IAmNotMatthew.1058 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 4 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said: Right, and those meta's are successful then (in the sense that lots of people play them)? Based on the amount of complaints about DE, yeah, DE is "successful", the rest, not so much, something that has been discussed quite a few times already. 2 1 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorem.8104 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 (edited) 17 minutes ago, danielrjones.8759 said: I'm one of those people mentioned a couple times in this thread that runs this meta several times a week. I'm in a group of 20 that run it regularly. The other 30 we get are pugs. We've succeeded the last 79 times consecutively. No one in the group act or talks like an elitist. People joke around and have fun as a community up to the boss fight. Then the commander makes the calls. I'm just slightly above average player. Our worse time was 2.5 min to spare and best time was 7.5 min to spare. I think the meta is fine the way it is. They've watered this event down enough already. I enjoy the run not because of the difficulty and it really isn't as difficult as some complain. Yes there was a time it was much harder. But I enjoy the run simply for meeting new people and having fun as a community. So, you are saying its fine, after saying you are in a group of 20?!? People who run it regularly? You understand that you are not, in fact, one of those people mentioned in this thread, you are the opposite of a casual. You are treating the game like work, a hobby, not an entertainment medium. You are carrying others, you are setting yourself up. Then you are saying its fine once you have everything stacked in your favour. You are also ignoring everyone and what we have talked about since EoD launch and just focusing on yourself. No one is complaining about the fight mechanics. Every FAILED run I have seen we have 100% completed all of the fights mechanics. The only thing that is a requirement is if you have enough people doing enough dps. That is it. By stacking a 20man group you are treating it as raid content, not OW content. This OW content is not what GW2 is all about. It needs a large rework, or it will die just like the other events that require organised groups to beat. Edited May 31, 2022 by Gorem.8104 12 1 1 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eloc Freidon.5692 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 (edited) I keep track of my successes in my signature. 3/102 as of this post. It is still failing too much to not care to attempt anymore. I prefer to just use the drops from jp chest parking to get my AS S. Edited May 31, 2022 by Eloc Freidon.5692 6 1 3 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luci.7018 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said: Avoiding mechanics on the DE meta isn't really comparable to anything in Wing 5 you know. There is a public version though, you can check when it starts on the Event Timers part of the Wiki. The difference between DE and Twisted Marionette is that DE is always public, while Marionette, just like Dragonstorm has a Public and Private version. Rather than forcing them to do 6k dps , we must force to do survival mechanics . Like for example implanting the Bull charge for Wing 5 and make him to 1-hit-KO , or the knockback -reclamied soul Why raiders are so fixated with numbers their characters is producing and not the actual mechanics must be done to survive and make the combat fun ? The company re-created the Marionette event They put under a 2 weeks open-trials . Public version was more succeful , because you have +20 more people . When they collected their data ,. they said that Marionette event won't be launched with Public version for a while . They had to create groups with the current LFG manually. Most people begged them to re-thing that , while the raider where saying that this is a good move and will foster a community . People gave up from waiting , and the pros didn't make enough money (there wasn't anything to be sold with Sell-Gold Runs) Edited May 31, 2022 by Luci.7018 7 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 10 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said: You are carrying others, you are setting yourself up. Then you are saying its fine once you have everything stacked in your favour. You are also ignoring everyone and what we have talked about since EoD launch and just focusing on yourself. Yea but they got what they wanted.... and probably spent less time overall to do that, considering they didn't need 79 successes. But the most important thing is with all those extra successes, they helped get other people get through. "Focusing on yourself?" I think not. 1 3 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erise.5614 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 (edited) 36 minutes ago, danielrjones.8759 said: I'm one of those people mentioned a couple times in this thread that runs this meta several times a week. I'm in a group of 20 that run it regularly. The other 30 we get are pugs. We've succeeded the last 79 times consecutively. No one in the group act or talks like an elitist. People joke around and have fun as a community up to the boss fight. Then the commander makes the calls. I'm just slightly above average player. Our worse time was 2.5 min to spare and best time was 7.5 min to spare. I think the meta is fine the way it is. They've watered this event down enough already. I enjoy the run not because of the difficulty and it really isn't as difficult as some complain. Yes there was a time it was much harder. But I enjoy the run simply for meeting new people and having fun as a community. Out of genuine curiosity. How is it "watered down enough already" and "not enjoyable because of difficulty but because of meeting new people"? Would the encounter be unenjoyable if the timer was doubled? What if 2 minutes were added? What if 2 minutes were removed? Would each of those increase your enjoyment? Decrease it? Or not impact it? I honestly don't quite understand what exactly it is you enjoy about it. Not as in, "I can not understand how anyone could enjoy it". But as in, I'm getting mixed messages here and would like to understand that point of view! 19 minutes ago, Gorem.8104 said: So, you are saying its fine, after saying you are in a group of 20?!? People who run it regularly? You understand that you are not, in fact, one of those people mentioned in this thread, you are the opposite of a casual. You are treating the game like work, a hobby, not an entertainment medium. You are carrying others, you are setting yourself up. Then you are saying its fine once you have everything stacked in your favour. You are also ignoring everyone and what we have talked about since EoD launch and just focusing on yourself. No one is complaining about the fight mechanics. Every FAILED run I have seen we have 100% completed all of the fights mechanics. The only thing that is a requirement is if you have enough people doing enough dps. That is it. By stacking a 20man group you are treating it as raid content, not OW content. This OW content is not what GW2 is all about. It needs a large rework, or it will die just like the other events that require organised groups to beat. Could you please stop with these strawman. You exaggerate your own points extremely to the point where your statements are just inaccurate. And then interpret extremely negative statements into the points of others. They may not intend to be so extremely negative and confrontational as you assume. Edited May 31, 2022 by Erise.5614 5 1 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNotMatthew.1058 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 6 minutes ago, Luci.7018 said: Rather than forcing them to do 6k dps , we must force to do survival mechanics . If you ignore mechanics you get pinballed around and quite possibly die, so, you have to do mechanics to survive. 7 minutes ago, Luci.7018 said: Like for example implanting the Bull charge for Wing 5 and make him to 1-hit-KO . The what? 8 minutes ago, Luci.7018 said: Why raiders are so fixated with numbers their characters is producing and not the actual mechanics must be done to survive and make the combat fun ? People have been going on about how doing the mechanics is important, but that doesn't matter I guess. 9 minutes ago, Luci.7018 said: The company re-created the Marionette event They put under a 2 weeks open-trials . Public version was more succeful , because you have +20 more people . When they collected their data ,. they said that Marionette event won't be launched with Public version for a while . Most people begged them to re-thing that , while the raider where saying that this is a good move and will foster a community . People gave up from waiting , and the pros didn't make enough money (there wasn't anything to be sold with Sell-Gold Runs) That still doesn't change the fact that Marionette has public mode, if people begged for it so much why isn't anyone doing it? Why blame the "pros", when they weren't interested in it in the first place? Besides, if anyone would be selling runs it would be done in Private instances, not in Public. 2 5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luci.7018 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said: If you ignore mechanics you get pinballed around and quite possibly die, so, you have to do mechanics to survive. The what? Yes that's the spirit . We want People to do learn to dodge /survive . Forcing them to increase their dps to some arbitrary number is pretty worthless The goal is to make them die .... not an anti-climatic scenario of "oh you need more dps" to progress Quote People have been going on about how doing the mechanics is important, but that doesn't matter I guess. Yesssssss mechanics is important . Failing to meet some timer , because you didn't do enough dps is the silliest thing. The goal should be to make the content hard and THEY MUST SURVIVE Quote That still doesn't change the fact that Marionette has public mode, if people begged for it so much why isn't anyone doing it? Strength in numbers . If the majority have moved on and the KP groups are behaving like KP groups , it's better to go in content where are same-minded people . Quote Why blame the "pros", when they weren't interested in it in the first place? Besides, if anyone would be selling runs it would be done in Private instances, not in Public. If you are not interesting or won't be in the future , or you won't make enough money , stop trying to make the casual a Raid person to save your mode . Edit: Just introduce an auto -LFG , like in the open world , to counter the "Strength in numbers ." problem... It will be much more faster to increase the "instance population" Edited May 31, 2022 by Luci.7018 5 1 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilty.4906 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 I haven't had problems with this meta for quite some time, and compared to what it used to be, it's pretty well balanced now. I would say to look for organized groups 30 minutes before the meta begins so you can farm buffs. And remember, even though this meta is in a better spot now, you might encounter groups that won't be able to do it. But I would say that's what it's interesting about this meta for me, it is a fight that has a risk, and I feel rewarded when I get to get it done.😊 2 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 3 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said: I remember people going on about how the original Marionette was even harder than what they brought back. 😄 Fun fact: it wasn't. The difficulty of Marionette event is, and always was, inversely proportional to the number of players you can have. That's why the public instance (80 players) is way easier than the private one (50 players). In the original Marionette the "gold standard" was to have 25 players per lane (so, 125 players). More was unnecessary, since you could only have 5 players per platform anyway. Having 5 players per platform made it so it was much harder for a single player to fail a platform. It was still possible on 2 platforms if wrong player got aggroed on, but with 4 other players present it was much easier to salvage. The lower player cap was the only change that happened to the newer version. Apart from that, there was no other changes that would affect the difficulty at all. Also, next to noone was actually making that claim. Those i could see were saying something exact opposite (and actually true), about what i already said above - how the whole fight did not get adjusted well for the decreased player cap, and how that made the fight so much harder. 9 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gehenna.3625 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 1 hour ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said: Based on the amount of complaints about DE, yeah, DE is "successful", the rest, not so much, something that has been discussed quite a few times already. Which is what I was getting at. I suspect that this meta will die down as well. So whatever the target audience is...that audience isn't big enough or doesn't enjoy this type of content. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNotMatthew.1058 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 48 minutes ago, Luci.7018 said: Yes that's the spirit . We want People to do learn to dodge /survive . Forcing them to increase their dps to some arbitrary number is pretty worthless The goal is to make them die .... not an anti-climatic scenario of "oh you need more dps" to progress Seems like you ignored the majority of the discussion about mechanics and damage on DE. Having high damage, but constantly failing mechanics doesn't lead to success. Doing mechanics properly, but not doing damage doesn't lead to success. If you do the mechanics they allow you to deal damage, because you are not laying on the ground clutching papercuts bleeding out. Do or die mechanics aren't better than the need for ""high"" DPS. 50 minutes ago, Luci.7018 said: Yesssssss mechanics is important . Failing to meet some timer , because you didn't do enough dps is the silliest thing. The goal should be to make the content hard and THEY MUST SURVIVE Tarir, Gerent, Choya, just to name a few can all fail if your damage is not enough, they also fail if you don't do the meta in a certain amount of time. Making a meta force you to fight to survive is not only a terrible idea, but incredibly boring. 52 minutes ago, Luci.7018 said: Strength in numbers . If the majority have moved on and the KP groups are behaving like KP groups , it's better to go in content where are same-minded people . I haven't seen any KP groups for DE since the first week of the meta. 53 minutes ago, Luci.7018 said: If you are not interesting or won't be in the future , or you won't make enough money , stop trying to make the casual a Raid person to save your mode Noone's trying to make the casual a Raider. 2 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said: Which is what I was getting at. I suspect that this meta will die down as well. So whatever the target audience is...that audience isn't big enough or doesn't enjoy this type of content. I have a comment in one of the earliest DE meta threads where I said the meta needs to be nerfed to borderline unfailable content to make people do it. 4 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 15 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said: Tarir, Gerent, Choya, just to name a few can all fail if your damage is not enough, they also fail if you don't do the meta in a certain amount of time. At the end of the day, most bosses can't be defeated without depleting their health bar, so ignoring DPS is not a good move. Higher dps also allows you to deal with less mechanics. Dead DPS = 0 DPS, we know. But 0 DPS also equals 0 DPS. This really depends on how much dps is acutally needed. I assume it's not like snowcrows benchmarks or close, is it? And would the fight be less fun if there wasn't that strict of a timer. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Red Killian.3946 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 To be fair, any big metas you do have a good chance to fail, if not run by a competant commander. Dragon Stand, Chak Gerant, Triple Trouble, and Octovine, to name a few, can and do fail if you don’t have a commander that knows what he is doing. Look for a commander mainly who is going to separate out in groups due to composition. If you have an organized group like this and a commander who does this hefty work and tells which parties go to which bosses and when, making sure everyone cc the boss when needs to, I have been in a few good groups like this lately that beat with 5 min left. Try to get into lfg taxies where the maps fill up. If you don’t have a commander running the show an hour in, it probably isn’t going to win. 1 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesione.9412 Posted May 31, 2022 Share Posted May 31, 2022 7 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said: I'd disagree on the last part, I think the entire DE controversy has lead to an increase in the overall understanding many players have of basic game mechanics. Still I do agree that maybe there are by now enough steps implemented in the game in form of different challenging content that open world and story can be left to their own devices. What would be good now is some sort of scaling, reorganizing or explaining of how difficult each type of content is, bceause THAT alone is currently. I disagree. I think the entire DE controversy has led to more players giving up on the meta compared to the number of players who have of basic game mechanics. In addition, the fight is not simply basic game mechanics. Tequatl is basic game mechanics. DE is a morass of NPCs, AoEs from players, AoEs from NPCs, etc. If a player is trying to do a dps rotation, how much attention are they playing to those factors? If the player is paying attention to the mobs, bites, etc, how much attention are they paying to dps? The fight requires simultaneous focus on numerous things, unlike most other open world fights. 12 2 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesione.9412 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 3 hours ago, danielrjones.8759 said: I'm one of those people mentioned a couple times in this thread that runs this meta several times a week. I'm in a group of 20 that run it regularly. The other 30 we get are pugs. We've succeeded the last 79 times consecutively. No one in the group act or talks like an elitist. People joke around and have fun as a community up to the boss fight. Then the commander makes the calls. I'm just slightly above average player. Our worse time was 2.5 min to spare and best time was 7.5 min to spare. I think the meta is fine the way it is. They've watered this event down enough already. I enjoy the run not because of the difficulty and it really isn't as difficult as some complain. Yes there was a time it was much harder. But I enjoy the run simply for meeting new people and having fun as a community. You straight away have 20 organised people who know what they are doing. This isn't comparable to having a group of 50 random players join together on a map. 11 2 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuna Bandit.3786 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 This Meta is designed on purpose to be abandoned. It has to be, check LFG, Dragon's End LFG is a freakin ghost town. It is a drag of a fight. Example: it relies on use of waystations. Yet every time you get the "Aurene" jump, it means your remaining EMP charges are DELETED. That alone is a bug that they refuse to fix. Let along truely balance the fight. It won't happen. 10 1 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AgentMoore.9453 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 5 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said: Marionette has public mode, if people begged for it so much why isn't anyone doing it? Because it's a virtually invisible event with lackluster rewards that was implemented in a different way from what people had been requesting. You can read a fairly concise discussion about it here. Like DE, Marionette is good example of a coordinated meta event that could stand to be tweaked to increase its popularity - difference here is that they did the right thing by having both a public and private version of it to accommodate both highly-organized and casual players, something I believe the DE meta could benefit greatly from. Also worth mentioning, Marionette is a side story meta which suffers from a visibility and long-term rewards problem, DE is the primary culmination of a 10-year storyline that every player is directed to which suffers from a balancing, time investment, and map player cap problem. So, they both have their issues, but only one of them is an expansion selling point. 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yann.1946 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 (edited) 12 hours ago, Gorem.8104 said: Hol' up. I never lie, You told an untruth then 😜 Quote they did not implement a single thing people were calling for, But they did, not all of them ofcourse. But still people asked for changes to the wisps, people asked to reduce the amount of RNG, removing the turtle from the meta etc. Quote they forced us to do wisps as people were skipping it to get more time to dps and it was trolling to do it. They increased the expose timer, so we could do more dps. Notice how all their changes are dps based? If you have the dps, you don't need to break a cc bar, you get less tails, you beat the fight. All DE meta is is a dps race. Less bites? more time to dps. You realise that these changes are equivelant with less dps needed? Quote What people were asking for: This should say, "OTHER thing people were asking for" Quote Removing the three champ phase - less dps required. Personally i havent seen that request much, but this seems like an extremely bad idea. Im glad they didnt do this one. Quote Remove the RNG and make the tail happen at certain percentages - less dps required They reduced the RNG, which is also something people asked for. Quote Increase the timer - less dps required Yes they didnt take the nuclear option, because there are people who explicitly didnt want that option to be taken. Also it is to note that in this setting "less dps required" is completely equivalent with "increase dps of the players" Quote Remove the entire pre-event and just have it be its own escort-boss fight - shave off an hour of time. They didnt remove it, but did shave the required participation down. Quote I could go on, but essentially what I saw people asking for was dps requirements to be reduced, the CC expose change is too RNG for it to be reliable enough. When I was doing it to get it done once (and never again) I so often saw the CC phase happen at the same time as tail. RNG always played a role, good rng and you beat a 20% phase 10 times faster then bad rng as you can dps the boss instead of running all over the platform. The problem here is that you viewed what was asked only trough your own desires. Saying that they didnt listen because they didnt do exactly what you wanted is extremely silly. Notice how there are a multitude of demands, some incompatible with each other, and that they did reduce the dps required. Edited June 1, 2022 by yann.1946 Changed a remove to reduce to be accurate 1 1 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuks.8241 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 Dps while avoiding dmg and doing other required stuff is a mechanic. Just avoiding dmg and doing nothing else is not proper execution of mechanics. You want mechanic heavy fight without emphasis on dmg? Add jumping puzzle, add a simple rule - you die, its over, no loot. Just adding mechanics without any fail scenario is a loot pinata. Mechanics become irrelevant. 1 2 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesione.9412 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 59 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said: Dps while avoiding dmg and doing other required stuff is a mechanic. Just avoiding dmg and doing nothing else is not proper execution of mechanics. You want mechanic heavy fight without emphasis on dmg? Add jumping puzzle, add a simple rule - you die, its over, no loot. Just adding mechanics without any fail scenario is a loot pinata. Mechanics become irrelevant. If you are attempting to reply to me, you haven't addressed what I said. 6 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 9 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said: Seems like you ignored the majority of the discussion about mechanics and damage on DE. Having high damage, but constantly failing mechanics doesn't lead to success. Doing mechanics properly, but not doing damage doesn't lead to success. If you do the mechanics they allow you to deal damage, because you are not laying on the ground clutching papercuts bleeding out. Do or die mechanics aren't better than the need for ""high"" DPS. And yet i have seen groups that pretty much failed every single breakbar and were slow in reacting to tail, and still cleared with more than 5 minutes left on the clock, and those that were doing those mechanics pretty much perfectly and ran out of time while still in double digit percentage of hps left. With the intermediate phases (like wisps and champions) taking about the same time for boh groups. It was not the "doing mechanics properly" that allowed the former to succeed, and not failing them that prevented the latter from doing the same. The only meaningful difference was the dps of the top 10-20 squad members. 9 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said: Tarir, Gerent, Choya, just to name a few can all fail if your damage is not enough, they also fail if you don't do the meta in a certain amount of time. Sure, but the required damage threshold is really easy to pass. If you fail those nowadays, it's never due to lack of damage, but only due to failing mechanics. 9 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said: I haven't seen any KP groups for DE since the first week of the meta. True. There are however many squads that pre-screen their members in other ways (like gathering through "secret means" and areas other than DE, and not putting themselves on LFG). 9 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said: Noone's trying to make the casual a Raider. You apparently missed the whole "stepstones to raids" idea DE is part of. 9 hours ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said: I have a comment in one of the earliest DE meta threads where I said the meta needs to be nerfed to borderline unfailable content to make people do it. It has to be nerfed to the point where the average ad-hoc squad has a significant chance of succeeding. Success rates of organized and hyperoptimized squads are meaningless for the majority of the OW community, after all. 13 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorem.8104 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 12 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said: Fun fact: it wasn't. The difficulty of Marionette event is, and always was, inversely proportional to the number of players you can have. That's why the public instance (80 players) is way easier than the private one (50 players). In the original Marionette the "gold standard" was to have 25 players per lane (so, 125 players). More was unnecessary, since you could only have 5 players per platform anyway. Having 5 players per platform made it so it was much harder for a single player to fail a platform. It was still possible on 2 platforms if wrong player got aggroed on, but with 4 other players present it was much easier to salvage. The lower player cap was the only change that happened to the newer version. Apart from that, there was no other changes that would affect the difficulty at all. Also, next to noone was actually making that claim. Those i could see were saying something exact opposite (and actually true), about what i already said above - how the whole fight did not get adjusted well for the decreased player cap, and how that made the fight so much harder. The first time I did Marionette was during that week return - when originally we thought it was only staying for that week and not coming back. Because of that thought I was with many people spamming it. Doing it as often as we could, we capped out all achievements in the first week it existed in the scrying pool. Only Public instances of course since you can tell its not designed for only 50 people, you essentially need 50 people who are capable of soloing any boss from any lane. At least in public we had the 30 player buffer. You could honestly feel that the fight was meant to be done with more people in mind. Hearing that you used to have 25 per lane is crazy how they didn't scale it correctly when the player count was reduced - especially the bugs we kept seeing and how it'd place people incorrectly and not full up all the platforms sometimes. But that first week would be why is so dead now, they originally said that was it, so we did everything we needed to do in one week instead of pacing it out, now its just left for the people who know about it and may want to do it, as its not on the world boss portal device for some reason. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorem.8104 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 10 hours ago, Tuna Bandit.3786 said: This Meta is designed on purpose to be abandoned. It has to be, check LFG, Dragon's End LFG is a freakin ghost town. It is a drag of a fight. Example: it relies on use of waystations. Yet every time you get the "Aurene" jump, it means your remaining EMP charges are DELETED. That alone is a bug that they refuse to fix. Let along truely balance the fight. It won't happen. Thinking about it, we probably should just all call it as Mukluk does, non-consensual raiding that most have moved on from. Get yours in, do it once, and go and enjoy the rest of the game never to return 🙂 5 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maltyrius.2961 Posted June 1, 2022 Share Posted June 1, 2022 21 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said: The great irony is that once you have the turtle, it's a total letdown... I never use 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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