an infusion in the game. That's when i stopped caring about EoD cause it'll never be fixed, any of it, not just "the meta".

 

  

3 hours ago, Mickey.4207 said:

This. ^

Those who got it done by luck and RNG at rush during release you are quite lucky. Enjoy your mastery points and achievs.

I did it once by pure chance, i'm not wasting another 3 hours on this meta again just to get 1 A.S.S. OR an amalgamated gemstone, like, wtf Anet?

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5 hours ago, ChronoPinoyX.7923 said:

People really need to stop with this mindset... Open World is NOT meant to be hardcore content, it never was

Open World is literally casual content, that's why it's OPEN WORLD, it ain't supposed to be Raids/Strikes/Fractals... 

Exactly. Open world content has been "easy" up to this point. Why would a player assume that other content would be much harder?

 

The players aren't the problem, the game is the problem. 

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DE is hardly the first open world content with frequent failure.

The original Marionette event for its entire limited duration run was a festival of failures. That was back in season 1.

There was Tequatl Rising and Triple Trouble.

For a while Vinewratch was a bit sketchy until it got powercreept I guess.

VB used to fail often enough that t4 was not a given, these days people simply don't bother.

The rest of the HoT metas had their issues as well.

Even Pinata was a 50/50 at one point.

Did you forget about Serpent's Ire? It's okay everyone else did as well!

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2 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

DE is hardly the first open world content with frequent failure.

You're right, which is what makes it an even bigger headscratcher that they chose to do something like that yet again. Highly-organized metas with a steep time investment and high risk of failure have historically been unpopular and are now only done on sparse schedules by a handful of dedicated groups. Further, once people do these metas a few times for achievements, they migrate to other areas of the game and never look back.

You wouldn't think they'd want that fate for their grand 10-year finale, but here we are.

6 minutes ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

Did you forget about Serpent's Ire? It's okay everyone else did as well!

Which is the point. Unpopular content fades into obscurity and that is bad. This may be fine for the people who bum rush it when it's fresh, but is a massive pain point for those who come later when no one is bothering anymore. ArenaNet should look at their unpopular metas, determine what's behind the lack of interest, and repair them accordingly. This goes double for expansion metas, as I can only imagine that 'This expansion has fun/lucrative/repeatable meta events' is a fantastic selling point.

When you talk about events like Tequatl, it's also important to note that the more popular of these fights were tweaked significantly after release and that their increased popularity wasn't simply a product of the players 'getting good'. ArenaNet looked at the fight, made changes to improve the event, and now people run Teq every day because it's a reasonable time investment with worthy loot and a healthy rate of success.

Sometimes you need to put the pie back in the oven for a few more minutes to make sure it's cooked properly instead of settling for raw dough simply because its technically edible.

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8 hours ago, Luci.7018 said:

We should focus on teaching them those mechanics and get better/survive .

Not to do 6k to progress , for some silly timer

Not in this fight. This fight teaches people that dps is the primary mechanic that counts,

My observations are quite similar to @Erise.5614's. For the most part, people do the mechanic parts (like splits or orbs) without significant difference between good or bad squads. Overall you can gain (or lose) here maybe a minute at most when taken together. Most succesful squads succeed by way more than that, and most fail squads also fail by more than that.

The real difference is twofold: primarily the dps during burn phases, and secondary the performance during the last 20%. That last burn is the worst, due to the massive mechanic spam that happens. It's absolutely critical to burn the boss as fast as possible there, or the phase will stretch out longer and longer, with your dps getting lower and lower with each seconds (or shoudl i say minutes?). Notice, btw, how the second factor is heavily influenced by the first.

Hint: even the best, "always succesful" groups have people failimg the mechanics during that last 20%. They just finish it much faster due to higher dps, so they don't have to face as many of those mechanics as the "fail" groups.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Mickey.4207 said:

Every single day on EU servers? Please feel free to send me a friend request and invite me when this magical group  clears DE every single day. I would like to join because i cant find it. I will wait for you in game 

I play on EU servers and I am in a guild that does the meta every evening. Usually half the squad is from the guild and the other half from LFG. So far all our runs have been successful. There are several other dedicated commanders that run the meta regularly on EU. 

Edited by yoni.7015
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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Silent.6137 said:

Been there, done that. Quite a few had offered advice and suggestions on how to obtain very high win-rates percentages on many of the threads.

And have the usual small group of forumers complaining about how bad DE meta is. And how elitist it is. And we shouldn't expect players to learn simple mechanics because it's too raid-like. And OW metas should all be a last minute walk-on, ignore all requirements and mechanics, semi-afk, and end up with  guarantee win.

I've no idea what the minimum average DPS should be but just with basic dps exotic gears, the contributors and protocols, you'll more than likely surpass that very easily. Unless you are constantly being downed by the AoEs which you either ignored and/or have no clue what they are. And spend very little time actually attacking.

Just to emphasize, you can get all these during the meta with a little preparations :

Dragon's End Contributor:

  • Gain 10 seconds of might fury, swiftness, regeneration, and protection when entering and exiting combat.
  • 20% increase to health and outgoing damage.
  • 10% increase to kill experience.

Jade Tech Offensive Overcharge:

  •  Swiftness (30s): +33% Movement Speed
  •  Might (5 stacks )(30s): 150 Condition Damage, 150 Power
  •  Quickness (10s): Skills and actions are faster.
  •  Fury (10s): +20% Critical Chance
  •  Alacrity (10s): +25% Skill Recharge Rate
  •  Power: +150
  •  Condition damage: +150

Jade Tech Defensive Overcharge

  • Swiftness (30s): +33% Movement Speed  
  • Regen (30s): 3,900 Heal  
  • Aegis (10s): Block the next incoming attack.  
  • Protection (10s): -33% Incoming Damage  
  • Vigor (10s): +50% Endurance Regeneration  
  • Toughness: +200  
  • Vitality: +200

Of the overcharges. Only Power, Condition Damage, Toughnes and Vitality are permanent. The other boons are only applied when entering combat. So about 6 times throughout the event. When you take greens, when you leave the main platform for minibosses and when you come back from minibosses.

And I would like to point out another interesting fact. The single biggest difference in that list (compared to regular play) is the 20% increased outgoing damage. Which is exponentially rewarding. A high performance player gets the DPS of about 2% necessary map DPS for free from that buff. While an inexperienced player doesn't get enough of a DPS boost to be worth one players average necessary map DPS.

Calculating from HP values and attack duration, I have yet to see a group that beat Soo Won with less than 10k average map DPS during the first phase. Reaching that target requires about 7.5k-8k DPS before any of the map buffs. 

Not even accounting for supports (which decrease average map DPS) or downing, knock downs and other challenges. 

It is very easy if you understand the combat system, copy paste a build and train your rotation on the raid training. You can lead a map to success if you can get even just 5 - 10 experienced, high performing players just because of how much they raise the average map DPS thanks to the contributor buff. Which is why guilds and communities have such consistent clear rates. But that kind of carrying is actually necessary for the average player. Because it's significantly above the performance the majority of players provide. 

Clearing 8k DPS is not trivial.

Edited by Erise.5614
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