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How is the game balanced?


Rockets.3652

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I am very curious does anyone have any idea/opinions what are the factors and criteria an Anet dev looks for and have to balance the game? Personally to me the changes seems a little weird, untamed still kind of garbo in pve, warrior is prob destroyed in fractals. Offensive mist potion now get vitality of all the offensive stats and the list goes on. Happy to hear everyone's take and opinion

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Players here will tell you that the devs don't know what they are doing. In reality Anet has much more accurate picture of the statistics and balance so if they change something there is a reason behind it. Personally I think it's strange how many claim to know better, but then again it's pretty much the same in most game forums.

Ps. "the GAEM is DED!"

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4 minutes ago, Jukhy.2431 said:

Players here will tell you that the devs don't know what they are doing. In reality Anet has much more accurate picture of the statistics and balance so if they change something there is a reason behind it. Personally I think it's strange how many claim to know better, but then again it's pretty much the same in most game forums.

Ps. "the GAEM is DED!"

Yep. Pretty much every game was going to be the WoW killer... then becomes dead on release day.  This game has been dying for 10 years ha ha.  "Fans" are the worst...  😎

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28 minutes ago, Tukaram.8256 said:

Yep. Pretty much every game was going to be the WoW killer... then becomes dead on release day.  This game has been dying for 10 years ha ha.  "Fans" are the worst...  😎

I played a lot of those WoW killers . Yes they get over run at the release and then the player left relative quick.

The problem is all of them got killed by their publisher biggest point is properly insane monetization (p2w)

but also balancing get ignored

no bugfixes ( ah yes I played one where the main quest got stuck for more then 6 months)

 

The rest was over hyped because western players are not a fan of hard core mmo with tons of grind in it (and possible open PvP).

 

 

In general a lot of  MMos start to "die" shortly after the release because they can't get more players and over time more and more changes accumulate which players aren't a fan of or just don't have time any more as a human being to play the game .

 

This is by the way one of the secrets why Minecraft is so successful because the players can tweak changes and balance like they want.

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Historically its been balanced around each class having a niche, however this proved to be a low point for the game so they're slowly starting to change it, especially in the upcoming patch that equalises boon distrubtion (well, for Alacrity and Quickness at least, we still have monopolies and duopolies on Aegis and Stability..).

 

The overall balance for combat uses a rock-paper-scissors system:

1. Power damage is countered by defense (Toughness, mostly) and debuffs,

2. Defense is countered by Condition damage,

3. Condition damage is countered by Vitality and cleanses,

4. Vitality inhibits sustain, while defense and healing increases sustain.

5. Go back to 1.

 

Though many complain about this system, it does a good job of making sure no one can "have it all", except in some very rare overpowered builds that tend to get nerfed rather quickly.

Edited by Hannelore.8153
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On 6/26/2022 at 6:56 AM, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

That's easy to answer: whims.  It's balanced around whims.  

It does feel that way at times. :classic_unsure:

On 6/26/2022 at 11:05 AM, Jukhy.2431 said:

Players here will tell you that the devs don't know what they are doing. In reality Anet has much more accurate picture of the statistics and balance so if they change something there is a reason behind it.

Some things do make zero sense, like nerfing Catalyst in PvE only.

Also, wasn't there a balancing dev post on Reddit where the person admitted to know little about specific professions? 😄
 

Edited by Ashantara.8731
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9 hours ago, Rockets.3652 said:

I am very curious does anyone have any idea/opinions what are the factors and criteria an Anet dev looks for and have to balance the game? Personally to me the changes seems a little weird, untamed still kind of garbo in pve, warrior is prob destroyed in fractals. Offensive mist potion now get vitality of all the offensive stats and the list goes on. Happy to hear everyone's take and opinion

ANet balance criteria flow chart:

Buff firebrand.

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4 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

This game is not balanced at all.

Changes are exclusively done on whims and strong bias against specific professions (especially Warrior).

But changes are never made with anything remotely resembling balance in mind.

There's currently this one "cupcake recipe" making the rounds regarding balance. It seems that people do not enjoy the cupcakes that they've been getting lately...

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8 hours ago, Lord of the Fire.6870 said:

I played a lot of those WoW killers . Yes they get over run at the release and then the player left relative quick.

The problem is all of them got killed by their publisher biggest point is properly insane monetization (p2w)

but also balancing get ignored

no bugfixes ( ah yes I played one where the main quest got stuck for more then 6 months)

 

The rest was over hyped because western players are not a fan of hard core mmo with tons of grind in it (and possible open PvP).

 

 

In general a lot of  MMos start to "die" shortly after the release because they can't get more players and over time more and more changes accumulate which players aren't a fan of or just don't have time any more as a human being to play the game .

 

This is by the way one of the secrets why Minecraft is so successful because the players can tweak changes and balance like they want.

I play a few of the survival genre games and it's no secret to why they're so successful: players can mod them as they like. And open-world pvp in old-school mmos was a crap-shoot for anyone that was new. They were basically griefers' playgrounds, like going into a bad neighborhood and getting shot. You needed somebody from there to 'show people the ropes', so to speak. Some people wax poetically and nostalgically about those "good old days", but not me.

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The issue as I see it is that there just aren't enough changes total, there are issues that go unattended for years and years.  Then you have instances where they make lazy changes targeting one game mode, that may cause balance issues in other game modes.

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In PvE, around damage ramp-up for damage. For support… I m unsure. This seems to be constantly changing and highly inconsistent.

 

In PvP, I think it is based on random number generator 😝. Well… not that bad, but definitely not enough effort and understanding are put into this.

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On 6/26/2022 at 6:48 AM, Rockets.3652 said:

I am very curious does anyone have any idea/opinions what are the factors and criteria an Anet dev looks for and have to balance the game? Personally to me the changes seems a little weird, untamed still kind of garbo in pve, warrior is prob destroyed in fractals. Offensive mist potion now get vitality of all the offensive stats and the list goes on. Happy to hear everyone's take and opinion

The offensive mist potion change seems to be based on two things:

1. the desire to normalize critical chance, so players not have to do weird calculations and crit chance won't change in-between play or content (but see +5% crit chance while in air...)

2. Guardian has some traits that convert vitality into damage.

Edited by Astralporing.1957
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On 6/26/2022 at 12:48 AM, Rockets.3652 said:

I am very curious does anyone have any idea/opinions what are the factors and criteria an Anet dev looks for and have to balance the game? Personally to me the changes seems a little weird, untamed still kind of garbo in pve, warrior is prob destroyed in fractals. Offensive mist potion now get vitality of all the offensive stats and the list goes on. Happy to hear everyone's take and opinion

...on a pinata...

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I'd say their main balance is focussed on a couple things. 

1. Every class should be able to deal the same amount of damage.

2. Difficulty of playing style should by no means be An indicator for the effectiveness of the build. 

3. Be extremely cautious with damaging the meta classes since this could lead to loads of criticism. 

4. Extra utility/boonsupport (except quickness and alacrity)/tankyness is no reason to lower the damage potential of the profession

5. Lassaiz faire attitude to balance in general cause the community will be mad at everything they implementate. 

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:

I'd say their main balance is focussed on a couple things. 

1. Every class should be able to deal the same amount of damage.

2. Difficulty of playing style should by no means be An indicator for the effectiveness of the build. 

3. Be extremely cautious with damaging the meta classes since this could lead to loads of criticism. 

4. Extra utility/boonsupport (except quickness and alacrity)/tankyness is no reason to lower the damage potential of the profession

5. Lassaiz faire attitude to balance in general cause the community will be mad at everything they implementate.

Now look at the balance patch, and see howpoints 1, 3 and 4 are each contradicted at least once. (well, 3 is pretty much constantly ignored throughout)

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1 hour ago, the krytan assassin.9235 said:

I'd say their main balance is focussed on a couple things. 

1. Every class should be able to deal the same amount of damage.

2. Difficulty of playing style should by no means be An indicator for the effectiveness of the build. 

3. Be extremely cautious with damaging the meta classes since this could lead to loads of criticism. 

4. Extra utility/boonsupport (except quickness and alacrity)/tankyness is no reason to lower the damage potential of the profession

5. Lassaiz faire attitude to balance in general cause the community will be mad at everything they implementate. 

 

 

 

 

2. Difficulty of playing style should ensure that the build performs worse than other builds.

Fix that for you.  You should probably consider moving that to position 1 on the list, though.  For reference, see ele quickly nerfed whenever it is overperforming while firebrand overperforms for years on end with no remedy.

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On 6/26/2022 at 11:59 AM, Hannelore.8153 said:

Historically its been balanced around each class having a niche, however this proved to be a low point for the game so they're slowly starting to change it, especially in the upcoming patch that equalises boon distrubtion (well, for Alacrity and Quickness at least, we still have monopolies and duopolies on Aegis and Stability..).

 

The overall balance for combat uses a rock-paper-scissors system:

1. Power damage is countered by defense (Toughness, mostly) and debuffs,

2. Defense is countered by Condition damage,

3. Condition damage is countered by Vitality and cleanses,

4. Vitality inhibits sustain, while defense and healing increases sustain.

5. Go back to 1.

 

Though many complain about this system, it does a good job of making sure no one can "have it all", except in some very rare overpowered builds that tend to get nerfed rather quickly.

Well yes they balanced the game so that ever build has it niche until somewhere around mid season 4 of the living story . Until the game was like a careful constructed system like you usually see in an AAA title .

 

The new abbroch was/is  we make the damage of everyone as close as possible in result like it was mentioned multiply times the tankiest classes perform the best as a result .

 

They did a lot of strange things like boosting condi builds but in general they went more and more on the nerf side and less balancing patches in general  patches became rare .

 

Because of this the new incoming patch is for many a fresh take but also people are angry because too late and not everyone gets the long needed treatment.

 

I'm hopeful but hesitant because they said they doing this in between team reconstruction .... which imply for me that they won't follow this up with more stuff also you can also  interpret those team reconstruction in 2 ways

1. Needed because of different content

2. Needed because of underperformance.

 

Also in general is is obviously that Arena.NET seems to don't have any more the money to sustain the quality they had pre Season 4 in content, bugfixes and balance patches they cut back as far they possible can on all of them.

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