The missing element of Wanderlust

[Lily.1935]

This is a topic that I've been coming back to for the past couple of years ever since I started to feel a major decline in my interest in Guild Wars 2. And my decline in interest isn't all Arena net's fault, I don't want to mislead anyone into believing that I'm attacking arena net, but rather wanting to discuss an element in MMOs I feel is sorely missing as a whole. And that is the sense of Wanderlust and how it has impacted my enjoyment of the game and subsequently my enjoyment of other RPGs.When I started Guild Wars 2 I honestly had this sense of Wanderlust about the game. I wanted to explore everything and there was quite a bit to explore in the game. I took my time with the game and leveling trying to trigger as many events as possible and move through the game, looking at all the new sights to see. I didn't realize it at the time but my enjoyment of the new game at that time wasn't because of some end game promise or powerful loot, but just the joy of exploration. The joy of discovery. Starting the game of GW2 there was a lot to explore. Each map filled with so many hidden secrets and lots of Dialog.This Feeling I get from exploring comes in each time a new expansion comes along, it did with HoT and again with PoF. However the experience is always so much more shallow both times afterward compared to that first time starting up GW2. And I don't personally believe it has to do with nostalgia but play time and scale. HoT and PoF in spite of how good or bad of expansions they might be don't have nearly the same level of exploreable area and content that the core game did. And I highly doubt it would matter if they did. I fear my feelings toward it might be the same.PoF changed a bit of this by scratching that desire of mine in a new way, much like HoT did, however its short lived and it only exacerbates the problem and breaks me out of the experience that GW2 is trying to offer me. First HoT with its gliders, allowing me to get to new places on old maps I couldn't have gotten to before and again in PoF with the mounts, especially Springer and griffon that has let me find new love for the old maps, even if it was short lived. But the issue that they bring is that the way the game was designed almost has a counter intuitive aspect to it. Anet wants you to go form map completion and reward you for getting to difficult to reach places with Vistas and jumping puzzles. But at the same time if you look off in the distance and see a mountain and think "Oh that looks impossible to climb" you'd most likely be right. Except with the mounts which break through the games normal barriers which have their own problems.The mounts have broken my immersion of the game on multiple occasions. Especially the Griffon. Its a blast to ride on sure, but the way the maps are set up I quickly feel like I've been placed in a Hamster cage. I can see the walls closing me in and the mounts have only exacerbated that feeling. If Anet was reluctant to put in mounts before this is likely the reason why. I've been aching for my desire for wanderlust to be met for years now and GW2's world design has only made that desire in me stronger and more nagging.This is an Element that MMORPGs have seem to forgot just how important it is and I feel that Arena net can still take some steps to improve the experience, though I doubt they could do it in GW2 even if I suggested it. GW2 is an old MMO by this point and it's been feeling a bit dated for a while now. Even fore someone like me who only plays the new game occasionally. I feel that if Arena net was going to dive into the future and attempt their hand at a 3rd MMO they'd likely have to push this element a bit harder and remove map barriers entirely, give a longer draw distance and push more vertical and subterranean exploration. However I don't feel that Arena Net would want to take such a gamble like since my opinion is just that, an opinion.I don't know what the solution to this issue might be. I feel that the way GW2 is set up kills it. I desperately wish that it could gill this niche better, but we don't even have rock climbing in the game and even if we did the mounts would likely make that meaningless with their diversity of use. I wonder if underwater should have been use more for exploring rather than actual combat?Anyways I just wanted to share some of my thoughts on this. What about everyone else? how do you feel? Are you also struggling with a strong feeling Wanderlust?

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

I'm a nosey curious exploring lunatic.I've never heard the term wanderlust before, but I do have to say mounts helped and destroyed part of exploring for me.Helped as in like in Brink I'm finding even new ways and cracks in areas to get to the Canopy without having to go the specific way during the daytime no more.

But the biggest destroyed part is... why is there so many (new) invisible walls? Why Invisible walls? Please remove invisible walls. I want to look through stuff and see everything.There is invisible walls everywhere. Dragon's Stand is like unbearable with the new invisible walls. Please just me run around all over the place as long as I don't ploish out of the world. Please? Even if I get and break my skull on the top of the sky somehow... at least I'll think twice before trying it again as it would hurt... the little bit of the brain my character has left from falling from multiple heights... especially when gliding/mounting in non-glidable/mountable areas and just watch myself plummet into the ground and turn into the next Ooze......hm now I know why all those oozes junk item are bones......either way, I can somewhat relate in how you feel, but my reasoning is mostly due to them now trying to restrict me even more because of mounts when it should've given me even more freedom than I had before.

As you call them as "barriers", I can understand when it's leading outside of the world itself, but not when for example in Lornar's Pass. When you get out from Lion's Arch and now want to head south. There's a little piece of a hill/mountainside in the way.I have a griffon or springer... so you would think I can just go over it.Nope... invisible wall. I'm not breaking the borders of the map... why is there an invisible wall there and in many other areas?Is it hard to just move them backwards just a bit? Just a little?

[Torolan.5816]

Nothing, and i mean nothing in a sense that includes cash shops, microtransactions and public trolling, causes me quicker uninstall a game than the exploring of mazes, the inability of my character to use a hook and rope to explore hills or small huts or when he fails to jump over a distance that I myself possibly could cross 99 of 100 times without falling.

On the other hand I understand that there are people who love this stuff. I would be for an option that let´s you use climbers equipment and/or signs on the floor stating follow me to this or that WP, vista or MP for those of us who hate stumbling around in a blind testing manner and the removal of invisible walls for the explorers.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

@Torolan.5816 said:Nothing, and i mean nothing in a sense that includes cash shops, microtransactions and public trolling, causes me quicker uninstall a game than the exploring of mazes, the inability of my character to use a hook and rope to explore hills or small huts or when he fails to jump over a distance that I myself possibly could cross 99 of 100 times without falling.

On the other hand I understand that there are people who love this stuff. I would be for an option that let´s you use climbers equipment and/or signs on the floor stating follow me to this or that WP, vista or MP for those of us who hate stumbling around in a blind testing manner and the removal of invisible walls for the explorers.

Climbing would be wonderful and I would really like this.Can just simply make it somewhat slow so it can't really be exploitable but make everything climbable and remove the invisible walls.

Oh and.... don't take a book from Breath of the Wild please. I don't want the "oh it's raining now" and making me slide on my svanir every 2 seconds trying to get the hell up the hill.

[Teofa Tsavo.9863]

I'll digress a bit. My most memorable exploring experience in an MMO was in SWG. At the time we had only slow creature mounts. I was exploring Lok, mostly unknown at the time. No waypoints, no quest markers, no reason to be there except to find avian meat. I was a Master Ranger.

As I crossed a hour of hostile, barren desert lands I saw something in the distance. Eventually I could make out a large Fortress. Then, as I got closer.. a slow, ominous version of the Imperial March began playing. I had found a secret Imperial Base on Lok. It was pretty awesome.

Few moments like that exist in games anymore.

Pre NGE SWG had "the" Wanderlust profession, Ranger. Terrain negotiation skills, animal tracking skills, camping skills, abilities to read an animals abilities, cammo and scent masking, so many things geared to an explorer. I escaped so many nasty mobs simply by being able to climb better and faster, lol. I have probably 100 screenshots of ruins, abandoned settlements, wrecks and mysterious structures that were never POI or part of any story, just "things" to find and ponder about, far off the "beaten paths" in the game. Planetary maps were huge and zoneless.

[Therzin.5894]

I can sort of see where you're getting with the whole mounts making the world feel smaller. I think that compounded with the fact that a lot of the areas were designed in a sized where they were keeping in mind most people would be running really emphasizes just how small things are. Also doesn't help that each zone is very explicitly walled off from each other, not just with hills but with constant loading screens missing from games like WoW, where whole continents were pretty seamlessly connected to each other. You could fly a griffon from one end to the other and get totally blown away by the sheer scale of everything.

This also might just be me, but as I was leveling up through all of the core zones recently, I noticed they're still a joy to explore, mounts and all. It's not until I reached the later content (HoT, PoF), that I feel like some of the innate charm is kinda lost. Everything is huge and kinda awe inspiring at times but in general it's just... not as charming. Perhaps they took a really large step away from how they were originally designing maps. Your guess is as good as mine.

[Lily.1935]

@"Ayumi Spender.1082" said:I'm a nosey curious exploring lunatic.I've never heard the term wanderlust before, but I do have to say mounts helped and destroyed part of exploring for me.Helped as in like in Brink I'm finding even new ways and cracks in areas to get to the Canopy without having to go the specific way during the daytime no more.

But the biggest destroyed part is... why is there so many (new) invisible walls? Why Invisible walls? Please remove invisible walls. I want to look through stuff and see everything.There is invisible walls everywhere. Dragon's Stand is like unbearable with the new invisible walls. Please just me run around all over the place as long as I don't ploish out of the world. Please? Even if I get and break my skull on the top of the sky somehow... at least I'll think twice before trying it again as it would hurt... the little bit of the brain my character has left from falling from multiple heights... especially when gliding/mounting in non-glidable/mountable areas and just watch myself plummet into the ground and turn into the next Ooze......hm now I know why all those oozes junk item are bones......either way, I can somewhat relate in how you feel, but my reasoning is mostly due to them now trying to restrict me even more because of mounts when it should've given me even more freedom than I had before.

As you call them as "barriers", I can understand when it's leading outside of the world itself, but not when for example in Lornar's Pass. When you get out from Lion's Arch and now want to head south. There's a little piece of a hill/mountainside in the way.I have a griffon or springer... so you would think I can just go over it.Nope... invisible wall. I'm not breaking the borders of the map... why is there an invisible wall there and in many other areas?Is it hard to just move them backwards just a bit? Just a little?

Barriers are different than invisible walls. I'm talking about the edges of maps, not the Invisible walls in the middle of them. Like right before you're about to go into a new map.

[Vavume.8065]

GW2 lacks immersion and atmosphere, the whole time I'm playing it I know I'm just playing a game, I've played other MMO's that immersed me so deeply in their atmosphere that their world become my world, that's not the case here...

[pah.4931]

The problem is that Gaming (capital G) has shifted too much. The amount of money it takes to make a great MMO isn't worth it when you can spend a tenth of that on a mobile game and make three times more in return.

MMOs used to be niche. They could get by on fewer than a hundred thousand regular players. Now, other than crowd-funding (which is almost ALWAYS significantly shadier than something as innocent as loot boxes) , it is almost impossible to get a big enough upfront investment to make an MMO that will make waves.

Not enough people want an MMO that is just made to be fun and open. Everyone need a "Reason to play"...

[Lily.1935]

@pah.4931 said:The problem is that Gaming (capital G) has shifted too much. The amount of money it takes to make a great MMO isn't worth it when you can spend a tenth of that on a mobile game and make three times more in return.

MMOs used to be niche. They could get by on fewer than a hundred thousand regular players. Now, other than crowd-funding (which is almost ALWAYS significantly shadier than something as innocent as loot boxes) , it is almost impossible to get a big enough upfront investment to make an MMO that will make waves.

Not enough people want an MMO that is just made to be fun and open. Everyone need a "Reason to play"...

People don't have any clue what they want. I feel that is apparent with the way games have gone lately.

[Goettel.4389]

I've gotten used to them, but instanced zones do detract a lot from the feeling of exploring a world. One of my strongest feelings of 'wanderlust' was my first c̶o̶w̶ Tauren crossing the ridge leaving Mulgore for the Barrens in WoW, suddenly realizing how huge the world was. No MMO has matched that feeling for me yet. Maybe it IS nostalgia, dunno.

[Lily.1935]

@Goettel.4389 said:I've gotten used to them, but instanced zones do detract a lot from the feeling of exploring a world. One of my strongest feelings of 'wanderlust' was my first c̶o̶w̶ Tauren crossing the ridge leaving Mulgore for the Barrens in WoW, suddenly realizing how huge the world was. No MMO has matched that feeling for me yet. Maybe it IS nostalgia, dunno.

For me I've gotten that experience from Skyrim when I turned off fast travel and from Starbound. Never an MMO but I've always felt that an MMO could do it the best of any game. It just hasn't capitalized on that.

[Teofa Tsavo.9863]

Vanguard: Saga of Heroes had it's problems, but the vast and totally open world was amazing. I remember as a newb Hobbit leatherworker having to go all the way to the Orc homelands to con a goblin out of a recipe. Even using a horse getting there took me 2 evenings of game time, and I didn't zone once. I did stick to the roads since I was insta-kill level. Sneaking past the Orc outposts was nerve wracking..

Skyrim without Fast travel is the only way to go :). So many random encounters missed if you don't. Helps that Skyrim horses are mountain killing beasts.

[Lily.1935]

@Teofa Tsavo.9863 said:Vanguard: Saga of Heroes had it's problems, but the vast and totally open world was amazing. I remember as a newb Hobbit leatherworker having to go all the way to the Orc homelands to con a goblin out of a recipe. Even using a horse getting there took me 2 evenings of game time, and I didn't zone once. I did stick to the roads since I was insta-kill level.

Skyrim without Fast travel is the only way to go :). So many random encounters missed if you don't. Helps that Skyrim horses are mountain killing beasts.

I ended up getting my mount killed all the time. I had tones of Mods though so one of the spells I had was super speed. Made it quicker but by that point in the game I had done everything.

Another issue with GW2 I notice is the camera. It harms imersion in the way its set up. Very similar to how most MMOs do it, but without that close back 3rd person you'd see in something like Skyrim or even Dark souls the world just feels much smaller even though GW2's world is actually larger.

[Leo G.4501]

@pah.4931 said:The problem is that Gaming (capital G) has shifted too much. The amount of money it takes to make a great MMO isn't worth it when you can spend a tenth of that on a mobile game and make three times more in return.

MMOs used to be niche. They could get by on fewer than a hundred thousand regular players. Now, other than crowd-funding (which is almost ALWAYS significantly shadier than something as innocent as loot boxes) , it is almost impossible to get a big enough upfront investment to make an MMO that will make waves.

Not enough people want an MMO that is just made to be fun and open. Everyone need a "Reason to play"...

Not only that. But everyone is a Critic.

I don't mean that everyone has an opinion but more using the phrase to exaggerate. I mean, it's like an era where people will look at things a lot more critically which is good...if you're trying to express your opinion to others and be less subjective overall on a subject, but you also tend to cut in on your enjoyment of what you're critiquing, especially for those that don't know how to "turn it off" when you just want to have fun.

People rush to do things first or fast so they can have an objective opinion on it rather than using 2nd hand experience. People echo each others' criticism and thus reach a verdict and when you reach a kind of finality on a subject, you're going to tend to prejudge it on said verdict rather than for the experience you've been having, have had or could have if you know a flaw exist but somehow game the system to avoid said flaw. I'm pretty sure, as you live along side your significant other longer and longer, you notice more flaws and their mistakes over time but it's not healthy to only be a critic about it. You can embrace those flaws/mistakes or just avoid them and look past them to what makes you love that person.

But games are a bit different, namely games are not in a monogamous relationship with you. If you feel that a game doesn't do a particular thing well or was but after some time, the shine has buffered off and you can see its flaws, there is nothing stopping you, as a gamer, from playing something else and enjoying an aspect you can no longer get from the game you've been playing. There are THOUSANDS of games out there! At this point, it's practically impossible for a single person to experience them all and live a healthy life. So exactly what is holding you to play one particular game until you don't enjoy it anymore? Because at the end of the day, the main detractor of "Wanderlust" is familiarity and you're going to get familiar with something over time unless it's procedurally generated.

[Teofa Tsavo.9863]

@Leo G.4501 said:

@pah.4931 said:The problem is that Gaming (capital G) has shifted too much. The amount of money it takes to make a great MMO isn't worth it when you can spend a tenth of that on a mobile game and make three times more in return.

MMOs used to be niche. They could get by on fewer than a hundred thousand regular players. Now, other than crowd-funding (which is almost ALWAYS significantly shadier than something as innocent as loot boxes) , it is almost impossible to get a big enough upfront investment to make an MMO that will make waves.

Not enough people want an MMO that is just made to be fun and open. Everyone need a "Reason to play"...

Not only that. But everyone is a Critic.

I don't mean that everyone has an opinion but more using the phrase to exaggerate. I mean, it's like an era where people will look at things a lot more critically which is good...if you're trying to express your opinion to others and be less subjective overall on a subject, but you also tend to cut in on your enjoyment of what you're critiquing, especially for those that don't know how to "turn it off" when you just want to have fun.

People rush to do things first or fast so they can have an objective opinion on it rather than using 2nd hand experience. People echo each others' criticism and thus reach a verdict and when you reach a kind of finality on a subject, you're going to tend to prejudge it on said verdict rather than for the experience you've been having, have had or could have if you know a flaw exist but somehow game the system to avoid said flaw. I'm pretty sure, as you live along side your significant other longer and longer, you notice more flaws and their mistakes over time but it's not healthy to only be a critic about it. You can embrace those flaws/mistakes or just avoid them and look past them to what makes you love that person.

But games are a bit different, namely games are not in a monogamous relationship with you. If you feel that a game doesn't do a particular thing well or was but after some time, the shine has buffered off and you can see its flaws, there is nothing stopping you, as a gamer, from playing something else and enjoying an aspect you can no longer get from the game you've been playing. There are THOUSANDS of games out there! At this point, it's practically impossible for a single person to experience them all and live a healthy life. So exactly what is holding you to play one particular game until you don't enjoy it anymore? Because at the end of the day, the main detractor of "Wanderlust" is familiarity and you're going to get familiar with something over time unless it's procedurally generated.

Good point, and the reason Skyrim continues to soldier on, as mods can totally alter that familiarity and give a new experience. The skyrim I play now is a far cry from my first playthrough. MMOs simply cannot do that.

MMO's have also dumbed down to the "golden path" or Storyline clearly defined, point a to point b scenario, and it is the players who drove that. Players won't take the original SWG Koster game, landing in Bestine with a base profession, a set of clothes, survival knife and a melon. No quests. Go forth and become "something". You decide.

[Lily.1935]

Arena net has been talking a bit lately about "The Joy of Movement" which is a good way to describe part of this issue. And I agree that it is important for the game. The mounts are a joy to use. But I feel that their expression with that joy is a bit short sighted. I want to experience the joy of movement without a mount too. Why can't my mesmer teleport across a gorge? Why can't my engineer create a bounce pad? Why can't my elementalist freeze part of the lack and serf across it? Why can't my necromancer conjure a bone bridge? Why can't my thief rope up onto a wall? Why do I need a valid path at all?

Of course I understand the reasoning behind this at first. But mounts and Gliding destroys that reasoning and I just feel like these limitations should be at least somewhat lifted.

[Wizler.8192]

I'm like this too. I love exploring. There will (possibly) be new zones soon in lws4.

I've played since beta but my buddy is newer. He was playing his 47 ranger and I suddenly felt like I missed leveling and exploring... I missed when things were new. But I can't go back. That's life I guess and there's other arenas to explore in the meantime.

[Lily.1935]

@Teofa Tsavo.9863 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:

@pah.4931 said:The problem is that Gaming (capital G) has shifted too much. The amount of money it takes to make a great MMO isn't worth it when you can spend a tenth of that on a mobile game and make three times more in return.

MMOs used to be niche. They could get by on fewer than a hundred thousand regular players. Now, other than crowd-funding (which is almost ALWAYS significantly shadier than something as innocent as loot boxes) , it is almost impossible to get a big enough upfront investment to make an MMO that will make waves.

Not enough people want an MMO that is just made to be fun and open. Everyone need a "Reason to play"...

Not only that. But everyone is a Critic.

I don't mean that everyone has an opinion but more using the phrase to exaggerate. I mean, it's like an era where people will look at things a lot more critically which is good...if you're trying to express your opinion to others and be less subjective overall on a subject, but you also tend to cut in on your enjoyment of what you're critiquing, especially for those that don't know how to "turn it off" when you just want to have fun.

People rush to do things first or fast so they can have an objective opinion on it rather than using 2nd hand experience. People echo each others' criticism and thus reach a verdict and when you reach a kind of finality on a subject, you're going to tend to prejudge it on said verdict rather than for the experience you've been having, have had or could have if you know a flaw exist but somehow game the system to avoid said flaw. I'm pretty sure, as you live along side your significant other longer and longer, you notice more flaws and their mistakes over time but it's not healthy to only be a critic about it. You can embrace those flaws/mistakes or just avoid them and look past them to what makes you love that person.

But games are a bit different, namely games are not in a monogamous relationship with you. If you feel that a game doesn't do a particular thing well or was but after some time, the shine has buffered off and you can see its flaws, there is nothing stopping you, as a gamer, from playing something else and enjoying an aspect you can no longer get from the game you've been playing. There are THOUSANDS of games out there! At this point, it's practically impossible for a single person to experience them all and live a healthy life. So exactly what is holding you to play one particular game until you don't enjoy it anymore? Because at the end of the day, the main detractor of "Wanderlust" is familiarity and you're going to get familiar with something over time unless it's procedurally generated.

Good point, and the reason Skyrim continues to soldier on, as mods can totally alter that familiarity and give a new experience. The skyrim I play now is a far cry from my first playthrough. MMOs simply cannot do that.

I think an MMO could change the playthrough each time, however no MMO currently on the market could. I've had a hypothetical MMO in my brain for some time that would use Seeds for the server which would make the environment partially or mostly random so that new playthroughs on other servers could feel different. There is a lot more to the idea than just that, but its a very basic start to the idea.

[Leo G.4501]

@Teofa Tsavo.9863 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:

@pah.4931 said:The problem is that Gaming (capital G) has shifted too much. The amount of money it takes to make a great MMO isn't worth it when you can spend a tenth of that on a mobile game and make three times more in return.

MMOs used to be niche. They could get by on fewer than a hundred thousand regular players. Now, other than crowd-funding (which is almost ALWAYS significantly shadier than something as innocent as loot boxes) , it is almost impossible to get a big enough upfront investment to make an MMO that will make waves.

Not enough people want an MMO that is just made to be fun and open. Everyone need a "Reason to play"...

Not only that. But everyone is a Critic.

I don't mean that everyone has an opinion but more using the phrase to exaggerate. I mean, it's like an era where people will look at things a lot more critically which is good...if you're trying to express your opinion to others and be less subjective overall on a subject, but you also tend to cut in on your enjoyment of what you're critiquing, especially for those that don't know how to "turn it off" when you just want to have fun.

People rush to do things first or fast so they can have an objective opinion on it rather than using 2nd hand experience. People echo each others' criticism and thus reach a verdict and when you reach a kind of finality on a subject, you're going to tend to prejudge it on said verdict rather than for the experience you've been having, have had or could have if you know a flaw exist but somehow game the system to avoid said flaw. I'm pretty sure, as you live along side your significant other longer and longer, you notice more flaws and their mistakes over time but it's not healthy to only be a critic about it. You can embrace those flaws/mistakes or just avoid them and look past them to what makes you love that person.

But games are a bit different, namely games are not in a monogamous relationship with you. If you feel that a game doesn't do a particular thing well or was but after some time, the shine has buffered off and you can see its flaws, there is nothing stopping you, as a gamer, from playing something else and enjoying an aspect you can no longer get from the game you've been playing. There are THOUSANDS of games out there! At this point, it's practically impossible for a single person to experience them all and live a healthy life. So exactly what is holding you to play one particular game until you don't enjoy it anymore? Because at the end of the day, the main detractor of "Wanderlust" is familiarity and you're going to get familiar with something over time unless it's procedurally generated.

Good point, and the reason Skyrim continues to soldier on, as mods can totally alter that familiarity and give a new experience. The skyrim I play now is a far cry from my first playthrough. MMOs simply cannot do that.

For me, it's Pokemon. There are dedicated people out there that hack the existing roms to change difficulty or make their own complete story and monsters. I get bored with Pokemon pretty quick but after taking a break, I always find myself coming back to it and playing the same old games but with different pokemon teams and feeling a similar bond I had or still have with the teams I used before.

[Teofa Tsavo.9863]

@Lily.1935 said:

@Teofa Tsavo.9863 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:

@pah.4931 said:The problem is that Gaming (capital G) has shifted too much. The amount of money it takes to make a great MMO isn't worth it when you can spend a tenth of that on a mobile game and make three times more in return.

MMOs used to be niche. They could get by on fewer than a hundred thousand regular players. Now, other than crowd-funding (which is almost ALWAYS significantly shadier than something as innocent as loot boxes) , it is almost impossible to get a big enough upfront investment to make an MMO that will make waves.

Not enough people want an MMO that is just made to be fun and open. Everyone need a "Reason to play"...

Not only that. But everyone is a Critic.

I don't mean that everyone has an opinion but more using the phrase to exaggerate. I mean, it's like an era where people will look at things a lot more critically which is good...if you're trying to express your opinion to others and be less subjective overall on a subject, but you also tend to cut in on your enjoyment of what you're critiquing, especially for those that don't know how to "turn it off" when you just want to have fun.

People rush to do things first or fast so they can have an objective opinion on it rather than using 2nd hand experience. People echo each others' criticism and thus reach a verdict and when you reach a kind of finality on a subject, you're going to tend to prejudge it on said verdict rather than for the experience you've been having, have had or could have if you know a flaw exist but somehow game the system to avoid said flaw. I'm pretty sure, as you live along side your significant other longer and longer, you notice more flaws and their mistakes over time but it's not healthy to only be a critic about it. You can embrace those flaws/mistakes or just avoid them and look past them to what makes you love that person.

But games are a bit different, namely games are not in a monogamous relationship with you. If you feel that a game doesn't do a particular thing well or was but after some time, the shine has buffered off and you can see its flaws, there is nothing stopping you, as a gamer, from playing something else and enjoying an aspect you can no longer get from the game you've been playing. There are THOUSANDS of games out there! At this point, it's practically impossible for a single person to experience them all and live a healthy life. So exactly what is holding you to play one particular game until you don't enjoy it anymore? Because at the end of the day, the main detractor of "Wanderlust" is familiarity and you're going to get familiar with something over time unless it's procedurally generated.

Good point, and the reason Skyrim continues to soldier on, as mods can totally alter that familiarity and give a new experience. The skyrim I play now is a far cry from my first playthrough. MMOs simply cannot do that.

I think an MMO could change the playthrough each time, however no MMO currently on the market could. I've had a hypothetical MMO in my brain for some time that would use Seeds for the server which would make the environment partially or mostly random so that new playthroughs on other servers could feel different. There is a lot more to the idea than just that, but its a very basic start to the idea.

The early Sandboxes, particularly SWG, had that... as there was no "path" to anything every playthrough could be vastly different. The console demographic the Publishers so desperately wanted absolutely rejected that path. The desire to be a scripted "Hero" on a largely predetermined path killed the pure sandbox. In SWG I had one char who did no combat and was a professional Dancer and tailor. One who was an Imperial Soldier and did world pvp. Another who evolved from a market/meat hunter to high level weapons crafter. (at that time all High end items were player crafted and only a very few weapons dropped, most of low quality or soon to break hi damage snowflakes) None of which had quest paths or goals imposed by the game. You "won" the game defined by your own goals and decisions.

[jheryn.8390]

I feel the same OP. You are spot on. I was against mounts entering the game.

I decided to give them a chance once they were in the game. I actually enjoy riding around and like what each of them do. However, I am back to the reason that I didn't want mounts in the first place. They destroy immersion for me.

You absolutely need them in PoF zones as you would never get to any event or place quick enough to do what you need to do on foot. The problem is that they move us around so fast that the beauty and the details of the maps are diminished.

I don't find myself enjoying the places and things on a map because I am speeding past or jumping over them. It's no longer a struggle to get to a place because you don't have to fight to get to where you are going any longer. Just super jump past enemies and terrain on your raptor.

There is no wanderlust any longer because you don't have to wander.

[Lily.1935]

@jheryn.8390 said:I feel the same OP. You are spot on. I was against mounts entering the game.

I decided to give them a chance once they were in the game. I actually enjoy riding around and like what each of them do. However, I am back to the reason that I didn't want mounts in the first place. They destroy immersion for me.

You absolutely need them in PoF zones as you would never get to any event or place quick enough to do what you need to do on foot. The problem is that they move us around so fast that the beauty and the details of the maps are diminished.

I don't find myself enjoying the places and things on a map because I am speeding past or jumping over them. It's no longer a struggle to get to a place because you don't have to fight to get to where you are going any longer. Just super jump past enemies and terrain on your raptor.

There is no wanderlust any longer because you don't have to wander.

I feel mounts compound the issue, but are not the cause of it. GW2 had had this problem for a long time and I really started to feel it some years ago. Although I only started putting a word to it about a year ago.

[jheryn.8390]

@Lily.1935 said:

@jheryn.8390 said:I feel the same OP. You are spot on. I was against mounts entering the game.

I decided to give them a chance once they were in the game. I actually enjoy riding around and like what each of them do. However, I am back to the reason that I didn't want mounts in the first place. They destroy immersion for me.

You absolutely need them in PoF zones as you would never get to any event or place quick enough to do what you need to do on foot. The problem is that they move us around so fast that the beauty and the details of the maps are diminished.

I don't find myself enjoying the places and things on a map because I am speeding past or jumping over them. It's no longer a struggle to get to a place because you don't have to fight to get to where you are going any longer. Just super jump past enemies and terrain on your raptor.

There is no wanderlust any longer because you don't have to wander.

I feel mounts compound the issue, but are not the cause of it. GW2 had had this problem for a long time and I really started to feel it some years ago. Although I only started putting a word to it about a year ago.

Oh, I don't completely blame mounts for the problem, but it was certainly a huge detractor for me personally.

I agree with your whole first post, mounts provided a temporary enjoyment for me, but now I just feel that they made the wanderlust problem you described that much worse. That is just my opinion, but it is also my experience whether that is shared by others or not.

[YoukiNeko.6047]

For me the best exploration in MMORPG was in UO. The first time I got lost in the 'Lost Lands' was amazing.

With the current player market it would be really hard to make MMORPG focused on exploration and still begin profitable.Because creating a map with all the landmarks, creatures, events and small details is harder than creating a grind collection or a difficult dungeon.

By the way Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild is by far the best exploration game I've played, and that game took so much time to be created.