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Point of the new lucid singularity?


Firebeard.1746

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Without the aura healing available to heal tempest, it doesn't really feel viable at all: In PVE I've found myself depending on harmonious conduit a lot in order to successfully complete overloads in a plethora of situations, so I can't really take regen on auras instead, and even if could, It probably wouldn't be strong enough heals to keep people up if there was any sort of pressure outside of water attunement. Additionally, the mechanics of it are wonky: a player would definitely need to jump out of water regularly to keep alacrity up, but then you'd have literally no burst healing for anything that could happen. 

Then if we look at other builds, the stat cost of concentration is so high, that it's probably not viable for power tempest. Additionally, power tempest only overloads air. And while FA resets the attunement, it doesn't reset the overload. So I don't think it's mechanically viable. Condi tempest might be able to maintain alac with little trade-off, but it would definitely lose a major trait for its DPS output. I'm not sure it's viable, but it's probably the only one. 

I'm beyond sad that my heal tempest has been shelved since the launch of EoD and anet couldn't be bothered to give me a reason to play it. 

Also, what's up with the double-tax to provide boons? Why does it take a trait + concentration to do it? I feel like if a player is trating to provide a boon, then concentration shouldn't even have to come into play. I don't know if this is an ele specific problem (alot of my builds are cookie cutters, so I'm not 100%) but I find concentration an annoying stat, and the double tax even more annoying. 

On paper concentration might make sense, but I feel like in reality, it doesn't feel good having to kitten yourself to provide utility. I know that's probably asking for too much, but please look at the dobule tax

My suggestion for alac and lucid singularity would be this: tie alac to the auras themselves. This means that if a power support wants to provide alac, they take a DPS hit from using sub-optimal utility skills. Change lucid singularity to be condi focused, and change transcendant tempest to be solely power focused. 

Edited by Firebeard.1746
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I think they wanted to bind alacrity to a core temp mechanic.
They could have gone with auras but everyone was expecting that and at Arenanet they're the same that gave a GS to mesmer as a ranger weapon. They're so focused on thinking if they can that they forget to ask themselves if they should sometimes (gs as a ranged weapon is cool btw).

As you say if you go LS, you're basically forced to forego Invigorating Torrent (regen and vigor) if you want to secure yourself completing the overloads thanks to Harmonious Conduit.
You'll be forced to renounce to Elemental Bastion too which is a key element in the d/wh build.
You'd think then Staff would be the only alternative, but then again you'll be stuck rotating attunements reducing the water uptime.

Alac on overload is a really bad decision. Many of us eles believe that, ad as many were hoping in having it tied to aura, I still hope they'll reconsider it. I don't even care if they'll prolong the alac duration reducing the number of overloads required to upkeep it, having to channel overloads is simply not fun. On hTemp it's something you should do to fill your rotation or to burst heal when needed not the top priority activity.



 

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I believe that you may need a great deal less concentration than you think you do. Boon Duration is a very cheap stat when it comes to Elementalists. Tempest itself offers 8% plus an additional 8 while topped up on health, and if you take Arcane then you gain an additional 12% for free while also reducing the breakpoint for permanent Alac by reducing attunement cooldowns for your overloads. By this point you are able to comfortably take healer runes with Boon Duration or Leadership runes to bridge that last couple of seconds in order to maintain Alac granted you are overloading as often as you can, and you can improve your wiggle room even further with a 10% sigil. At this point you haven't invested in Concentration at all, and any additional percents you would earn just give you even more room to breath.

Meant to add that, since you are able to invest in raw healing power so easily, you can give up having the burst healing that Tempest typically is know for and rely on your weapon skills and regen ticks more. Technically you can even forego Powerful Auras and go for the improved Soothing Mists, using Shouts to distribute your Regen instead of just overloading and gaining an aura from it.

Edited by Mimiga.9815
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7 hours ago, Mimiga.9815 said:

I believe that you may need a great deal less concentration than you think you do. Boon Duration is a very cheap stat when it comes to Elementalists. Tempest itself offers 8% plus an additional 8 while topped up on health, and if you take Arcane then you gain an additional 12% for free while also reducing the breakpoint for permanent Alac by reducing attunement cooldowns for your overloads. By this point you are able to comfortably take healer runes with Boon Duration or Leadership runes to bridge that last couple of seconds in order to maintain Alac granted you are overloading as often as you can, and you can improve your wiggle room even further with a 10% sigil. At this point you haven't invested in Concentration at all, and any additional percents you would earn just give you even more room to breath.

Meant to add that, since you are able to invest in raw healing power so easily, you can give up having the burst healing that Tempest typically is know for and rely on your weapon skills and regen ticks more. Technically you can even forego Powerful Auras and go for the improved Soothing Mists, using Shouts to distribute your Regen instead of just overloading and gaining an aura from it.

If this is true, that's fine, and I'm not an expert ele by any means, but I'm still not quite sure where the new grandmaster trait is supposed to fit into any build really. It'd really be nice for anet to explain how they thought the grandmaster trait would work and which builds would use it. I'm also not sold on super strong ticks. I still don't think that's anything close to what a normal heal tempest can do. If they're expecting this kind of tradeoff, they should discuss it in the notes and explain which PVE environments they've tested it in. 

And also note: As it relates to healing, weapon skills really only matter in water. I don't think you'd be able to get away with camping water to provide alac, and if you did, you'd lose out on might. They're saying might is easier to generate, but I'm still not sold on it. I'm not sure where all this free might is supposed to be coming from. 

Edited by Firebeard.1746
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I don't see any way to do a heal alac tempest with overloads.

Not only do you loose heals on aura (Elemental Bastion), to take the alac trait, you also loose regen on aura (Invigorating Torrents) in favor of stability on overloads (Harmonious Conduit) to make sure you complete the overload to proc alacrity. 

But you also can't overload in water, because that would put water on a 20 second cooldown when you swap out of it. Not just the water overload, the water attunement is on cooldown. And you'd need to swap out of it, even if you have 100% boon duration. That would give you a 12 second alacrity, but you'd spend most of that 12 seconds in another element waiting for the overload to be ready and then to finish. 

So no heal on aura, no regen on aura and no water overload. But also no heals at all while you're in a non-water overload - not even Wash Away the Pain. If someone needs a heal when you need to do an overload, you just have to wait and rez them after. Instead of healing, you just do this super low dps overload since you're wearing healing gear. It doesn't feel useful or fun.

Otherwise heal with weapons? Sure, some have some good heals in water. But, if you have 100% boon duration, you'd be spending about half  your time not in water. And that timing is not something you can change much based on when you expect people to take damage in the encounter. It's just based on having to overload, for no other reason that alacrity. 

You just can't be a reliable healer that way.

But it's also not good for dps tempest alac. You'd loose out on the only dps trait in the tempest line. And if you want to do more than just cycle through elements, hit 1-2 quick skills and the overload, then you need boon duration. That means dumping some dps stats for concentration.

Fresh Air tempest was already not a high dps build, so this double-dip trade off really takes it lower than feels viable. Other builds can do dps alac with much higher dps. 

 

However, if Lucid Singularity tied alacrity to auras, and if Unstable Conduit caused overload auras to be shared, then both dps and heal tempest can cover alacrity with a combination of overloads and shouts since tempest shouts share auras. It would slightly kitten both specs of tempest, since neither would be able to take their preferred grandmaster. But it would offer up a little space to build a dps rotation with minimal boon duration and a heal spec with situational adaptability. 

I don't think this change would make tempest healers "too good", as they have been said to have the highest raw healing ability in the game. Tempests can't give groups stability, aegis or barrier. Even with alacrity, they would remain only one option that wouldn't fit most situations better than other healing options. I think adding alacrity in a way that allows healing would just allow those of us that want to play tempest healers to do so without gimping our guild groups and statics. 

(edited to fix the double spacing)

Edited by Monchichi.9301
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1 hour ago, Monchichi.9301 said:

I don't see any way to do a heal alac tempest with overloads.

Not only do you loose heals on aura (Elemental Bastion), to take the alac trait, you also loose regen on aura (Invigorating Torrents) in favor of stability on overloads (Harmonious Conduit) to make sure you complete the overload to proc alacrity. 

But you also can't overload in water, because that would put water on a 20 second cooldown when you swap out of it. Not just the water overload, the water attunement is on cooldown. And you'd need to swap out of it, even if you have 100% boon duration. That would give you a 12 second alacrity, but you'd spend most of that 12 seconds in another element waiting for the overload to be ready and then to finish. 

So no heal on aura, no regen on aura and no water overload. But also no heals at all while you're in a non-water overload - not even Wash Away the Pain. If someone needs a heal when you need to do an overload, you just have to wait and rez them after. Instead of healing, you just do this super low dps overload since you're wearing healing gear. It doesn't feel useful or fun.

Otherwise heal with weapons? Sure, some have some good heals in water. But, if you have 100% boon duration, you'd be spending about half  your time not in water. And that timing is not something you can change much based on when you expect people to take damage in the encounter. It's just based on having to overload, for no other reason that alacrity. 

You just can't be a reliable healer that way.

But it's also not good for dps tempest alac. You'd loose out on the only dps trait in the tempest line. And if you want to do more than just cycle through elements, hit 1-2 quick skills and the overload, then you need boon duration. That means dumping some dps stats for concentration.

Fresh Air tempest was already not a high dps build, so this double-dip trade off really takes it lower than feels viable. Other builds can do dps alac with much higher dps. 

 

However, if Lucid Singularity tied alacrity to auras, and if Unstable Conduit caused overload auras to be shared, then both dps and heal tempest can cover alacrity with a combination of overloads and shouts since tempest shouts share auras. It would slightly kitten both specs of tempest, since neither would be able to take their preferred grandmaster. But it would offer up a little space to build a dps rotation with minimal boon duration and a heal spec with situational adaptability. 

I don't think this change would make tempest healers "too good", as they have been said to have the highest raw healing ability in the game. Tempests can't give groups stability, aegis or barrier. Even with alacrity, they would remain only one option that wouldn't fit most situations better than other healing options. I think adding alacrity in a way that allows healing would just allow those of us that want to play tempest healers to do so without gimping our guild groups and statics. 

(edited to fix the double spacing)

I can see Harmonious Conduit having more relevance in possible WvW content, but otherwise in organized PvE where you would want to be playing a heal boon support I don't think you're going to be kneecapped into needing to take that stability at any point (unless you're trying to build for the encounter specifically, I suppose). A pure healing build would've lost out on their healing proc from being interrupted anyway, so I don't see how it's much different for the alacrity build. You also have to keep in mind that Alacrity is a boon which essentially helps to propagate itself, reducing the cooldowns of the very skills you used to gain it. Under its effects, it takes 4.5 seconds to charge your next overload and 4 to complete it, assuming you're not in a group which is providing you with Quickness. Now if you were going to be bouncing overloads as much as possible then you would only need to reach just around 9 seconds of Alacrity, which is only 50% boon duration by itself. Tempest by itself provides you with 8% flat and a less reliable additional 8%, so there's room to grow even if you don't take Arcane.

 

Now if you do take Arcane, however, even overloaded elements only have a 13.5 second cooldown (with the Alacrity you are trying to maintain), and you gain another 12% boon duration for free. This means that your auras have less actual boon impact than a traditional Tempest healer, as you wouldn't be able to provide the Protection uptime from Earth, but what it does do is give you even more room to stack less Concentration and more potent healing or dps stats. At 13.5 seconds, with a Quickness provider nearby, your Overloads take 2 seconds to cast and 4.5 seconds to charge (as far as I'm aware), making your required boon duration almost negligible if circumstances are perfect. Runes of the Monk add another 15% while also still being one of the best choices for pumping out raw green numbers. I admit that your hesitance to rely on passive regeneration or weapon skills is a strong concern here since Ele really does struggle with that thing, but it could surely be supplemental enough so long as you don't need to burst heal between the fifteen or so seconds of Water Overloads and Wash Away The Pains. Your heals are much less on-demand and therefore notably unreliable as you said. At the very least 25 Might is super easy to maintain, but it always is.

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As a main for Tempest in WVW. The only way to fix their current mistake and to even make us remotely viable would be to add in Alacrity on Aurashare. However you want to slice it.

 

It still won't touch Scrapper. But it would be a good starting point.

 

Having us to choose between heals and alacrity is not even a close call. Fresh air is terrible at a 3 target cap. Your overloads are always interrupted even with a firebrand.

 

Anet make the right choice. Alacrity on Aurashare. We won't be amazing I can guarantee you that as a wvw tempest main, but you can give us something to make commanders hate us less vs scrappers.

 

"No sneak or quickness? Ugh... Fine, spam heals, cleanses, and alacrity only.. I guess."

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2 hours ago, LightBrave.5638 said:

As a main for Tempest in WVW. The only way to fix their current mistake and to even make us remotely viable would be to add in Alacrity on Aurashare. However you want to slice it.

 

It still won't touch Scrapper. But it would be a good starting point.

 

Having us to choose between heals and alacrity is not even a close call. Fresh air is terrible at a 3 target cap. Your overloads are always interrupted even with a firebrand.

 

Anet make the right choice. Alacrity on Aurashare. We won't be amazing I can guarantee you that as a wvw tempest main, but you can give us something to make commanders hate us less vs scrappers.

 

"No sneak or quickness? Ugh... Fine, spam heals, cleanses, and alacrity only.. I guess."

I think we need both. Alac on aurashare (4s) AND overload (8-10!!s). Aurashare does not work on dps builds, it basically disables a whole traitline or all supportskills. But if both give it, there would be choices.

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8 hours ago, Mimiga.9815 said:

I can see Harmonious Conduit having more relevance in possible WvW content, but otherwise in organized PvE where you would want to be playing a heal boon support I don't think you're going to be kneecapped into needing to take that stability at any point (unless you're trying to build for the encounter specifically, I suppose). A pure healing build would've lost out on their healing proc from being interrupted anyway, so I don't see how it's much different for the alacrity build. You also have to keep in mind that Alacrity is a boon which essentially helps to propagate itself, reducing the cooldowns of the very skills you used to gain it. Under its effects, it takes 4.5 seconds to charge your next overload and 4 to complete it, assuming you're not in a group which is providing you with Quickness. Now if you were going to be bouncing overloads as much as possible then you would only need to reach just around 9 seconds of Alacrity, which is only 50% boon duration by itself. Tempest by itself provides you with 8% flat and a less reliable additional 8%, so there's room to grow even if you don't take Arcane.

 

Now if you do take Arcane, however, even overloaded elements only have a 13.5 second cooldown (with the Alacrity you are trying to maintain), and you gain another 12% boon duration for free. This means that your auras have less actual boon impact than a traditional Tempest healer, as you wouldn't be able to provide the Protection uptime from Earth, but what it does do is give you even more room to stack less Concentration and more potent healing or dps stats. At 13.5 seconds, with a Quickness provider nearby, your Overloads take 2 seconds to cast and 4.5 seconds to charge (as far as I'm aware), making your required boon duration almost negligible if circumstances are perfect. Runes of the Monk add another 15% while also still being one of the best choices for pumping out raw green numbers. I admit that your hesitance to rely on passive regeneration or weapon skills is a strong concern here since Ele really does struggle with that thing, but it could surely be supplemental enough so long as you don't need to burst heal between the fifteen or so seconds of Water Overloads and Wash Away The Pains. Your heals are much less on-demand and therefore notably unreliable as you said. At the very least 25 Might is super easy to maintain, but it always is.


I can see how stability might be available in PVE groups, so I could keep the regen on auras. But I'm still spending more than half my time in non water elements where I can't use weapon heals. Sure I'd have regen on everyone. But most healers can also keep regen on people. So that's nothing special. And I'd only have Wash the Pain Away as a spot heal, which I couldn't use during an overload. 

And, yes, with arcane I'd loose protection on demand. That doesn't sound bad, until you add in the fact that I already don't have aegis or stability. Frost aura would be helpful, but that's a 25 second cooldown. So I can only pop that once in a while when I'm leaving water to keep people from needing spot heals. 

Even with 50% boon duration, I'd have to finish an overload every 9 seconds. With quickness and alac, I counted it out at about 6 seconds in other elements and overloads (though I would defer to anyone who actually timed this). That's more than half my time spent without access to spot heals. Only one emergency heal. 

And that timing is not based on the encounter, HP of people or the needs of the group. The timing is just based on the alacrity rotation. 

Again, that's all without bringing protection, aegis or stability too.

That is a bad option for a healer. Almost every other option is better. Maybe not shout warrior. But pretty much everything else is better.

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