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We can rename game Mech Wars 2


Requiem.9648

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20 minutes ago, lblazer.5381 said:

i'm not an expert but what should it be dealing?
i've seen other class skill/trait do more damage than that

Did you bother to see what I highlighted? it wasn't the damage, is the pet suppose to fire off the rockets too or just the player?

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54 minutes ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Anyone wanna explain this to me?

https://i.imgur.com/0TnMmhm.jpg

One seems to be you getting hit by the "pet" and the other one seems to be you getting hit by the player.

 

Quote

is the pet suppose to fire off the rockets too or just the player?

Its part of a trait: "If you have the Explosives trait Aim-Assisted Rocket, your mech also gains the effect of that trait."

Edited by Tails.9372
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2 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Did you bother to see what I highlighted? it wasn't the damage, is the pet suppose to fire off the rockets too or just the player?

Mechanist has a trait which specifically states that it let's the mech shoot rockets as well, yes.
 

Mech Arms: Jade Cannons:

Melee attacks become ranged, have an increased chance to critically hit, and apply vulnerability. Unlocks the Mech Command skill Spark Revolver.

If you have the Explosives trait Aim-Assisted Rocket, your mech also gains the effect of that trait.

 

Edited by Kodama.6453
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39 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Mechanist has a trait which specifically states that it let's the mech shoot rockets as well, yes.
 

Mech Arms: Jade Cannons:

Melee attacks become ranged, have an increased chance to critically hit, and apply vulnerability. Unlocks the Mech Command skill Spark Revolver.

If you have the Explosives trait Aim-Assisted Rocket, your mech also gains the effect of that trait.

 

 

Lamo the traits from mesmer are not even working properly with virtuoso or are heavily restricted but engi receives the extra treatment. (Not wanna say engi should be nerfed).

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5 minutes ago, SugarJohnson.4596 said:

 

Lamo the traits from mesmer are not even working properly with virtuoso or are heavily restricted but engi receives the extra treatment. (Not wanna say engi should be nerfed).

They actually removed trait interactions of the mech with the explosives trait line this patch.

The functionality that the mech can fire the rocket itself has been in the game since the implementation of the mechanist itself. It just used to be on a different trait.

Mech Core: Jade Dynamo used to allow the mech to use ALL on-hit traits from the explosives trait line, which includes:

  • Short Fuse
  • Aim Assisted Rocket
  • Explosive Temper
  • Steel Packed Powder
  • Shrapnel
  • Big Boomer

But they reworked Jade Dynamo to give quickness from mech skill usage instead. Then they moved the interaction of the mech with the Aim Assisted Rocket to the Jade Cannons, but all the other trait interactions got removed.

Edited by Kodama.6453
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15 hours ago, Xenesis.6389 said:

Did you bother to see what I highlighted? it wasn't the damage, is the pet suppose to fire off the rockets too or just the player?

I do think it's pretty funny that the pet hits more than half again as hard as the engineer, though.  Truly something that belongs in competitive play.

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3 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Funny thing is even a lot of engi players hate mech. 

It's not even that many of them actually hate the mech but more like that they are forced to deal with the dumb AI. If one of the minor traits would give the effects that "proc on mech" to the player if the mech is "offline" and if the aerial bombardment from J-Drive would actually make up for the damage you loose from not having your mech out then many of them wouldn't even be as opposed to the spec as they are rn.

And ofc. there are also always those who hate on the spec for unrelated reasons.

 

3 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Anet hasn't addressed any of the core issues with the class. Instead they slap this hilariously broken elite spec on top and call it a day. 

As the last couple of days have shown phrases like "hilariously broken" are, in how they are used, generally just a collection of buzzworts with no real meaning behind it.

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20 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

It's not even that many of them actually hate the mech but more like that they are forced to deal with the dumb AI. If one of the minor traits would give the effects that "proc on mech" to the player if the mech is "offline" and if the aerial bombardment from J-Drive would actually make up for the damage you loose from not having your mech out then many of them wouldn't even be as opposed to the spec as they are rn.

And ofc. there are also always those who hate on the spec for unrelated reasons.

 

As the last couple of days have shown phrases like "hilariously broken" are, in how they are used, generally just a collection of buzzworts with no real meaning behind it.

I love engi, but even I now when to admit that Mech, as a whole, is too strong compared to the competition. A big part of that, in my opinion, is due to the fact that other builds have too many glaring issues that make the user experience of playing these builds poor by comparison. 

I doubt people would care about Mech half as much if their builds also felt good to play, and weren't riddled with outdated traits, skills, weapons, and design flaws. 

I would love to see less hate for Mech and more focus on bringing other builds up to par, but that's not how this community OR Anet works. It's Crab mentality all the way. 

 

As for why I dislike Mech personally. It distracts from all the issues the core class has. Recently core engi shield was nerfed because of Mech. AAR is getting nerfed in the future because of Mech. Rifle was stealth nerfed because of Mech. Meanwhile core engi traitlines like Tools and Inventions are still outdated. Rifle is still lags behind kits, mace, and hammer as a power weapon (even on NON LI builds), kits are outdated, turrets are useless, gadgets are useless. All of it ignored in favor of this Mech outrage. 

 

Part of me wants Mech nerfed into the ground so people can put down their pitchforks and engi mains can bring up the real issues with the class again without someone saying "But Mechanist tho"

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20 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

I love engi, but even I now when to admit that Mech, as a whole, is too strong compared to the competition.

What competition are you talking about? Other support builds? That wasn't the topic of the recent balance changes / outrage. Other DPS specs? Then power rifle mechanist was generally still underperforming when compared to similar builds: "Rifle DE" > "Rifle Mechanist" and for the LI builds: "P/P DE" / "Harbinger in general" > "AA spam Rifle Mechanist". At least for the build that was the topic in question there is no real ground for the claim that it's: "too strong compared to the competition".

21 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

AAR is getting nerfed in the future because of Mech.

No, AAR getting nerfed because A-Net wants to appease people who are throwing a hissy fit over an issue they obviously don't understand (on multiple levels, the lack of basic reading comprehension also seemed to be a major problem here) and not because it is something that actually needed to be nerfed for objective reasons which is a big difference.

39 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Part of me wants Mech nerfed into the ground so people can put down their pitchforks and engi mains can bring up the real issues with the class again

Except if they nerf the mech "into the ground" then the mechs performance becomes a "real issues with the class" which arguably is already the case for certain areas of the game as even the golem from the rune summon can do more than twice the damage of the mech with non crits (and still 50% more with crits) leading so situations where in a damage oriented build it essentially has no real offensive presence on the field which directly goes against their stated spec design and is ultimately just as bad as it being to strong.

 

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1 hour ago, Tails.9372 said:

What competition are you talking about? Other support builds? That wasn't the topic of the recent balance changes / outrage. Other DPS specs? Then power rifle mechanist was generally still underperforming when compared to similar builds: "Rifle DE" > "Rifle Mechanist" and for the LI builds: "P/P DE" / "Harbinger in general" > "AA spam Rifle Mechanist". At least for the build that was the topic in question there is no real ground for the claim that it's: "too strong compared to the competition".

No, AAR getting nerfed because A-Net wants to appease people who are throwing a hissy fit over an issue they obviously don't understand (on multiple levels, the lack of basic reading comprehension also seemed to be a major problem here) and not because it is something that actually needed to be nerfed for objective reasons which is a big difference.

Except if they nerf the mech "into the ground" then the mechs performance becomes a "real issues with the class" which arguably is already the case for certain areas of the game as even the golem from the rune summon can do more than twice the damage of the mech with non crits (and still 50% more with crits) leading so situations where in a damage oriented build it essentially has no real offensive presence on the field which directly goes against their stated spec design and is ultimately just as bad as it being to strong.

 

I agree. DPS Mech builds are, in all likelyhood, A tier at best after the nerfs. With the mech auto nerfs, the rifle nerfs, the signet nerfs, and upcoming buffs to other classes I don't see it remaining FOTM for much longer. 

Heal Mech is still a phenominal healer, but not all Mech builds are heal mech. 

The problem is balance perception inertia. Mech came out broken, it's easy to play, it has a strong AI compantion that the community can easily point at and draw a target on for nerf. I doubt that perception will change until ANET does something drastic, which would probably have to involve nerfing Mech into dust, letting the community banwagon onto some other spec, then slowly bringing it back up later. 

Alternatively, they could just... not give into the community outrage and balance the Engineer profession appropriately, including giving some needed attention to Core Engi and Scrapper, but I've lost faith in that possibility. Not until the community outrage dies down so suggestions on how to improve Engi stops being drowned out, and for the sake of my sanity, I don't dare raise my expectations.

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3 hours ago, Tails.9372 said:

It's not even that many of them actually hate the mech but more like that they are forced to deal with the dumb AI. If one of the minor traits would give the effects that "proc on mech" to the player if the mech is "offline" and if the aerial bombardment from J-Drive would actually make up for the damage you loose from not having your mech out then many of them wouldn't even be as opposed to the spec as they are rn.

And ofc. there are also always those who hate on the spec for unrelated reasons.

 

As the last couple of days have shown phrases like "hilariously broken" are, in how they are used, generally just a collection of buzzworts with no real meaning behind it.

Maybe if I deny it they'll take longer to realize how hilariously broken it is...

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1 hour ago, Kuma.1503 said:

I agree. DPS Mech builds are, in all likelyhood, A tier at best after the nerfs. With the mech auto nerfs, the rifle nerfs, the signet nerfs, and upcoming buffs to other classes I don't see it remaining FOTM for much longer. 

Heal Mech is still a phenominal healer, but not all Mech builds are heal mech. 

The problem is balance perception inertia. Mech came out broken, it's easy to play, it has a strong AI compantion that the community can easily point at and draw a target on for nerf. I doubt that perception will change until ANET does something drastic, which would probably have to involve nerfing Mech into dust, letting the community banwagon onto some other spec, then slowly bringing it back up later. 

Alternatively, they could just... not give into the community outrage and balance the Engineer profession appropriately, including giving some needed attention to Core Engi and Scrapper, but I've lost faith in that possibility. Not until the community outrage dies down so suggestions on how to improve Engi stops being drowned out, and for the sake of my sanity, I don't dare raise my expectations.

No.  The problem is mech is OP af.  Heal mech by itself is firebrand levels of ridiculous, but the DPS specs are not bad at all either and they're braindead easy to perform well with.  It isn't "balance perception inertia" that's causing players to flock to this spec.  It's how strong the spec is.

Fixing core specs is something that needs to happen, but it can't happen without essentially making them into their own elite specs.  They simply can't compete when the elites get everything the core specs get plus a trait line, weapon unlock, utility set, and class gimmick.  The core specs need all of that to force the same tradeoffs we see between elite specs (when they're even remotely balanced, of course).

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2 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

but the DPS specs are not bad at all either and they're braindead easy to perform well with

That's not really a true statement unless you want to make the argument that "everything is way to easy to play". The ones which are actually "not bad at all" require a rotation comparable to what you would expect to see from other classes and the "braindead easy to perform well with" selfish DPS ones do comparatively abysmal damage (and did so even before the latest nerf) to the point where support hybrid builds are out-damaging them.

 

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2 hours ago, Tails.9372 said:

That's not really a true statement unless you want to make the argument that "everything is way to easy to play". The ones which are actually "not bad at all" require a rotation comparable to what you would expect to see from other classes and the "braindead easy to perform well with" selfish DPS ones do comparatively abysmal damage (and did so even before the latest nerf) to the point where support hybrid builds are out-damaging them.

 

That is what this is all about, isn't it?  This dev team wants to reduce the difference between the high end and the low end in part by overtuning easier specs and lowering the skill floor.

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