Black Lion Hunters Contract Didn't get delivery if I don't log in.

[Linken.6345]

3 hours ago, Friday.7864 said:

Congrats on having a stress free life where one of your main worries is logging into an MMO? 
 

Hey you can boot up the game after you put on the coffie/tea pot in the morning no stress at all.

4 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Sounds like the best way to do it is for it to count up the days you are away and deliver it as a package the next time you log in.

And as for the contrarian silliness about rewarding you for being away being such a ghastly and incomprehensible way to do things, the game already does that with birthday gifts. And in practice, what does it do? It doesn't incentivize you to not play, it encourages you to come back by giving you something cool to engage with as soon as you log in. What's the first thing that's gonna happen when you log in if you're away a while? You're going to wonder what to do because you've forgotten how a lot of stuff works. Stuff like this gives you something to do and a reason to stay. It's the opposite of how people are portraying it.

One thing of note is that birthday gifts are one time each year so that might be why they are an exception.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Linken.6345

[Rogue.8235]

5 hours ago, Friday.7864 said:

Sweetie, not everyone is as free as you to be able to log in daily. 

And it is not irrelevant if items have different functions to this degree. 

Don't really feel like reading the rest of  what you wrote, seems kinda... irrelevant. Have a nice day.

If you can't log in daily (like me), then you have more important things to worry about than video game rewards.  Even so, merely logging in without any further input is all that is needed to get these rewards.  It's less effort that home instance nodes, which require time to log into the home instance and gather.  Literally, just log in to a character and immediately exit the game, and you'll have gotten the contract rewards.

4 hours ago, Friday.7864 said:

Congrats on having a stress free life where one of your main worries is logging into an MMO? 

This is fascinating.  You're stating that someone else has such a charmed life as to be able to log in every day, whereas you, contrarily, don't.  However, this argument alone demonstrates that you have such a charmed life as to worry about you're login rewards.  There must not be anything of importance going on if the current stress is video game rewards from logging in.

This is a truly paradoxical statement.

 

[Emberfoot.6847]

6 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Sounds like the best way to do it is for it to count up the days you are away and deliver it as a package the next time you log in.

And as for the contrarian silliness about rewarding you for being away being such a ghastly and incomprehensible way to do things, the game already does that with birthday gifts. And in practice, what does it do? It doesn't incentivize you to not play, it encourages you to come back by giving you something cool to engage with as soon as you log in. What's the first thing that's gonna happen when you log in if you're away a while? You're going to wonder what to do because you've forgotten how a lot of stuff works. Stuff like this gives you something to do and a reason to stay. It's the opposite of how people are portraying it.

What do birthday gifts give that are tradeable? Because that is the main thing that would ruin the economy, free tradeable stuff for 0 effort.

5 hours ago, Friday.7864 said:

Congrats on having a stress free life where one of your main worries is logging into an MMO? 
 

I also don't have a stress free life with a guarantee I can log in every day... so I didn't buy the contracts. 

[Labjax.2465]

1 minute ago, Emberfoot.6847 said:

What do birthday gifts give that are tradeable? Because that is the main thing that would ruin the economy, free tradeable stuff for 0 effort.

If people who have tens of accounts getting login rewards doesn't ruin the economy, then this wouldn't even come close. As it is, unless I am drastically misunderstanding the topic here, all we are talking about is people getting what they paid for while AFK, i.e. the tiny number of players who both buy an item like this and struggle to get online each day to get it. We are talking about a miniscule impact.

[Friday.7864]

9 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Hey you can boot up the game after you put on the coffie/tea pot in the morning no stress at all.

Congrats on leading a stress free sheltered life where you have access to your computer each day?
You really haven't experienced much hardship if you can afford to worry about purposedly booting your PC every day just to log into an MMO.

 

7 hours ago, Emberfoot.6847 said:

I also don't have a stress free life with a guarantee I can log in every day... so I didn't buy the contracts. 

That's the whole point...
More people would have a reason to buy it... Something that would work out well for Anet and players who can't log in regularly.
How is that so hard to comprehend even though you're talking about it all the time?

You still wouldn't be forced to buy it so I don't understand why you're complaining.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Friday.7864

[Friday.7864]

9 hours ago, Rogue.8235 said:

If you can't log in daily (like me), then you have more important things to worry about than video game rewards.  Even so, merely logging in without any further input is all that is needed to get these rewards.  It's less effort that home instance nodes, which require time to log into the home instance and gather.  Literally, just log in to a character and immediately exit the game, and you'll have gotten the contract rewards.

This is fascinating.  You're stating that someone else has such a charmed life as to be able to log in every day, whereas you, contrarily, don't.  However, this argument alone demonstrates that you have such a charmed life as to worry about you're login rewards.  There must not be anything of importance going on if the current stress is video game rewards from logging in.

This is a truly paradoxical statement.

 

The only paradoxical thing here is people opposing a positive change.
Not talking about myself. My contracts paid themselves off long ago. I really don't give a kitten if this happens or not.

I'm in favor of this change tho. Why? Because I'm not selfish and have empathy for people who lead more stressfull/busy lives than I do. It'd be great, imo, for such people, who invested into the game, to be greeted with some materials when they finally do find the time to play again.

 I'm not saying the deliveries should pile up for years, there should be a limit just enough so players get a "hey, welcome back" kinda message.

[yann.1946]

39 minutes ago, Friday.7864 said:

The only paradoxical thing here is people opposing a positive change.
Not talking about myself. My contracts paid themselves off long ago. I really don't give a kitten if this happens or not.

I'm in favor of this change tho. Why? Because I'm not selfish and have empathy for people who lead more stressfull/busy lives than I do. It'd be great, imo, for such people, who invested into the game, to be greeted with some materials when they finally do find the time to play again.

 I'm not saying the deliveries should pile up for years, there should be a limit just enough so players get a "hey, welcome back" kinda message.

This way of thinking is a big problem. You are ignoring that there are people who do not consider it a positive change, and for some reason are under the impression that the only reason people would be opposed would be some for of selfishness/lack of empathy. 

 

Is there anything a person could say that could convince you you are wrong? 

[Cyninja.2954]

1 hour ago, Friday.7864 said:

The only paradoxical thing here is people opposing a positive change.

 

As was pointed out already: this is not a positive only change. It's at best a situational beneficial change which has detriments in other areas (primarily in the items main reason for being implemented).

You ignoring or disagreeing with differing opinions does not make you "right" nor does your way of dismissing every differing opinion. It simply shows you up as stubborn, which in general is not an opinion worth listening to as far as useful ideas go.

Quote

Not talking about myself. My contracts paid themselves off long ago. I really don't give a kitten if this happens or not.

It's not going to happen simply because the design for this item and the intent behind it is not to pay out as much as possible with least effort.

If it does happen, then the goal for what these item were added might have shifted. In which case we might see a change in login rewards too.

Quote

I'm in favor of this change tho. Why? Because I'm not selfish and have empathy for people who lead more stressfull/busy lives than I do. It'd be great, imo, for such people, who invested into the game, to be greeted with some materials when they finally do find the time to play again.

 I'm not saying the deliveries should pile up for years, there should be a limit just enough so players get a "hey, welcome back" kinda message.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Friday.7864]

2 hours ago, yann.1946 said:

This way of thinking is a big problem. You are ignoring that there are people who do not consider it a positive change, and for some reason are under the impression that the only reason people would be opposed would be some for of selfishness/lack of empathy. 

 

Is there anything a person could say that could convince you you are wrong? 

So why haven't I heard a single valid reason why this shouldn't be implemented?
How does it hurt you to hate this idea so much?
What's so horrible about letting a week worth of low value materials pile up in the mail for people who can't play for a few days?

All I heard about were:
- the standard "no need to change this" & "don't buy it then"
- some unrelated comparisons 
- people derailing the thread by talking about daily logins which is a separate system and wasn't even mentioned by opener

 

[Cyninja.2954]

32 minutes ago, Friday.7864 said:

So why haven't I heard a single valid reason why this shouldn't be implemented?

Valid based on what? Your personal opinion or your lack to understand that there are detriments to changing this beyond personal convenience of not having to log in? (changes which remove players from the game in general seem hard to be justified imo, but hey that's just me believing that games should not play themselves).

Quote

How does it hurt you to hate this idea so much?

Because believe it or not, some of us actually ARE concerned with possible negative repercussions to this change. Willingly forgoing personal convenience in this specific case.

Quote

What's so horrible about letting a week worth of low value materials pile up in the mail for people who can't play for a few days?

It's not about the people who can't play a few days.

Quote

All I heard about were:
- the standard "no need to change this" & "don't buy it then"
- some unrelated comparisons 
- people derailing the thread by talking about daily logins which is a separate system and wasn't even mentioned by opener

 

Ah the good old "I don't agree therefor diverging opinions are invalid" argument.

Let's go through them again shall we then:

1. Yes, the item was implemented in a specific way. That does not automatically disqualify it from change. In this case though the main reason for having this service/item in the first place and behaving for how it does is player retention.

Changing this to be a pay 1nce, collect every X days, makes this both fail at the idea behind it's implementation as well as make this item seem far more "pay for wealth" which can be construed as pay-to-win. Again, both these contracts as well as the infinite tools already had a some comments on their implementation.

2. If the intent behind something being implemented is the same, aka player retention for example, it makes no difference if the individual characteristics differ.

3. It's not unrelated comparison if the reward handout and acquisition method are exactly the same. Login rewards require the purchase of 1 of the games versions and reward daily on login. The hunter contracts require a 1 time payment per contract and reward daily on login.

Do you really believe the developers implemented these structures just by mere accident or at will? There is tons of research into behavior at place here (which btw is also responsible for some of the other behavior and implementation we see, especially in the BLTP).

Yes, the contracts ARE supposed to make players return DAILY. Yes, they are not handed out for free but instead are create to form connection between spending money and fear of losing out on rewards moving forward. The reason behind that is very basic as mentioned: players that login daily are more likely to remain with the game.

Now let's take this 1 step further: let's assume one or multiple methods of keeping player retention up are removed (because that's the cost at which this convenience is coming at primarily) and player numbers start to decline. Are you going to make up for that revenue? Take a guess who is. All the remaining players which now might see other types of monetization put in place.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Super Hayes.6890]

On 6/20/2022 at 12:02 PM, DarcShriek.5829 said:

You agreed to the terms before you purchased it.  If you didn't like the terms, you shouldn't have bought the contract.

This is very true. I didn't buy this item precisely because I have to log in daily to get the full benefit. That wasn't worth the cost to me.

[Friday.7864]

5 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Valid based on what? Your personal opinion or your lack to understand that there are detriments to changing this beyond personal convenience of not having to log in? (changes which remove players from the game in general seem hard to be justified imo, but hey that's just me believing that games should not play themselves).

Because believe it or not, some of us actually ARE concerned with possible negative repercussions to this change. Willingly forgoing personal convenience in this specific case.

It's not about the people who can't play a few days.

Ah the good old "I don't agree therefor diverging opinions are invalid" argument.

Let's go through them again shall we then:

1. Yes, the item was implemented in a specific way. That does not automatically disqualify it from change. In this case though the main reason for having this service/item in the first place and behaving for how it does is player retention.

Changing this to be a pay 1nce, collect every X days, makes this both fail at the idea behind it's implementation as well as make this item seem far more "pay for wealth" which can be construed as pay-to-win. Again, both these contracts as well as the infinite tools already had a some comments on their implementation.

2. If the intent behind something being implemented is the same, aka player retention for example, it makes no difference if the individual characteristics differ.

3. It's not unrelated comparison if the reward handout and acquisition method are exactly the same. Login rewards require the purchase of 1 of the games versions and reward daily on login. The hunter contracts require a 1 time payment per contract and reward daily on login.

Do you really believe the developers implemented these structures just by mere accident or at will? There is tons of research into behavior at place here (which btw is also responsible for some of the other behavior and implementation we see, especially in the BLTP).

Yes, the contracts ARE supposed to make players return DAILY. Yes, they are not handed out for free but instead are create to form connection between spending money and fear of losing out on rewards moving forward. The reason behind that is very basic as mentioned: players that login daily are more likely to remain with the game.

Now let's take this 1 step further: let's assume one or multiple methods of keeping player retention up are removed (because that's the cost at which this convenience is coming at primarily) and player numbers start to decline. Are you going to make up for that revenue? Take a guess who is. All the remaining players which now might see other types of monetization put in place.

So you're concerned but you can't tell me what exactly you're concerned about?

[Cyninja.2954]

4 minutes ago, Friday.7864 said:

So you're concerned but you can't tell me what exactly you're concerned about?

 

I'm not sure how much clearer I can spell it out for you by not for the 3rd time. Here:

 

TL;DR just for you:

reducing the reason for players to log in on an item which was specifically designed to encourage just that will eventually cause some players to log in less which ultimately results in those players leaving or not loging in at all. Topic creators idea literally results from him wanting to log in but not being able to. The item as such achieved just that: it encouraged topic creator to desire to log in. Him not being able to do so is unfortunate, but irrelevant to this items purpose.

 

I am going to skip explaining all the other things AGAIN given that one is the central one. This item is designed to make players log in daily to facilitate a continued connection with the game. That's it's purpose.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Emberfoot.6847]

One thing all the people who keep saying people who are against being able to loot a ton rarely rather than a little every day are "lacking empathy" are missing a major point. Not only would this devalue any items that could drop from them into the dirt, but anyone who plays actively and gathers those would also lose out big-time.

[Labjax.2465]

5 hours ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Changing this to be a pay 1nce, collect every X days, makes this both fail at the idea behind it's implementation as well as make this item seem far more "pay for wealth" which can be construed as pay-to-win. Again, both these contracts as well as the infinite tools already had a some comments on their implementation.

Don't get how that is stand-out. This game is riddled with pay for wealth (and by exchange, convenience) and if that is pay-to-win, then yes, this game has tons of it already.

Also, I don't get how the change people are asking for would make it any more pay for wealth as you put it. They still have to log in at some point to get the stuff and in this case, the value of it is tied to market value of the material, it's not even straight gold.

If this were a game that didn't do this kind of thing, I would agree that crossing such a line is bad. But that ship sailed ages ago.

[Cyninja.2954]

7 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

Don't get how that is stand-out. This game is riddled with pay for wealth (and by exchange, convenience) and if that is pay-to-win, then yes, this game has tons of it already.

Adding more pay for wealth (or increasing the convenience of it) does not help the issue for players opposed to such systems.

Quote

Also, I don't get how the change people are asking for would make it any more pay for wealth as you put it. They still have to log in at some point to get the stuff and in this case, the value of it is tied to market value of the material, it's not even straight gold.

It's actually not about market value and I intentionally did not mention this 1nce myself. The actual effect on the market would be minimal (on contracts, login rewards are a very different beast and given their similarity a push to treat them the same would be reasonable. Not going there in this discussion yet though).

To answer your question:

If there was any market effect it would be that requiring less log ins would devalue any items gained for any players who do login daily.

At the same time the value in form of convenience benefit for any players owning the item versus players who do not own the item increases. Remember, there are players who do not own the hunter contracts and making the contracts even more mandatory/valuable might not sit well with them.

Quote

If this were a game that didn't do this kind of thing, I would agree that crossing such a line is bad. But that ship sailed ages ago.

That's like saying every and all pay-to-win is equal and any amount of it no matter how much or little makes no difference. I would strongly disagree but you are entitled to your opinion.

In the end it's a matter of perspective on:how much effort should rewards which are granted for gems on a regular basis require. The current implementation of: log in at least, seems like a very reasonable compromise between to much and to little effort.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Labjax.2465]

15 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

To answer your question:

If there was any market effect it would be that requiring less log ins would devalue any items gained for any players who do login daily.

At the same time the value in form of convenience benefit for any players owning the item versus players who do not own the item increases. Remember, there are players who do not own the hunter contracts and making the contracts even more mandatory/valuable might not sit well with them.

In what way is it devaluing it though, that's a part I don't think I'm following on here at all. People can already log in after a long time away and unload stockpiled mats at once that were sitting in their material storage. And if I understand correctly how this works now, all someone has to do is be able to log into the game to get the mail. So like... isn't that already "devaluing"? I would think when we talk about the value of "login daily" we're talking about more than loading up the client and hitting Play and then shutting it down.

I can see a very fine distinction between the two, but I'm struggling to see how what's being asked for would be noticeably worse than something like the Black Lion Hunters Contract existing at all.

I'm somebody who doesn't own it. I can see this making it more appealing if I thought I was going to quit for a while or something and might come back, but otherwise, I just see it as a way of making it a better buy for people who lead extremely busy lives in RL.

Granted, I only speak for myself, but just to address what you said about how it might not sit right with people who don't have it.

[Friday.7864]

1 hour ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

I'm not sure how much clearer I can spell it out for you by not for the 3rd time. Here:

 

TL;DR just for you:

reducing the reason for players to log in on an item which was specifically designed to encourage just that will eventually cause some players to log in less which ultimately results in those players leaving or not loging in at all. Topic creators idea literally results from him wanting to log in but not being able to. The item as such achieved just that: it encouraged topic creator to desire to log in. Him not being able to do so is unfortunate, but irrelevant to this items purpose.

 

I am going to skip explaining all the other things AGAIN given that one is the central one. This item is designed to make players log in daily to facilitate a continued connection with the game. That's it's purpose.

Besides the actual daily login system, there's  325 dailies in GW2.
Three hundred twenty five dailies. 
325 reasons to log in, 325 reasons to play daily!
How many more do you need??
 

And you're still hell bent on preventing a slight adjustment to ONE gem store item people paid for  so it starts being more inclusive towards weekend players and the like?
On top of that the contract rewards are realistically kinda trash, who the kitten would log in every day just for that?
Plus you're acting as if the only thing that matters is to get people to log in. You need to give them reasons to play! Contracts provide 0 gameplay, it's a material delivery, it doesn't give you a reason to stick around. It provides no magical "connection" to the game.

For heavens sake, you're acting like those paid gem store contracts are the sole reason people still play the game. The narrative is so skewed it's giving me a headache...

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Friday.7864 said:

Besides the actual daily login system, there's  325 dailies in GW2.
Three hundred twenty five dailies. 
325 reasons to log in, 325 reasons to play daily!
How many more do you need??
 

And you're still hell bent on preventing a slight adjustment to ONE gem store item people paid for  so it starts being more inclusive towards weekend players and the like?
On top of that the contract rewards are realistically kinda trash, who the kitten would log in every day just for that?
Plus you're acting as if the only thing that matters is to get people to log in. You need to give them reasons to play! Contracts provide 0 gameplay, it's a material delivery, it doesn't give you a reason to stick around. It provides no magical "connection" to the game.

For heavens sake, you're acting like those paid gem store contracts are the sole reason people still play the game. The narrative is so skewed it's giving me a headache...

Not the sole but one reason to play yes, it seems that they were so important that the OP wanted to make them better then they already are.

[yann.1946]

18 hours ago, Friday.7864 said:

So why haven't I heard a single valid reason why this shouldn't be implemented?

You ignored them yes, that does not mean they do not exist. 

Do not confuse reasons you disagree with with invalid reasons. 

18 hours ago, Friday.7864 said:

How does it hurt you to hate this idea so much?

This here is part of the problem, have I said I hate the idea? Have I told you how I stand against the idea? 

18 hours ago, Friday.7864 said:

What's so horrible about letting a week worth of low value materials pile up in the mail for people who can't play for a few days?

 

18 hours ago, Friday.7864 said:

All I heard about were:

- the standard "no need to change this" & "don't buy it then"

These are not reasons, they are conclusions

18 hours ago, Friday.7864 said:

- some unrelated comparisons 

You mean the one with gathering nodes? Because it is extremely related. You might not see it or choose to ignore it, but that does not make it unrelated. 

18 hours ago, Friday.7864 said:

- people derailing the thread by talking about daily logins which is a separate system and wasn't even mentioned by opener

 

That is not derailing the tread, that putting attention to a specific part of the system. 

 

As I said, do not confuse arguments you disagree with with invalid arguments

[Sjentra.3409]

My jade bot Scavenger Magic Trophies gives me more resources in 10 minutes. I think people are grossly overestimating the impact this would have vs just a single afk farmer.

This is what Mukluk got with 4 trade contracts/expeditions
Mukluk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2Qi-L-LohI)

[Linken.6345]

5 hours ago, Sjentra.3409 said:

My jade bot Scavenger Magic Trophies gives me more resources in 10 minutes. I think people are grossly overestimating the impact this would have vs just a single afk farmer.

This is what Mukluk got with 4 trade contracts/expeditions
Mukluk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2Qi-L-LohI)

Think is you get nothing with jade bot scavenger if you dont play and it should be same with the boards