Does the Kaineng meta event need adjustments?

[Luthan.5236]

Just curious. I myself do not really need nerfs. Not playing EoD that much and Kaineng is the map I play the least. I only rarely am there when the meta is active. And only did it once (completed with success).

But for the statuettes at the trading post I noticed something weird. The prices for Seitung one and the Echovald one are low - easy meta events and completed most of the time. (Though I only joined for Echovald for the last step most of the time - cause a lot of other minor achievements in that map. :D) Dragon's End is considered the hardest.

But it has that summoning stone (selling for about 9 gold ... 8.xx after TP ffees) - which is a good incentive (reward) ... I guess. That is why the statuette there was cheaper (more people doing that meta and therefore a higher supply of that statuette on the market).

Was 40 (Dragon's End) silver vs 60 silver (Kaineng) ... I think. For some time. Last time I checked the Kaineng one was at around 1 gold and a few silvers. Seems like not many people are doing this meta?

Should there be more incentives (better rewards, more achievements? ) - or the meta being made easier? (I heard about bugs with it getting stuck. And/or when I played it back then that one time one of the escord NPCs was distracted too easily ... fighting mobs off the direct route commander requesting to use speed buffs on the NPC. In German forums I just found - from Google looking for threads cause hte forum search is not that good - that someone complained about the event failing cause a lot of people were waiting at the end boss area ... waiting for others to progress the event and to just join for the end boss.)

What is your opinion? Actually looking for opinions - since I have not really playd it that much. Just noticed this from the statuettes and was wondering. Opinions of people doing this more regularly are very welcome here. Thought this might be refreshing after all the Dragon's End meta complaint threads in the past - to discuss about this other meta event.

Edited June 12, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[Astralporing.1957]

56 minutes ago, Luthan.5236 said:

Should there be more incentives (better rewards, more achievements? ) - or the meta being made easier?

Probably both. If it's only one of those, then the changes would have to be significantly bigger.

[Luthan.5236]

Yeah. I think that would be best - for the reasons you mentioned. Small changes on several ends would be better than a big change. I think there are no other achievements associated to the previous steps of the meta? While the other maps have stuff like "Jade Sea Warfare" for Dragons' End. The Echovald one has one simlar as well I think. And Seitung has some for the small pre-bosses after the cannons.

Then maybe minor adjustmends to the rewards. And minor adjustments to the steps before the endboss?

Edited June 12, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[Khisanth.2948]

Easier? It is already pretty easy ...

Stalling bugs should be fixed of course.

As for rewards. Seitung has the ambergris. Echovald has the back item. DE has the summoning stone. Kaineng has ... ???

[Scheherazade.7148]

I did this meta yesterday, prime time on a weekend. There should have been several groups up on LFG at that time but only one popped about 5 minutes before. I think part of the issue ( on top of the crap rewards) is that it can fail early on if the 7 pre event areas are not completed in time, you can get away with 6/7 but people are not getting organised across the map early enough, maybe they arnt highlighted as obvious areas of focus on the map? maybe the timer should be a little longer? It also seems to take longer overall than the other 2 'easy' ones, i think it was 40 minutes.

 

They really did this map wrong, it was full of people fishing and no one doing any events before the time popped. It's dead 3 months after release.

[Omega.6801]

10 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Probably both. If it's only one of those, then the changes would have to be significantly bigger.

I don't think the meta is too hard. It uses mechanics that are tought throughout EoD(unlike DE for example) and it's not that hard of a DPS check.
The reason I've heard from ppl who are commanding meta trains and the likes is, that it's just too long for what rewards it provides. Maybe skipping one of the phases(preferably the "Defend the repair teams" events after the labs have been secured) could help. But better rewards would definitely also help. But that's a thing with most of the new content.

[Silent.6137]

5 hours ago, Scheherazade.7148 said:

I did this meta yesterday, prime time on a weekend. There should have been several groups up on LFG at that time but only one popped about 5 minutes before. I think part of the issue ( on top of the crap rewards) is that it can fail early on if the 7 pre event areas are not completed in time, you can get away with 6/7 but people are not getting organised across the map early enough, maybe they arnt highlighted as obvious areas of focus on the map? maybe the timer should be a little longer? It also seems to take longer overall than the other 2 'easy' ones, i think it was 40 minutes.

 

They really did this map wrong, it was full of people fishing and no one doing any events before the time popped. It's dead 3 months after release.

One of the problem with the metas for EoD, excluding DE, is that they are too close together. Kaineng's Blackout meta occurs right after Seitung's Aetherblade meta. Hence, often groups are formed in Kaineng after Seitung's is done. Similarly, Echovald's Junkyard meta may not be filled until after Kaineng's.

Seitung's usually takes about 25 minutes so there's 5 minutes to head off to Kaineng. Kaineng's usually takes from 25 to 35 minutes while Echovald's starts at XX:30 (Kaineng starts at XX:00).

I do tag squad for the metas at Seitung and Kaineng fairly often and have never had a problem to get a full squad. Regardless of time of day (NA daytime) or how much time they are formed before the events.

Not exactly sure of pre-events requirements for Kaineng but I think 5/7 is sufficient. (Had a 5/7 Pre and success unless it became a 6/7 at last second).

51 minutes ago, lokh.2695 said:

I don't think the meta is too hard. It uses mechanics that are tought throughout EoD(unlike DE for example) and it's not that hard of a DPS check.
The reason I've heard from ppl who are commanding meta trains and the likes is, that it's just too long for what rewards it provides. Maybe skipping one of the phases(preferably the "Defend the repair teams" events after the labs have been secured) could help. But better rewards would definitely also help. But that's a thing with most of the new content.

The rewards can definitely be improved upon to attract more players for the metas. As for the difficulties, Seitung's and Kaineng's are already very easy to complete.

Edited June 12, 2022 by Silent.6137

[Sobx.1758]

What exactly is so hard about this meta that it needs to be made easier?

[Luthan.5236]

 

16 hours ago, Scheherazade.7148 said:

I think part of the issue ( on top of the crap rewards) is that it can fail early on if the 7 pre event areas are not completed in time, you can get away with 6/7 but people are not getting organised across the map early enough, maybe they arnt highlighted as obvious areas of focus on the map? maybe the timer should be a little longer? It also seems to take longer overall than the other 2 'easy' ones, i think it was 40 minutes.

 

They really did this map wrong, it was full of people fishing and no one doing any events before the time popped. It's dead 3 months after release.

I think it does not need all the 7? But this isn't really explained anywhere in the wiki. When I was there it were only 5 or less I think. And we still could complete it. Maybe completing more will give more time for the later sections? It is a bit weird yeah. And I guess fishing is interesting for the map. I noticed for myself that this is the map where I go the least - out of the Canthan maps. Lowest amount of writs I have are the ones for this map. There are also no repeatble achievements for completing events. Like Seitung has some. And hard to move around cause of the vertical setup at some parts. Trying to avoid it. More general repeatable map achievements might increase the amount of players.

 

10 hours ago, Silent.6137 said:

One of the problem with the metas for EoD, excluding DE, is that they are too close together. Kaineng's Blackout meta occurs right after Seitung's Aetherblade meta. Hence, often groups are formed in Kaineng after Seitung's is done. Similarly, Echovald's Junkyard meta may not be filled until after Kaineng's.

Seitung's usually takes about 25 minutes so there's 5 minutes to head off to Kaineng. Kaineng's usually takes from 25 to 35 minutes while Echovald's starts at XX:30 (Kaineng starts at XX:00).

I do tag squad for the metas at Seitung and Kaineng fairly often and have never had a problem to get a full squad. Regardless of time of day (NA daytime) or how much time they are formed before the events.

Ah yes. That is a problem I guess. Do not think the gap between Seitung and Kaining should be a problem. People could just skip Seitung every now and then. Echovald also is not that hard - not a problem to join there late if Kaineng takes longer.

But .... with the summoning stone from Dragon's End and that one taking long. Basically the whole 2 hour slot is taken by that one. I noticed 15-30 minutes being early is not enough. Got a lot of fails. But when being about 45 minutes early and waiting (while preparations are up) - I got the last 3 weeks (played each week one time - only once cause it is so long) a success on Dragon's End.

I wonder if this could be changed to make it into something like Kourna (Gandara) - where you could complete events or stuff - to progress a bar that makes the Brotherhood angry and making them attack the infrastructure. With the meta being made a bit faster (not easier boss-difficulty-wise just faster to get there) and happening more often (if  a lot of people do the events). That also could counter the people doing "only fishing" mentioned above by some guy where I also said somethign to that post: There are no repeatable achievements for the normal events like in Seitung. (Dragon's End has the preparations. And Echovald a lot of small achievements with masteries tied to events.)

Then adjusting the rewards maybe.

 

7 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

What exactly is so hard about this meta that it needs to be made easier?

It is not about making it "easier": Maybe faster - and the stalling bugs someone mentioend. To make it more interesting for people to play it. Though ... I guess in the end the trading post price of the statuette might just balance this. Supply and demand - the market. 😄 If that price goes up even more then this will be the reward incentive. 😄 Ha ha. For 1g i'd still buy it though. Maybe if it is at 2-3g ...

Edited June 13, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[Eekasqueak.7850]

Could remove that part about just doing repeats of events that aren't unique to the meta honestly just so it's less repetitive. 

[Vaen.2605]

Cut the events at the start, they're unnecessary padding.  If it starts at the labs, then you have a perfectly fine 15-20 minute meta.

 

Improve the rewards too, but that's a common theme across EoD.

[Orion Templar.4589]

I'm not a fan of the pre-events for this meta. They're just a bit too long in my opinion.  If some of the pre-events could be removed or shortened to make this meta less of a time-investment (for the rewards given) I think I'd probably play it more often.

[Alaia Skyhawk.5064]

Kaineng meta, the pre events with the 7 zones literally mean nothing in the overall scheme of it. The lab events start regardless of how many zones were stabilised. The 7 zones correspond to 7 teleporter destinations. Failing a zone disables the teleporter for it. Which honestly isn't a big deal when the main event is just following 2 escorts and gathering at a central point for the boss. You can bunch people at the 2 labs while the pre events are running, then just do the defence/escorts/boss as normal.

[ChronoPinoyX.7923]

Less making it easier, more making it shorter. Compared to DE, this Meta is easy to do, but absolutely boring when you spend most of your time just standing there

[SinisterSlay.6973]

What's worse is when your not doing the meta but every mode of travel is disabled. That's so frustrating.

[ugrakarma.9416]

The problem inst about easiness or rewards, but a spreaded meta in a counter-intuitive map to navigate, is a bad design.. even TD meta ins't this way.

 

This feel the most EoD rushed meta, a last minute work.

[Astralporing.1957]

59 minutes ago, ugrakarma.9416 said:

The problem inst about easiness or rewards, but a spreaded meta in a counter-intuitive map to navigate, is a bad design.. even TD meta ins't this way.

 

This feel the most EoD rushed meta, a last minute work.

Well, Kaineng likely is the worst map of the expansion. And by far.

[Silent.6137]

7 hours ago, Alaia Skyhawk.5064 said:

Kaineng meta, the pre events with the 7 zones literally mean nothing in the overall scheme of it. The lab events start regardless of how many zones were stabilised. The 7 zones correspond to 7 teleporter destinations. Failing a zone disables the teleporter for it. Which honestly isn't a big deal when the main event is just following 2 escorts and gathering at a central point for the boss. You can bunch people at the 2 labs while the pre events are running, then just do the defence/escorts/boss as normal.

That's what I thought but wasn't sure about it. Teleporters are very useful but definitely not necessary. Only used it to teleport to central Power Station after all sub-stations are secured.

 

If the Pre is eliminated, then the meta will be about 25 minutes from start at Lab to the end. And there will be no overlap with Echovald's meta.

[SinisterSlay.6973]

14 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Well, Kaineng likely is the worst map of the expansion. And by far.

I actually disagree with this. DE is. It's a map that could have been cool, but it's stuck in a long failing meta.

But Kaineng feels so empty. Why is there not a Griffon master in this?

I like the city, I like how relaxed to explore it is. But every time this meta is happening the map becomes the worst. You have to exclusively travel with Griffon to get anywhere.

Edited June 14, 2022 by SinisterSlay.6973

[Silent.6137]

Just like TD after you learned where all the wallows lead to, it's fast to get around Kaineng with the zip lines, stairs and teleporters. But few will take the time (or waste time) to learn. Not criticizing anyone. That's just the way it is.

I ran around each block when I first got there, noted where the stairs are and marked them with TacO. After doing map completions on 10 of my alts, getting around Kaineng is no longer a mystery.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Silent.6137

[Luthan.5236]

The problem is that with most of the people having Skyscales (unless you are a new player starting with EoD) ... will not really try to use/learn that stuff.

I find myself using only waypoints and Skyscale most of the time. Of course it would have been a different experience had I chosen to play without the mount first. (Which I did for the pre-Skyscale maps cause I unlocked all stuff in release order.)

I do not think there is enough incentive to learn - just maybe for the meta when you might need/want to use teleporters. Barely used any. I think they are not even on the minimap. (Didn't the raptor transporters on Seitung have a mini map icon?) If they had  icons they might be easier to find - easier to learn and not forget.

The way it is now ... you'd need to explore the map regularly and slowly - each parts. And having an incentive to do so. (Like ... fun maybe? But the events are not really that fun. And it seems people are not too often on the map cause less event achievements than with other maps.) Also I try to avoid third party stuff like TacO (my computer is too old anyways lol).

Tangled Depths it actually worked. Cause there are fun events. (The small outpost events chains.) And when I did stuff in order of release I was there with only gliding - no mounts.

So ... while you can claim that being able to move around easier (and learning this first) - can make the map more fun ... for me it just goes the other weay: I don't want to learn it cause the map is not fun. Mount-disabled events where you had to use certain rountes with the porter might be fun. But if the meta actually disables the teleporters it is just more incentive to use the mount.

Maybe generate an electric storm that annoys animals and disables mounts ... instead. Lol. 😄

Edited June 14, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[Astralporing.1957]

2 hours ago, SinisterSlay.6973 said:

I actually disagree with this. EOD is.

I guess that's subjective. For me DE is an overall way better map, the only two issues i have with it is how long and overtuned the main meta is, and few lanterns for map recompletion being locked behind succesful meta.

2 hours ago, SinisterSlay.6973 said:

But Kaineng feels so empty.

That is what makes Kaineng the worst map for me. It's empty and boring. It truly looks unfinished. Not to mention it seems so clean and sterile, it lacks the soul. Which makes it even more bland.

 

[ugrakarma.9416]

10 hours ago, Silent.6137 said:

Teleporters are very useful but definitely not necessary. Only used it to teleport to central Power Station after all sub-stations are secured.

teleporters are hard to see, and dont' have the name above object like batteries and other jade tech objects. also green-gold colors tends to blend/camouflage. i wish they revisit them.

Edited June 14, 2022 by ugrakarma.9416

[Dante.1508]

I would say cut pre events in all EoD maps.. they are needless filler and they make people not want to bother.. Also add more way points in Kaineng, the distance hinders bothering..

On a similar note make all EoD events scale with players, if you don't they will stay not done, i avoid 99% of EoD events now because the maps are so dead and i cannot even complete them solo.. also the rewards aren't worth even bothering with.

Edited June 14, 2022 by Dante.1508

[Silent.6137]

46 minutes ago, Dante.1508 said:

On a similar note make all EoD events scale with players, if you don't they will stay not done, i avoid 99% of EoD events now because the maps are so dead and i cannot even complete them solo.. also the rewards aren't worth even bothering with.

Every single event are scaled on EoD. If you can't solo a champ, that's because they are not meant to be soloed. No different from any other maps.

As for the rewards, yes, I'd like better rewards. Who wouldn't? But they are no worse than any rewards on any other maps. In fact, farming on those maps are often quite a lot better than on most maps.