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Harbinger These Harbinger changes are aimed to clear the sheer number of conditions to make it easier to cleanse against them and tone down their sustain a tiny bit. -Pistol "2" nolonger ap

BLADESWORN 1- Fix the bugged ICD on stab; Dragonscale Defense should trigger stab once every 60s, it currently has no ICD. Ideally, the trait would pulse resolution and prot (so you don't get destro

I want underpowered specs to get buffed before any nerf.

Posted (edited)

Harbinger

These Harbinger changes are aimed to clear the sheer number of conditions to make it easier to cleanse against them and tone down their sustain a tiny bit.

-Pistol "2" nolonger applies Vulnerability. ->a direct nerf. less %damage cuz Vuln is missing, and easier to cleanse.

-Pistol "3" no longer applies Poison. -> (previously it had 1 second poison (roughly 150 damage) God knows why.. i can only think to make it harder to cleanse the weakness...

-Ultimate Elixir no longer applies every condition. -> It now only applies Torment,Poison,Bleed,Burn. (damage should remain roughly the same, but gives people a chance to cleanse.) currently landing a eliteelixir is almost always a kill.

-reduced the healing per blightstack on you by roughly 10%.

-Healingelixir increased the cooldown from 20 seconds to 24. (20 seconds on a almost 10k heal... that also deal powerdamage and applys poison is MILES stronger than any other healing skill currently in the game)

 

Willbender

-Righteous instincts  40% critchance bonus -> 30% critchance bonus

-Vanguard tactics  2s prot  3s resolutin on teleport -> 1 s prot 2s resolution no resistance on f3

-Renewed Focus 100% recharge on virtues -> 50% of remaining Cooldown reset, when slotting the Willbender elitespec.

 

Edited by Sahne.6950
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3 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Harbinger

These Harbinger changes are aimed to clear the sheer number of conditions to make it easier to cleanse against them.

-Pistol "2" nolonger applies Vulnerability. ->a direct nerf. less %damage cuz Vuln is missing, and easier to cleanse.

-Pistol "3" no longer applies Poison. -> (previously it had 1 second poison (roughly 150 damage) God knows why.. i can only think to make it harder to cleanse the weakness...

-Ultimate Elixir no longer applies every condition. -> It now only applies Torment,Poison,Bleed,Burn. (damage should remain roughly the same, but gives people a chance to cleanse.

-reduced the healing per blightstack on you by roughly 10%.

 

Willbender

-Righteous instincts  40% critchance bonus -> 30% critchance bonus

-Vanguard tactics  2s prot  3s resolutin 3s resistance on teleport -> 1 s prot 2s resolution NO RESISTANCE ANYMORE (Willbender being almost permanently unaffected by Weakness is just a straightup joke.)

-Renewed Focus 100% recharge on virtues -> 50% of remaining Cooldown reset, when slotting the Willbender elitespec. 

 

The rest is pretty fair and square. ofc they could buff underperforming classes... but lets not ask for to much! these 2 specs are the elephants in the room and should be adressed.

 

The resistance is just on casting f3. Demanding nerfs when u dont even know what things do makes u look like u have no clue... (the trait gave resistance on port during beta insead of protection only during the first beta)

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Alt.3946 said:

 

The resistance is just on casting f3. Demanding nerfs when u dont even know what things do makes u look like u have no clue... (the trait gave resistance on port during beta insead of protection only during the first beta)

okey you got me i missread that trait. thought it still works as in first beta... but with protection ontop xD

Edited by Sahne.6950
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In my opinion, a couple simple skill splits for Harbinger would bring it into balance:

  1. Skill split Harbinger shroud #5 to be 30s CD in pvp and wvw. 20s CD is too strong.
  2. Elite Harbinger elixir needs to skill split from 90s CD in pvp and wvw to 120s CD. 90s is too strong for this skill.

Willbender also only needs a couple changes:

  1. Sword Off-Hand skills should require a target and line of sight. They run too easily with these skills.
  2. Go ahead and revert the pvp skill split that granted RI +40% for just pvp. +40% is too strong.

Specter shroud needs a cut:

  1. Lower the maximum health pool for the Specter shroud or increase the degeneration rate.

 

These are imo the top 3 things that need to be changed ^

 

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Whilst I absolutely agree Harbinger needs the heaviest nerf/balance right now and Willbender to a lesser extent needs some nerfs to....

I think a lot of people underistimate how Spectre will be an immortal monster (if Spectre is untouched balance wise) once Harb and Willbender are nerfed since they somewhat keep Spectres in check at the moment. In addition to bunker Vindicator which is also very tough to down currently, probably the best side noder in pvp.

Edited by Poledra Val.1490
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Just fix Vital Draw from Harbinger Shroud. Hard CC that ticks and you can't see, it's often unstunbreakable... and once you're floating it's gg. Also has a 20 second cooldown for some reason. Elites that do the 3 ticks of hard CC AND you can see on the ground, have upwards to 90 seconds cooldown.

Just change the skill from 3 tick of cc to 1 for the 3 seconds so people have a counter play.

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BLADESWORN
1
Fix the bugged ICD on stab; Dragonscale Defense should trigger stab once every 60s, it currently has no ICD. Ideally, the trait would pulse resolution and prot (so you don't get destroyed while charging your DT), while the stab would be moved to Triggerguard with a reduced cd, make it 25s IDK (so you can make a conscious decision to protect THIS ONE dragon trigger, instead of having the game decide it for you when you don't need it, once per minute)
2Fix CD on healing skill; Interrupting Combat Stimulant should send it on 4s cd instead of no cd at all
3Make it less spammy; raise the ammo recharge time on all gunsaber skills by some 25%
4Give it cleave; Give Blooming Fire a wider AoE, with explosions coming off immediately instead of having a delay; this would turn this skill into a proper cleave
5Rework the cannonball; Artillery Slash should get 25% less damage, but apply 10 stacks of vuln; this way a single hit won't destroy you, but it builds up for further burst (and failing to dodge a barrage of artillery strikes would be really dangerous)
6- Add variety to burst skills; Give a proper cd to burst skills, otherwise Dragon Slash-Boost is just the superior choice in every case
7- Offhand pistol; offhand pistol is competing with shield. I really wonder why nobody uses it? Maybe give Gunstinger a very quick evade and a short daze, so that it has some defences to actually compete with shield, otherwise there's just no reason to use this thing, ever.

It would also probably be a good time to look at Might Makes Right, but first let's see how this goes.

VINDICATOR
Every skill is a :JustDodge:; fat nerf to both the damage coeffiecients and the self healing. Probably the stab on Reaver's Rage needs to be looked at; revenant gets very explosive damage, and the counter is supposed to be conditions\CC at the right moment; this thing takes all the strenght of revenant, and removes all of the weaknesses. It just doesn't die.

WILLBENDER
Probably just reducing damage by 30% would help
That being said, it is my opinion it should be mostly single target oriented instead of having access to such insane cleave. Lore-wise, this thing is more an assassin than anything else. I still question the whole design of this spec; it does exactly the same thing herald does, in exactly the same way. Either willbender is stronger -and herald is useless-, or herald is stronger -and willbender is useless. Having 2 specs covering the exact same role with exactly the same tools is not good; one denies the other.

Of course, making it single target would make it compete directly with thief, which is also a problem, but thief has access to stealth, making it at least slightly different. It would still be a problem nonetheless.

UNTAMED
This spec is just unfinished. Pets need different unleashed skills depending on their nature, ambushes are just a bandage covering the fact it was clear from the very beginning that each weapon was supposed to get the hammer treatment (that is, having a whole other weaponset). We could also have a look at gs, because the thing is way stronger than it should be imho.

Not a fan of specs dropping moving bubbles all over the place, especially when one of the specs -virtuoso- has nothing except projectiles.

MECHANIST
1Revert shield nerf; it's hurting all engi specs, because the OH weapon choice is very poor. Whatever's the problem with mechanist, it needs to be fixed on mechanist.
2Remove the port; in no way, shape or form an engineer should have access to any shadowstep, let alone a 1200 range port which also cleanse and also passively increases movement speed and also breaks stun on a 30s cd without counting alacrity. This thing is the one reason that made mechanists oppressive to fight, because they could just escape every +1\death situation without consequences; from there you just kite with the passive movement speed increase while the healing signet keeps on ticking. If you need a way to control the pet -which is a spec mechanic- add it as a mechanic on some F skill, instead of tying it to an optional utility
3Give synergy with core mechanics; toolbelt skills should be usable when mech is not around; it's been suggested before and I totally stand by this
4Full signet shouldn't be mandatory; signets retaining their effects when on CD needs to go, otherwise (with the loss of toolbelt) they become way too necessary to run anything else (other than possibly elixir s, I guess)
5Mace shouldn't be mandatory; who thought it was a good idea to tie golem skills to mace skills? What if a mechanist wanted to use something different? That is definitely a bad call.


SPECTER
1Remove some self sustain; Consume Shadows is slightly too strong and saves specters even when they make mistakes they shouldn't
2Give it support; Shallow Grave with 300s cd is just too much. It works like a res signet, give it the cd of a res signet, some 120s and call it a day.

It was supposed to be a support\teamfighter, it's not really supporting anyone in PvP; damage with those scepter coefficients is just that strong. As a chrono main, I feel slightly offended by thieves getting access to wells (and a grav well, on top of that) and much more alac than me.

HARBINGER
1Add counterplay to the heavy hitters; give 3/4s cast time to Elixir of Ambition\Elixir of Promise, to allow rupting\dodging and what not.
2Nerf the machinegun; give slight nerf to power damage on Tainted Bolts. And please make it reflectable.
320s cd grav well is just too much; slight increase cd on Vital Draw, and please. 3s float applied once; not 1s float applied 3 times.
4Add optionsHarbinger's Shroud is basically a Photon Forge; it shouldn't prevent utilities usage
5Some self-sustain on core necro should go; this spec is supposed to be glassy and it's definitely NOT glassy.

Necro on a whole needs a much bigger rethinking than this, but these simple changes would be immediately helpful, and harbinger is a victim of this mindset (think about it; do necromancers REALLY need another big teamfighting spec?). It is also my opinion elixirs should be single-target unless traited, and the spec should be much more roaming oriented (I would add more movement - leave damage as it is - remove survivability\AoE, to make it a true single target roamer)

VIRTUOSO
Let's recap the recent buffs
1- 33% less cd on Bladeturn Requiem
2- 15% less cd on Twin Blade Restoration; the skill now cleanses 2 conditions instead of the previous 1
3- 20-30% buff on gs skills
4- 30% buff on dagger skills
5- 33% less cd on Blade Renewal, making it the invuln with the second shortest cd in the game (after Fortify)
6- 33% less cd on Psychic Force; 30s cd for a stunbreak + AoE knockback + fury + 5 might
7- 50% less cd on Signet of Humility
8- Projectiles from Bladesong Harmony now track opponents (unlisted change, I know, but trust me they do; devs usually don't note it when projectiles change their tracking)
9- Every block\dodge grants 3 blades (which interact with Signet of the Ether; a single scepter block can heal for almost 1200 HP) and also the bladesongs become unblockable

All those buffs weren't enough to make any mesmer spec even close to relevant -not meta, just relevant-; that's how dog mesmer in general (and virtuoso in particular) currently is. If it was on me, CmC should be sent back to streaming his full signet ele on Twitch or whatever that was.

However. The spec is dog, but it's dangerously close to becoming obnoxious to face, other than to play; kittening around at 1200 range, poking with 0 combo potential, every mistake saved with some out-of-jail button (which mesmer has a good abundance of), every block healing for an insane amount until you get THAT ONE 10k bladesong harmony after 15 minutes; can't combo anything (the spec has quickness, but quickness won't work on bladesongs\psionic\dagger skills because the bulk of the "time it takes before the skill does something" is not tied to any animation; it's either portals forming in the background, projectiles from f2 slowly floating behind your back and what not), can't secure anything. The spec was literally designed to be one of those buzzing mosquitoes in the room that keeps on stinging you; it will never pose any real threat, but you just can't get rid of it.

I said it in the past, I'll say it again: the team leader who approved this design needs to be fired, immediately. His salary should be given to the vfx team instead; that's the most aesthetic spec in the game, and it's not even close.

CATALYST
I feel for you, fellow elementalists. I really feel for you.

Edited by Terrorhuz.4695
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9 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

BLADESWORN

1Fix the bugged ICD on stab; Dragonscale Defense should trigger stab once every 60s, it currently has no ICD. Ideally, the trait would pulse resolution and prot (so you don't get destroyed while charging your DT), while the stab would be moved to Triggerguard with a reduced cd, make it 25s IDK (so you can make a conscious decision to protect THIS ONE dragon trigger, instead of having the game decide it for you when you don't need it, once per minute)

I believe it has the 8 sec CD on the stab application. Haven't PvPed with BsW in a while. Spec is uplayble without Stab, good suggestion though. Trigger guard with 3 charges and a count recharge of 20 sec allows for 3 on demand stacks of stab per minute, not broken, easily interruptible, can still make sure a full charge goes off. 

Quote

2Fix CD on healing skill; Interrupting Combat Stimulant should send it on 4s cd instead of no cd at all. 

Didn't know of this interaction, solution is to keep is as strong as it is or buff it's healing a bit and remove the ammo count. 

Quote

3Make it less spammy; raise the ammo recharge time on all gunsaber skills by some 25%. 

No the solution to the spam. Tactical Reload enables the spam. Rework tactical reload to be a buff elite option (something like stab, prot, quickness to help with dragon triggers) or make it only affect Armament skills/weapon skills. Shoutspan must not exist in this form. 

Quote

4Give it cleave; Give Blooming Fire a wider AoE, with explosions coming off immediately instead of having a delay; this would turn this skill into a proper cleave. 

Agreed. Ideally with proper nerfs to the sustain and dmg of the spec, warriors have suggested a merge of the skill with it's underwater variant, where some dmg is sacrificed for a quick evade frame. 

Quote

5Rework the cannonball; Artillery Slash should get 25% less damage, but apply 10 stacks of vuln; this way a single hit won't destroy you, but it builds up for further burst (and failing to dodge a barrage of artillery strikes would be really dangerous). 

Yeah I have seen this skill hit like a truck. Fair trade-off. Nothing else comes to mind rn. 

Quote

6- Add variety to burst skills; Give a proper cd to burst skills, otherwise Dragon Slash-Boost is just the superior choice in every case.

Well, if anet gets their kitten together and make Slash 1 not to be jumped over or not reach enemies outside the angle of 180 degrees and fix the reach bugs and it's awful hitbox and speed, maybe Boost would not always be the best choice. 

Quote


It would also probably be a good time to look at Might Makes Right, but first let's see how this goes.

No, MMR nerfs will sentence all other warrior builds, including unnecessary nerfs to SpB and Core. If anything MMR is long due for a short buff, but even as of right now, it's good. Nothing from core is to be touched for the sake of BsW. 

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Things that should have better, more visible animations now have more distinct animations (*cough* harbringer shroud 5 and the elite elixir *cough*).

 

Necromancer can now disable that godawful color tint when going into shroud.

 

Slow has been removed from pvp. Willbender getting damage and/or mobility trims.

 

Mechanist no longer has traits that dictate what stats your mech inherits that are also connected to a skill, allowing them to build how they want and not have to worry about the blatantly superior stunbreak + cleanse + stab + prot skill also forcing the mech to inherit a stat nobody in spvp has anymore.

 

In a brilliant, beautiful series of events, anet somehow manages to rework deadeye a little bit in addition to shadow arts, the former no longer having stealth on dodge or capable of cleansing reveal, and the latter no longer rewarding stealth stacking.

 

Catalyst has something else to replace the horrid skills on hammer 3. Dear god please. They need to die.

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I would like to see core ele engi mesmer and warrior buffed, as well as druid and berserker. I know I'm vague, but at least they're gonna throw a bone to someone on the bottom of the barrel, right? ... right?

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11 minutes ago, Miss Pepper.5793 said:

Core engi is more than fine especially if you consider any buff there would be a buff to holo and that’s the last thing we want.

I mean, not a big engi fan, but def an enjoyer from time to time. 

Which line is not enabling Holo becoming OP? I mean, if you run nades you run explo, if you run prot you run elixirs. 

Then you got firearms, tools and inventions. 

I'd say some buffs to firearms for condi builds and some reworks like juggernaut (as to avoid scrapper abuse) and some buffs in tools might enable stronger core builds which will be more prone to pick these lines, whereas Holo for it's 2 roles is restricted to explosives/elixirs with the third line used mostly being inventions iirc. 

Now you may ask, well any buff in core buffs the spec right? I'd say not necessarily if the buffs are targeted to specific core builds that onky they can benefit from these changes, like OH pistol buffs, some condi buffs (condi holo is not a pick in pvp now is it), core gadgeteer buffs with something like mines for a sidenoder build (again assets that Holo will not be able to build for since it's roles resteict it to other options).

And I would gladly take buffs to elite toolbelts and a rework with turrets. I view turrets as less passive gameplay than many specs. Its all about identity, to play something that's worthwhile and fun. The reason why I really hope Banners and Spieits are reworked into something unique that can see play in competetive as well and breathe some fresh air in ranger and warrior. 

 

Engi is no different there imo. 

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All the problems with Bladesworn, both the healing that it can do, and the bad balancing (as in under tuning of Gunsaber, Armaments, and Pistol) is due to Tactical Reload entirely and it's imbalanced recharging of all ammo skills. We pointed out in the feedback thread that this and the original Lush Forest would lead to degenerate gameplay. We were right, but the only one of the two that got touched by Anet was Lush Forest.

I'd say change TR to fully load the charges for Dragon Trigger (not flow, the bullets), grant 4s of protection, resolution, resistance, and 2 stacks of stability for 4s. Lets you pop into DT immediately afterword if you want to, but also has utility in that you can get some defensive boons from it if that is all you need.

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12 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

All the problems with Bladesworn, both the healing that it can do, and the bad balancing (as in under tuning of Gunsaber, Armaments, and Pistol) is due to Tactical Reload entirely and it's imbalanced recharging of all ammo skills. We pointed out in the feedback thread that this and the original Lush Forest would lead to degenerate gameplay. We were right, but the only one of the two that got touched by Anet was Lush Forest.

I'd say change TR to fully load the charges for Dragon Trigger (not flow, the bullets), grant 4s of protection, resolution, resistance, and 2 stacks of stability for 4s. Lets you pop into DT immediately afterword if you want to, but also has utility in that you can get some defensive boons from it if that is all you need.

Pretty rad idea. Without the overabundance of  ammo utils too, pwrhaps there would be initiative to fix armaments into being useful team utility skills which warrior lacks, like projectile and movement denial as well as a great source of aoe stab via flow stabilizer. 

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58 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Pretty rad idea. Without the overabundance of  ammo utils too, pwrhaps there would be initiative to fix armaments into being useful team utility skills which warrior lacks, like projectile and movement denial as well as a great source of aoe stab via flow stabilizer. 

As much as I trash BSW, there is a solid foundation there for them to work off of. Whomever came up with the recharge all ammo idea got to see how it would play out, but it's as degenerate as was pointed out in the feedback thread.

 

But yeah, that change to TR, but with AoE boons. Flow Stabilizer with AoE stability and fury. BB needs to be centered on the warrior, or reflect (not both). Electric Fence needs to be 1200 range and immobilize on the initial hit and daze people who are crippled. Differentiate it from throw bolas by giving throw bolas a flip over skill to pull the target to you.

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I dunno where to even start.

 

Many of the EoD elites are over tuned, however, the issue is most of PoF and some of HoT elites got way over nerfed. I much rather see everything brought to WB and Harbinger level than having all EoD elites nerf. The game pace needs to be seriously increased. Damage needs to go up across the board, to prevent rez botting and make mistakes far more punishing.

 

The whole CC dealing no damage across the board is dumb. Some skills needed the damage and could have lived without the CC. Example, DH, LB. Skill 3 would have been fine with removing the CC. Removing the damage and adding 0.5 secs cast time made the skill kittening useless. There are tons of examples like that. Most warrior builds are currently CC machines that deal no damage. Essentially useless since most viable builds can deal a damage and have significant CC access.

 

the balance of stability, CC and boon rip was in a good place pre Feb 2020. In the current state we either need to limit CC access or improve stability access. The earlier is a better fit for the current meta.

 

skills that block or reflect projectiles need a major nerf. Preferably a limit on how many projectiles they can block/reflect. This maintains their effectiveness solo, but limit their use in team battles.
 

Rezzing needs a nerf. If damage is improved that may not be necessary.

 

Also, with 9 classes, 27 different elites, why the kitten only guardian has a competitive support build?!

 

Having said that, I am expecting very limited changes. As a guardian main, I expect will see some WB nerfs, which will mostly be a nerf to core dps, even though it is barely viable. FB, which half of its skills sitting are literally in place holder limbo, will be ignored, again. DH, which now has no viability with trapper runes nerf, will also see no changes. As result WB will remain the only competitive dps build, just a bit weaker, with core support remaining the only viable support… in the entire PvP. Same for all classes in a different forum. I would be impressed if Anet did anything beyond limited numbers adjustment. Even though pvp needs significant adjustments, maybe even an overhaul. 

 

In any case, pvp is kinda dead, so not much will change.

Edited by otto.5684
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