Harbinger

[Poledra Val.1490]

Im not sure why some people in pvp are even kidding themselves, Harbinger has to be the most broken spec i have seen in pvp in recent memory. It needs immense tuning down in almost every way.

You almost always realize a spec is broken when the spec is carrying the player rather then the other way around in addition to how many roles it can fulfill in a pvp match.

I truly hope Anet does the right thing this month with the balance patch because pvp at the moment is in such a horrid state. Of course its not the only spec that needs tuning down but it should be number 1 on the list at the moment followed by some obvious other specs, Willbender, bunker Vindi etc

You legit see only 2-4 classes being played in ranked almost always these days and harbinger itself i guarentee you is in almost every AT and has a big headcount. Diversity at least with the classes we play is so very imporant because currently pvp has received zero content from Arenanet and im sure the entire pvp community is actually disappointed by that fact alone.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Poledra Val.1490

[Lysico.4906]

My soulbeast eats them up for breakfast.  

[Guirssane.7082]

its broken, u only need 3 specs to win atm : specter, harb and willbender + a support. Nothing else. The meta is so weird right now that its only 3  classes with insane mobility dominating. You can't side node like before because you'll get zerged in 3s.

Team of roamer winning all games, what a meta 😉

[Crab Fear.8623]

23 minutes ago, Guirssane.7082 said:

its broken, u only need 3 specs to win atm : specter, harb and willbender + a support. Nothing else. The meta is so weird right now that its only 3  classes with insane mobility dominating. You can't side node like before because you'll get zerged in 3s.

Team of roamer winning all games, what a meta 😉

The support capable classes with hyper mobility and out of this world mobility.

Nothing stands a chance.

Pure insanity.

One can only hope June 28th ends this madness.

[semak.7481]

23 minutes ago, Guirssane.7082 said:

its broken, u only need 3 specs to win atm : specter, harb and willbender + a support. Nothing else. The meta is so weird right now that its only 3  classes with insane mobility dominating. You can't side node like before because you'll get zerged in 3s.

Team of roamer winning all games, what a meta 😉

roamers with a sustain of a bunker with crazy damage, what a time to be alive, isnt it ?

I wonder, why its always thief guardian and necromancer (rev is always around but he got eclipsed by these this time xD)

[Tulkas.2576]

Give me my eternity’s requiem damage back and I’ll eat those shits up for breakfast again. 
 

Vindi’s were keeping all these harbs under control but peeps had to whine and get them nerfed. 

[semak.7481]

12 hours ago, Tulkas.2576 said:

Give me my eternity’s requiem damage back and I’ll eat those shits up for breakfast again. 
 

Vindi’s were keeping all these harbs under control but peeps had to whine and get them nerfed. 

Lmao, make my class even more broken than the most broken one, that will save us from harbs!

But who will them from something that even more broken than harb? 🤡

[Koensol.5860]

I knew this class was broken the moment I saw it in beta. Just the machinegun auto spam condi vomit is broken in an of itself.

[Bale.3851]

2 hours ago, Koensol.5860 said:

I knew this class was broken the moment I saw it in beta. Just the machinegun auto spam condi vomit is broken in an of itself.

 

Auto attack condi spam is damage wise nearly the same as reaper with soul reaping just with less aoe btw. Its funny how people tend to missunderstand harbinger. Auto attack is not why harbinger is op.

[Poledra Val.1490]

36 minutes ago, Bale.3851 said:

 

Auto attack condi spam is damage wise nearly the same as reaper with soul reaping just with less aoe btw. Its funny how people tend to missunderstand harbinger. Auto attack is not why harbinger is op.

Yeah its not just autoattack of course but the whole spec as a whole is so incredibly overtuned it feels like a one man nuclear bomb going off.

[Koensol.5860]

1 hour ago, Bale.3851 said:

 

Auto attack condi spam is damage wise nearly the same as reaper with soul reaping just with less aoe btw. Its funny how people tend to missunderstand harbinger. Auto attack is not why harbinger is op.

Dude, nice strawman. I didn't say that it is the reason that it is OP, but it is still a broken amount of dmg from ranged 11111 spam with insane speed. Ofc it is everything together, namely the obscene dmg reduction and cleansing on top of the damage. Comparing it with reaper isn't even in the same category. Harb auto is faster and ranged and vomits condi, while having a ton of mitigation.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Koensol.5860

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Just give us back Retaliation, and only to certain professions (warrior (defense), mesmer (chaos), and engineer (tools)).

Edit:

Keep it to self only. It would keep the multi hit madness of certain professions at bay.

Edited June 5, 2022 by Lan Deathrider.5910

[Bale.3851]

8 hours ago, Koensol.5860 said:

Dude, nice strawman. I didn't say that it is the reason that it is OP, but it is still a broken amount of dmg from ranged 11111 spam with insane speed. Ofc it is everything together, namely the obscene dmg reduction and cleansing on top of the damage. Comparing it with reaper isn't even in the same category. Harb auto is faster and ranged and vomits condi, while having a ton of mitigation.

 

Yes and i pointed out that the 11111 of reaper is the same as harbinger. The animation of harbinger is just twice as fast. Thank you for your clarification. Now we are back to zero again.

[FarmBotXD.1430]

10 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Just give us back Retaliation, and only to certain professions (warrior (defense), mesmer (chaos), and engineer (tools)).

Edit:

Keep it to self only. It would keep the multi hit madness of certain professions at bay.

no

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

9 minutes ago, FarmBotXD.1430 said:

no

It can even have a 1/4s interval on the damage it does.

[Crab Fear.8623]

1 hour ago, FarmBotXD.1430 said:

no

Yes

[Tulkas.2576]

On 6/4/2022 at 6:42 AM, semak.7481 said:

Lmao, make my class even more broken than the most broken one, that will save us from harbs!

But who will them from something that even more broken than harb? 🤡

you will not need saving. All shall bow down to the greatness of the one shot vindicator and pray to them and shower gifts upon them for freeing them from the tyranny of the harbinger overlords and the Willbender evil doers.
you will enjoy being smote upon from the heavens and dying in glory to eternity’s requiem. 

[Koensol.5860]

10 hours ago, Bale.3851 said:

 

Yes and i pointed out that the 11111 of reaper is the same as harbinger. The animation of harbinger is just twice as fast. Thank you for your clarification. Now we are back to zero again.

Your point being? Btw you forget that harbinger is RANGED. But by all means, go on trying to defend your broken ape 1 spamming class xd. As usual necro has the lowest maintenance build in the game, this time with perma pulsing offensive and defensive boons, condi vomit including weakness, able to get kills with minimal investment. 

Edited June 6, 2022 by Koensol.5860

[Bale.3851]

1 hour ago, Koensol.5860 said:

Your point being? Btw you forget that harbinger is RANGED. But by all means, go on trying to defend your broken ape 1 spamming class xd. As usual necro has the lowest maintenance build in the game, this time with perma pulsing offensive and defensive boons, condi vomit including weakness, able to get kills with minimal investment. 

 

Nice strawman. Wasnt that your answer before. Funny how you tend to strawmans now. I even told you harbinger is op. Just that 1111 isnt the reason. Funny how you suddenly unlearn to read. As a ranger main (i love my untamed btw) its my duty to hunt half backed statements like yours. Happy that you learned why harbinger is opressive and corrected yourself. I count that as a success.

[Koensol.5860]

17 minutes ago, Bale.3851 said:

 

Nice strawman. Wasnt that your answer before. Funny how you tend to strawmans now. I even told you harbinger is op. Just that 1111 isnt the reason. Funny how you suddenly unlearn to read. As a ranger main (i love my untamed btw) its my duty to hunt half backed statements like yours. Happy that you learned why harbinger is opressive and corrected yourself. I count that as a success.

Lmao. You literally failed to understand the context my very first comment. I said that the damage from the 111 spam in and of itself is broken as a whole. Then I elaborated, and explained it is not just the autos which make harb broken. To which you said "yea I told you it is the same as reaper auto" , which outside of high dmg it isn't. Harb auto is faster, ranged, and applies condis and builds death magic stacks. You are just all over the place with your post. So your point is that harbinger auto isn't broken? Okay, cool. I disagree greatly though xd

Edited June 6, 2022 by Koensol.5860

[Bale.3851]

5 minutes ago, Koensol.5860 said:

Lmao. You literally failed to understand the context my very first comment. I said that the damage from the 111 spam in and of itself is broken as a whole. Then I elaborated, and explained it is not just the autos which make harb broken. To which you said "yea I told you it is the same as reaper auto" , which outside of high dmg it isn't. Harb auto is faster, ranged, and applies condis and builds death magic stacks. You are just all over the place with your post. So your point is that harbinger auto isn't broken? Okay, cool. I disagree greatly though xd

 

No, we both agree that harb is op but your statemant was "Just the machinegun auto spam condi vomit is broken in an of itself."

which isnt true. The damage is the same as reaper auto. One is melee, one is ranged. So sure you got 900 range but you also have less aoe AND you get shut down by reflect effects. That balances both AA pretty well.

 

What really makes harbinger op right now is the interaction with deathmagic, which you seem to agree on. The condi spit is so massive that carapace stack are nearly maxed out 100% of the time granting you their bonus perma plus perma protection in fight. Thats what making harbinger to tanky. But your conclusion is to reduce AA? Why? The stacks would be up non the less through pistol 2, 3, Shroud 2 and so on. Thats my problem with your post.

 

My solution would be to slap carapace build up with an internal cd (0,5 or 1 sec) and do the same for pulsing protection (5 or 10 sec). This way harbingers interaction with deathmagic gets weaker which makes it less tanky and core necro nearly stays the same. So overall it increases build diversity which is good in my opinion.  Thank you for further evaluation of your post. 

[Myror.7521]

@Bale.3851 so you wana tell us that a reaper melee autoattack chain that does 4k per hit max Power damage is as good as a harbringer dealing 15k damage in 2 seconds (without the conditions here) and on range? 

 

Over all if a ranged weapon deal so mutch more damage than a melee weapon. Then there is something going realy wrong xd! Cause on range is always better simply cause it meant you could run away and deal hard damage while in melee you first need to cc/imob/cripple the enemy to get something done. That is also the reason why the febr 2020 Patch back then was pretty stupid. It made run and spamy builds ways harder to punish and now well we end up in a meta where mobility plus hard damage is everything while cc means instantly a damage loss lmao

[pallas.8150]

Very tired of Harbingers in PvP atm. Unfortunately, balance passes often seem to skirt past Guardian and Necro professions.

[Kuya.6495]

10 minutes ago, pallas.8150 said:

Very tired of Harbingers in PvP atm. Unfortunately, balance passes often seem to skirt past Guardian and Necro professions.

FB nerfs?

Scourge nerfs?

Rune of the trapper nerfs?

Lich damage nerf?

Blood magic nerfs?

 

Guys I got a revolutionary concept. Maybe the issue isn't that Anet doesn't nerf guard or necro. Maybe the issue is core traitlines designed around the limitations of certain professions (guardian boon access/AOE effects vs low hp/low mobility, necro boon corruption/high hp vs low mobility/low stunbreaks) compound and break down when you add elite specializations that remove those limitations and leave little downsides (willbender and harbinger remove mobility handicaps but still get all the benefits from core traits meant to compensate for original weaknesses). 

 

It's not all a conspiracy against you guys and your win rates.

 

Edited June 7, 2022 by Kuya.6495

[Crab Fear.8623]

33 minutes ago, Kuya.6495 said:

FB nerfs?

Scourge nerfs?

Rune of the trapper nerfs?

Lich damage nerf?

Blood magic nerfs?

 

Guys I got a revolutionary concept. Maybe the issue isn't that Anet doesn't nerf guard or necro. Maybe the issue is core traitlines designed around the limitations of certain professions (guardian boon access/AOE effects vs low hp/low mobility, necro boon corruption/high hp vs low mobility/low stunbreaks) compound and break down when you add elite specializations that remove those limitations and leave little downsides (willbender and harbinger remove mobility handicaps but still get all the benefits from core traits meant to compensate for original weaknesses). 

 

It's not all a conspiracy against you guys and your win rates.

 

 

Yeah, but you got to look at all the nerfs of other classes prior to eod release, pretty much paving the way.

Nerf a necro once, nerf everyone else twice.

It is not a conspiracy, necro and guards are objectively the strongest in the game for about 5 years running, one way or another.

It is very boring, tiring, and off-putting.

The goal of balance should be that nothing is so great that two is particularly a good idea to have on a team.

It's terrible to say, but willbenders were usable before the buffs, and oddly their main problems where trapper dh, and daredevil...now those are non-issue.

Much earlier changes to resistance and retaliation and nerfs to damage and cc gave necros the ability to persevere.

Nothing was allowed to keep them in check, and now here we are.

 

If they want these classes to stay operational as they are, they will unfortunately have to chop into some core benefits, or at least adoptions.

Also, previous opposing classes will need buffs to cull the over use of these classes.

 

Example, ranger could take a necro to town and to the grave, but corrosive cloud is far to long of a duration.

It appears as if anet literally went about taking away every problem these two classes over the years.

 

Willbender moves around the map with ease even without targets, and with targets in the distance, faster than daredevil.

Odd how thief has an 8 initiative cost to shortbow, and a 40 second heal, and this willbender got cooldown reductions to movements which also heal....

 

People are not just making up things, their is a clear division of power level between these two and everything else.