The alacrity change is actually good.

[Silverpoopoo.1476]

People are complaining about the alacrity not being put on the same trait as the healing buff.

But the entire point of traits is to produce meaningful choice options, which all have tradeoffs. I think creating a hard choice between more heals or alacrity is a good thing that will give players a meaningful choice to make.

That being said, elementalist is still way underpowered for how much effort it requires to play. I mostly play elementalist and necromancer and I gotta say: playing elementalist feels like work whereas playing necromancer feels like I'm actually playing a game for fun.

Playing elementalist truly feels like playing the game on hard mode for no reason.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Silverpoopoo.1476

[xspecterx.9082]

Except firebrand, mechanist and Druid can provide both without tradeoffs. 

[Serephen.3420]

You could say that in a bubble, but not when looking at the competition for alacrity providers.

[Jski.6180]

Its fine as long as its viable of use. If you have a 4 sec cast time 5 sec delay and a 20 sec cd for 6 sec (12 when you "need" to run 100% boon duration). If its any less then 6 sec it becomes worthless as an boon and the -100% movement effect duration simply becomes stronger as an def chose for an tempest.

There is a lost for simply having it added to the game all be it an rare chose to start with. Moving from an aggressive chose a def chose and a support chose to just a aggressive chose to 2 support choose is not good for tempest over all if one support chose is far worst then the other. Yes tempest can heal just fine with out healing auras but if the alacrity is not perma in any game type for the massive risk you must put you self though to use it then its a dead trait.

What makes things a bit worst over all is that they are giving barrier support to weaver (all be it a lowest amount due to bad scaling). Barrier support on tempest WOULD be better then alacrity support. Alacrity support on weaver would be better then barrier support.

[Silverpoopoo.1476]

2 hours ago, xspecterx.9082 said:

Except firebrand, mechanist and Druid can provide both without tradeoffs. 

Which is why they should be nerfed.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

9 minutes ago, Silverpoopoo.1476 said:

Which is why they should be nerfed.

The guy who made the patch is apparently a HUGE Firebrand fanboy.

So thats not gonna happen.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

How is it supposed to work?  Serious question: how do you run a heal tempest with alacrity?  I hear "use staff" but I'll have to constantly switch attunements to get enough overloads to spam alacrity, and the staff only heals in water.  

[Dadnir.5038]

3 hours ago, xspecterx.9082 said:

Except firebrand, mechanist and Druid can provide both without tradeoffs. 

I doubt Druid will be used at all after the patch.

Tempest will be good at providing alacrity when built for dps, which, like the OP said, isn't a bad thing. You can see the dark side of the change and say: "I won't be able to provide alacrity while healing". Or you can see the bright side and say: "Great I'll be able to provide alacrity with just minimal tweak to my dps rotation."

 

[Noodle Ant.1605]

47 minutes ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

How is it supposed to work?  Serious question: how do you run a heal tempest with alacrity?  I hear "use staff" but I'll have to constantly switch attunements to get enough overloads to spam alacrity, and the staff only heals in water.  

you apply heal cata concepts, which involves heavily relying on the 1k heal tick from regen + (traited) soothing mist and addresses the misconception that ele "cant heal" outside of water. unlike cata which does full element cycle before going back into water again, alac htemp will probably end up doing water -> fire (overload) -> water -> earth (overload) -> repeat (can air in between for lulz) to maintain soothing mist and proc healing ripple. idk where this "use staff"  thing came from, its an option with its own strength and weaknesses (even more so since camping water isnt possible), d/wh is still perfectly useable and has its own toolset to play around with

if you accidentally or really need to hit water overload, you need to stay in water for an addtional ~10s (or 8s since alac) to offset the 20s (16s) cd (so it becomes 8s until you can switch back into water again). in emergency, wash the pain away, signet of water and ice elemental (elite) serve as burst heals which are fortunately not limited to water (which youll leave for only ~8s anyway)

the healing will obviously not compare to htemp camping water staff (where you could abuse that raw healing to facetank stuff thats not supposed to be facetanked) but considering its still 1k/s minimum on allies (and its passive), it means it should be fine as long as people dont willingly eat 1k dps worth of incoming dmg

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

1 hour ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

I doubt Druid will be used at all after the patch.

Tempest will be good at providing alacrity when built for dps, which, like the OP said, isn't a bad thing. You can see the dark side of the change and say: "I won't be able to provide alacrity while healing". Or you can see the bright side and say: "Great I'll be able to provide alacrity with just minimal tweak to my dps rotation."

 

 

Dark side would be : I don't really have the choice; devs want me to play fresh-air alacrity and nothing else.

[the krytan assassin.9235]

Currently the alac mirage is able to maintain a higher dps then a full dmge Tempest build. Since they're losing quite alot of dps because of forced suboptimal dmge rotations and stats & runes lost to boon duration to upkeep there no way they can compete with mesmers. Unless the temp gets a significant dmge boost or is able to dish out alot of healing there is no way they can compete with other professions 

 

[Markus.6415]

4 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

I doubt Druid will be used at all after the patch.

Tempest will be good at providing alacrity when built for dps, which, like the OP said, isn't a bad thing. You can see the dark side of the change and say: "I won't be able to provide alacrity while healing". Or you can see the bright side and say: "Great I'll be able to provide alacrity with just minimal tweak to my dps rotation."

 

I'm pretty sure AlacDruid will be used. And i think druids will have better healing than an Alac Healtempest.

[Erick Alastor.3917]

5 hours ago, Silverpoopoo.1476 said:

Which is why they should be nerfed.

What would be the reasoning behind nerfing 3 classes which are actually fun to play instead of bringing temp on par?
Over the years I've played everything remotely viable as healer, last being heal vindicator. I used to play chrono heal, hscrapper (when superseed and blasts used to heal), shout war, and nothing would come close to the the clunckiness of the new hAtemp (well maybe chrono).
So let's not destroy what's good in the name of what is still a bare thought. We can still reconsider this change.

[Alcatraznc.3869]

2 hours ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

 

Dark side would be : I don't really have the choice; devs want me to play fresh-air alacrity and nothing else.

 

I dont understand what you're trying to say. I mean a lot of spec would fall in that category:

 

-I want to provide quickness as an engineer but dev force me to play Scrapper with gyro and I want to play Holosmith

-I want to provide alacrity as a mesmer but dev force me to play Mirage S/S and spam dodge and I want to play Chronomancer

 

 

[xspecterx.9082]

4 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

I doubt Druid will be used at all after the patch.

Tempest will be good at providing alacrity when built for dps, which, like the OP said, isn't a bad thing. You can see the dark side of the change and say: "I won't be able to provide alacrity while healing". Or you can see the bright side and say: "Great I'll be able to provide alacrity with just minimal tweak to my dps rotation."

 

I am sure Druid will be used after patch, since Druid still provide a lot of utilities in raid like pushing, cc’ing, kiting and entangling etc. As for dps alacrity build, soulbeast alac and untamed alac might also work vs your point of dps temp alac

Edited June 26, 2022 by xspecterx.9082

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

34 minutes ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

I dont understand what you're trying to say. I mean a lot of spec would fall in that category:

 

-I want to provide quickness as an engineer but dev force me to play Scrapper with gyro and I want to play Holosmith

 

You can play power scrapper or healer scrapper but mostly you only need scrapper to play scrapper, no need for Tools, or Alchemy, inventions ..., Same with FB you can playe harrier or vipere, even diviner with virtues, honor or whatever, no need to talk about mechanist. Edit* to share quicknes//alacrity

 

On tempest the only viable mechanic to spam overloads is the fresh-air, which is core traitlane, which is 100% dedicated to power dps.  It'd be hard to tie any other spec and gameplay, like support/healing with water, mights; or condi ... Even power DPS could be lame if we need to gear with a lot of BD.

So unless we get 10+ sec of alacrity and we don't need to spam overloads every 3sec you wouldn't really have viable choice outside fresh air but  gimmick and hard to handle spec for the common player.

 

Alacrity on shouts or auras would have been more malleable.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Zhaid Zhem.6508
*to share alacrity/quickness

[Alcatraznc.3869]

11 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

 

You can play power scrapper or healer scrapper but mostly you only need scrapper to play scrapper, no need for Tools, or Alchemy, inventions ..., Same with FB you can playe harrier or vipere, even diviner with virtues, honor or whatever, no need to talk about mechanist.

 

On tempest the only viable mechanic to spam overloads is the fresh-air, which is core traitlane, which is 100% dedicated to power dps.  It'd be hard to tie any other spec and gameplay, like support/healing with water, mights; or condi ... Even power DPS could be lame if we need to gear with a lot of BD.

So unless we get 10+ sec of alacrity and we don't need to spam overloads every 3sec you wouldn't really have viable choice outside fresh air but  gimmick and hard to handle spec for the common player.

 

Alacrity on shouts or auras would have been more malleable.

 

Mh yeah that is a good point

[Endaris.1452]

I don't think I have ever seen the complete lack of synergy scrapper has with the core engineer kit being displayed as such an extremely positive thing.

And no, you don't need to play Fresh Air to provide Alacrity. The limiting factor is the waiting time in each attunement to unlock the overload and fresh air does absolutely nothing to change that.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Endaris.1452

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

33 minutes ago, Endaris.1452 said:

I don't think I have ever seen the complete lack of synergy scrapper has with the core engineer kit being displayed as such an extremely positive thing.

This is clearly  a distorted way to read the sentence in the thread.
Mandatory, or no, traits =/= lack of synergy  ... to share one boon.

 

33 minutes ago, Endaris.1452 said:

And no, you don't need to play Fresh Air to provide Alacrity. The limiting factor is the waiting time in each attunement to unlock the overload and fresh air does absolutely nothing to change that.

We don't know, that's the point.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

15 hours ago, Silverpoopoo.1476 said:

People are complaining about the alacrity not being put on the same trait as the healing buff.

But the entire point of traits is to produce meaningful choice options, which all have tradeoffs. I think creating a hard choice between more heals or alacrity is a good thing that will give players a meaningful choice to make.

That being said, elementalist is still way underpowered for how much effort it requires to play. I mostly play elementalist and necromancer and I gotta say: playing elementalist feels like work whereas playing necromancer feels like I'm actually playing a game for fun.

Playing elementalist truly feels like playing the game on hard mode for no reason.

 

Honestly, the grandmaster that this trait replaces (lucid singularity)...thank god... cause that GM trait was wack asf. Why was it even a grandmaster? I'm glad we replaced a pretty useless skill with a marginally useful skill. It would be a lot better if it had a different more complex effect...but you know what...at least anet is doing some reworks for once, and not straight up removals and making that already crappy trait have a 300 second cooldown. 

 

People are so mad at this patch but honestly...even though half the patch has some bad homogenization principles, we at least get some reworks. they should have just spent all of their time reworking skills instead of changing numbers...but whatever.

[AliamRationem.5172]

15 hours ago, Silverpoopoo.1476 said:

People are complaining about the alacrity not being put on the same trait as the healing buff.

But the entire point of traits is to produce meaningful choice options, which all have tradeoffs. I think creating a hard choice between more heals or alacrity is a good thing that will give players a meaningful choice to make.

That being said, elementalist is still way underpowered for how much effort it requires to play. I mostly play elementalist and necromancer and I gotta say: playing elementalist feels like work whereas playing necromancer feels like I'm actually playing a game for fun.

Playing elementalist truly feels like playing the game on hard mode for no reason.

That sounds great until you realize that not all classes are playing by the same rules. 

[Xaylin.1860]

9 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Tempest will be good at providing alacrity when built for dps, which, like the OP said, isn't a bad thing. You can see the dark side of the change and say: "I won't be able to provide alacrity while healing". Or you can see the bright side and say: "Great I'll be able to provide alacrity with just minimal tweak to my dps rotation."

I agree with you on that. It is probably better to make AlacTempest damage focussed rather than heal. Nothing good would come from Alacrity on Elemental Bastion. It would just get Tempest or Elementalist nerfed somewhere else. Even if people wouldn't agree: There needs to be purpose to those other GM traits and Alacrity can be that.

 

6 hours ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:

Currently the alac mirage is able to maintain a higher dps then a full dmge Tempest build.

 

While AlacMirage isn't on the same tier as FB imho, it is still busted and needs a rework. There is absolutely no point in looking at such builds as a point of reference.

 

4 hours ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

So unless we get 10+ sec of alacrity and we don't need to spam overloads every 3sec you wouldn't really have viable choice outside fresh air but  gimmick and hard to handle spec for the common player.

I do agree that the Fresh Air trait is an issue because it will be balanced around this. Personally, I have asked for similar traits for more Attunements a while ago. This would open up more build diversity even without considering Alacrity. This aside, I do think that 6s baseline per Overload is plenty. You will have to invest into boon duration, of course.

4 hours ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

Alacrity on shouts or auras would have been more malleable.

Sure... but let's be realistic: they probably would have put that on a GM trait as well. And I'm not talking about Elemental Bastion.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Xaylin.1860

[soulknight.9620]

1 hour ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

That sounds great until you realize that not all classes are playing by the same rules. 

Wait what? doesnt every class play with 25+ buttons to get 25-30k dps? 

Edited June 26, 2022 by soulknight.9620

[the krytan assassin.9235]

1 hour ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

While AlacMirage isn't on the same tier as FB imho, it is still busted and needs a rework. There is absolutely no point in looking at such builds as a point of reference.

Well that depends whether they nerf these builds or not. Alac mes had 37k on benchmarks while at the same time i'm not sure ele is going to hit above 25k benchmark when geared/traited for alac. That's a 50% difference in effectiveness which would mean Tempest would be pretty much unplayable in harder group content.

[Firebeard.1746]

12 hours ago, Silverpoopoo.1476 said:

Which is why they should be nerfed.

No there's plenty of content difficult enough even with these professions as-is. Let's ask for excellence for every profession instead of advocating boring mediocrity for all.

 

Edited June 26, 2022 by Firebeard.1746