Jump to content
  • Sign Up

i can not emphasis enough, trait and skills and ammo skills


Lighter.5631

read before vote  

28 members have voted

  1. 1. do you like ammo skills

    • I love ammo skill, it makes warrior stronger and fun
      10
    • i hate ammo skill, it's boring and changes nothing.
      18


Recommended Posts

(pvp)

warrior's problem is not from traits. (except for the 300s ones)

warrior's traits are fine and some times may even be too good if placed on other classes.

 

for example many people confused for why placing new fury trait in Arms.

as it is a useless trait line. 

 

but if you compare Arms with other classes' crit line, like ranger skirmishing and necro curses, thief critical strike or elementalist's air.

these trait line's effective level are very similar, yet these other traits are popular among their respective classes,

why Arms is completely useless for warrior.

 

90% of warrior's problems are from actual skills,

they are not only the reason why the class is bad, they are also the reason why the class is regarded as simple and low potential.

Anet somehow is so stubborn to change warrior skills,

with some exception like bullcharge, shake it off and mending ( and most likely not by choice, but forced, simply imagine where warrior would be without these skills, and yes these skills are heavily over buffed, in order to hard carry the rest of warrior.)

 

and as result of anet's stubbornness, they thought of another idea, "ammo skill", yet another form of cooldown reduction on skills with already low cooldowns for being so bad.

they think it is the answer for warrior skills, they even made an entire elite spec around ammo skills.

now they are turning more skills into ammo, for reasons i'm uncertain of,

maybe to make the weapon more suitable for bladesworn,

or maybe they really think ammo would magically patch bad skills.

even though, we all know what happened with rifle, 

 

personally, i think ammo skill help nothing, if the skill is bad, no amount of ammo would help it, if the skill is good, ammo wouldn't hurt.

shake it off even without ammo will still be strong skill with proper cooldown reduction. if you give kick/throw bolas 10 ammo, they will still be useless

 

lastly i have a question, regardless how effective the notion of ammo skills is, do you guys still enjoy ammo skills after all these and why.

Edited by Lighter.5631
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I like ammo skills, but mostly because they even include stuff like emp2. I don't use too many ammo skills in my builds and used to run arms on my zerker, but for bs it turned out to be useless as it stops the flow of actions. as for the changes of the bs ammo skills not sure how they gonna be. some seem intersting, but unsure if they gonna pay out in the end. I swaped arms for discipline so that weapon swap is smth that gets more used. most of my other characters switch weapons more often esspecially ele and engi.

 

I used to run berserker with arms. I tried to run the spec with discipline, but the synergies didn't really make sense to me, that's why I switched to arms so I can get a higher hiting primal burst for bigger healing from rage. arms is way better for it as you gonna critcap easily and also have big aoe and enough signets for it to work. and arms ofc also makes more sense because berserker gets a buff for both power and condi dmg.

 

only ammo skills I use currently is emp(if there is one, mostly optional), gunsaber skills and flow stabilizer. as for the skills I consider them fun, because some are just needed when you actually need them while others are good to spam if they are of cd. so it feels more like playing an engineer with several kits where you are use certain skills depending on situation and still use others whenever they are off cooldown. optional skills would be gunsaber 3 and 5 aswell as flow stablizer itself, because you won't need it as much once you hit the flow capacity. spammed skills would be gunsaber 2+4 for short range aoe spike and another small attack on multiple targets.

 

when the spec came out I initially wanted to craft a build that uses daring dragon with rifle, but that didn't really work out as you got a pseudo-rifle in gunsaber already so you have 1.5 weaponsets only instead of 2 different ones.

 

dunno about the other weapons with ammo. didn't find them appealing and the playstyles more clunky.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't hate ammo skills flat out. 

In some places they can be very useful and allow for creative skill chaining, like physicals (it's another thing how unispired the physicals are, but kick has allowed me to pull good combos and upkeep my Peak Performance reliably jn the past). 

In the case of weapon skills, sure it can look appealing, and has it's uses. Longbow 4 and Axe 3 are my favourite and most useful ammo skills. However for the most part, same with armaments, it limits the potential of skills to slap an ammo count on them. 

And given how TacticalReload now interacts with ammo skills... Well, that potential can only be limited even more... 

It's a quivk fix option Anet came up with. I don't blame them, it can work. But not on warrior as well as imagined. 

So I voted No, I don't like ammo skills. 

I repeat, they are there to limit skill potential and are the scapegoat when asking for reworks. So overall, their implementation and execution has not been for the sake of gameplay, but balance. Which agai,n I can understand, but balance is how it is so.... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Lighter.5631 said:

90% of warrior's problems are from actual skills

 

Not exactly, to be clear, the majority of warrior's problems are from the lack of "make it sensed somehow" between the traitlines and fighting dynamics....

 

1) No perk to scale up with to provide precision... there is a trait in Strength which provides ferocity and vitality scaling up with power and there is a trait in Defense which provides power (also not stacking with the previous one) scaling up with toughness.... This last one should provide not only power but also a percentage of precision to make the whole trait line sensed.

 

2) If u do like ferocity spree potential just forget about wvw, every time you get signet of ferocity (Arms traitline) stacking up, all of the stacks shall be immediately deleted upon mounting on a warclaw (pretty much a must to have nowadays)

 

3) Keeping the argument on Arms there should be a passive to provide some precision here, something just like +100 precision, but once again they did prefer to force player to have bleed stuff (why should we all play condi thing?? never got that point) narrowing the build options range even more.

 

4) Strength trait line can provide might on crt. hit and then healing through might gain... Fun facts: the precision pool is already lacking (as i said before) then the chance of getting might is not even 100% but a mere 50% (which means 50% of an already low % of crt chance, generally 50% of a 60%= 30% might chance) and above all, the amount of healing given which is basically ridicolous in competitive, something like 85 base value..

 

Sorry, can't really say all of my problems (on dual axe at least) come from skills, they rather come from traitline being garbage and devs being not able to do their job. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is a single well designed Ammo skill in the game, and it's Bladesworn Pistol 5. Everything else including all the ammo support and synergy boils down to overcosted CDs and weak skills in exchange for being able to use them more often only at the start of an encounter. 

  • Like 1
  • Confused 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

I don't hate ammo skills flat out. 

In some places they can be very useful and allow for creative skill chaining, like physicals (it's another thing how unispired the physicals are, but kick has allowed me to pull good combos and upkeep my Peak Performance reliably jn the past). 

In the case of weapon skills, sure it can look appealing, and has it's uses. Longbow 4 and Axe 3 are my favourite and most useful ammo skills. However for the most part, same with armaments, it limits the potential of skills to slap an ammo count on them. 

And given how TacticalReload now interacts with ammo skills... Well, that potential can only be limited even more... 

It's a quivk fix option Anet came up with. I don't blame them, it can work. But not on warrior as well as imagined. 

So I voted No, I don't like ammo skills. 

I repeat, they are there to limit skill potential and are the scapegoat when asking for reworks. So overall, their implementation and execution has not been for the sake of gameplay, but balance. Which agai,n I can understand, but balance is how it is so.... 

Yea, i don't dislike ammo skills flat out either,

but they seem to think it is the answer for weak skills and keep slapping it on never-used skills, which bothers me.

ammo on shake it off is very good, but on rest of the shout skills, are not, just turn into boring heal spam, instead of being properly used. 

and on rifle skills, physical skills, now on longbow skills, we all know these skills are never used, no matter the amount of ammo, 

because these skills are simply bad, shake it off is already good on it's own, and ammo is only a bonus..

 

it feels like yet another excuse for anet to limit on warrior skills, which they did for years, and obviously did not work and won't work anymore without the new "ammo" excuses" 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, Lighter.5631 said:

(pvp)

warrior's problem is not from traits. (except for the 300s ones)

warrior's traits are fine and some times may even be too good if placed on other classes.

 

for example many people confused for why placing new fury trait in Arms.

as it is a useless trait line. 

 

but if you compare Arms with other classes' crit line, like ranger skirmishing and necro curses, thief critical strike or elementalist's air.

these trait line's effective level are very similar, yet these other traits are popular among their respective classes,

why Arms is completely useless for warrior.

 

90% of warrior's problems are from actual skills,

they are not only the reason why the class is bad, they are also the reason why the class is regarded as simple and low potential.

Anet somehow is so stubborn to change warrior skills,

with some exception like bullcharge, shake it off and mending ( and most likely not by choice, but forced, simply imagine where warrior would be without these skills, and yes these skills are heavily over buffed, in order to hard carry the rest of warrior.)

 

and as result of anet's stubbornness, they thought of another idea, "ammo skill", yet another form of cooldown reduction on skills with already low cooldowns for being so bad.

they think it is the answer for warrior skills, they even made an entire elite spec around ammo skills.

now they are turning more skills into ammo, for reasons i'm uncertain of,

maybe to make the weapon more suitable for bladesworn,

or maybe they really think ammo would magically patch bad skills.

even though, we all know what happened with rifle, 

 

personally, i think ammo skill help nothing, if the skill is bad, no amount of ammo would help it, if the skill is good, ammo wouldn't hurt.

shake it off even without ammo will still be strong skill with proper cooldown reduction. if you give kick/throw bolas 10 ammo, they will still be useless

 

lastly i have a question, regardless how effective the notion of ammo skills is, do you guys still enjoy ammo skills after all these and why.

I disagree with this comment. Ammo skills do not exist as a stopgap for bad skills. When appropriately applied, they can give a different or more versatile play style (see: axe throw). 
 

Warrior’s problem is not one thing or another. It would be really nice to point at some traits and say “this is the problem”, but that’s just not how it is. Can you rearrange a trait line to add viability? Yes, you can. But just like there are trait problems, there are utility, weapon skill, and conceptual problems that need to be addressed, or rather, taken into account that are rather unique for warrior when compared to any other class. 
 

This is why, I suspect, that if you just read a wiki, warrior’s skills don’t look that bad on paper (weapon skills excluded). Because they aren’t that far behind some of the other professions. But the way it all fits together with warrior’s hyper-simple mechanics means that warrior just has less than every class across multiple dimensions. This is part of why fast hands is so necessary,  as it increases the number of skills accessible to warrior over a 10 second period (10 weapon skills vs 5 for a normal class). 
 

So I disagree with the idea that it’s just the skills that are the problem with warrior. I also don’t think any one thing is too far off, but when you combine all of the weak aspects, the whole class ends up quite a ways behind the others. 
 

Note: when I say that warrior is mechanically hyper-simple, simplicity of mechanics does not imply complexity of gameplay, where I feel warrior is very much not simple compared to most other classes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...