MMO Veteran's wishlist and hopium for steam release!

[AlexVoyd.8094]

        Hey! This will be a long post so I start right away!
     I have created an account on almost any known MMO but I mainly played WoW (1100 days /played),FFXIV (250 days) and GW2 (130 days).I have high hopium for the steam release.Watching some videos from WP or Teapot regarding this subject,I realised I have a unique perspective,having so much playtime in other MMOs but at the same time loving GW2.
     Coming from other MMOs it's 2 things that really annoy me in GW2.

     A. - CLARITY & VISUAL NOISE -
    The game lacks clarity in almost every department.Some examples:
-You open LFG, you see the symbols of 3 core guardians in a group.No info of their roles!
-You enter a strike and you don't know:"is this daily only?What are the rewards?Can I see them anywhere?"
-Bosses are casting abilities noone knows their names.

      Regarding visual noise:
    While in a strike or raid, the game "forces" us to be grouped up, while at the same time you can't hide other players' graphics effects, combo fields, infusion glows, huge backpacks dyed in permafrost, twilight's huge graphic after effects, etc while at the same time you try to find an angle to watch your character's auto-attack chain animation so you won't ruin your dps by canceling it.
    Last but not least, the poor 2010 UI which was designed for simpler times, nowadays just ruins the gameplay instead of embracing the long-gone simplicity of Vanilla GW2.
    Before talking about solutions (and expectations) I will write about the second problem.It is an MMO after all. EVERYTHING is intertwined.

     B. - GEMSTORE & IN-GAME REWARDS -
    I can't stress enough how I prefer subscription based games. Especially FFXIV which has a known patch cycle that I can organise my sub accordingly, play as much as I want and then return when new content arrives.
    GW2's moneytization starves the actual game from rewards sadly. All cool skins are behind real money. "But you can buy gems with gold" many would answer to this.Yes it's true. Let's analyse where this leads though: Since there is no gear progression in the game, everything comes down to gold per hour. People who don't enjoy fractals are doing them cause they are the best GPH. People asking for 500 LI for Boneskinner, cause it is a waste of time(thus gold) if you wipe.Some maps are dead because their GPH isn't the best.
     So in the end, EVERY reward in game is related to gold. Which is boring. And makes everything a "rush". 

     Let's talk about solutions and expectations. Many MMO players after character creation will go to "UI settings". 
     -"Oh! There are no UI settings. Ok then, I need to get my ...gwelvui! Oh there are no addons? But I want my HP bar there and the enemy bar there and my spells vertical in the middle of my screen!"
      That would be a typical first minute experience for many new players.
    1.Open up the UI. Allow in-game modification. Add more menus.A separate achievement panel, a separate crafting panel. Options to keybind these. Add more bars. Add ways to check our non-active weapons' cooldowns. Give information.Give the power to the player.
    2.Fight design starts with character and UI design! So: Allow mod of SCT that is currently hiding (everything) animations of smaller enemies,add options to hide combo fields,glow effects,spell effects,pets. Make boon applycation and healing be "raid-wide" so players dont have to be blobed in melee. Options to filter boons and conditions. Separate non-essentials buffs from in-combat boons. Add proper casting bars,both for player and the bosses.Let me know if my granade 2 is ready. Dont punish me for interrupting my auto-chain to use CC.You shouldnt punish me for being good.With bad character design and bad UI,developers have less room to make more interesting mechanics.Allowing players to spread throughout the boss arena will open up the design for mechanics like soaks,lines and personal responsibility.
     3.Regarding gemstore and rewards: I know this community hates the word "subscription". And tbh adding a sub to gw2 right now after so many years would be weird. But an addition of seasonal pass is easier in my opinion. IF done correctly. So assuming we are having a seasonal pass (that money will only speed things up) will allow you to rework the daily login rewards (which btw should be allowed to stack for at least 3 days).Find your development cycle and fit 2 seasonal passes in-between. Each one with a new BLTC Weapon skin set and new mount skins.Reward some of them through it.Connect the seasonal pass with in-game activities. Allow rework of the daily system which will be connected to the seasonal pass instead. Remove lootboxes!!Allow all these beautiful skins to be given to players by doing "10 strikes" or "5 raids". Yeah,ok,Boneskinner itself wont drop the mount skin,but it will be obtained through the various activities asked from the seasonal pass.

    Epilogue:In my opinion GW2 right now needs more QoL than new content. New UI, re-imagined rewards structure,allow players to enjoy their ranged builds,give us knowledge of things,what bosses drop,what bosses cast,a better LFG system with matchmaking. Like it or not,you have roles now (alac,quick,heal,dps,tank). Embrace them instead of acting like they don't exist.

    Thanks for reading if you reached this far! Take care <3

PS:please remove the FOMO from the gemstore too!! :D

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Playing 'all' other MMOs does not mean this one needs to be changed to be more like them. 

[Hotride.2187]

Season passes for what exactly? Living world seasons?

Spvp seasons are a joke with the low player count, lets not talk about wvw.

[Sarius.9285]

38 minutes ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Playing 'all' other MMOs does not mean this one needs to be changed to be more like them. 

that's not what he meant tho....having more control over UI and visuals is ALWAYS good and important.

 

Having a season pass instead of those stupid lootboxes is also much more user friendly 

[Ashen.2907]

Cant disagree about the visual noise or UI customization. Dont agree that the best skins are in the gem store. Cant agree about a season pass without knowing what it is. The comment about being able to schedule his time in FF was odd because leaving and coming back is easier in GW2.

[Linken.6345]

Why is  Gemstore and rewards section written twice?

[Teratus.2859]

Suggesting any kind of paid service isn't going to go down well with this community.

Many people play Guildwars because they don't like/hate Sub based games (myself included) which for the record are and have been a slowly dying breed of MMO for a very long time.
Just look at how many F2P MMO's there are out there which were originally mandatory subfee to play.

This model simply doesn't work and has killed significantly more MMO's than it has helped flourish.

 

Gw2 offers a far better method, pay as much as you like for what you like via the gemstore.

If you want to throw money at the game every month like you were paying a subfee, then you can do so with buying gems.

That's the choice Gw2 gives you that most MMO's didn't, and that's largely one reason why this one is still going strong while most have stagnated and/or died entirely because they simply could not compete with the big ones.
Anet were very smart to not go the sub model, and they would be wise to continue that trend with their future games, lest they risk driving away the majority of their customers.

[Khisanth.2948]

34 minutes ago, AlexVoyd.8094 said:

 I have created an account on almost any known MMO but I mainly played WoW (1100 days /played),FFXIV (250 days) and GW2 (130 days).I have high hopium for the steam release.Watching some videos from WP or Teapot regarding this subject,I realised I have a unique perspective,having so much playtime in other MMOs but at the same time loving GW2.

but what did you actually learn from that?

It's like telling a potential employer that you worked at 20 jobs in 1 year they probably would not be very impressed.

36 minutes ago, AlexVoyd.8094 said:

-You open LFG, you see the symbols of 3 core guardians in a group.No info of their roles!

Either a group cares about group comp or they don't. If they care then they will mention it.

37 minutes ago, AlexVoyd.8094 said:

-You enter a strike and you don't know:"is this daily only?What are the rewards?Can I see them anywhere?"

I am not sure what you are complaining about here. My best guess is you spread your time to too many games and you didn't even learn that there is a category in the daily achievements section for strikes.

40 minutes ago, AlexVoyd.8094 said:

    I can't stress enough how I prefer subscription based games. Especially FFXIV which has a known patch cycle that I can organise my sub accordingly, play as much as I want and then return when new content arrives.
    GW2's moneytization starves the actual game from rewards sadly. All cool skins are behind real money. "But you can buy gems with gold" many would answer to this.Yes it's true. Let's analyse where this leads though: Since there is no gear progression in the game, everything comes down to gold per hour. People who don't enjoy fractals are doing them cause they are the best GPH. People asking for 500 LI for Boneskinner, cause it is a waste of time(thus gold) if you wipe.Some maps are dead because their GPH isn't the best.
     So in the end, EVERY reward in game is related to gold. Which is boring. And makes everything a "rush". 

Sounds to me like you attach too much importance to them simply because they are in the gemstore. That would mean no matter what they put in the gemstore you will think it is the best. IMO the majority of the gemstore offering have been ugly glowing monstrosities.

49 minutes ago, AlexVoyd.8094 said:

Add proper casting bars,both for player and the bosses.Let me know if my granade 2 is ready. Dont punish me for interrupting my auto-chain to use CC.You shouldnt punish me for being good.

Please don't try to brag while contradicting yourself. I am not saying the game shouldn't have those features but a good player wouldn't need them because they are good. 😉

35 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Season passes for what exactly? Living world seasons?

Those seasons have nothing to do with each other.

The ones OP is referring to are more like reward tracks. You progress through them in different ways depending on the game. For example a racing game might have something as simple as play 5 races and that will give you a certain amount exp in the reward track. 

They probably leverage the IKEA effect as well. "These items are so much better because I 'earned' them." You can even see that sort of mentality from various posts.

[Krzysztof.5973]

3 hours ago, Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

Playing 'all' other MMOs does not mean this one needs to be changed to be more like them. 

That's why WoW by stealing... I mean... borrowing mechanics from other MMOs is no longer number 1 and GW2 is... oh wait...

[Rauderi.8706]

What's on my wishlist is much better grouping UX, policy, and tools.  

 

[Danikat.8537]

3 hours ago, AlexVoyd.8094 said:

        Hey! This will be a long post so I start right away!
     I have created an account on almost any known MMO but I mainly played WoW (1100 days /played),FFXIV (250 days) and GW2 (130 days).I have high hopium for the steam release.Watching some videos from WP or Teapot regarding this subject,I realised I have a unique perspective,having so much playtime in other MMOs but at the same time loving GW2.
     Coming from other MMOs it's 2 things that really annoy me in GW2.

     A. - CLARITY & VISUAL NOISE -
    The game lacks clarity in almost every department.Some examples:
-You open LFG, you see the symbols of 3 core guardians in a group.No info of their roles!
-You enter a strike and you don't know:"is this daily only?What are the rewards?Can I see them anywhere?"
-Bosses are casting abilities noone knows their names.

      Regarding visual noise:
    While in a strike or raid, the game "forces" us to be grouped up, while at the same time you can't hide other players' graphics effects, combo fields, infusion glows, huge backpacks dyed in permafrost, twilight's huge graphic after effects, etc while at the same time you try to find an angle to watch your character's auto-attack chain animation so you won't ruin your dps by canceling it.
    Last but not least, the poor 2010 UI which was designed for simpler times, nowadays just ruins the gameplay instead of embracing the long-gone simplicity of Vanilla GW2.
    Before talking about solutions (and expectations) I will write about the second problem.It is an MMO after all. EVERYTHING is intertwined.

     B. - GEMSTORE & IN-GAME REWARDS -
    I can't stress enough how I prefer subscription based games. Especially FFXIV which has a known patch cycle that I can organise my sub accordingly, play as much as I want and then return when new content arrives.
    GW2's moneytization starves the actual game from rewards sadly. All cool skins are behind real money. "But you can buy gems with gold" many would answer to this.Yes it's true. Let's analyse where this leads though: Since there is no gear progression in the game, everything comes down to gold per hour. People who don't enjoy fractals are doing them cause they are the best GPH. People asking for 500 LI for Boneskinner, cause it is a waste of time(thus gold) if you wipe.Some maps are dead because their GPH isn't the best.
     So in the end, EVERY reward in game is related to gold. Which is boring. And makes everything a "rush". 

     Let's talk about solutions and expectations. Many MMO players after character creation will go to "UI settings". 
     -"Oh! There are no UI settings. Ok then, I need to get my ...gwelvui! Oh there are no addons? But I want my HP bar there and the enemy bar there and my spells vertical in the middle of my screen!"
      That would be a typical first minute experience for many new players.
    1.Open up the UI. Allow in-game modification. Add more menus.A separate achievement panel, a separate crafting panel. Options to keybind these. Add more bars. Add ways to check our non-active weapons' cooldowns. Give information.Give the power to the player.
    2.Fight design starts with character and UI design! So: Allow mod of SCT that is currently hiding (everything) animations of smaller enemies,add options to hide combo fields,glow effects,spell effects,pets. Make boon applycation and healing be "raid-wide" so players dont have to be blobed in melee. Options to filter boons and conditions. Separate non-essentials buffs from in-combat boons. Add proper casting bars,both for player and the bosses.Let me know if my granade 2 is ready. Dont punish me for interrupting my auto-chain to use CC.You shouldnt punish me for being good.With bad character design and bad UI,developers have less room to make more interesting mechanics.Allowing players to spread throughout the boss arena will open up the design for mechanics like soaks,lines and personal responsibility.
     3.Regarding gemstore and rewards: I know this community hates the word "subscription". And tbh adding a sub to gw2 right now after so many years would be weird. But an addition of seasonal pass is easier in my opinion. IF done correctly. So assuming we are having a seasonal pass (that money will only speed things up) will allow you to rework the daily login rewards (which btw should be allowed to stack for at least 3 days).Find your development cycle and fit 2 seasonal passes in-between. Each one with a new BLTC Weapon skin set and new mount skins.Reward some of them through it.Connect the seasonal pass with in-game activities. Allow rework of the daily system which will be connected to the seasonal pass instead. Remove lootboxes!!Allow all these beautiful skins to be given to players by doing "10 strikes" or "5 raids". Yeah,ok,Boneskinner itself wont drop the mount skin,but it will be obtained through the various activities asked from the seasonal pass.

    Epilogue:In my opinion GW2 right now needs more QoL than new content. New UI, re-imagined rewards structure,allow players to enjoy their ranged builds,give us knowledge of things,what bosses drop,what bosses cast,a better LFG system with matchmaking. Like it or not,you have roles now (alac,quick,heal,dps,tank). Embrace them instead of acting like they don't exist.

    Thanks for reading if you reached this far! Take care <3

PS:please remove the FOMO from the gemstore too!! :D

It's great that you think you've played 'all' the other MMOs but some of your suggestions tell me you need to spend more time with GW2 before listing ways to fix it.

For example it wouldn't be practical for the LFG menu to list roles for most content because with the exception of a few roles in raids they're entirely player-defined and shift with the meta. As someone else mentioned if a group is worried about assigning specific roles they will say what they are (and what they're looking for you to do). If they don't it's safe to assume you'll be doing whatever you usually do in groups, most likely either focusing on damage with CC when needed or a mix of damage and support.

Lisewise by complaining you don't know what rewards come from strikes, and claiming all the cool skins are in the gem store it suggests you don't know enough about this game to know how to find rewards, which include many, many different skins, at least some of which I assume will meet your personal definition for cool.

That is a problem; until you know where you look it's easy to miss a lot of the skins and other rewards in the game, especially if you expect GW2 to function like some other MMOs where the majority of rewards are direct drops. But moving the small subset of skins which are in the gem store into the game would just mean there's more for inexperienced players to miss, not that they'll find them. What it needs is better sign-posting of the various unique vendors, collections and other achievements and other sources of skins and items in the game. (Personally I wouldn't change the sources in the vast majority of places, because among other things I like that this system allows players to choose which rewards to go for, just make it clearer for new players how they can do that.)

On a related note the absence of a subscription has been one of the selling points of this franchise since GW1 launched and it seems to have worked pretty well, both for Anet and their players (I know I'm not the only one who got interested in the game for exactly that reason) so it's extremely unlikely they'd change it now.

The one thing in your post I do agree with is that more UI customisation would be nice. Although it should definitely be in the form of letting players choose their own layout and visuals because a lot of the things you want hidden are things I need to see (especially skill effects and pets, I need to know what my group is doing, not just fire away as if I'm playing solo), and the things you want the game to tell you are usually not important to me.

Incidentally I'd be curious to know approximately how many MMOs you've actually played. Looking at lists like this one (which is specifically graphical MMORPGs, because there's too many MMOs in total to fit all of them into one list) it's hard for me to imagine someone making time for more than a handful of them, even spread across many years.

[Freya.9075]

I come from many mmos as well. And I stayed with gw2 for the reasons you want to “improve”. Could gw2 be better at some things? Ofc. No game is perfect and I don’t expect them to be. I enjoy the game for what it is. 

just because you play many mmos doesn’t make you more qualified to critique a game. Ppl are different and have different needs and interests in games. Gw2 is good at catering to their customers just like wow and ff14 are good at catering to theirs. None of them are better then the other. It all comes down to what ppl want in a game. 

[Netrizhul.3429]

I'm not veteran in gw2 but I really hope for more clarity, I wish there is option to hide Ally or self non beneficial abilities. Too much effects and clutter on screen.

[Khisanth.2948]

47 minutes ago, Freya.9075 said:

I come from many mmos as well. And I stayed with gw2 for the reasons you want to “improve”. Could gw2 be better at some things? Ofc. No game is perfect and I don’t expect them to be. I enjoy the game for what it is. 

just because you play many mmos doesn’t make you more qualified to critique a game. Ppl are different and have different needs and interests in games. Gw2 is good at catering to their customers just like wow and ff14 are good at catering to theirs. None of them are better then the other. It all comes down to what ppl want in a game. 

Especially if the other games are played at an equally shallow level.

Although I guess that would be catering to the most casual of casuals. So casual that they don't know where stuff are in the game nor do they want to learn.  Might be very challenging trying to retain such a player.

[robertthebard.8150]

3 hours ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

That's why WoW by stealing... I mean... borrowing mechanics from other MMOs is no longer number 1 and GW2 is... oh wait...

So, I'm curious, what is it that you believe WoW actually invented?  Kung Fu Pandas?  I mean, I have seen posts that led me to believe that Blizzard should be suing the Ancient Greeks for having the audacity to steal their creatures...  I just want to know where the bar you're setting is here...

[Krzysztof.5973]

55 minutes ago, robertthebard.8150 said:

So, I'm curious, what is it that you believe WoW actually invented?  Kung Fu Pandas?  I mean, I have seen posts that led me to believe that Blizzard should be suing the Ancient Greeks for having the audacity to steal their creatures...  I just want to know where the bar you're setting is here...

I shall make my sarcasm posts more obvious in the future...

[Dante.1508]

While i agree with a lot you said i do not agree the subscription based design works... FFXIV, i quit due to subs.. SWTOR, i quit due to subs.. WoW never played due to subs.. ESO i quit due to subs..

 

Seeing a theme there..

[Artemis.8034]

It really depends, I mean if a person is spending 20 dollars a month or two buying outfits mounts keys utility ect then yes a sub would be better value because you get all that in game. But if people are not buying outfits and mounts and w/e then a sub has no value for them because they dont want to spend for those mounts outfits w/e. So they wouldnt want to pay a sub. Oh and before people mention buying gems with gold, you can also pay subs with ingame currency. I was just saying people that dont wont do it anyway

Edited June 23, 2022 by Artemis.8034

[Hotride.2187]

Its so funny having this thread and after a day or 2, a dev post with "dude, wheres my cursor".

And they do what? They add a high contract cursor option. They don't try to reduce visual noise so you can see kitten. No, they make sure you can see your cursor.

At first when I read it I was like "hey this is good" and 2 seconds later I was "wait what about the visual clusterkitten".

[Diktator.8927]

17 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Suggesting any kind of paid service isn't going to go down well with this community.

Many people play Guildwars because they don't like/hate Sub based games (myself included) which for the record are and have been a slowly dying breed of MMO for a very long time.
Just look at how many F2P MMO's there are out there which were originally mandatory subfee to play.

This model simply doesn't work and has killed significantly more MMO's than it has helped flourish.

 

Gw2 offers a far better method, pay as much as you like for what you like via the gemstore.

If you want to throw money at the game every month like you were paying a subfee, then you can do so with buying gems.

That's the choice Gw2 gives you that most MMO's didn't, and that's largely one reason why this one is still going strong while most have stagnated and/or died entirely because they simply could not compete with the big ones.
Anet were very smart to not go the sub model, and they would be wise to continue that trend with their future games, lest they risk driving away the majority of their customers.

 

I also prefer one time fees and dislike subscriptions, but sub model is more healthy for the game than other models. The reason GW2 is still going and hasn't died out, is not purely due to that fact you mentioned, but also due to way the game is designed.

 

You have to fund the game somehow, you need to pay the devs, you need to pay for the game to be run and updated regularly, you need to pay for new features.  

Free-to-play games mostly do this by having p2w systems, that are either "convenience" based, or straight up power based. They will often milk whales. Usually those games just devolve into pleasing the whales, milking them even more by introducing more stuff for them to buy, while ignoring the regular users, creating a really bad experience for people. I think most of us will agree that this model is bad.

Buy to play games have a one time fee, but that simply isn't enough to run and constantly keep the game updated. Which is why those games introduce optional sub fees, convenience and cosmetic cash shops, DLCs... 
GW2 doesn't have a sub, but it does have a lot of "convenience" based items in the cash shop, and a bunch of cosmetics (that often do look better than what you can regularly get in game). DLCs are currently all over the place, and they would need to be more frequent than 3 in 7 years

How many times have I seen something being suggested, and the reply was "ooh but they don't have the money to do that" or rather "they would rather spend it elsewhere - aka creating new DLCs".

It's really a matter of preference.
1. Do you like the game as it is and don't want things to be drastically changed/improved upon? - If yes, then the current model suits it perfectly. They can pay to run the servers, and keep the game updated.
2. Would you like certain things/systems to be improved/redesigned and more stuff to be added to the game more regularly? Do you want to see the game constantly being improved? - If yes, then unless they improve their marketing and bring in a lot of new players who will buy the expansions and spend money in the cash shop (though those are also one time fees and not really great for long term), introducing an additional optional sub fee (whether it's a seasonal pass, a sub fee like ESO+, or whatever else) would benefit the game greatly. It's just a question whether they want to push this game further and make it the best, or if they're content with what it is.

 

Now onto the main post.

I personally don't mind the UI, although it could definitely get some improvements.

Clarity is an issue.

In-game rewards are an issue somewhat. I'm a fairly new player, but I usually don't feel that sense of being rewarded for doing stuff. It's mostly because the rewards are small and consist of bunch of different mats, that by themselves aren't particularly valuable (the value comes from obtaining them over and over again, over longer periods of time). You get rewarded with a container, that contains another container, that contains mats and stuff. Everything revolves around gold and obtaining it trough different activities, and doing stuff that gives you a good amount of "gold per hour". 
Even the GW2 content creators are touching upon this (MightyTeapot's video about weak endgame rewards). I wouldn't have an issue with rewards overall in open-world if the harder content was more rewarding (more meaningful rewards instead of getting a bunch of mats and stuff). It feels like its more of the same stuff which doesn't really push me to do that sort of content, as I feel like it's a waste of time to try and learn all the mechanics and spend the time clearing the content. Besides, I can just buy most of that stuff off the Trading Post, with gold I've received from doing stuff that's way easier and less time consuming.

Fight design/combat mechanics. Again, I agree with that. 
Also one of the reasons why I'm not really compelled to do harder group/raid content is because of stacking and the overreliance on boons. Everyone sits in the same spot, trying to do the max dps rotation with their character, with supports providing constant boons. It just seems boring to me. You can't even see things properly (this ties to clarity) and are just sitting there spamming spells. The classes itself don't matter, only the boons they provide matter. With the balance patch, more classes will get access to certain boons, but in the end it's just going to be as bland, maybe even more so. Everyone will end up being able to do everything, and when you tie that to the lack of trinity system, it just makes me stay away from PvE group content even more. 

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by Diktator.8927

[Teratus.2859]

7 minutes ago, Diktator.8927 said:

I also prefer one time fees and dislike subscriptions, but sub model is more healthy for the game than other models. The reason GW2 is still going and hasn't died out, is not purely due to that fact you mentioned, but also due to way the game is designed.

Only if the game is spectacular usually, or has some other kind of advantage, like WoW having little in the way of competition early on (for the kind of MMO it was) allowing it to amass a huge fanbase before serious competition came around.

In the vast majority of cases the subfee kills the game and forces it into P2W/F2P situation as we've seen with so many MMO's over the years.

So sure a subfee can be good for a singular game that hordes all the customers and succeeds because of it like WoW..

But it is atrociously bad for the genre and the market, actively stifling competition and by extent innovation by crushing hope for anything different.
Guildwars rejecting the subfee was a smart play because of that, they went their own way, did things differently and it paid off greatly.

7 minutes ago, Diktator.8927 said:

You have to fund the game somehow, you need to pay the devs, you need to pay for the game to be run and updated regularly, you need to pay for new features. 

All true, but that's why we have the gemstore, it's a fair alternative imo.. and again imo a far more preferable one to a endless mandatory fee that results in access to my account that I have supported and paid into for years being held at ransom if I stop paying a subfee.. regardless of how much i've money and time i've put into said account over a decade.

 

Gw2 has it's share of whales who put a lot of money into the game as well as others like me who throw some cash at the game once in a while.

 

Gw2 is honestly doing fine on this model, well enough at least to justify huge expenses directed at alternate projects which is what largely caused the layoffs a while ago.
Now we've just had the biggest and possibly the best expansion drop for the game.. doubling player counts from the last one and confirmation that another expansion is already in development and Gw2 is going to be the core focus for Anet going forward.

If that doesn't say Gw2 is doing pretty great atm then I really don't know what will lol

 

This model does work, sure it's probably not as profitable as say WoW and it's mandatory sub but it's good enough to keep not just this game alive and supported but also the original which is still alive and kicking and every Gw2 fan should go back and play, especially if they never did.

7 minutes ago, Diktator.8927 said:

Buy to play games have a one time fee, but that simply isn't enough to run and constantly keep the game updated. Which is why those games introduce optional sub fees, convenience and cosmetic cash shops, DLCs... 
GW2 doesn't have a sub, but it does have a lot of "convenience" based items in the cash shop, and a bunch of cosmetics (that often do look better than what you can regularly get in game). DLCs are currently all over the place, and they would need to be more frequent than 3 in 7 years

Well Gw2 isn't even B2P anymore it's F2P for the base game, has been since Heart of Thorns I think.

But you're not wrong, and that's largely why i'm a huge advocate for paid expansions.

I will gladly pay out for the most expensive variant of the expansions, especially if there are physical collectors editions which I am still a bit annoyed at there wasn't for the last 3 expansions.

I'm not usually one for doing stuff like that.. Collectors just doesn't appeal for the vast majority of the time but Gw2 I will make an exception for.

 

As far as the DLC's go.. i'm quite mixed on those.
I do love that Anet gives us this content for free, and I have never paid for a living world episode.. at least on my own account.

But there is no contest between Living world and paid Expansions, if there could only be one I would gladly support paid expansions and do away with the free living world.
But so far Anet has not given me that choice and continues to make both.. I respect them a lot for that. 
Especially in todays industry where many companies are constantly looking for ways they can make you pay for everything, especially stuff that they used to give you for free or are part of something you've already paid for with the original product price..  like the online multiplayer features of every game on modern Nintendo and Sony consoles.... greedy skritts lol

7 minutes ago, Diktator.8927 said:

How many times have I seen something being suggested, and the reply was "ooh but they don't have the money to do that" or rather "they would rather spend it elsewhere - aka creating new DLCs".

Can't say, but I've seen the occasional comment like that.

However I would not take those kinds of comments too seriously.

 

For the most part it's not about money, it's about time, manpower and priorities.

I can say this much, a great of things that people have long wanted are being addressed right now.

There's a big workload underway for WvW which has long been neglected.

Living World Season 1 is coming back, something I have been nagging for since as far back as the first expansion.

Easy Mode Raids has just been confirmed, another thing I've long talked about and requested and was told "never going to happen" by other players.

Clearly Anet does care about a lot of things that players bring up regularly.. and it's not that they don't want to fix those things, it's that they don't have the time or ability to do so right away, but when they do get that time.. to be fair they really do try to fix them.

Sometimes though the job is just too big and it takes a long time to find the right moment to push that project in.. as we're seeing now with living world 1 for example, so long overdue but finally they have the time to bring it back in some form.

7 minutes ago, Diktator.8927 said:

2. Would you like certain things/systems to be improved/redesigned and more stuff to be added to the game more regularly? Do you want to see the game constantly being improved? - If yes, then unless they improve their marketing and bring in a lot of new players who will buy the expansions and spend money in the cash shop (though those are also one time fees and not really great for long term), introducing an additional optional sub fee (whether it's a seasonal pass, a sub fee like ESO+, or whatever else) would benefit the game greatly. It's just a question whether they want to push this game further and make it the best, or if they're content with what it is.

Well they are doing that.. they have that steam release coming up which could go either way when it comes to amassing a ton of new players.

The biggest problem with that steam release though is first impressions.
It really doesn't matter if Gw2 gets like 10 million more players in the first month it releases on steam if 9.5 million stop playing after 2-3 months because they get bored of the game.

 

I've brought this up many many times for a good while.. but the Core world content is by far the most important area of this game, it's where everyone is going be playing when they first start the game and it is vital that many parts of this core game are looked at and brought up to par with some of the more recent content.

I've noticed a number of people starting to say the same thing too, including some big voices for this game like Mighty Teapot, as well as other content creators that feature Gw2 occasionally such as Josh Strife Hayes.

When Gw2 releases on steam, it has got to blow peoples first impressions out of the water and if it can do that then it will succeed on steam, that I have no doubt.
 

But to do that the core world content is going to need a good bit of work before that steam release, I know Anet can do it but I do have concerns that they won't have the time to get it done before steam.

That will be very disappointing tbh but I wouldn't go so far as to say it'll doom the game, it won't.. at best it will just hurt it's potential a bit.. which I believe Gw2 will recover from, though never to the extent it could have achieved had it done more to impress players from the start of their adventures.

Check out this video from JSH if your interested in his far more explanatory and thought out take.
There is a few profanities in the video though, figured I should mention that.

[Diktator.8927]

36 minutes ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Only if the game is spectacular usually, or has some other kind of advantage, like WoW having little in the way of competition early on (for the kind of MMO it was) allowing it to amass a huge fanbase before serious competition came around.

In the vast majority of cases the subfee kills the game and forces it into P2W/F2P situation as we've seen with so many MMO's over the years.

So sure a subfee can be good for a singular game that hordes all the customers and succeeds because of it like WoW..

But it is atrociously bad for the genre and the market, actively stifling competition and by extent innovation by crushing hope for anything different.
Guildwars rejecting the subfee was a smart play because of that, they went their own way, did things differently and it paid off greatly.

I agree with what you've said here.

The reason so many games have abandoned sub fees and went f2p, might be because they're not great games. I know most of them ended up being p2w after that, or got ruined by publishers. 
But there's also a reason why a certain hyped game, currently in development, is looking to go for a sub fee model on release.

Both can work, the reason why people might suggest a sub fee introduced to GW2 is because of this thing you've said.

36 minutes ago, Teratus.2859 said:

For the most part it's not about money, it's about time, manpower and priorities.

36 minutes ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Clearly Anet does care about a lot of things that players bring up regularly.. and it's not that they don't want to fix those things, it's that they don't have the time or ability to do so right away, but when they do get that time.. to be fair they really do try to fix them.

Time is money, manpower requires money, and priorities have to be set due to a lack of time, money or manpower. It would be so much better if they had a larger team that would be able to tackle a lot of issues at once, change/redesign certain systems, while also creating new content.

Which is why it seems like they would need an increased revenue. There is a lot of stuff that needs to be fixed or updated, and then on top of that you have to work on new expansions. I'm aware they are doing a lot better now. I've actually started playing the game properly after EoD release. I'm glad to see they are working on stuff, and releasing content. I just hope it continues, as I want the game to be as best as it can be.

36 minutes ago, Teratus.2859 said:

The biggest problem with that steam release though is first impressions.
It really doesn't matter if Gw2 gets like 10 million more players in the first month it releases on steam if 9.5 million stop playing after 2-3 months because they get bored of the game.

Exactly my point. Bringing in new players is fine, but you also need to get them to spend money on expansions, and gem store.

You'd think they would sort some of the issues out before releasing the game on Steam. But knowing their marketing, the Steam release might go unnoticed lol
I agree that the core Tyria could use some love. I've leveled a character from 0-80, then another character that I've created previously a few years ago from 60-80. I barely could make myself level up another character again, I used about 30 tomes of knowledge, and the rest I had to go through the painful experience of leveling up in core game. Don't get me wrong, it's not that bad when you do it for the first time. But it gets really bad when you get to experience the expansions and compare that experience to the core map.

 

I do watch Josh, and I absolutely agree with the video. One sentence that stood out is definitely "Good content should not be a reward for enduring mediocre content". Perfectly describes the leveling process in most MMORPGs.

Overall I agree with what you've said, though I also agree with the OP about certain things they've brought up.

 

 

Edited June 23, 2022 by Diktator.8927

[Cuks.8241]

I agree with all but subscription and cast bars

[Teratus.2859]

4 minutes ago, Diktator.8927 said:

I agree with what you've said here.

The reason so many games have abandoned sub fees and went f2p, might be because they're not great games. I know most of them ended up being p2w after that, or got ruined by publishers. 
But there's also a reason why a certain hyped game, currently in development, is looking to go for a sub fee model on release.

Both can work, the reason why people might suggest a sub fee introduced to GW2 is because of this thing you've said.

Haha yeah there's definitely some truth to what you said there about them being "not great games"

Although having played a few myself I wouldn't say they're bad game though.. many outdated ones by todays standard for sure but I have enjoyed a good few of them in the past and there are some good ideas floating around in those games too.

I would still prefer a market that isn't too based around the concept of "get gd" though.. which it kinda is with subfees if you think about it.

I'm a big fan of indie games as well and we've seen them thrive in recent years despite their complete inability to compete with the kind of resources AAA companies posses.. many would even argue they're better games too.

I doubt we'd have ever seen that happen if in general AAA games were hogging all the money via constant paywalls and paid content updates and people became unwilling to take a gamble on anything else due to their monetary commitments to other games.

That's basically how i've long seen the MMO market with the Subfee element.. if everyone's playing those 3-4 games then why would I play this other one that interests me when nobody else is and it will probably die off in a year or so or end up filled with P2W stuff?.. not worth the risk..

14 minutes ago, Diktator.8927 said:

Time is money, manpower requires money, and priorities have to be set due to a lack of time, money or manpower. It would be so much better if they had a larger team that would be able to tackle a lot of issues at once, change/redesign certain systems, while also creating new content.

Which is why it seems like they would need an increased revenue. There is a lot of stuff that needs to be fixed or updated, and then on top of that you have to work on new expansions. I'm aware they are doing a lot better now. I've actually started playing the game properly after EoD release. I'm glad to see they are working on stuff, and releasing content. I just hope it continues, as I want the game to be as best as it can be.

Well they did have a bigger team a while back but as I said their focus was on other projects not Gw2 which didn't pan out in the end and they all got cancelled and people were laid off sadly.

 

Part of me does often wonder what Gw2 would be like today had Anet been giving Gw2 100% of it's attention and manpower.

Maybe we will see down the road but so far i'm pretty happy with how things are going for this game and there is a lot to look forward to.

Specially for a lore fan like me who's very curious to know what's going to happen with the Dragons gone.
I am especially curious about the situation going on in the ocean depths now that we know the Sea Dragon wasn't the monster terrorizing everything down there.. that story really, really interests me 😄 

17 minutes ago, Diktator.8927 said:

Exactly my point. Bringing in new players is fine, but you also need to get them to spend money on expansions, and gem store.

You'd think they would sort some of the issues out before releasing the game on Steam. But knowing their marketing, the Steam release might go unnoticed lol
I agree that the core Tyria could use some love. I've leveled a character from 0-80, then another character that I've created previously a few years ago from 60-80. I barely could make myself level up another character again, I used about 30 tomes of knowledge, and the rest I had to go through the painful experience of leveling up in core game. Don't get me wrong, it's not that bad when you do it for the first time. But it gets really bad when you get to experience the expansions and compare that experience to the core map.

I know the feeling too, I've got 24 characters myself and I really dislike skipping story content so all of them are at various points in the stories.
Several of them have world completion as well so the core world content is something im probably most familiar with in this game over the expansions.

I fully agree that the difference between expansions and core are massive at times.. even the quality of the game itself can be very obvious in some content.. Lighting , textures etc..

I am very passionate about the need to go back and fixing up the core game, probably too much if i'm honest XD

But regardless of my bias I do feel it is incredibly important to do something to improve the core game before the steam release.

31 minutes ago, Diktator.8927 said:

I do watch Josh, and I absolutely agree with the video. One sentence that stood out is definitely "Good content should not be a reward for enduring mediocre content". Perfectly describes the leveling process in most MMORPGs.

I certainly agree with that quote as well.

 

It doesn't matter if a game gets good down the road if most players will get bored and tune out before the good stuff.

I've also said many times what you did earlier as well, I want the whole game to be amazing.
I stand by that adamantly as well, Gw2 is a great game with so much potential and I want to see that potential brought out everywhere in the game.

It's why I supported LWS1 coming back.
Why I supported easy mode raids.

Why I support fixing and improving the core world experience.

Why I'm a huge supporter of underwater content and expanding it.

Basically everything I support for Gw2 comes from that same place of love for the game lol

[SuavePuppy.2809]

5 hours ago, Diktator.8927 said:

meaningful rewards instead of getting a bunch of mats and stuff

What would you consider as more meaningful rewards?