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@Ertrak.9506 said:

@dchsknight.3042 said:this what I might consider. Still new to this builds thing. And I am PVE mostly.

That's a nice chrono build ya got there.

WHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT?! Hold on I will redo it. I should not be chrono. Like I said I am new to this build site.

Sorry...

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@dchsknight.3042 said:

@Ertrak.9506 said:

@dchsknight.3042 said:this what I might consider. Still new to this builds thing. And I am PVE mostly.

That's a nice chrono build ya got there.

WHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAATTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT?! Hold on I will redo it. I should not be chrono. Like I said I am new to this build site.

Sorry...

Is cool. Gonna use this to post my renagade build(s) later

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@Ertrak.9506 said:I would recommend switching that carrion over to viper other wise youre not maxing out your condition durations. Same for the berserker runes to nightmare/ trapper

Are you sure? here is my reasoning and you can tell me what you think. I am also not countering you point to argue I really want to dive into Renegade so learning as much as possible.

With berserkers it gives a flat 5% condition damage increase. I feel it is a better trade off as your condis would be hitting that much harder. I mean your pretty much going to be keeping up the condi naturally. With the might stacks that keep going up your condition damage will just ramp up.

AND from my experince from the game that shall not be named, a dot that ticks faster is better dps than a dot that ticks longer for the same amount of damage.

Does Condition duration extended the duration and add more ticks thus making the dot do more damage or does it just make the duration longer by lengthening out the time in between ticks? If it just lengthens the time that is pointless.

EDIT:Trapper is garbage for us. We don't have traps....Afflicted/krait is a much better choice because it directly affects our main condi which is bleed.

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Gonna start with an initial condi build . Could swap smoldering sigil, but with that you'd lose 10% burn duration and overcap bleed and torment. (SB is not better than mace/axe atm). It is basically an upgraded version of what we have now.

What I am not sure if it will work (but really want to) is this support build. It gives perma protection and about 90% alacrity uptime, but what will make or break it is how powerful the elite will be (as it scales with your healing power for the heals and power for the damage)

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@AMessiah.9401 said:What I am not sure if it will work (but really want to) is this support build. It gives perma protection and about 90% alacrity uptime, but what will make or break it is how powerful the elite will be (as it scales with your healing power for the heals and power for the damage)

I am pretty sure the alacrity uptime is less than you think. You get 6s from the super expensive f4 that eats up 40% of your energy or the tablet skill is 3s per 20 energy and no cooldown (no change from before, in other words). At an energy recharge rate of 5% per second, you are getting an initial burst of 6s, then you wait 2s for 3s more, then another 4s for another 3s... repeating, which is 75% max after the initial burst. But, you are not going to be doing anything else for your team but auto-attacking and camping that tablet skill (if you move the tablet, you lost alacrity uptime!). Unless they change those numbers, chrono will never be replaced for providing alacrity.

Instead, you should focus on the healing aspect of a support rev and forget about the alacrity unless it happens along in your need to burst heal.For example:Exactly 100% boon duration using Herald and not having to weapon swap

100.07% boon duration with Renegade but you have to weapon swap

WvW build with 100.2% boon duration and no weapon swap

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So this is one of my many ideas for a condi build:http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNApXlnXMfNSumvJRZzHlst5kSY38SJ4burkFUliNJWioINAKgE4fETxXE-jRiAQBgU5HAOhA2UJIEV/Bg6L4wDCgH7PAtjAQ0OEABAOAGv4Ff8AjP+4jP+4V8xHf8xHf8xHf8SBooyK-e

Another is to swap one of sigils out on the bow for a sigil of smoldering given there is no other burning duration boost outside of the viper's gear.

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I wanted to edit the previous post but now I do not have permission? Weird... Sorry for the triple post but there is just no way to delete/merge the other two :(

@dchsknight.3042 said:

@Ertrak.9506 said:I would recommend switching that carrion over to viper other wise youre not maxing out your condition durations. Same for the berserker runes to nightmare/ trapper

Are you sure? here is my reasoning and you can tell me what you think. I am also not countering you point to argue I really want to dive into Renegade so learning as much as possible.

With berserkers it gives a flat 5% condition damage increase. I feel it is a better trade off as your condis would be hitting that much harder. I mean your pretty much going to be keeping up the condi naturally. With the might stacks that keep going up your condition damage will just ramp up.

AND from my experince from the game that shall not be named, a dot that ticks faster is better dps than a dot that ticks longer for the same amount of damage.

Does Condition duration extended the duration and add more ticks thus making the dot do more damage or does it just make the duration longer by lengthening out the time in between ticks? If it just lengthens the time that is pointless.

In GW2, all "dot's" tick at the same rate, once per second. The longer they last, the more damage they will do unless the target has such low xp that a single burst would be enough to kill them. So, for anything that is an elite or harder, you want long-lasting conditions. For anything else, you are better off with power anyhow. That is why all condi builds you see today max condi duration first and then follow with condi damage second.

EDIT:Trapper is garbage for us. We don't have traps....Afflicted/krait is a much better choice because it directly affects our main condi which is bleed.

This is simply not true. The point of nightmare/trapper is to take two trapper and four nightmare for the condi duration, not all six of either one of them. As to the conditions that a rev can apply? On crit, they apply torment, on torment, they apply poison (on a 10s internal cool down). On the mace/axe weapons, you also apply a LOT of burning in addition to the torment (mace two can keep up a fire field as long as its cooldown). With shortbow, you get a couple skills with bleed, one with torment, and two more with burn. That means you have three significant conditions that do damage. Of those, bleed does the least damage!

  • Burn is a lot more bursty and does more damage with shorter duration.
  • Bleed is very easy to stack but does not do a lot of damage on a stack-to-stack basis.
  • Torment now has the same base damage as bleed but the added damage if a target moves, making it the best of the two.
  • Poison is just an extra we kinda ignore.
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@Pompeia.5483 said:I wanted to edit the previous post but now I do not have permission? Weird... Sorry for the triple post but there is just no way to delete/merge the other two :(

@dchsknight.3042 said:

@Ertrak.9506 said:I would recommend switching that carrion over to viper other wise youre not maxing out your condition durations. Same for the berserker runes to nightmare/ trapper

Are you sure? here is my reasoning and you can tell me what you think. I am also not countering you point to argue I really want to dive into Renegade so learning as much as possible.

With berserkers it gives a flat 5% condition damage increase. I feel it is a better trade off as your condis would be hitting that much harder. I mean your pretty much going to be keeping up the condi naturally. With the might stacks that keep going up your condition damage will just ramp up.

AND from my experince from the game that shall not be named, a dot that ticks faster is better dps than a dot that ticks longer for the same amount of damage.

Does Condition duration extended the duration and add more ticks thus making the dot do more damage or does it just make the duration longer by lengthening out the time in between ticks? If it just lengthens the time that is pointless.

In GW2, all "dot's" tick at the same rate, once per second. The longer they last, the more damage they will do unless the target has such low xp that a single burst would be enough to kill them. So, for anything that is an elite or harder, you want long-lasting conditions. For anything else, you are better off with power anyhow. That is why all condi builds you see today max condi duration first and then follow with condi damage second.

EDIT:Trapper is garbage for us. We don't have traps....Afflicted/krait is a much better choice because it directly affects our main condi which is bleed.

This is simply not true. The point of nightmare/trapper is to take two trapper and four nightmare for the condi duration, not all six of either one of them. As to the conditions that a rev can apply? On crit, they apply torment, on torment, they apply poison (on a 10s internal cool down). On the mace/axe weapons, you also apply a LOT of burning in addition to the torment (mace two can keep up a fire field as long as its cooldown). With shortbow, you get a couple skills with bleed, one with torment, and two more with burn. That means you have three significant conditions that do damage. Of those, bleed does the least damage!
  • Burn is a lot more bursty and does more damage with shorter duration.
  • Bleed is very easy to stack but does not do a lot of damage on a stack-to-stack basis.
  • Torment now has the same base damage as bleed but the added damage if a target moves, making it the best of the two.
  • Poison is just an extra we kinda ignore.

I get what your saying but there is a small problem with it all.

Criting with a Rev does not apply torment. Criting with a rev with the corruption line gives a CHANCE to apply torment and that is only a 33% chance.

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@Ninjion.6804 said:I'm having a hard time choosing between Sudden Reversal (roar that knocks down whenever I break stun) and Heartpiercer (short bow skills pierce and bleeds last longer) for a WvW build. Overall I'm sure the second one is better but that roar would be so fun to use on annoying Thieves.

I think the problem with that is, barring outside stun-breaks, all we have is legend swap, right?

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@Ninjion.6804 said:I'm having a hard time choosing between Sudden Reversal (roar that knocks down whenever I break stun) and Heartpiercer (short bow skills pierce and bleeds last longer) for a WvW build. Overall I'm sure the second one is better but that roar would be so fun to use on annoying Thieves.

I am not a WvW player but i have been doing some SPvP lately. I would look at it this way.

IF you are a roamer. The piercing worthless. Unless you happen to run into the zerg. So in that case the reversal is better.

If you are in a zerg the pierce I think would be better. In a zerg fight it is chaos. I would think you would want to do as much damage as possible before going down yourself. So the pierce would do that better. But the stun could also be good if it hits more than 1 enemy.

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@Pompeia.5483 said:

@AMessiah.9401 said:What I am not sure if it will work (but really want to) is this
. It gives perma protection and about 90% alacrity uptime, but what will make or break it is how powerful the elite will be (as it scales with your healing power for the heals and power for the damage)

I am pretty sure the alacrity uptime is less than you think. You get 6s from the super expensive f4 that eats up 40% of your energy or the tablet skill is 3s per 20 energy and no cooldown (no change from before, in other words). At an energy recharge rate of 5% per second, you are getting an initial burst of 6s, then you wait 2s for 3s more, then another 4s for another 3s... repeating, which is 75% max after the initial burst. But, you are not going to be doing anything else for your team but auto-attacking and camping that tablet skill (if you move the tablet, you lost alacrity uptime!). Unless they change those numbers, chrono will never be replaced for providing alacrity.

Instead, you should focus on the healing aspect of a support rev and forget about the alacrity unless it happens along in your need to burst heal.For example:

You could with this rotation: [Ventari] 5 Natural harmonies [Kalla] Orders from above, then anything else until legend swap (you can get either 2 summons or 1 summon and some seconds of the elite, or just the elite). You won't have alacrity on the first two seconds of Ventari (maybe 1 of kalla), which gives you around 10 ~ 15% of downtime.

Of course you probably want to do other stuff with ventari, but the "max uptime" is not that bad

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@dchsknight.3042 said:

@Pompeia.5483 said:I wanted to edit the previous post but now I do not have permission? Weird... Sorry for the triple post but there is just no way to delete/merge the other two :(

@dchsknight.3042 said:

@Ertrak.9506 said:I would recommend switching that carrion over to viper other wise youre not maxing out your condition durations. Same for the berserker runes to nightmare/ trapper

Are you sure? here is my reasoning and you can tell me what you think. I am also not countering you point to argue I really want to dive into Renegade so learning as much as possible.

With berserkers it gives a flat 5% condition damage increase. I feel it is a better trade off as your condis would be hitting that much harder. I mean your pretty much going to be keeping up the condi naturally. With the might stacks that keep going up your condition damage will just ramp up.

AND from my experince from the game that shall not be named, a dot that ticks faster is better dps than a dot that ticks longer for the same amount of damage.

Does Condition duration extended the duration and add more ticks thus making the dot do more damage or does it just make the duration longer by lengthening out the time in between ticks? If it just lengthens the time that is pointless.

In GW2, all "dot's" tick at the same rate, once per second. The longer they last, the more damage they will do unless the target has such low xp that a single burst would be enough to kill them. So, for anything that is an elite or harder, you want long-lasting conditions. For anything else, you are better off with power anyhow. That is why all condi builds you see today max condi duration first and then follow with condi damage second.

EDIT:Trapper is garbage for us. We don't have traps....Afflicted/krait is a much better choice because it directly affects our main condi which is bleed.

This is simply not true. The point of nightmare/trapper is to take two trapper and four nightmare for the condi duration, not all six of either one of them. As to the conditions that a rev can apply? On crit, they apply torment, on torment, they apply poison (on a 10s internal cool down). On the mace/axe weapons, you also apply a LOT of burning in addition to the torment (mace two can keep up a fire field as long as its cooldown). With shortbow, you get a couple skills with bleed, one with torment, and two more with burn. That means you have three significant conditions that do damage. Of those, bleed does the least damage!
  • Burn is a lot more bursty and does more damage with shorter duration.
  • Bleed is very easy to stack but does not do a lot of damage on a stack-to-stack basis.
  • Torment now has the same base damage as bleed but the added damage if a target moves, making it the best of the two.
  • Poison is just an extra we kinda ignore.

I get what your saying but there is a small problem with it all.

Criting with a Rev does not apply torment. Criting with a rev with the corruption line gives a CHANCE to apply torment and that is only a 33% chance.

You have much to learn Young one. With the amount of times some skills hit on rev, the 33% chance to apply torment triggers frequently. These builds you are arguing against have had many tests since raiding came out. Which is why Pompeia's suggest and advice is correct. The amount of torment you can put out on rev is crazy if done right. Also you 100% take corruption if you are running condi. Otherwise you are throwing out your condi dps out the door and being borderline worthless.

At the end of the day, its your character play how you feel but try to understand proven suggestions.Love you long time and have a good one.

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Reposting from the Renegade build thread in the previous forum http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vlAQNApXlnXMjcNDlNjtND2ND8NjFNlqdBCgI4PILykMtDChSA-jBiAQBA4BAYTlgR7UA8gjEAEV/BkK/A0+DAUfQAgDACo+6rvepAWUvF-ePvE Viper's Renegade. Differs from the standard line only in its use of Mad King Runes + Wrought Iron Will for Soulcleave bursting and boons; and in using Sigil of Perception + 4 infusions for 100% crit chance. Other legend will change between Jalis and Mallyx depending on situation. Uses a frost gun in PvE for maximum Soulcleave devastation. Devastation is used over Invocation for the ferocity buff to allies, the vulnerability on crit and the lifedrain on hit.

Regarding Vindication vs Lasting Legacy: it depends on whether you have anyone else supplying you might and on whether the Citadel Orders receive a buff. I think players may swap between them as the situation demands.

I'm also considering an "angry healer" build that uses Ventari/Kalla and combines high healing power with good damage, but the gear doesn't yet exist to make it work. If Marshal's gear gave ferocity instead of vitality and Sigil of Misery existed in PvE I could probably do it.

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Power POWER ftw# because I CAN

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQJArKnsICVohNoBUrhlcjqeVr1btMAStWD9HWiZA-TBSAABbq+T0PAgLVCu+CDfp8zr9B+TPAAnAASBsouK-e

I try hammer and power because I often use power shiro build but glint is to defensiv, lets switch with KallaI got realy excited after using this in beta times because many ppl doesnt expect hammer rev , and you wont die as fast as with shortbow

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