ANet Update Announcement Feedback

[Vayne.8563]

13 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

Thats a low bar for expectations though.

This post has nothing to do with expectations.

I'm saying giving you more information doesn't do anything in the end if the company doesn't deliver. Anet posted a blog in which they offered four things that never appeared anywhere before...mouse cursor contrast option, something to increase the accessiblity of raids, not getting thrown out of bounds in story instances, and no repair things.

I had no prior notice that these were in the game, but knowing in advance changes very little for me. I still heard about  them before they made their way into the game. It seems to me that you're talking the wrong thing away from my comment.

 

I wasn't holding Star Citizen up as a good example of how stuff should be done...I was holding it up as an example of how little getting information from the development team far in advance means in the larger scheme of things

 

 

[Saharo.5381]

Only thing I'm happy about is the cursor improvement lol.

The rest... might be the worst changes I've ever seen. Especially on professions. Some things you really shouldn't tinker with, but here they are, altering the DNA of entire classes....

Face value, raid embolden seems like a participation award/free hand out, coming from someone who recently got into raiding. A number of help/learning tools could've been implemented rather than a blanket buff to carry with little effort/mech proficiency.

As for all the profession reworks and boon redistribution... what problem were they even trying to solve? Why are we inching towards a more boring class/build singularity? (more like why the hell are you removing stealth from thief traitlines?)

Cause it looks to me like a lot of these "fixes" were just sprinkling boons without any thought. Some classes have synergies with traitlines and utilities that make builds stronger. You can't just slap alac or quickness on things in your attempt to create more "build diversity". Did anyone in any game mode outside of squad content even ask for this? Some classes/specs are going to be stronger in some roles than other classes. The ones backed by synergies are almost always going to perform better, and thus be favored in 10-man content.

In other words, why are they trying to make QuickWar, AlacRanger, or AlacTempest a thing? Are they going to overhaul entire traitlines to support these setups? Why not improve on existing traits rather than mess with the DNA of a class?

[Solitude.2097]

13 hours ago, Saharo Gravewind.5120 said:

As for all the profession reworks and boon redistribution... what problem were they even trying to solve? Why are we inching towards a more boring class/build singularity?

Cause it looks to me like a lot of these "fixes" were just sprinkling boons without any thought.

Bring your favorite class , rather than forcing yourself to bring Spotter/Spirits .

(does this mean that Warriors can use Shouts or anything else ,for the first time?)

[Fueki.4753]

21 minutes ago, Solitude.2097 said:

Bring your favorite class , rather than forcing yourself to bring Spotter/Spirits .

(does this mean that Warriors can use Shouts or anything else ,for the first time?)

Warrior likely will no longer be welcome in many organized parties, because they no longer bring anything that's beneficial to the party. The Banners' unique effects are the one thing on Warrior that isn't vastly outshined by other professions and they'll be gone.

It really leaves a bad taste that they want remove most (if not all) unique effects that aren't Guardian's Ashes of the Just. But it's not surprising that Guardian gets preferable treatment once again.

Edited June 25, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[wraith.7243]

We need a public test server.  If you want to attract endgame players from other games, we need to have the tools to have a back and forth dialogue with the devs regarding class changes. 

[Ashen.2907]

16 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

Other than some of the new EoD class specs (which for me have been amazingly fun) i had not seen any improvement in classes over GW2 lifetime, its been a never ending list of nerfs and debuffs since release.. Its great if others disagree but for me its been a hot mess classes wise..

Ele: tempest and weaver are both straight up superior to core.

Guardian: Firebrand is arguably the best spec in the game and drayon hunter is at least as good as core.

Warrior: Berzerker is superior to core.

Ranger: Both druid and Soulbeast are superior to core.

Mesmer: Chrono and Mirage are superior to core.

Engineer: Both Mechanist and Scrapper are superior to core.

Necro: All three elite specs are massive improvements over core.

Thief: All three specs are superior to core.

Revenant: not sure about Vindicator but Herald and Renegade are both superior to core.

With some exceptions all classes have been powercreeped with each elite spec release. This isnt a matter of opinion, it is objective fact. 

The issue is, to me at least, that some options are clearly favored in this process. 

[Khisanth.2948]

On 6/24/2022 at 9:53 AM, aleister.1425 said:

Just looking at my endless repair canister with sadness. Knowing in a few days time it was just a huge waste of grinding. As for the rest we shall see. 

It'll save you from having to interact with an anvil every 12h!

Shouldn't be much different from its previous use.

[Fueki.4753]

13 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Warrior: Berzerker is superior to core.

While its numbers are superior, everything else is not.

Locking the Bursts behind the annoying Berserk mechanic, which also reduces the Berserker survivability for no real reason (the so-called trade-offs are not a real reason), just makes Berserker feel far worse than my core Discipline/Strength/Arms Warrior.

Before the 2019 dework, Berserker was far superior to the joke with have now.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Flapjackson.1596]

I want to give my feedback on Warrior:

- The fury trait being in Arms is an obvious flaw. It should be in a traitline actually used by power.

- Warhorn change is fine. Warrior getting more boon access is good in general.

- Spellbreaker doesn't get any PvE improvements? While Bladesworn gets a DPS buff? The priorities are off here.

- Banners:

So this is the meat and potatoes of the warrior changes. Banners were really bad back in their original form where you picked them up and carried them around. That we would return to that form of Banner is baffling. The big problem with warrior is it has been defined by Banner buffs. That is all it really has beyond DPS. Deleting that means that now warrior is left to compete with other quickness providers and has zero benefits to convince you to take it over a far better quick like FB.

 

The worst part of this is that the Banner isn't actually gone! It's still there! We will likely need 2-3 of them on our bar to provide even passable quickness. This means that they are still taking up space while being an even worse utility than they were previously. Support options are super limited because of the real estate taken up. DPS is hurt because you have to carry around Banners again. Rather than make Banners the source of boons for warrior, I would like to see traits which make Banners a space in which other utility skills (and weapon skills like warhorn) can provide boons. Choose your Banner and choose the utilities to determine what you provide (giving the new warrior synergy with shout healing that it currently lacks). Give warrior some actual flexibility for once. 

[Dante.1508]

8 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Ele: tempest and weaver are both straight up superior to core.

Guardian: Firebrand is arguably the best spec in the game and drayon hunter is at least as good as core.

Warrior: Berzerker is superior to core.

Ranger: Both druid and Soulbeast are superior to core.

Mesmer: Chrono and Mirage are superior to core.

Engineer: Both Mechanist and Scrapper are superior to core.

Necro: All three elite specs are massive improvements over core.

Thief: All three specs are superior to core.

Revenant: not sure about Vindicator but Herald and Renegade are both superior to core.

With some exceptions all classes have been powercreeped with each elite spec release. This isnt a matter of opinion, it is objective fact. 

The issue is, to me at least, that some options are clearly favored in this process. 

So.. Other than Engi and Firebrand.. still feeling that progress after all the 28th nerfs?

[Wielder Of Magic.3950]

If anything, this patch but also the discord leaks showed to me that Anet/Anets devs believe in the exact opposite of what I personally believe.

 

Me: I believe balance should be fair and equal without bias.  
Anet dev: Balances based on what they personally like or dislike.

Balancing should happen without your personal feelings being involved. A dev that hates Mirage Axe should still be able to fix the problems Mirage Axe has, and not decide to randomly buff something else simply because they like that weapon more.  
In the same vein, if something you personally like overperforms, you should be able to set those feelings aside and nerf it. You should not, because you designed and loved Mechanist, decide to buff it just because. And if something you dislike, like for example elementalist, could use help, you should not massively nerf it because of your own feelings towards the class. Neutrality and fairness, not biased.

 

Me: Act professional when talking about people, including clients or customers, no matter the environment.  
Anet dev: Actually voices dislike and disdain towards players.

I get it, people are dicks, clients are high maintenace and customers are more often wrong than right. And you do not have to take abuse lying down. But there is no reason to actively insult a part of your passionate playerbase, even going as far to insinuate that you are going to enjoy their tears and resulting salt, as if you love upsetting them. You represent the company in that discord. Never forget that.

 

Me: If you balance something you should have a deep and intricate knowledge of the class you are going to balance.  
Anet dev: Plays less than a year, only a limited amount of classes/specs, and still manages to have quite a few embarrasing takes.

Nobody can know everything I get it. But the lack of knowledge displayed by Anet devs about classes is highly worrying, especially when said devs admit they actually DO balance (at least partially) based on benchmarks and that they often have to look at the wiki what a skill or trait does. You cannot properly balance something if you do not understand how it works. Increase your skill and knowledge, hire more people, or split balancing into smaller chunks so you are able to focus more ( one class per person for example. We used to have class leads for this in the past).

 

Me: If someone is doing something that is very complex and hard, it should be rewarded with a stronger or better result than someone who is doing something similar but on a very basic or easy level.  
Anet dev: Unwilling to reward complexity or difficulty, but wants to make everything easier instead to the point that something easy with 3 button presses should have the same outcome as something hard on a different prof that takes 50 button presses.

I do not argue that there is a need for simple builds for those that cannot handle a complex class or 50 step piano rotations. Rarely anyone does. This is why LI builds and simplified rotations exist, where you get a big chunk of the result for a substiantal lower amount of effort. But mastering your class and rotation SHOULD ALWAYS be rewarded with a better result. Higher DPS, better heals, better boons, you name it. Improving yourself (horizontal progression?) should matter. Because if not, why would people try? Why learn a 50 step elementalist rotation if I can do the same by pressing 4 buttons on Mechanist?  This design philosophy is worrying. A spec should have a LI option and a, for the lack of a better words, 'try hard' option that is harder, and thus gets rewarded with a better result. How much better can be up for debate.

 

Me: Classes should have unique things to bring to the table when it comes to utilities, playstyles and traits.  
Anet dev:Uniqueness is kitten, simplify everything as much as possible and take away unique stuff whenever we can.

I get it, banners were overcentralising and many crit-cap calculations assumed Spotter.  
That needed a change. But now you just took something unique away and gave something generic back in return, in almost every case something passive or completely worthless that even deleted an entire class from high end PvE. Not even a unique playstyle. Everytime Anet takes something away, they give something less active and more simplified in return.

At this point I honestly wonder if I should continue playing this game, considering Anet apparently believes the complete opposite of what I consider to be good, fun and engaging.

[Flapjackson.1596]

38 minutes ago, Wielder Of Magic.3950 said:

Me: If someone is doing something that is very complex and hard, it should be rewarded with a stronger or better result than someone who is doing something similar but on a very basic or easy level.  
Anet dev: Unwilling to reward complexity or difficulty, but wants to make everything easier instead to the point that something easy with 3 button presses should have the same outcome as something hard on a different prof that takes 50 button presses.

I do not argue that there is a need for simple builds for those that cannot handle a complex class or 50 step piano rotations. Rarely anyone does. This is why LI builds and simplified rotations exist, where you get a big chunk of the result for a substiantal lower amount of effort. But mastering your class and rotation SHOULD ALWAYS be rewarded with a better result. Higher DPS, better heals, better boons, you name it. Improving yourself (horizontal progression?) should matter. Because if not, why would people try? Why learn a 50 step elementalist rotation if I can do the same by pressing 4 buttons on Mechanist?  This design philosophy is worrying. A spec should have a LI option and a, for the lack of a better words, 'try hard' option that is harder, and thus gets rewarded with a better result. How much better can be up for debate.

To further your point, not only is motivation hurt when complexity isn’t rewarded, but it’s simply a reality of encounter design that you can’t have equal balance across varying complexity. 
 

When content gets harder, simpler builds inherently perform better. It’s easy to look at damage on a golem and say “these numbers should be equal”. The reality is that the complex builds will always struggle more in actual gameplay, and their performance should be comparatively rewarded. The simpler builds don’t need the same damage. They already are getting the advantage of simplicity.

[Astralporing.1957]

32 minutes ago, Flapjackson.1596 said:

To further your point, not only is motivation hurt when complexity isn’t rewarded, but it’s simply a reality of encounter design that you can’t have equal balance across varying complexity. 
 

When content gets harder, simpler builds inherently perform better. It’s easy to look at damage on a golem and say “these numbers should be equal”. The reality is that the complex builds will always struggle more in actual gameplay, and their performance should be comparatively rewarded. The simpler builds don’t need the same damage. They already are getting the advantage of simplicity.

My personal take on it is somewhere in the middle. Meaning, complexity should be rewarded, but only to a certain point. Basically, all builds should have workable simplified rotations at which you would be able to reach a large percentage of that build's available dps/effectiveness. And then you should allow for optimizing it up a bit for those willing to go a step (or few steps) more. Both tiers should be balanced for different classes independently (meaning, LI should be balanced against other LIs, and complex builds against each other).

Since complexity is never the same, slight adjustments could be made accounting for that, but at the same time extremely high complexity should never give build a free ticket to massively outperform others (even if that complexity is realistically reachable only by .1% of the playerbase). At the same time, though, if a highly complex build/rotation has to be nerfed due to outperforming, then an adjustments should also be made to help simplify it a bit to compensate.

You should never have a situation where some class designed to be complex is suffering due to it, because that complexity does not pay off. And if you think that it's just not possible to let it pay off enough to compensate for required complexity, then that basic design idea that forces this complexity has to go.

[pallas.8150]

A class should never have the lowest hit point pool, lowest armor rating, highest rotation for damage, and still only be able to do as much damage as things with all around higher (and easier) ratings and traits. There is no risk v reward.

 

If their goal is for everything to do the exact same thing, then the first thing they should do is ensure base stats and armor ratings are the same across the board. Otherwise, what is the point?

Edited June 26, 2022 by pallas.8150

[Woof.8246]

12 hours ago, Wielder Of Magic.3950 said:

Me: If someone is doing something that is very complex and hard, it should be rewarded with a stronger or better result than someone who is doing something similar but on a very basic or easy level.  

 

Anet dev: Unwilling to reward complexity or difficulty, but wants to make everything easier instead to the point that something easy with 3 button presses should have the same outcome as something hard on a different prof that takes 50 button presses.

This is what i agree . Elementalist should the ones , reaching 34k DPS (and not 51k with the Soulbeast) and we should nerf the other less complex to do around 24k .

At some point , either we agree of what is the  "allowed max dps" we can have in the game , or start categorizing them based on each class complexity .

Edit: But the problem is , that some raid parties could benefit from this to become the top dogs . It might lead , to some kind of conflict...

Otherwise the Devs should implant a new Agony-Resistance mechanic for instance content, where the area get minor effects at the side of the map for some seconds , like extra Roots-Flowers , representing that HoT specs feel the presence of the HoT end boss lurking in that area and terrify them , leading to a loss of dps . Damage is stored in a "Blood Bank" and explode after 2 sec (if stored damage> 8000 , then a reduction will be enabled) . After few secs , wind with sand is enabled , indicating the that PoF specs are getting a reduction .

And Core specs are removed from these mechanics , also again 100% crit with Knight gear and they gain bonus stats , based on might .So they can only be the "true damage dealers" , while offering next to none support

Edited June 26, 2022 by Woof.8246

[Lottie.5370]

On 6/25/2022 at 12:13 PM, Fueki.4753 said:

Warrior likely will no longer be welcome in many organized parties, because they no longer bring anything that's beneficial to the party. The Banners' unique effects are the one thing on Warrior that isn't vastly outshined by other professions and they'll be gone.

It really leaves a bad taste that they want remove most (if not all) unique effects that aren't Guardian's Ashes of the Just. But it's not surprising that Guardian gets preferable treatment once again.

 

Guardian's Ashes performs the same way as thief venoms or soulbeast's stance shares. It's not a unique effect, it makes you deal a condition on your next hit, exactly the same as venoms or vulture stance.

[Jski.6180]

Play classes that they normally dont play as well as builds no a bunker tempest is not enofe different then a bunker gurds and try to do content with out gurds in your group. Play dps ele in all game types CORE ele if you cant win then there is something wrong with your balancing.

Get out of your bubbles and safe zones anet dev it is destroying your game.

[Artemis.8034]

On 6/24/2022 at 2:50 AM, Biziut.3594 said:

I agree with you, but under one condition. What do you think a reward should be for clearing a wing with this upcomming buff? Becouse in my opinion there should be no Killproof for such kill, significantly lesser rewards (not like they are amazing in normal run), and no ability to finish any achivment except ones that can be done in already cleared wing. I think if ANet won't restrict it that way than maybe only few players will use it in intended way, when most will just take easy kill and won't bother to invest time into normal encounters. But these are just my thoughts, guess we shall see what it will look in reality soon enough.

I agree no KP or progress toward legendary armor, because you have to clear hearts to progress and no I dont think an easier buff mode should award that.. As for the ascended boss items I do think that should be allowed but at a lowered rate. Ascended isnt even status anymore , most overworld players have oodles of ascended armor from crafting, and plenty of legendary weapons just from doing open world. So I think the ascended stuff is fine, but i do think anything related to legendary armor should not be awarded.  Also as a side thought, look at people that buy raid carries to leggy armor and titles, yet no one seems to mind that because guilds are getting paid to carry, but you still have unskilled players getting the rewards so its kind of hypocritical to bemoan an easier raid mode.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Artemis.8034

[Myror.7521]

On 6/25/2022 at 1:13 PM, Fueki.4753 said:

Warrior likely will no longer be welcome in many organized parties, because they no longer bring anything that's beneficial to the party. The Banners' unique effects are the one thing on Warrior that isn't vastly outshined by other professions and they'll be gone.

It really leaves a bad taste that they want remove most (if not all) unique effects that aren't Guardian's Ashes of the Just. But it's not surprising that Guardian gets preferable treatment once again.

 The best thing about that warr fact. Its not only the banner build that is now more or less useless. Its just the whole class cause they nerf the things but dont bring something to actually compensate the lost of dps. So they killed the Support side by dont move the banner traitline into tactics (like bruh its litterly the Support traitline itself!). No they also killed the dps only build by give the Bonus 5% crit chance into a traitline that is like 80% condition only used. 

 

Other said they made good changes but they forget to actually sweap the traitlineskills. That is how i see the Patch lel.