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Old Kaineng


SoulGuardian.6203

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I've been meaning to... but hesitated to post this, in hope that I would find the answer somewhere else; but what best way to get information than at its source, right?

 

So, the question is:

Why did the devs decided the to place Old Kaineng in the wrong map location, right behind New Kaineng... when Old Kaineng is to the North of there, in the area where you can't even get to...?

 

Is there any way on earth that you guys could change this, and place Old Kaineng and Raisu Palace, in their rightful place on the map?

 

I must admit that I was left a little tiny bit shocked that this happened, but played through the entire story to see if it would make sense.

I've been reading through other sources, but it did not become any clearer as to why this happened. 

 

Any chance at all that you guys could open up the map in the right place?

I must'n be the only one who us really bothered by this.

 

I can understand and appreciate that the devs did their best to meet the deadline, with the covid situation and all... working from home and such, at a slower pace than usual. 

Now that the situation is a bit better though.

 

Everything else on the maps looks really good and beautiful. 

Gorgeous scenery. 

 

Thanks in advance for any information you can provide.

 

Edited by SoulGuardian.6203
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There is an older thread where people talked about the locations of Old Kaineng and New Kaineng.

Old Kaineng is NOT placed wrongly. The area referred to as old Kaineng ruins in the northern parts of the map are, in fact, part of what used to be the Nahpui quarter in Factions. The label "Drowned Kaineng" is also much further up north and pretty much in the centre of Faction's playable Kaineng City space.

If anything, what's wrong/a retcon is the New Kaineng lore that the new city was built on unoccupied land. I created an overlay in the aforementioned thread that shows the urban sprawl of GW1's Kaineng City in red. New Kaineng is pretty much in the southern/central urban areas of GW1's version of the city, albeit unplayable in that game and only shown on the ingame map.

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On 6/30/2022 at 4:33 AM, SunRoamer.5103 said:

There is an older thread where people talked about the locations of Old Kaineng and New Kaineng.

Old Kaineng is NOT placed wrongly. The area referred to as old Kaineng ruins in the northern parts of the map are, in fact, part of what used to be the Nahpui quarter in Factions. The label "Drowned Kaineng" is also much further up north and pretty much in the centre of Faction's playable Kaineng City space.

If anything, what's wrong/a retcon is the New Kaineng lore that the new city was built on unoccupied land. I created an overlay in the aforementioned thread that shows the urban sprawl of GW1's Kaineng City in red. New Kaineng is pretty much in the southern/central urban areas of GW1's version of the city, albeit unplayable in that game and only shown on the ingame map.

Could be they meant 'unoccupied' as in nobody was living there anymore.

IIRC, isn't it implied the Naga moved in first, and then got kicked out for the rebuilding?

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1 hour ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Could be they meant 'unoccupied' as in nobody was living there anymore.

IIRC, isn't it implied the Naga moved in first, and then got kicked out for the rebuilding?

They claimed it was a Naga swamp. It's clearly city.

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1 hour ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Could be they meant 'unoccupied' as in nobody was living there anymore.

IIRC, isn't it implied the Naga moved in first, and then got kicked out for the rebuilding?

That's specifically the reason I call it a retcon of sorts. The naga in EoD talk about the territory of New Kaineng as if they had lived there until the Zhaitan disaster, yet the Factions world map clearly shows that it was part of the sprawl of Old Kaineng.

Granted, we never saw the area as playable space, but it was still in the game in GW1's very realistic-looking map art.

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17 minutes ago, SunRoamer.5103 said:

That's specifically the reason I call it a retcon of sorts. The naga in EoD talk about the territory of New Kaineng as if they had lived there until the Zhaitan disaster, yet the Factions world map clearly shows that it was part of the sprawl of Old Kaineng.

Granted, we never saw the area as playable space, but it was still in the game in GW1's very realistic-looking map art.

I just want to see the space that still looks like city in GWW2, under shing jea.  It would’ve been protected from the wave so it would be unique, old architecture that survived but of course has been modded and Jade teched up until it’s almost like the new city but still unique

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55 minutes ago, Fenom.9457 said:

I just want to see the space that still looks like city in GWW2, under shing jea.  It would’ve been protected from the wave so it would be unique, old architecture that survived but of course has been modded and Jade teched up until it’s almost like the new city but still unique

Sunjiang District also seems relatively unscathed.

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20 hours ago, Faridah.8431 said:

They claimed it was a Naga swamp. It's clearly city.

 

19 hours ago, SunRoamer.5103 said:

That's specifically the reason I call it a retcon of sorts. The naga in EoD talk about the territory of New Kaineng as if they had lived there until the Zhaitan disaster, yet the Factions world map clearly shows that it was part of the sprawl of Old Kaineng.

Granted, we never saw the area as playable space, but it was still in the game in GW1's very realistic-looking map art.

 

Could it, hypothetically, be that the lower levels of the city were swamp-like and inhabited by the Naga, and the wave just washed the debris above them away? Or an abandoned part of the city nobody really went to anymore?

 

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7 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

 

 

Could it, hypothetically, be that the lower levels of the city were swamp-like and inhabited by the Naga, and the wave just washed the debris above them away? Or an abandoned part of the city nobody really went to anymore?

 

There is such a thing as giving too much of the benefit of a doubt. One could hypothetically assume a whole lot of things, but the most reasonable one is that this is a retcon due to EoD being made by different people, at least a few of whom didn't play or research GW Factions and instead just wanted to do their own thing.

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11 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

There is such a thing as giving too much of the benefit of a doubt. One could hypothetically assume a whole lot of things, but the most reasonable one is that this is a retcon due to EoD being made by different people, at least a few of whom didn't play or research GW Factions and instead just wanted to do their own thing.

There is also the fact that discussing what if's is more interesting then just sitting down and saying "This is a retcon, there is no explanation, case closed."

We never explored that region of Kaineng in GW1, and there are situations IRL where urban areas get abandoned.

Also another aspect is Guild wars has established that sometimes groups alter history.

Naga claiming ownership and somebody else saying it has nobody living there (implying the Naga just arrived) to clear it out.

Honestly, it's just more fun to look at something and explore options. Yes, it's probably a minor retcon of an area that was only ever just shown in the world map. But we can still discuss why or how.

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It was 250 years since it was a city. As we saw in GW1, Old Kaineng was pretty much a fire hazard waiting to happen, if not collapsing from some other natural disaster. I would not find it unbelievable  if that part of the city got destroyed within that 250 years, claimed by Naga, and then rebuilt into New Kaineng after the Zhaitan flood.

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On 6/30/2022 at 10:07 AM, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Why did the devs decided the to place Old Kaineng in the wrong map location, right behind New Kaineng... when Old Kaineng is to the North of there, in the area where you can't even get to...?

What you are referring to is only a small portion, the rest of Old Kaineng ("Drowned Kaineng") is indeed north of NKC.

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16 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

There is such a thing as giving too much of the benefit of a doubt. One could hypothetically assume a whole lot of things, but the most reasonable one is that this is a retcon due to EoD being made by different people, at least a few of whom didn't play or research GW Factions and instead just wanted to do their own thing.

This sounds more like it.

 

I've been reading many versions on the same lore.

 

Old Kaineng was abandoned and Kaineng city was built in factions.

Then came Zhaitan wave that drowned kaineng city.

Surviving Humans moved back to old kaineng that was taken over by naga, but eventually the flood got there, so new kaineng was built.

 

Am I getting this so far?

 

Edit:

On a sidenote, Taken how large the undending ocean is, and the distance from Orr to Cantha.

There's no tidal wave or flood who could possibly drawn that much of kaineng city, if the flood even got that far, which taking geological facts into consideration, Cantha would not even be affected at all.

Just stating facts.

The most it would do is raise the water levels a couple of inches.

NOT the catastrophe placed in game.

If a tidal wave had the force and density to drawn the whole of kaineng city, then judging by its force, volume, and speed, the whole of kryta had to be underwater.

But hey, technical facts be damned.

 

Edit 2:

Considering the geological facts I just provided.

Why isn't sparkfly fen and bloodtide coast completely submerged?

Why isn't southsun cove, metrica province, Rata Sum, the Grove, and Sanctum Cay?

Even though it's not a playable area but it's in the map.

Just trying to get a clear picture, and that's why I agree with the quote I made.

 

Edited by SoulGuardian.6203
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There is a difference between Kaineng center and Kaineng city. Kaineng center was a "town". This was the technical term for an intance where you could meet other people in GW1 that was of a bigger size (compared to e.g. outpost).

This was just a small part of Kaineng city, which was and is one of the largest city's around. Most of the city drowned and is not inhabited. The part of "New kaineng City" that is uninhabitted by civilized worlds, is called old kaineng, as it is part of the old city and in ruins.

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On 7/3/2022 at 11:01 AM, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

On a sidenote, Taken how large the undending ocean is, and the distance from Orr to Cantha.

There's no tidal wave or flood who could possibly drawn that much of kaineng city, if the flood even got that far, which taking geological facts into consideration, Cantha would not even be affected at all.

Just stating facts.

The most it would do is raise the water levels a couple of inches.

NOT the catastrophe placed in game.

If a tidal wave had the force and density to drawn the whole of kaineng city, then judging by its force, volume, and speed, the whole of kryta had to be underwater.

But hey, technical facts be damned.

 

It doesn't have to be taller then all of Kaineng. Have you see how far it drops to "ground" level in GW1? While K-center area and the area is ontop of cliffs at the shoreline, immediately within you have massive chasms in the city going down deep. Combo with questionable building stability that may exist, a wave smashing the first set of buildings down into the chasms/other areas and washing out the lower levels causing collapses would be a possibility.

The way it's implied ingame is that while the outer edges are built up on cliffs, the area beyond those has been carved out deep, or had a lower ground level. Like New Orleans in RL. It's built below sea level so when the barriers break, it floods hard.

Also as we've seen in GW2, and on the world map (plus references that Raisu Palace is intact by npcs) we can easily see that the stone cores of the structures remained intact mostly, but the wood and scaffolding was swept away and destroyed.

On 7/3/2022 at 11:01 AM, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Considering the geological facts I just provided.

Why isn't sparkfly fen and bloodtide coast completely submerged?

Why isn't southsun cove, metrica province, Rata Sum, the Grove, and Sanctum Cay?

Even though it's not a playable area but it's in the map.

Just trying to get a clear picture, and that's why I agree with the quote I made.

The coastline was changed in Kryta. Look at where old LA is in GW2, compare it to GW1.

Before those structures were on the waterline. Now they are deep below it. As I recall from bits I've read, Sea of Sorrow's described LA as completely destroyed by the wave.

Ring of Fire islands were changed, as was the battle isles.

The coastlines of Kryta and Maguuma did get affected by the raising of Orr, a huge chunk of land. Also unlike Kaineng, those areas were able to drain out excess water and the locals were able to clear out undead. Kaineng as we know from GW1, has deep inner areas that would trap water, and the huge population of the area would mean there is perhaps millions of corpses trapped underwater or in ruins among the corrupted artifacts.

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On 7/3/2022 at 6:01 PM, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

On a sidenote, Taken how large the undending ocean is, and the distance from Orr to Cantha.

There's no tidal wave or flood who could possibly drawn that much of kaineng city, if the flood even got that far, which taking geological facts into consideration, Cantha would not even be affected at all.

Just stating facts.

An earthquake of around 7.9 magnitude is powerful enough to cause powerful tsunami's and cause significant sea level changes.

For comparison, the largest ever earthquake in recorded history was classed as a 9.5, it happened in 1960 and is known as the Great Chilean Earthquake.

It started in the pacific ocean off the coast of Chile and caused monumental damage, mostly by tsunami's which decimated the already earthquake damaged coastal cities of Chile with enough force to push entire buildings from their foundations.

It wasn't just Chile either, this quake affected the entire pacific basin and it was confirmed that some of these tsunami's reached and killed people as far away as the Philippines.

 

From that horrible event alone we know that a 9.5 earthquake is powerful enough to send 200 mile per hour tsunami's from South America across the entire distance of the pacific ocean and cause destruction to locations as far as the Philippines.
That's a distance of a little over 10,600 miles.

 

When Zhaitan woke up.. he didn't just cause an earthquake, he raised an entire country from the depths of the ocean.. a landmass around the size of or possibly bigger than Istan.

I would say such an event is easily more than likely to exceed the destructive force of the worlds strongest recorded earthquake.

So Cantha which im pretty sure wouldn't be further away from Orr than the Philippines is from Chile is definitely within a believable destruction range for the tsunami's Zhaitan caused.

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43 minutes ago, Teratus.2859 said:

An earthquake of around 7.9 magnitude is powerful enough to cause powerful tsunami's and cause significant sea level changes.

For comparison, the largest ever earthquake in recorded history was classed as a 9.5, it happened in 1960 and is known as the Great Chilean Earthquake.

It started in the pacific ocean off the coast of Chile and caused monumental damage, mostly by tsunami's which decimated the already earthquake damaged coastal cities of Chile with enough force to push entire buildings from their foundations.

It wasn't just Chile either, this quake affected the entire pacific basin and it was confirmed that some of these tsunami's reached and killed people as far away as the Philippines.

 

From that horrible event alone we know that a 9.5 earthquake is powerful enough to send 200 mile per hour tsunami's from South America across the entire distance of the pacific ocean and cause destruction to locations as far as the Philippines.
That's a distance of a little over 10,600 miles.

 

When Zhaitan woke up.. he didn't just cause an earthquake, he raised an entire country from the depths of the ocean.. a landmass around the size of or possibly bigger than Istan.

I would say such an event is easily more than likely to exceed the destructive force of the worlds strongest recorded earthquake.

So Cantha which im pretty sure wouldn't be further away from Orr than the Philippines is from Chile is definitely within a believable destruction range for the tsunami's Zhaitan caused.

You're saying in theory, and comparing a country being slowly pulled from the depths of the ocean, to a massive impact or showave effect. 

They are two very different effects.

If Zhaitan pulled Orr from the deep at a large speed, everything would just crumble.

Let's assume, (Because we don't know for sure), Zhaitan pulled Orr from the depths at... say 1 mph.

The effect would be a series of smaller waves.

Similar to a ripple effect.

Let's be realistic. 

Not even Zhaitan can defy gravity; so, in order for a wave to be large enough to reach Cantha, a massive shockwave would have to happen.

Meaning Zhaitan would have to pull Orr... let's speculate, at 100 mph.

That would just make everything crumble, and orr would be nothing but sand and rubble, which we all know it isn't. 

There are many standing temples, and there are even boats standing on top of other things.

Those boats would be just debris. Not whole.

So, because even boats are standing... on top of hills... almost intact;  Orr had to be pulled out really, really slow.

That means that it would have Not created a massive tidal wave.

It would have not caused all that destruction around.

The smaller slow moving waves would have spread all over the place, even in areas of the map that we can't even see.... and again, at worse it would have only raised the water levels a few inches.

 

Nice try though. 

Close, but no Cigar.

Edited by SoulGuardian.6203
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1 hour ago, Teratus.2859 said:

An earthquake of around 7.9 magnitude is powerful enough to cause powerful tsunami's and cause significant sea level changes.

For comparison, the largest ever earthquake in recorded history was classed as a 9.5, it happened in 1960 and is known as the Great Chilean Earthquake.

It started in the pacific ocean off the coast of Chile and caused monumental damage, mostly by tsunami's which decimated the already earthquake damaged coastal cities of Chile with enough force to push entire buildings from their foundations.

It wasn't just Chile either, this quake affected the entire pacific basin and it was confirmed that some of these tsunami's reached and killed people as far away as the Philippines.

 

From that horrible event alone we know that a 9.5 earthquake is powerful enough to send 200 mile per hour tsunami's from South America across the entire distance of the pacific ocean and cause destruction to locations as far as the Philippines.
That's a distance of a little over 10,600 miles.

 

When Zhaitan woke up.. he didn't just cause an earthquake, he raised an entire country from the depths of the ocean.. a landmass around the size of or possibly bigger than Istan.

I would say such an event is easily more than likely to exceed the destructive force of the worlds strongest recorded earthquake.

So Cantha which im pretty sure wouldn't be further away from Orr than the Philippines is from Chile is definitely within a believable destruction range for the tsunami's Zhaitan caused.

I've slightly less of a problem with the distance of the 'Orr Tsunami' and it destruction of Kaineng and more of a problem with it managing to do this much damage to Cantha, but in Tyria the rising of Orr mostly only drowned Lion's Arch and did some comparitivly slight shifting of the coastline.  If there were at all consistent then the Pale Tree would have been washed away almost a hundred years before she would have had a chance to start creating the Sylvari, along with much of the rest of the southern half of the Tarnished Coast.  And surely Shing Jea should be in worse shape than its currently in.  Its all just so contrived.

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11 hours ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

You're saying in theory, and comparing a country being slowly pulled from the depths of the ocean, to a massive impact or showave effect.

Orr was lifted up at enough speed that it actively shipwrecked vessels above where land once was, killing the crews and wiping out the Corsairs who had used that area as a refuge, as well as local wildlife.

Putting a ton of mechanical focus on something which is literally "A dragon woke up and brought up a landmass with him from it's resting place at the bottom of the ocean which was caused by a single, destructive spell that sunk the entire land."

Zhaitan is big, but he ain't that big. To assume there wasn't something involved in the process is..

 

9 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

I've slightly less of a problem with the distance of the 'Orr Tsunami' and it destruction of Kaineng and more of a problem with it managing to do this much damage to Cantha, but in Tyria the rising of Orr mostly only drowned Lion's Arch and did some comparitivly slight shifting of the coastline.  If there were at all consistent then the Pale Tree would have been washed away almost a hundred years before she would have had a chance to start creating the Sylvari, along with much of the rest of the southern half of the Tarnished Coast.  And surely Shing Jea should be in worse shape than its currently in.  Its all just so contrived.

Again, look at Kaineng in GW1. That was not exactly a solid construction throughout most of the region we saw. It's not that shocking to me to imagine the wave smashed through the structures and washed away chunks of the weaker structures. Especially when you look at the chasms in the city going down to what appears to be ground level.

Just watched a video of a Tsunami hitting two types of structures. one was an more modern apartment building that got a glancing hit and the balcony got destroyed. The other was wooden structures that were erased by the wave.

Similar to how old Kaineng is shown in EoD, with the one section at the north (where the vault is) being solid stone walls and structural bits deep below the water. You can even see parts of a roof down there. The parts closer to town have been filled in with dirt, but that section has a lot more depth.

Much less "reshaped cantha" and more of "Washed away all the weaker structures and supports of Kaineng."

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12 hours ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

You're saying in theory, and comparing a country being slowly pulled from the depths of the ocean, to a massive impact or showave effect. 

They are two very different effects.

To my knowledge we have no confirmed speed at which this event actually happened, only that it did cause massive tusnami's.

12 hours ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Let's assume, (Because we don't know for sure), Zhaitan pulled Orr from the depths at... say 1 mph.

The effect would be a series of smaller waves.

Similar to a ripple effect.

Let's be realistic. 

Realistically, such an event wouldn't only displace massive amounts of water, but it would also cause catastrophic earthquakes at the same time.

Earthquakes easily big enough to cause the kind of tsunami's that are depicted to happen in the event.

12 hours ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Not even Zhaitan can defy gravity.

Umm.. he can fly dude 😛 

12 hours ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

so, in order for a wave to be large enough to reach Cantha, a massive shockwave would have to happen.

I highly expect it did considering the size of the tsunami created by the event would have required such a shockwave to form in the first place.

12 hours ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

That would just make everything crumble, and orr would be nothing but sand and rubble, which we all know it isn't. 

There are many standing temples, and there are even boats standing on top of other things.

For the most part it is.

Plus we also need to keep in mind that Arah which is largely the most intact location in Orr, despite also being in ruins was not built by mortal hands, it was built by and protected by the Human Gods who once lived there.

Even in Gw2 some of their servants still protect those lands, while others corrupted by Zhaitan claimed them for their own.

Suffice to say whether God or Dragon, Orr has always had a powerful entity somewhat protecting it.

12 hours ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Those boats would be just debris. Not whole.

So, because even boats are standing... on top of hills... almost intact;  Orr had to be pulled out really, really slow.

That means that it would have Not created a massive tidal wave.

You're assuming that all these ship wrecks existed before the rise of Zhaitan but that isn't the case.

Some shipwrecks did happen pre rising mostly during the cataclysm, the event that sank Orr originally and to my knowledge the ones confirmed to have been wrecked then remain underwater in Orr today such as The Golden Vanity.

Some ships were wrecked after the rise of Orr while fighting Zhaitan's forces.

Some were confirmed to have been wrecked during the rise of Orr event.. one of them which I know for certain was is the Saehrimnir.

Then there are other ships such as the Indomitable which were also destroyed during the rising of Orr but were not left as wrecks, they were instead corrupted and integrated into Zhaitans undead Navy along with their crews.

 

For a good few ships there is just no confirmation of when they were wrecked nor how they came to be in the places they are.

But that isn't something unique to Orr either, there are equally baffling shipwrecks in other Tyrian locations which nobody can explain, such as the SS Topsy Turvy which is hanging over a chasm buried underground in the middle of the Silverwastes.

11 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

I've slightly less of a problem with the distance of the 'Orr Tsunami' and it destruction of Kaineng and more of a problem with it managing to do this much damage to Cantha, but in Tyria the rising of Orr mostly only drowned Lion's Arch and did some comparitivly slight shifting of the coastline.  If there were at all consistent then the Pale Tree would have been washed away almost a hundred years before she would have had a chance to start creating the Sylvari, along with much of the rest of the southern half of the Tarnished Coast.  And surely Shing Jea should be in worse shape than its currently in.  Its all just so contrived.

Now that is a fair argument, the Tarnished Coast in particular should have suffered more damage so it's curious why it didn't.

 

At least for Lions Arch we can see many islands and the entire retconned in island of Southsun Cove between that and Orr which would have taken the brunt of those tsunami's, lessening the damage to the mainland.

But the Tarnished Coast has little to no natural protection like that.

Rata Sum being a floating city probably could have survived any waves that would have hit it providing the city existed before the Rising of Orr (I'm not 100% that is the case though)

But the Grove in particular was in the front of it..

I can only think of 2 reasons the Grove survived.

1. It is based fairly high up on cliffs as we can see in game.. perhaps it did once have a natural barrier which is what protected it from the rising of Orr, the cliffs taking the brunt of the impact from tsunami's and then collapsing into the ocean afterwards.

2. Or, the Pale Tree protected the area somehow with magic..

My problem with the second explanation though is that we've never actually seen the Pale Tree do anything like that, she's never really expressed any ability to manipulate the physical world like for example Queen Jenna did when she put a barrier over Divinity's Reach.

We've only seen her show power's in the sense of visons and connecting to the dream.. not actual physical magic outside of the ability to grow things.. so it's entirely speculative that she is even capable of something like that.. so i'd have to go with the first explanation even though there's no specific lore to back it up.

I guess the only real way to prove that would be to go back to Gw1 and look around the same area to see what the original landmass was like and possibly find enough of it to justify that explanation.

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4 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

To my knowledge we have no confirmed speed at which this event actually happened, only that it did cause massive tusnami's.

Realistically, such an event wouldn't only displace massive amounts of water, but it would also cause catastrophic earthquakes at the same time.

Earthquakes easily big enough to cause the kind of tsunami's that are depicted to happen in the event.

Umm.. he can fly dude 😛 

I highly expect it did considering the size of the tsunami created by the event would have required such a shockwave to form in the first place.

For the most part it is.

Plus we also need to keep in mind that Arah which is largely the most intact location in Orr, despite also being in ruins was not built by mortal hands, it was built by and protected by the Human Gods who once lived there.

Even in Gw2 some of their servants still protect those lands, while others corrupted by Zhaitan claimed them for their own.

Suffice to say whether God or Dragon, Orr has always had a powerful entity somewhat protecting it.

You're assuming that all these ship wrecks existed before the rise of Zhaitan but that isn't the case.

Some shipwrecks did happen pre rising mostly during the cataclysm, the event that sank Orr originally and to my knowledge the ones confirmed to have been wrecked then remain underwater in Orr today such as The Golden Vanity.

Some ships were wrecked after the rise of Orr while fighting Zhaitan's forces.

Some were confirmed to have been wrecked during the rise of Orr event.. one of them which I know for certain was is the Saehrimnir.

Then there are other ships such as the Indomitable which were also destroyed during the rising of Orr but were not left as wrecks, they were instead corrupted and integrated into Zhaitans undead Navy along with their crews.

 

For a good few ships there is just no confirmation of when they were wrecked nor how they came to be in the places they are.

But that isn't something unique to Orr either, there are equally baffling shipwrecks in other Tyrian locations which nobody can explain, such as the SS Topsy Turvy which is hanging over a chasm buried underground in the middle of the Silverwastes.

Now that is a fair argument, the Tarnished Coast in particular should have suffered more damage so it's curious why it didn't.

 

At least for Lions Arch we can see many islands and the entire retconned in island of Southsun Cove between that and Orr which would have taken the brunt of those tsunami's, lessening the damage to the mainland.

But the Tarnished Coast has little to no natural protection like that.

Rata Sum being a floating city probably could have survived any waves that would have hit it providing the city existed before the Rising of Orr (I'm not 100% that is the case though)

But the Grove in particular was in the front of it..

I can only think of 2 reasons the Grove survived.

1. It is based fairly high up on cliffs as we can see in game.. perhaps it did once have a natural barrier which is what protected it from the rising of Orr, the cliffs taking the brunt of the impact from tsunami's and then collapsing into the ocean afterwards.

2. Or, the Pale Tree protected the area somehow with magic..

My problem with the second explanation though is that we've never actually seen the Pale Tree do anything like that, she's never really expressed any ability to manipulate the physical world like for example Queen Jenna did when she put a barrier over Divinity's Reach.

We've only seen her show power's in the sense of visons and connecting to the dream.. not actual physical magic outside of the ability to grow things.. so it's entirely speculative that she is even capable of something like that.. so i'd have to go with the first explanation even though there's no specific lore to back it up.

I guess the only real way to prove that would be to go back to Gw1 and look around the same area to see what the original landmass was like and possibly find enough of it to justify that explanation.

No offence, but you're just talking a lot of bologni here.

Zhaitan can fly yes.

But you know very well that's not what I meant.

Nothing can defy gravity in terms of physics. 

You can say all the nonsense you want, but I already explained it in plain english why it's impossible for Zhaitan to have created that much devastation in certain handpicked areas... and others stay almost unscathed. 

 

That's two other people who said the same thing about only areas that meant a great deal in GW1, had been flooded, destroyed, or branded/corrupted, etc...

 

Now, I'm not claiming anything here, less having any conspiracy theory.

But it does seem very odd.

 

Except for Lions Arch and Eye of the North that have been restored... and Rata Sum that has a giant Cube on top.

But I don't even spend that much time in those places on either game.

 

In GW1, I spend a lot of time in Kamadan, Sunspear sanctuary, Sifhala, Kaineng City, Longeyes Edge, The Jade Sea area, 

and frequently visit Temple of Balthazar, and Embark Beach.

All gone.

The jade sea has all been modified, and not even Cavalon exists anymore.

I really like the jade tech advance, but I think that Shing Jea monastery should have been left alone on that respect. 

 

I really would like for at least the main outposts from GW1 to be restored and/or retaken by Allied forces. (Human, Charr, Norn, Asura and Sylvari. )

That means Kaineng City, Kamadan, and all the other players favourite places.

 

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1 hour ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

No offence, but you're just talking a lot of bologni here.

Zhaitan can fly yes.

But you know very well that's not what I meant.

Lol I was obviously making a smart*** joke there dude.

It was implied with the smiley.
Just having a bit of friendly fun with ya ^^

1 hour ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

You can say all the nonsense you want, but I already explained it in plain english why it's impossible for Zhaitan to have created that much devastation in certain handpicked areas... and others stay almost unscathed.

I actually agreed with the handpicking areas thing, I said as much in my response to Greyhawks comment.

Which I also provided some explanations on how some areas could have had their damage minimized.


What I disagreed with you on was your comments which you stated as facts, about the waves not being possible to hit Cantha from that distance, and the dismissal of a large landmass rising from the ocean not causing large tsunami's.
We've pretty strong real world evidence to show that both those things are certainly possible.. if not very likely to happen in that scenario, which is why I used a real world earthquake as an example.

1 hour ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

Except for Lions Arch and Eye of the North that have been restored..

Technically Lions Arch wasn't restored, they built a new one further up the coast.

The original LA ruins are still underwater and explorable in Gw2.

The Eye of the North was restored though that's true, although not quite to it's former glory... more like new and "improved" depending on personal preferences.
Personally I preferred the original Gw1 Eye myself.

1 hour ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

In GW1, I spend a lot of time in Kamadan, Sunspear sanctuary, Sifhala, Kaineng City, Longeyes Edge, The Jade Sea area, 

and frequently visit Temple of Balthazar, and Embark Beach.

All gone.

The jade sea has all been modified, and not even Cavalon exists anymore.

I really like the jade tech advance, but I think that Shing Jea monastery should have been left alone on that respect. 

I don't disagree with that.

Some areas in Gw1 do appeal more than they do in Gw2 although it does make some sense why some have changed so much.
Palawadan for example.

 

But there are some old locations like the Suns Refuge which really do feel like a huge waste sadly.

They could have done a lot more with locations like that and imo they really should have gone all in on them and made them highly customisable home instances.

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11 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Orr was lifted up at enough speed that it actively shipwrecked vessels above where land once was, killing the crews and wiping out the Corsairs who had used that area as a refuge, as well as local wildlife.

Putting a ton of mechanical focus on something which is literally "A dragon woke up and brought up a landmass with him from it's resting place at the bottom of the ocean which was caused by a single, destructive spell that sunk the entire land."

Zhaitan is big, but he ain't that big. To assume there wasn't something involved in the process is..

 

Again, look at Kaineng in GW1. That was not exactly a solid construction throughout most of the region we saw. It's not that shocking to me to imagine the wave smashed through the structures and washed away chunks of the weaker structures. Especially when you look at the chasms in the city going down to what appears to be ground level.

Just watched a video of a Tsunami hitting two types of structures. one was an more modern apartment building that got a glancing hit and the balcony got destroyed. The other was wooden structures that were erased by the wave.

Similar to how old Kaineng is shown in EoD, with the one section at the north (where the vault is) being solid stone walls and structural bits deep below the water. You can even see parts of a roof down there. The parts closer to town have been filled in with dirt, but that section has a lot more depth.

Much less "reshaped cantha" and more of "Washed away all the weaker structures and supports of Kaineng."

I'd like you to re-read my comment, give it the amount of thought Teratus gave it.

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44 minutes ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

I'd like you to re-read my comment, give it the amount of thought Teratus gave it.

Here is another thing that is failed to understand/look at here. We can explicitly see Kaineng city in GW1 goes below the water level, as it's bordered by cliffs.

So the wave could've broken the cliffs/sea facing areas, and when it was halted, simply water rushing in through the gaps would fill the undercity areas and cause more damage, washing out lower supports and all. From what we can tell on the map, Drowned Kaineng is just the collasped ruined with the water level consistent throughout the city, which would fit if the coastal barriers were destroyed.

The major damage we see to Cantha is literally just the city, and that is what got hit by the wave. Assuming Soo-won came in and stopped the wave midway through the city (as it is literally stated), that may have protected Shing Jea from being hit hard. We know it received some washed up Risen though. Also, we can explicitly see the Tarnished coast got hit hard by the wave.

11 hours ago, Teratus.2859 said:

Rata Sum being a floating city probably could have survived any waves that would have hit it providing the city existed before the Rising of Orr (I'm not 100% that is the case though)

But the Grove in particular was in the front of it..

I can only think of 2 reasons the Grove survived.

1. It is based fairly high up on cliffs as we can see in game.. perhaps it did once have a natural barrier which is what protected it from the rising of Orr, the cliffs taking the brunt of the impact from tsunami's and then collapsing into the ocean afterwards.

2. Or, the Pale Tree protected the area somehow with magic..

My problem with the second explanation though is that we've never actually seen the Pale Tree do anything like that, she's never really expressed any ability to manipulate the physical world like for example Queen Jenna did when she put a barrier over Divinity's Reach.

We've only seen her show power's in the sense of visons and connecting to the dream.. not actual physical magic outside of the ability to grow things.. so it's entirely speculative that she is even capable of something like that.. so i'd have to go with the first explanation even though there's no specific lore to back it up.

I guess the only real way to prove that would be to go back to Gw1 and look around the same area to see what the original landmass was like and possibly find enough of it to justify that explanation.

Actually, compare the two locations. https://www.thatshaman.com/tools/guide/tyria/?v=5&x=-791.38&y=380.00&z=2 https://wiki.guildwars.com/images/5/5f/Tarnished_Coast_map_labelled.jpg

We can clearly see that Arbor bay (where the grove is) had a huge chunk that went from shallow wetlands to completely submerged, about a fourth of it.

Alcazia tangle however, went from mostly above sea-level to showing clear and explicit signs of heavy water, and Magus stones we can see feature a brand new, massive river system.

So while yes, there was some areas that weren't hit as hard, the Tarnished coast did have a chunk taken out of it.

 

 

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