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How do you feel about the Thief changes?


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I'm somewhat excited for the changes and I actually think they made some changes that are constructive in creating the kind of thief gameplay that both thief players and people who hate fighting them can appreciate. I like that you are rewarded for quick in and out stealth gameplay and I think they actually did a solid job with reworking Shadow Arts - 8/10.

 

That said, I think they still didn't quite hit the mark for Specter support, but they did alright I guess. Thaaaankfully they did add some ally condi-cleanse via:

  • Shadow's Embrace: This trait now removes a damaging condition when entering or exiting stealth instead of at every interval while in stealth. This effect also applies to stealth granted to allies.

I do wish there were more options to stealth allies, though - or the ally condi-cleanse was attached to a different mechanic like wells maybe.

 

Lastly, I'm of course disappointed the focus was almost entirely on Shadow Arts and Deception. Acro, 300s traits... plz 😢

 

Also...big F to all the Wars and Eles out there ❤️

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i like it, less frustrating stealth spam, more aoe support for team fight, or helping a losing 1v1. stealth rezzing always pretty impactful.

though probably daredevil taking big sustain nerf, since everybody so fast now.

Edited by Lighter.5631
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Acro needs really a rework. This Traitline is such a pile of trash it really makes no sense that Anet didn't do anything abou that traitline. Also Prepardness needs to be Baseline because trickery is mandatory (only Specter is viable without it) and kills alot of theoretical builds. You can't play any Build without it, thats pretty sad state.

 

 

Edited by Grebcol.5984
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On 6/26/2022 at 1:14 AM, Jumpel.3972 said:

Because they remove the cd reduction for deception skill on SA trait

They did a cheeky Shadowstep nerf that way too, they specifically didn't compensate it. But I guess superspeed > +50% movespeed in stealth? We need actual numbers on uptime to judge.

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18 minutes ago, Szymon.5369 said:

They did a cheeky Shadowstep nerf that way too, they specifically didn't compensate it.

And Smoke Screen because they nerf it before EoD cause of the cd reduction trait but they don't revert/reduce cd.

 

21 minutes ago, Szymon.5369 said:

We need actual numbers on uptime to judge.

Yep it's to say without duration and if there is a icd on those traits

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As a shadow arts enjoyer that was making the nerfed version work, I'm really confused as to why they would rebuff it after nerfing it to punish stealth play, when critical strikes/acrobatics/daredevil had so much room to encourage a more visible, more telegraphed, more sustainy thief. 

Like... we spent half a year to drive in a circle? Do you want us to use stealth or not? 

Update: Never mind its less convenient stealth access, so harder to play.

Edited by Azure The Heartless.3261
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On 6/27/2022 at 4:01 AM, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

180 DEGREES TURN ON EVERY SHADOW ARTS NERF LET'S GO, WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG

Not -all- of them but most of them. stealth and steal and stealth on heal are gone, but in exchange every thief taking the GM for ini gain is just going to be able to camp instead of using stealth as a target drop. Run away easier with superspeed.

 

 

 

Edited by Azure The Heartless.3261
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20 hours ago, Szymon.5369 said:

They did a cheeky Shadowstep nerf that way too, they specifically didn't compensate it.

Would you rather it got a direct nerf? Shadowstep is one of THE best skills in the game and it getting a bit of a nerf won't hurt it at all. It doesn't need compensation. 

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Update to my opinion:

 

Reworks opens up some decap build options. I hate it but it has some promise. It's not thief death, its not op, its just new.

 

removing stealth on heal and steal + removing deception cd reduction is kinda cringe, but that frees up some 

Spoiler

Other options that I will now proceed to shut the kitten up about because the devs like nerfing my kitten

 

so w/e

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On 6/25/2022 at 9:54 PM, xKole.9175 said:

Dude, I literally JUST made a build with Seal Area for the first time and was going to try it out and play around this weekend. Saw the notes... nvm I guess lol.

Seal Area are still a strong skill. I use it defensively to have a safe space to retreat to when waiting for cool downs. 
 

Initiative regeneration on deadeye and daredevil is through the roof now. I can ditch short bow on maps that don’t require too much vertical movement and take bound instead. Damage, superspeed, stealth and 3 initiative every time. Played around with acrobatics instead of trickery - which works now because of the near infinite initiative access. Ran sword/pistol as second weapon set for the steal reset. 
 

They somehow made stealth AND mobility better with this patch 🤦‍♂️

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2 hours ago, Bazsi.2734 said:

People think this is a nerf... seriusly, it's not. Infinite initative and permanent superspeed... this is broken OP. I want the old thief back.


High CDs and no stealth on steal, ye, really op, lol

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13 minutes ago, anjo.6143 said:


High CDs and no stealth on steal, ye, really op, lol

You just need to make a small sidestep to go through the door, but if you insist you can keep running into the wall aswell. If you do not adapt, if you try to play SA the exact same way it was played before, of course it's not going to work.

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I tried the new SA line, I like that their promoting entering and exiting stealth by giving thief ini etc, and the ini gain makes thief feel more smooth to play. I totally understand why streamers and Nike etc talk about the dumpster fire that is feedback on forums. Thieves ini cost have been constantly inflated over the past 5 years and with thief's heavy reliance on trickery line also being prevalent forever its crazy to me that u guys are complaining about the ini gain on entering and exiting stealth. Not only does this change alleviate some of the constant cost increases to ini but also makes it more feasible for a thief build to not take trickery. What dev reading these forums wouldn't be confused? We get a nerf u guys complain, I do as well but when certain traits are buffs .....well u guys still complain lmao complete clown show. Maybe next they will remove 300 sec traits and rework acro, than we can complain the cds on the 300 sec traits are now too low, or if they slightly buff damage from crit strikes line maybe we could complain that the damage is too good and that we want it nefed down again so we can complain that the lines not worth taking again cuz the damage gain isn't worth it. Thief relied to hard on sb 5 for mobility,we complain about that and how the devs basically gave all classes the mobility of thief so thief gets superseded......u guys complain. Seriously lol.

Return stealth on steal, stealth on heal as both had good synergy with builds, leave rest as is and push for them to address acro line, it should be next priority.

Edited by Psycoprophet.8107
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I was mostly excited to try Specter support in PvP because I was playing a lot of it before the patch, but I'm having trouble adjusting to the changes. I feel like this was much more of a buff to D/P Daredevil than to support. Losing the stealth on both steal and heal hit my support build pretty hard and there just aren't enough options for stealth on scepter to really take advantage of how the new SA traits work.

 

Setting up combo fields to cleanse allies or grant prot (and then lose the ini trait - not worth imo), just doesn't feel feasible considering how small the fields are and that you have to swap to shroud to blast the fields that also don't last particularly long enough to let sit and wait for allies to enter. Also, you could Pistol 5 > Shortbow 2 (not that I take SB anyway)... use all your ini to cleanse 2 condis from an ally. It all seems like a lot of effort for low payout when Rune of the Soldier does large range, easy, and basically passive condi cleanse for the support king Core Guard.

I just feel like the options to stealth allies to trigger those support traits aren't quite enough. I'm running Shadow Refuge and Blinding Powder, and I thought about trying Deadly Arts for Improv to get the util recharge ( also, because you can't get stolen skills, maybe give +5% shroud regen on this trait) - and while I agree that Trickery isn't necessary for D/P anymore, I still feel obligated on Specter support. I'm just not seeing much synergy outside of SA and Trickery on Specter.

 

Anyway, they should have just added a trait in Specter that cleanses condis on Wells. I'd feel more inclined to take the support specs utils than being shoehorned into taking Deception skills.

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On 6/28/2022 at 6:38 AM, CutesySylveon.8290 said:

Would you rather it got a direct nerf? Shadowstep is one of THE best skills in the game and it getting a bit of a nerf won't hurt it at all. It doesn't need compensation. 

 

Nah, I rather meant that "shadowstep" never appeared in the notes that way, hence cheeky. I think it's fine, it'd probaby still be considered an autopick even with 60s cd, and the changes seem overwhelmingly favorable for Thief.

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