If you Were Anet (warning Critical Thinking Required)

[Pimsley.3681]

What would you do? (supposed to be a poll but data in itself is useless if not backed by reason or logic)

1. Cancel and overturn the balance updates to a future date
+ shows they read and are concerned about aggregate player base disapproval
+ shows they want damage control
- invest in REALLY balancing specs and doing so in a timely manner
2. Forge on Ahead
+ shows they are determined and not easily swayed by the populous
- bottomless pit unless they are quick to fix, revert or invest more resources to balance yet again. 

 

If you had influence or held a C-suite executive position to make one of two options above, which will YOU choose?

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Obviously option number 1. 

Sadly as much as I want to bring the hammer of divine justice down on Anet, I would need more information before I could speak on an Executive level. 

Otherwise, players theorising the issues behind the comapny's practices and identifying some fundamental issues at handling feedback and forming this toxic enviroment of 'communication' (we tell you what we are gonna do with no reasoning, will ask for your feedback but provide no response and left you wonder for the future) is by all means necessary. 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Grand Marshal.4098
Reworded final sentence.

[Terrorhuz.4695]

If I was an executive, I'd take a certain amount of designers and immediately dispatch them to some other task. Doesn't matter which task you get, you could even be given a pay rise for all I care, I just need to know you're not calling the shots about anything anymore. Literally the first thing I'd do.

Once a certain amount of people was removed from their current position, we can talk business, everything goes IDC. The patch goes live, the patch doesn't go live, it doesn't matter nearly as much as making sure that whoever is responsible for this steaming pile of kitten can't pull that off ever again.

I, as a customer, am much less worried from this patch rather than knowing how the developer responsible for mesmer staff changes, and also virtuoso as a whole, and the shitshow that was mechanist in pvp, and the new chrono changes, is still on the loose and ready to fire. The guy is passionate, but someone needs to take 5 minutes of their time, sit down with him, and tell him in no uncertain terms "listen: I know you mean well. Nobody hates you, and you're a good software developer. But as far as design goes, this is where you kittening stop"

Edited July 3, 2022 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Telgum.6071]

If you don't know how to balance certain classes that's ok., you don't have to. But at least have some shame and try to rely on people who indeed knows how those classes work, specially if they are willing to help for free and just because they love your game.

Seriously Anet, you don't know what community you have in here. Leave your ego behind.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Telgum.6071

[Cuddy.6247]

Depends on your perspective, no? The updates are clearly meant to make raiding more accessible with little to no afterthought on competitive game modes. So I'd just delete HotM altogether to force the player base to understand that PvE is the only priority. 

[Ovark.2514]

I think that many of the changes in the patch will be good for the game. Some though, are woefully inadequate and others make the game way too samey. I'd say go ahead with it but then to a follow-up patch within a week or 2.

[Zoser.7245]

3 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

If I was an executive, I'd take a certaim amount of designers and immediately dispatch them to some other task. Doesn't matter which task you get, you could even be given a pay rise for all I care, I just need to know you're not calling the shots about anything anymore. Literally the first thing I'd do.

Once a certain amount of people was removed from their current position, we can talk business, everything goes IDC. The patch goes live, the patch doesn't go live, it doesn't matter nearly as much as making sure that whoever is responsible for this steaming pile of kitten can't pull that off ever again.

I, as a customer, am much less worried from this patch rather than knowing how the developer responsible for mesmer staff changes, and also virtuoso as a whole, and the shitshow that was mechanist in pvp, and the new chrono changes, is still on the loose and ready to fire. The guy is passionate, but someone needs to take 5 minutes of their time, sit down with him, and tell him in no uncertain terms "listen: I know you mean well. Nobody hates you, and you're a good software developer. But as far as design goes, this is where you kittening stop"

Edited
 

Edited June 27, 2022 by Zoser.7245

[Terrorhuz.4695]

9 minutes ago, Zoser.7245 said:

The developer that changed the staff and the developer of the Virtuoso are not the same if the information i was able to read is right. If true, the guy who laughed out loud in the live event about the "One dodge Man/Mirage" was involved in the Virtuoso's design. 😜  And does not seem to be the same person that the one  that hates the Mirage's axe and due to that buffed the staff. And he hates complex things to play, so it's best to make them worse than simple ones so that no one will play or want to play them... just like that.  At least now we now the real reason behind the strange addition of alacrity to the ambush. 

I'm afraid you didn't get it right. Now, someone correct me if I'm wrong but there are 2 developers at work here, and we're going to call them S and C.

S: designed Virtuoso, Mechanist and probably Harbinger IIRC, performed the chrono changes we'll have in a couple of days. Reworked staff mesmer to the obscenely boring and passive garbage it currently is. Literally nothing of his current work can be saved; he should be moved to some cookie clicking game where his passive gameplay would shine the most.
C: designed untamed, removed a dodge from mirage. Thinks staying hydrated is very important. Most of his current work is beyond saving, but some things are acceptable and untamed had a vision; couldn't bring it home due to time constraints, but the vision is there.

Edited June 27, 2022 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Zoser.7245]

2 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I'm afraid you didn't get it right. Now, someone correct me if I'm wrong but there are 2 developers at work here, and we're going to call them S and C.

S: designed Virtuoso, Mechanist and probably Harbinger IIRC, performed the chrono changes we'll have in a couple of days. Reworked staff mesmer to the obscenely boring and passive garbage it currently is. Literally nothing of his current work can be saved.
C: designed untamed, removed a dodge from mirage. Thinks staying hydrated is very important. Most of his current work is beyond saving, but some things are acceptable and untamed had a vision; couldn't bring it home due to time constraints, but the vision is there.

Maybe you are right with S.  The one that hates complex things, hates the axe and was behind the strange decision of put alacrity and free might in the Mirage's  staff ambush.  But as so many things were censured and deleted this weekend, it is difficult to find all now. I edited  my post until find info again, if i'ts possible.

Untamed was designed with PvP in mind according to S  that asked C/X about it and the average guy playing is overwhelmed with the need to control all the pet skills.  It seems that they are working in a system where you can choose what pet skills put on autoattack for untamed and mechanist.

This also clearly shows how different and biased are the designs of the different specializations according who is behind it. 😁 Anyways, i like the different designs and the variety. But in balance, it should exist a common vision and philosophy, and someone who is above the rest checking that there is fairness in the balance changes across all professions as a whole and not each developer doing its own business at their free will. And check that the developers working on balance changes have the necessary knowledge of what they are working on. Not someone that unknown the mechanics, does not play the profession and is searching information in the wiki to figure what to do...

Edited June 27, 2022 by Zoser.7245

[voltaicbore.8012]

As a player, I very much want (1) to happen. But if I were ANet? (2) all the way.

The outrage over the Discord revelations and the general direction of the patch is from players who care enough to read about GW2 outside of what the game itself tells you. Sadly, such folks seem to be in the minority.

The vast majority of the playerbase will continue to soldier on, because they don't care very much about class balance. They care about gem store shinies, open world content, and other stuff that will still be very manageable after the patch. The only possible threat to these people is if enough sweaty metagamers leave, there will be less people left to carry open world events and world bosses. I doubt the exodus will reach that extent. So from the company's standpoint, why bother?

The only thing our outrage will achieve is even less communication from ANet. They're not going to see this and say "oh, I guess we shouldn't let dev biases trample over player desires." They're going to say "oh, letting one of our devs speak openly with part of the community blew up in our face. Time to button up and shut all the hatches again."

[Zagerus.8675]

I have a feeling that designer instinct is telling them Option 1. but we have to remember that they have a whole gauntlet of things to weave through because they have a parent company. Making the game similarly rewarding for playing it more casually probably won't be good for the player experience at the top level, but it may make the game more accessible and thus generate more revenue. There's sense in that but I still think that if you're investing the time to get better at the game you should have a larger impact on given scenarios within the combat system. It can be a harsh system to hold onto at first if you're new but when you start getting those breakthroughs it offers potent, important growth for us as gamers. I don't think the complexity is something that should be erased but rather it should be reinforced and encouraged.

[Dralor.3701]

They should wait and also develop a better test group. 
Not that there is really a pro scene but many successful gaming companies tend to hire pro players to assist with skills and balance. This is clearly something lacking in GW2s spvp/WvW development.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

4 hours ago, Dralor.3701 said:

They should wait and also develop a better test group. 
Not that there is really a pro scene but many successful gaming companies tend to hire pro players to assist with skills and balance. This is clearly something lacking in GW2s spvp/WvW development.

I'm pretty sure that's something they have down already, though "hire" isn't really the right word. 

There's a discord that exists somewhere in the metaverse in which; during the witching hour, the elite and former elite gather to talk balance directly to Anet.

 

The problem with that is gw2's competitive pro scene specifically. Its filled with more cheaters and egotistical people than most other games, which is surprising when you consider its size.

Not all of them, but certainly a good chunk of the pros are just skill-less metagamers who already use that power to their own personal gain.

[Labjax.2465]

9 hours ago, Pimsley.3681 said:

What would you do? (supposed to be a poll but data in itself is useless if not backed by reason or logic)

1. Cancel and overturn the balance updates to a future date
+ shows they read and are concerned about aggregate player base disapproval
+ shows they want damage control
- invest in REALLY balancing specs and doing so in a timely manner
2. Forge on Ahead
+ shows they are determined and not easily swayed by the populous
- bottomless pit unless they are quick to fix, revert or invest more resources to balance yet again. 

 

If you had influence or held a C-suite executive position to make one of two options above, which will YOU choose?

If it was me, I'd probably do a public apology, direct development resources to separating out the balance changes from the other changes if they aren't already, so the other stuff can move ahead, even if it means delaying the bulk of the patch a little bit. Then immediately redirect some resources to a publicly engaged task force whose job is to go back and forth with the community to better understand class goals and desires, and ensure that it's being listened to by having gradual proposed changes posted on a regular basis by balance devs to ensure the two parties are on the same page. This discussion area would be more restricted than the regular forums, with tighter moderating, to try to eliminate fluff and focus on communicating information about a class.

If I was a careerist executive seeking as much money as possible, I'd probably delete any threads that hint at reflecting on the company poorly, have a few sock accounts make comments that go too far on a subreddit so the conversation can be redirected to the community going too far instead of the company behaving poorly, make some vague insinuations that communication will still happen and the issues will be addressed in a future patch to put a stopgap in people leaving en masse, and then internally half-joking-scold any devs involved in the issues a little bit before inviting them to lunch and discussing a promotion, and start brainstorming new ways to make more money from the gem store.

[Scoobaniec.9561]

Patch is a joke but could be more "acceptable" if they were going to correct things within week-2 weeks time not few months

Id personally go with 1 anyway. If theres so many people against your patch then it should ring a bell instead of brute forcing it anyway

[Newholiday.8103]

10 minutes ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

Patch is a joke but could be more "acceptable" if they were going to correct things within week-2 weeks time not few months

Id personally go with 1 anyway. If theres so many people against your patch then it should ring a bell instead of brute forcing it anyway

It's not going to get corrected, within 2 weeks or 2 months, or even 2 years.  Anet has made these types of promises numerous times in the past.  They have never, in my memory, actually followed up with any fixes.  Biggest example that comes to mind is the Feb 2020 patch, where it was promised that numerous corrections would follow after they gave 300 icds to various traits, removed damage on cc, stated various underperforming specs would get fixed.  Nothing ever came of their promises.

Edited June 27, 2022 by thepolishman.2348

[Scoobaniec.9561]

1 minute ago, thepolishman.2348 said:

It's not going to get corrected, within 2 weeks or 2 months, or even 2 years.  Anet has made these types of promises numerous times in the past.  They have never, in my memory, actually followed up with any fixes.  Biggest example that comes to mind is the Feb 2020 patch, where it was promised that numerous corrections would follow after they gave 300 icds to various traits, removed damage on cc, stated various underperforming specs would get fixed.  None of that happened.

Bro why you tell me that? Ive been in gw2 since launch. Cele ele, bullrush hb, hambow other bs u name it. Balance was always a joke as far i remember. You CANNOT try to balance the game every few months. It something that should be done on 2 week basic with hotfixes to huge outliners. Oh wait.. theres one thing id like to point out here - all this talk is about PVE RAIDS balance. Nobody even thought of pvp. It doesnt exists anymore

[FarmBotXD.1430]

2 hours ago, Scoobaniec.9561 said:

Bro why you tell me that? Ive been in gw2 since launch. Cele ele, bullrush hb, hambow other bs u name it. Balance was always a joke as far i remember. You CANNOT try to balance the game every few months. It something that should be done on 2 week basic with hotfixes to huge outliners. Oh wait.. theres one thing id like to point out here - all this talk is about PVE RAIDS balance. Nobody even thought of pvp. It doesnt exists anymore

you can balance a game every few months, they are actively making it worse with every single patch, I actually dont remember more then 5 good changes in the last 3 years, and could probably recite 50 kitten ones off the top of my head.
Legit the only good thing they did since I started playing this game was removing retaliation and nerfing resistance, other then this every single implemented change was either net even or dog kitten.

Edited June 28, 2022 by FarmBotXD.1430

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

4 hours ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

I'm pretty sure that's something they have down already, though "hire" isn't really the right word. 

There's a discord that exists somewhere in the metaverse in which; during the witching hour, the elite and former elite gather to talk balance directly to Anet.

 

The problem with that is gw2's competitive pro scene specifically. Its filled with more cheaters and egotistical people than most other games, which is surprising when you consider its size.

Not all of them, but certainly a good chunk of the pros are just skill-less metagamers who already use that power to their own personal gain.

 

Ya. This was another point of contention i have had with the leaks . The PvP community has known about this for years...that these rooms exist and that top players shadow orchestrate the balance of the game. The leak was a kind of proof that such rooms exist for sure and weren't just rumors. In addition this room was just one of them and there's probably more of them, that date back to at least as early as june 2020. 

 

Somehow the PR of streamers have turned that narrative around, where the player-base are in support of these rooms and top players...when in my view I think these rooms have been one of the leading causes to the killing of pvp...just to remind everyone: the removals of amulets, the homogenization of skills and effects, the constant nerfs to everything until they are useless...

 

Keep in mind, that the only people that say PVP was saved post February 2020 patch have been top players. 

 

Note the support for that statement on the reddit. It's incredible how backwards this controversy turned out to be.

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

52 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

 

Ya. This was another point of contention i have had with the leaks . The PvP community has known about this for years...that these rooms exist and that top players shadow orchestrate the balance of the game. The leak was a kind of proof that such rooms exist for sure and weren't just rumors. In addition this room was just one of them and there's probably more of them, that date back to at least as early as june 2020. 

Wouldn't be surprised if there were, and I bet the rooms go back even earlier to before the feb 2020 patch dropped because all the streamers and top players hyped up that update like it was the big save that pvp needed.

Quote

 

Somehow the PR of streamers have turned that narrative around, where the player-base are in support of these rooms and top players...when in my view I think these rooms have been one of the leading causes to the killing of pvp...just to remind everyone: the removals of amulets, the homogenization of skills and effects, the constant nerfs to everything until they are useless...

 

Keep in mind, that the only people that say PVP was saved post February 2020 patch have been top players. 

 

100% they have, and they briefly regretted and turned against it for a while.

The time between the feb 2020 patch to EoD launch was a complete joke, the pacing of the game reduced to actual snail speeds. They started to bleed what precious little viewers they had, some started switching over to WvW full-time.

 

But now that EoD is out, some new specs can actually do damage... like... At least two of them can, but anyway that's actual content. People would much rather spectate a game where they understand what is happening on screen and where people actually die and plays get made and these 2 specs can do that.

I'm sure you can guess what those 2 specs are. The forums have only been livid about them for months with several demands to nerf them occupying the top daily, but tomorrow Arenanet will be barely; if at all touching up on them. I wonder who; against the advice of pretty much everyone, made that happen. Hmmm. 🤔

 

Edited June 28, 2022 by Multicolorhipster.9751

[DKRathalos.9625]

14 hours ago, Pimsley.3681 said:

What would you do? (supposed to be a poll but data in itself is useless if not backed by reason or logic)

1. Cancel and overturn the balance updates to a future date
+ shows they read and are concerned about aggregate player base disapproval
+ shows they want damage control
- invest in REALLY balancing specs and doing so in a timely manner
2. Forge on Ahead
+ shows they are determined and not easily swayed by the populous
- bottomless pit unless they are quick to fix, revert or invest more resources to balance yet again. 

 

If you had influence or held a C-suite executive position to make one of two options above, which will YOU choose?

Ideally it will be number 1 but realistically speaking should be number 2.

Note that number 2 is without quick to fix or anything, no need to invest resource to balance yet again.
Maybe you will think "Wait why number 2 and not go with the quick fix? that is bad decision." or "Isn't that showing they don't care about playerbase?"

 

Actually this is the best decision realistically speaking from the management, you can do whatever you want, cost less too. Playerbase? It's ok afterall it's proven time to time that they will accept whatever anet gives them, they might complaint but they will still play why? there are 3 reasons I can think of you may add too if you got any

1. They are already too invested, maybe spent a money for outfits, opening black lion chest etc2. Also they maybe already too invested as in already clearing many raids, get achievement etc2, they can't just leave the game.

2. Some streamers makes money out of gw2, it's their livelihood so it won't be easy for them to just stop playing gw2, especially those who had "ANet partner" status.

3. Players are just being casual and not really care about balance patch, they just want to play with friends, chat with guilds etc2. they might just aim the casual activity too which is not really impacted by the balance patch.

 

Those 3 reasons is good enough to make playerbase can't unite to go on a exodus or boycott, you can leave the game but you can't say the same about the other player, at best they might lose only a very small percentage of their playerbase because of this balance patch. If we want to make them listen to playerbase we have to unite at least 80-90% of playerbase quits gw2 or stop playing for a while, now that will make a big dent to them, but you know that is not realistic.

 

Given all of those facts? Number 2 without fixing is the best choice for management, keep going + less cost less effort.

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

1 hour ago, Multicolorhipster.9751 said:

Wouldn't be surprised if there were, and I bet the rooms go back even earlier to before the feb 2020 patch dropped because all the streamers and top players hyped up that update like it was the big save that pvp needed.

100% they have, and they briefly regretted and turned against it for a while.

The time between the feb 2020 patch to EoD launch was a complete joke, the pacing of the game reduced to actual snail speeds. They started to bleed what precious little viewers they had, some started switching over to WvW full-time.

 

But now that EoD is out, some new specs can actually do damage... like... At least two of them can, but anyway that's actual content. People would much rather spectate a game where they understand what is happening on screen and where people actually die and plays get made and these 2 specs can do that.

I'm sure you can guess what those 2 specs are. The forums have only been livid about them for months with several demands to nerf them occupying the top daily, but tomorrow Arenanet will be barely; if at all touching up on them. I wonder who; against the advice of pretty much everyone, made that happen. Hmmm. 🤔

 

 

Ya. I haven't really played the game in close to 3 or 4 months now. But i know which classes your talking about.
 

To be honest, I have plans to make my own game. I use Unreal Engine in my time as an animator, so I'm gonna put together a demo at some point and see where that goes. Kind of tired of preaching...hoping for new games that just always seem to disappoint.

Edited June 28, 2022 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[Multicolorhipster.9751]

24 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

 

Ya. I haven't really played the game in close to 3 or 4 months now. But i know which classes your talking about.
 

To be honest, I have plans to make my own game. I use Unreal Engine in my time as an animator, so I'm gonna put together a demo at some point and see where that goes. Kind of tired of preaching...hoping for new games that just always seem to disappoint.

That's a big commitment, but I bet you could do it. I'd sooner trust you to balance a game than Arenanet, even if the patch notes might read like Einstein's chalk board.

Still, that is a blessing, not a curse. I wish you luck in the endeavor, goodfellow and maybe one day i'll play it.

[Scoobaniec.9561]

1 hour ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

 

Ya. I haven't really played the game in close to 3 or 4 months now. But i know which classes your talking about.
 

To be honest, I have plans to make my own game. I use Unreal Engine in my time as an animator, so I'm gonna put together a demo at some point and see where that goes. Kind of tired of preaching...hoping for new games that just always seem to disappoint.

Thats funny. Im making my own game in spare time (in Unity, too braindead for UE) as well cuz im tired of all those corpos and games which get ruined/feels copy pasta

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Before I say this I'll point out that I've been playing all game modes for nine years now, having joined during the first Dragon Bash festival when the game was still in its infancy, and have all 36 classes across 20+ characters equipped with multiple tabs of end-game gear and usually a full roster of builds.

 

So understand that I'm a player who understands the game and what is at stake here.

 

BUT, I'm starting to see the same names in these threads over and over, with nothing good to say about the game or company whatsoever. Its fine, you're entitled to your opinion, and we all know the devs have made major mistakes in the past, and the present, but if you don't like the game so much continuing to post in thread after thread about how much you despise it and the devs while also claiming you love it, you don't love it and you should quit for your own good, because I can only imagine how bad you all must feel and what it must be doing to you inside.

 

Honestly, nothing good can come of it. Take a break and come back when things improve, and if they don't improve just find a better game to play and don't return. This is my third MMO that I've had a long-term commitment to in over 20 years and I promise your life will go on without it even if it feels like it won't.

 

There's always going to be something bigger and better down the line.

 

I'll survive the patch and I still love Guild Wars 2. Say it to yourself out loud and if you don't mentally/emotionally agree, I really recommend doing what is best for yourself and moving on. This game is going to get replaced by a sequel eventually and you'll lose everything anyway, its inevitable. Nothing lasts forever.

Edited June 28, 2022 by Hannelore.8153