Harmbringers & Willblenders is overtuned please nerf

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

^ Thread title

ty

Oh and Vindicator also needs sustain nerf after GS buffs

ty again

Edited June 19, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Stand The Wall.6987]

wine should breathe

[Kuma.1503]

Misread title as Hamburgers and Willblenders. 

Cannot unsee. Will be calling Necros Hamburgers from this point onward. 🍔

[Waffles.5632]

26 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Misread title as Hamburgers and Willblenders. 

Cannot unsee. Will be calling Necros Hamburgers from this point onward. 🍔

I saw this harb the other day in pvp.

https://i0.wp.com/www.alittlebithuman.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/hamburglar.png

Edited June 19, 2022 by Waffles.5632

[Hotride.2187]

What? No, its so much fun to be chased down by the previously slow professions, while on one of the allegedly most mobile professions.

Today I was looking at 5 min queue times, Sunday noon. Got better in the afternoon but just lol.

Edited June 20, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

2 hours ago, Waffles.5632 said:

I saw this harb the other day in pvp.

https://i0.wp.com/www.alittlebithuman.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/hamburglar.png

Hambringer, also adequate meme.

And to whoever it was who popped the 4x confused faces all in a row within 15s of each other, cool moves man.

Amazing multi-account confused face spamming coming from one person's alts. Looks like someone is concerned about that simple post that holds so much truth.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Sigmoid.7082]

No doubt they will get nerfed. But I don't think just nerfing then is what the people, who supposedly want balance, are after. 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

5 minutes ago, Sigmoid.7082 said:

No doubt they will get nerfed. But I don't think just nerfing then is what the people, who supposedly want balance, are after. 

Agreed.

But their sheer numeric outputs are honestly waaay too high right now.

Harb needs Shroud#5 CD increase and Elite Elixir CD increase as example suggestions, and then WB needs RI to go back down to 25% in pvp as another beginning example suggestions. No idea what they were thinking when buffing RI to 40% in pvp. WB's offhand sword skills should also only work when targeted on someone. Those skills are providing too strong of disengage when they can be used without a target.

General nerfing would be a great place to start if they don't have any serious mechanical reworks in mind.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Sigmoid.7082]

2 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Agreed.

But their sheer numeric outputs are honestly waaay too high right now.

General nerfing would be a great place to start if they don't have any serious mechanical reworks in mind.

It won't really matter to some people if they get reworked , nerfed, made significantly weaker, or even become a second tier / situational pick compared to something else. As long as they remain viable or a meta pick in almost any way, including finding a completely different build to use, they "won't have been nerfed enough". 

 

I'm'm more interested in what is going to be changed besides these two since these two changing is an absolute given. 

 

Also looking forward to week 2 of July for either the nerf these two more threads or people complaining about the new hotness with week 3 to 4 being about how Anet could buff something like that or how could they not see X build rising to prominence and preemptively nerf it. 

 

It may seem nihilistic but based on history...it's generally true. I'm just waiting for the patch to come around to, more than likely, be vindicated. 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

*Quietly sipping from a mug that reads "Don't talk to me until I've had my warrior buffs" *

[Poledra Val.1490]

They will get nerfed but if sustain isint nerfed (im looking at you bunker vindicator) you all will be desperate for the damage to return in the right way.

Nobody in there right mind would want a bunker pvp meta, its insanely boring and will put off what little players pvp has at the moment.

Nobody wants 15 min matches in pvp.

[Vasdamas Anklast.1607]

Nerfing sustain on a vindicator with one dodge hmmm .....so every thief-like spec farms the hell out of them? The only suitable GS buff to compensate that would be some oneshot powercreep stuff but then you'd start complaining about that 🙂
 

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 hours ago, Poledra Val.1490 said:

They will get nerfed but if sustain isint nerfed (im looking at you bunker vindicator) you all will be desperate for the damage to return in the right way.

Nobody in there right mind would want a bunker pvp meta, its insanely boring and will put off what little players pvp has at the moment.

Nobody wants 15 min matches in pvp.

 

>have longer TTK but everyone specs bunker because they don't wanna down and get their ego bruised, so matches take three hours

 

>have a class that can answer all the annoying kitten that you wanted nerfed because you couldn't catch it on your similarly-annoying bunker build, but that class also works against you

 

Pick a button, pvp community.  Lmao.

[greedywholesome.9081]

14 hours ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

wine should breathe

 

Can't believe no one got the reference and humor. That was tasteful comedy. 

[Arky.3072]

To be honest, I don't think it will take a lot to bring Harbinger and Willbender back into tune.

I've spoken about this in great lengths on stream. It doesn't take a lot.

Harbinger:
- Elite elixir should have a longer CD compared to what it can do. Maybe 90s is enough, but I can easily see 120s.
- Elite elixir could have the boon/condi duration reduced to maybe 3s and shouldn't spit out 25 stacks of might. I suggest something around 10 stacks is enough.
- Other elixirs: maybe go through the durations here as well. 6 1/3s resistance, to mention an example, is a while to have resistance, compared to the nerf condi rev received (it was reduced from 3s to 1s).
- Bonus: They could tinker with quickness sharing, however, since this is a big incentive to team play, I'd be very careful about this.

Willbender is easy. Just adjust the amount of defensive boons it spits out, and it's fine. Maybe adjust the power coefficient and bring it level with power herald.

I'm a bit biased here as I'm a Harbinger enjoyer. But in general, what people should remember about Harbinger is that it's very much a high risk/high reward class. You lose a big chunk of your health if you go full ham (pun intended) with blight, and you're still squishy. 30k hp is gone rather quickly (carrion base stats).

[Sahne.6950]

25 minutes ago, Arky.3072 said:

I'm a bit biased here as I'm a Harbinger enjoyer. But in general, what people should remember about Harbinger is that it's very much a high risk/high reward class. You lose a big chunk of your health if you go full ham (pun intended) with blight, and you're still squishy. 30k hp is gone rather quickly (carrion base stats).

Yes you are biased here. You only die fast when a Willbender is right in your face and you somehow cant find the dodgekey or a OWP BRRRR Ranger BRRRR´s you. literally everything else is ezpz mode. I am playing Garbinger aswell.

The hp loss from blight... ah idk. The blight actually heals you! if you dont get bursted... having Blight on you is actually a sustain+. p00ping Weakness left and right..... having a good cleanse... idk... doesnt look squishy to me... and i am playing with Wizards amulet, which has even less hp.

Edited June 20, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[pallas.8150]

2 hours ago, Arky.3072 said:

I'm a bit biased here as I'm a Harbinger enjoyer. But in general, what people should remember about Harbinger is that it's very much a high risk/high reward class. You lose a big chunk of your health if you go full ham (pun intended) with blight, and you're still squishy. 30k hp is gone rather quickly (carrion base stats).

High risk...?

LOL

[Kuma.1503]

I didn't play 🍔 for long, but when I did, I didn't feel the "Easy to lock down" weakness. I heard it mentioned that they were easy to CC a few times. 

It's not hard to fit 2-3 stunbreaks on your bar. 2 if you run CPC and 3 if you don't need it for that match. As for your other two stunbreaks, walk pulses condi cleanse and is a situational port. Worm you just have to put somewhere where it's inconvenient to kill and you have an instant port away whenever you need it. Then you can nope into the sunset with shroud. 

If I ever got locked down it was because I pushed aggressively without cooldowns at which point...  99% of builds would be CC locked.

It's even less of an issue if you have a core guard support throwing aegis and stab at you, and supports love gluing themselves to necros.

I'm not entirely sure what 🍔's weakness is. Feels like I'm playing a tankier, more mobile core condi engi with a better pistol, better condi application, better CC, better elixirs, more weapon variety...

All I can think of is that it doesn't have any blocks. I'd say reflects but I ran curses and scepter on my weapon swap and shroud autos are still bugged and don't reflect. 

Edited June 20, 2022 by Kuma.1503
:hamburger:

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

4 hours ago, Arky.3072 said:

But in general, what people should remember about Harbinger is that it's very much a high risk/high reward class. You lose a big chunk of your health if you go full ham (pun intended) with blight, and you're still squishy. 30k hp is gone rather quickly (carrion base stats).

 

I'm more interested in how people come to the conclusion their bunker builds are high risk high reward than I am in pointing out the obvious here. 

That's mind boggling to me. 

Edited June 20, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Hotride.2187]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I'm more interested in how people come to the conclusion their bunker builds are high risk high reward than I am in pointing out the obvious here. 

That's mind boggling to me. 

Its high risk cause conquest gets deader and deader. So at some point you'll have nothing to play -> high risk.

[Eloid.4569]

Yeah, just give us one botton to all classes! 

[Kuma.1503]

32 minutes ago, lysico.1297 said:

Trevor

 

you think way too highly of yourself if you think folks are logging in alt account to put confused icons on your posts.      

*waggles cane*

Back in my day if you disagreed with some sunny over the internet you would downvote bomb that sucker! 

These days yonguns are walkin around hitting themselves in confusion. It makes no sense!

[Zero.3871]

12 hours ago, Arky.3072 said:

Harbinger:
- Elite elixir should have a longer CD compared to what it can do. Maybe 90s is enough, but I can easily see 120s.

fun fact: harb ult elixier is already 90 sec cd... many people are maybe confused since cd get reduced to 75 sec when traited. but basic cd still is 90 sec.

[Gibson.4036]

On 6/19/2022 at 7:47 PM, Poledra Val.1490 said:

 

Nobody wants 15 min matches in pvp.

Aw, one of the best matches I played last night was 14:26. Not because people couldn't kill each other, but because both teams were anticipating each other well in rotation. It was edge of the seat stuff. Everybody was so happy in chat at the end, congratulating each other on a great game.

I'd much rather matches like those than "Why does it feel the last 50 points are taking forever at 450-72".

.

.

EDIT: I'm in no way advocating a bunker meta. Just that a long, tense match can be kinda awesome.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Gibson.4036

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

3 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Aw, one of the best matches I played last night was 14:26. Not because people couldn't kill each other, but because both teams were anticipating each other well in rotation. It was edge of the seat stuff. Everybody was so happy in chat at the end, congratulating each other on a great game.

I'd much rather matches like those than "Why does it feel the last 50 points are taking forever at 450-72".

.

.

EDIT: I'm in no way advocating a bunker meta. Just that a long, tense match can be kinda awesome.

 

Mechanically dictated 15 minute matches are cringe.

Matches that go into overtime because both teams are actually having fun and giving it their all are what we should be facilitating.