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New Warhorn 4 Does Not Have Unblockable.


Apokriphos.7042

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So they made the tiny, non-consequential, Life Leech healing on Locust Swarm AoE, added a miniscule +10% outgoing healing modifier to the Warhorn Trait Banshee's Veil on a profession with barely any healing, while the Trait competes with two of the few Trait options to actually add some healing, which includes an already lacklustre permanent AoE Life Leech Aura without the 30 second (24 Traited) CD...

 

In turn, they removed the only niche selling point of WH, the unblockable Daze (and increased it's cast time)? 

10/10 underused weapon rework. After almost 10 years since launch, this is what we get to make this weapon finally desirable? Still no finishers or combo potential unlike any other Warhorn. Still way too long Cooldowns. Still no support to speak off, miniscule healing, no boons - not even the Swiftness is shared. Alternatively still no Damage to give Power Necro a single viable off-hand in PvE, which would have been a better slot for the weapon (with Dagger MH getting Life Siphon as proper AoE healing for support, not entirely dependant on unrealistic 180 radius 5 target cleave).

That's not a balance patch, that's active trolling.

 

/Also, speaking of healing on Necromancer, a friendly reminder that 4 months after EoD launch, Transfusion is still broken on Harbinger, despite being reported as Feedback as early as EoD Beta 1, ~10 months ago.

Edited by Asum.4960
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I dont think I will ever replace focus offhand on spite reaper and any cele build i had with warhorn wont use it anymore. The unblockable cc was its only utility.  I think I might try it on core Terrormancer though even when I think dagger off hand offers more utility than it now

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1 hour ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

I really don't get why they put fear instead

Because people asked for it. Changing this to fear is one of those suggestions that would pop up time and time again because apparently daze made no sense whereas fear did and would have better synergy with the necro kit. 

 

So. Anet listened to those that requested said change and here we are.

 

This for me is once again be careful what you wish for because Anet may implement it but they won't do it the way you're thinking. 

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1 hour ago, Asum.4960 said:

So they made the tiny, non-consequential, Life Leech healing on Locust Swarm AoE, added a miniscule +10% outgoing healing modifier to the Warhorn Trait Banshee's Veil on a profession with barely any healing, while the Trait competes with two of the few Trait options to actually add some healing, which includes an already lacklustre permanent AoE Life Leech Aura without the 30 second (24 Traited) CD...

 

In turn, they removed the only niche selling point of WH, the unblockable Daze? 

10/10 underused weapon rework. After almost 10 years since launch, this is what we get to make this weapon finally desirable? Still no finishers or combo potential unlike any other Warhorn. Still way too long Cooldowns. Still no support to speak off, miniscule healing, no boons - not even the Swiftness is shared. Alternatively still no Damage to give Power Necro a single viable off-hand in PvE, which would have been a better slot for the weapon (with Dagger MH getting Life Siphon as proper AoE healing for support).

That's not a balance patch, that's active trolling.

 

dont forget deaths perception was nerfed all around. lower crit chance and lower damage buff than the 300 ferocity it gave before.

Edited by Lexan.5930
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39 minutes ago, Sigmoid.7082 said:

Because people asked for it. Changing this to fear is one of those suggestions that would pop up time and time again because apparently daze made no sense whereas fear did and would have better synergy with the necro kit. 

 

So. Anet listened to those that requested said change and here we are.

 

This for me is once again be careful what you wish for because Anet may implement it but they won't do it the way you're thinking. 

I don't think the Fear itself is the issue, if it had retained it's unblockable nature, gotten a Blast Finisher in line with other Warhorn skills, as well as a comprehensive rework to Locust Swarm (I'd have favoured a DPS focused rework, finally giving power builds a valid off-hand, taking something like Whirling Axe or Whirling Defense as inspiration - lower damage but no Channel after summoning the Swarm), along with CD reductions to ~20-25 seconds, this would make for a fine kit.

 

22 minutes ago, Lexan.5930 said:

  

 

dont forget deaths perception was nerfed all around. lower crit chance and lower damage buff than the 300 ferocity it gave before.

The multiplicative Critical Damage modifier (which I think it ended up being, I haven't tested) is in theory better than the additive increase that Ferocity provides. 

The problem is the amount of sacrifices necessary now to Crit Cap to utilize that technically better modifier. 

Aside from design confusions, since Anet seemed to want to move away from derived stats and multiplicative modifiers, over to using more widely understood main stats.

Edited by Asum.4960
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Warhorn4 is still better than before. Dread is actually usable now. It's a fantastic new option for low precision builds. 

The heal of wh5 can stack to pretty extreme levels for your party. With healing power as secondary attribute (e.g. plaguedoctor or celestial) it's 88x10=880 heal per target at up to 5 targets. The skill does at lot now (mobility, lf generation, support) for its 30s cooldown.

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On 6/29/2022 at 2:01 AM, KrHome.1920 said:

The heal of wh5 can stack to pretty extreme levels for your party. With healing power as secondary attribute (e.g. plaguedoctor or celestial) it's 88x10=880 heal per target at up to 5 targets. The skill does at lot now (mobility, lf generation, support) for its 30s cooldown.

How is a ~1k heal (with significant healing power investment), personal Swiftness and a bit of LF on a 30 second Cooldown "pretty extreme"?

Edited by Asum.4960
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52 minutes ago, Urgotsfangirl.2408 said:

If you use full magi set + Support + traited Warhorn heals on 5 traget hit up to 1500 heal per second on 4 allys. 7,5 sec x 1500 heal on 24 sec cd. up to 11.000 heal per ally  if you hit 5 tragets.

So, where in the game are you going to have 4 allies hugging you while you're in melee range of 5 enemies for 7.5 seconds?

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1 hour ago, Urgotsfangirl.2408 said:

If you use full magi set + Support + traited Warhorn heals on 5 traget hit up to 1500 heal per second on 4 allys. 7,5 sec x 1500 heal on 24 sec cd. up to 11.000 heal per ally  if you hit 5 tragets.

Yes, if you are on a full support build and if you Trait it and if you cleave 5 targets in a 180 radius and if that happens at the same time as allies within 360 range need a massive heal, it's pretty good. 

 

If that ever regularly happens in actual gameplay, let me know.

Edited by Asum.4960
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8 hours ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

I think it is intented, secret nerf + I really don't get why they put fear instead ? Synergy with dread and reaper ? But still 30sec CD in pve + useless #5, guys ... it s*cks

 

As I feared (no pun intended) they removed the unblockable, which makes warhorn an even more niche weapon than before.

Before the change it was great to interrupt guardians blockheal for example. And in PvE you could do even more breakbar dmg if you used a paralization sigill, now that sigil is worthless.

And while the change is a buff to core condi bunker Necro, it's a nerf to all other specs (who would've imagined they could make warhorn worse as it was xD)

 

3 hours ago, Urgotsfangirl.2408 said:

If you use full magi set + Support + traited Warhorn heals on 5 traget hit up to 1500 heal per second on 4 allys. 7,5 sec x 1500 heal on 24 sec cd. up to 11.000 heal per ally  if you hit 5 tragets.

 

It's actually not those numbers. 

Wh4 heals for 272 per tick if traited.

Now you can gain various 10% heal modifiers (transference sigil, food, trait, utility food, monk rune)

While monk rune theoretically can give 20%, scourge gives so little boons, that the second effect isn't active most of the time.

But still you will have at least +50% outgoing healing.

Which leads to 408 per tick per enemy hit.

That's 816 healing per second. If you can manage to hit 5 enemies, that's 4080hps which nets you a total of 30.600 healing over those 7,5 seconds, which sounds crazy right?!

 

Actually it's not. In endgame PvE boss encounters there's very rarely more than one target to hit (and I didn't even test yet, if the healing actually is per target struck as they said).

Which leads to 6120 healing if you hit only one enemy. That's not too bad, but remember, that you have to hit something all the time, if you have.to run out of range, this will heal nothing.

 

Edited by Nimon.7840
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6 hours ago, Asum.4960 said:

The multiplicative Critical Damage modifier (which I think it ended up being, I haven't tested) is in theory better than the additive increase that Ferocity provides. 

 

old DP was 300 ferocity, per the wiki's calulation of 15 ferocity for 1% crit damage at lv 80, thats 20% crit damage bonus
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ferocity

with new trait crit damage boosted by flat 15% is a nerf.

crit chance from 33% in shroud to 10% always. sounds good but if your in shroud every cooldown (10 seconds), for lets assume 10 seconds then your in 50% of your time. thats approx 16.5% crit chance. also a nerf. just a bad change all around

Edited by Lexan.5930
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5 hours ago, KrHome.1920 said:

Warhorn4 is still better than before. Dread is actually usable now. It's a fantastic new option for low precision builds. 

The heal of wh5 can stack to pretty extreme levels for your party. With healing power as secondary attribute (e.g. plaguedoctor or celestial) it's 88x10=880 heal per target at up to 5 targets. The skill does at lot now (mobility, lf generation, support) for its 30s cooldown.

why the hell would you take dread over close to death??????

you can get better quickness in reaper and perm quickness in harbinger. please dont tell me your running power scourge ><

WH 5 was only ever used for mobility, the cripple is kinda nice but most people have leaps, the LF gen is pittiful and the heal now, again most people just run away. would love to see a "heal" necro in wvw running into blows with WH 5 being like "stay with me i'll heal you!!!" when blocks and prot would just prevent the damage in the first place, and 1 guard puts out more boon and healing than a necro can shake a bone at

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14 minutes ago, Lexan.5930 said:

old DP was 300 ferocity, per the wiki's calulation of 15 ferocity for 1% crit damage at lv 80, thats 20% crit damage bonus
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ferocity

with new trait crit damage boosted by flat 15% is a nerf.

Nope.  You're just wrong here.  The crit damage change was a straight up buff, and a fairly significant one at that.

Let's take the base crit damage you have while naked: 150%.  If you add 300 Ferocity, you now have 170% as your final critical damage multiplier.  If you instead add a separate 15% multiplier (as the new Death Perception is.  Similar traits in other professions all work this way), now you have 150*1.15=172.5% final critical multiplier.

 

A full Ascended Berserker's Reaper with Scholar runes and Cilantro-lime sous-vide steak food has (not counting Death Perception, either pre-patch or post-patch) a final crit damage multiplier of 253.73% while in Shroud.  With old Death Perception (300 Ferocity) this becomes 273.73% final crit damage multiplier.  With new death perception, it becomes 253.73*1.15=291.79% final crit damage multiplier.

 

This is the power of having it be a separate multiplier instead of an additive stat.

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1 hour ago, Lexan.5930 said:

why the hell would you take dread over close to death??????

you can get better quickness in reaper and perm quickness in harbinger. please dont tell me your running power scourge ><

WH 5 was only ever used for mobility, the cripple is kinda nice but most people have leaps, the LF gen is pittiful and the heal now, again most people just run away. would love to see a "heal" necro in wvw running into blows with WH 5 being like "stay with me i'll heal you!!!" when blocks and prot would just prevent the damage in the first place, and 1 guard puts out more boon and healing than a necro can shake a bone at

Eh horn was good LF gen not just mobility. This nerf sucks though, heaven forbid we interrupt guardians and revs. (Or anyone blocking)

This heal is actually some kind of joke, would love to hear the logic on the changes to this weapon because it is completely out of touch with reality. 

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10 hours ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

 I really don't get why they put fear instead ? Synergy with dread and reaper ?

4 (5) traits related to Fear, 0 (1) related to Daze. That part is a straight buff, provided all the other parts of that skill stay the same.

 

And we should rightly report any undocumented change as bug, since that's the only way to voice the fact that we got screwed, intentionaly or not.

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37 minutes ago, Kaladel.1670 said:

4 (5) traits related to Fear, 0 (1) related to Daze. That part is a straight buff, provided all the other parts of that skill stay the same.

 

And we should rightly report any undocumented change as bug, since that's the only way to voice the fact that we got screwed, intentionaly or not.

 

The issue is more about the CD (30sec) and the displaced purpose with warhorn #5 and trait. 
I've made some test and dagger offhand is still better dps on my condi-reaper, even with Spite Dread trait.

 

They should have lowered CD or add a "support" effect like aegis/protection ... or combo finisher.

Edited by Zhaid Zhem.6508
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