Profession Balance: Next Steps and Preview of June 30 Balance Update

[Zyreva.1078]

12 hours ago, Josh Davis.7865 said:

Soulbeast's damage output previously relied on lining up a burst window while the skills “Sic ’Em!” and One Wolf Pack were active, paired with the damage from the off-hand axe skill Whirling Defense. Outside of this, soulbeasts have low sustained damage. This created a high skill floor for playing the specialization effectively, making it difficult to create strong baseline performance for players who did not execute on or were not aware of the mechanics to produce this damage window.

There was absolutely no need to change power soulbeast in order to create room for an easier build. Because soulbeast always had an easy alternative in form of a condi/shortbow build (which also fits the "pew pew with a bow" fantasy that many associante with ranger much better) Something that got hit too with the stance changes btw. And power is still going to be harder and in some encounters impractical due to melee skills with animation locks and now also higher reliance on flanking. Generally it makes sense for power and condi to fill different roles (burst vs sustained dmg) in oder to keep both viable. Trying to make both essentially the same usually results in one being simply better than the other everywhere.

So what exactly have you achieved with your changes? Open world bear bow deals a little bit more dmg, and those type of players likely won't even notice it and will still struggle with any remotely challenging content. That's pretty much all. Is that really worth killing off playstyles that some players enjoyed – and that weren't really a balance issue compared to some of the really op stuff that didn't get adressed at all  – and reducing overall balance and diversity, not just for ranger, but pretty much across the board? Don't break what's not broken!

And this doesn't just apply to ranger. Correct me if i'm wrong, but as far as i'm aware, most if not all classes already had relatively easy to learn and play builds/rotations that performed well enough for pretty much any content. And there has been an increasing focus from player's sides (guides etc) on those lately, so why out of a sudden are the harder to play builds an issue now, when alternatives where already there?

If you want to make the game more accessible without dumbing it down ...

maybe a single skill or trait shouldn't do a billion things at once, so it becomes easier to figure out what pressing a button exactly does?

Maybe playes shouldn't have to spam their entire skill bar on cd to deal dmg or keep boons up, which not only can cause quite some mechanical stress, but also reduces flexibility – important to deal with encounter mechanics - and forgiveness in a rotation (and build!) and instead focus more on tactical and reactional skill use instead? Ironically this is a problem for all of the new quickness/alac builds in particular. If you really want to make the combat more accessible – that is not the way to go.

Maybe less passive procs that cause all sorts of things to pop up on a player's screen without the player understanding, where all that random stuff comes from, what it does and what is relevant and what not? Aside from this there is simply nothing fun about passive procs – actually feeling the results of your actions as player is much more satisfying than just watching stuff happen.

Just a few ideas ...

Also what about PvP and WvW? Those game modes have been in dire need of some hotfixes for months and years, yet again ... nothing?

Edited July 1, 2022 by UmbraNoctis.1907

[greedywholesome.9081]

7 hours ago, Paradoxoglanis.1904 said:

Just give up hope. They think weaver is in a great spot and cata is still op.

 

Look on the bright side, weaver now gets to share barrier 😕

[Avatara.1042]

A good start, but you still need to create a proper balance team.

[SoulBlaze.3059]

Good thing we have gotten a million PvE changes, and PvP is a wildfire. Revenant is beyond worthless in PvP these days and generally ignored by the dev team as they have no idea what direction to take it. It gets worse and worse with every patch that is released, and is generally a joke to try to PvP with it now. Can we please get a PvP balance patch finally, one that is actually tested by the devs? Lets be real we all know they only play guardian when they PvP which tests nothing since you can do anything as a guardian and win.

[Tseison.4659]

12 hours ago, Josh Davis.7865 said:

August 2

As we mentioned earlier this week, we’ve added a follow-up balance update to our schedule on August 2. For that release, we'll be looking at addressing warrior banners and chronomancer’s relatively low damage output through chronomancer-specific traits and increasing the damage on core weapons (like the treatment ranger is getting today). Once we’ve released today’s hotfix we’ll move onto planning the details of this update.

 

Increase damage for what? MAKE.WELLS.GO OFF. at the Mesmer location! Why are we waiting till August just for some damage coefficient increases? Can you guys actually go through each skill and trait and stop trying to snowball damage numbers and call it “a profession update.” 🙄

[Muscae Volitantes.6523]

@Josh Davis.7865 Maybe instead of outright nerfing power mechanist, because dps-wise it was alright in that it was on the level of condi virt, condi mech and the likes, maybe shift the dps from the Jade Mech auto attacks to its active skills or to the Engineer even. Also, since you are taking a look at Aim-Assisted Rocket, instead of activating on Jade Mech crits, maybe tie it instead on skill activations then adjust the numbers from there? That would promote more active gameplay rather than passively letting the Jade Mech do its thing.

While we're at it, maybe take a look at Tools traitline as there's some potentially interesting alternative playstyle in there, especially for Mechanist. It just couldn't compete with Firearms at the moment, numbers-wise. It also fits with Mechanist, thematically IMO.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Muscae Volitantes.6523

[JPUlisses.8756]

12 hours ago, Nightrise.8937 said:

will tempest get some dps buffs anytime soon :)??? also maybe staff buffs please?? ❤️

Did you mean Weaver?

[JPUlisses.8756]

12 hours ago, Josh Davis.7865 said:

 

I like this update and the direction going forward. Maybe more weaver uniqueness in groups and check other uniqueness for other unperforming classes, for all game modes. I say weaver because it does nothing unique and no quickness/alacrity like their elemental counter parts.

[misterman.1530]

Lol. So, you wrote that "soulbeasts have low sustained damage" and then continued with:

Quote

 

This created a high skill floor for playing the specialization effectively, making it difficult to create strong baseline performance for players who did not execute on or were not aware of the mechanics to produce this damage window.

In the June 28 patch, One Wolf Pack was changed to have a lower but more consistent impact on damage output. As a result, soulbeast power damage builds have significantly dropped in performance.

 

However, these changes only effect PVE - even though your statistics showed that SBs "..power damage builds have significantly dropped in performance", which would imply in all game modes. Is the implication that people who primarily/exclusively play PVE are of lower skill than those who play in PVP or WVW? Or is it that you wanted to reduce SB's damage output in PVP/WVW entirely.

[FunKCX.4197]

12 hours ago, Josh Davis.7865 said:

 

August 2

As we mentioned earlier this week, we’ve added a follow-up balance update to our schedule on August 2. For that release, we'll be looking at addressing warrior banners and chronomancer’s relatively low damage output through chronomancer-specific traits and increasing the damage on core weapons (like the treatment ranger is getting today). Once we’ve released today’s hotfix we’ll move onto planning the details of this update.

 

As much as I appreciate the quick hotfix, it does not take away the fact, in hindsight, that many these changes over time, made by your balance team, should have never been released or been made in the first place, given where we are now. 

Boosting up the damage, STILL won't make classes like Chronomancers more fun to play. I'd like to repeat myself by stating that, many chrono mechanics have been stripped away from that class, that made it not fun to play anymore.

A friend of mine said: 

"They took a shadowstep backwards

and are now walking forwards with cripple"

Keep up with the positive momentum and make sure to not accidentally shadowstep back. Please. And thank you.

Edited July 1, 2022 by FunKCX.4197
Spacing

[Zyreva.1078]

5 minutes ago, misterman.1530 said:

Lol. So, you wrote that "soulbeasts have low sustained damage" and then continued with:

However, these changes only effect PVE - even though your statistics showed that SBs "..power damage builds have significantly dropped in performance", which would imply in all game modes. Is the implication that people who primarily/exclusively play PVE are of lower skill than those who play in PVP or WVW? Or is it that you wanted to reduce SB's damage output in PVP/WVW entirely.

There have been no relevant changes to soulbeast in sPvP and WvW, so it is pretty clear, all of this is only referring to PvE.

[misterman.1530]

18 minutes ago, UmbraNoctis.1907 said:

There have been no relevant changes to soulbeast in sPvP and WvW, so it is pretty clear, all of this is only referring to PvE.

Um. Yeah. I read the same thing you did. But they wrote "power damage builds have significantly dropped in performance" - that implies all game modes, no? If it was only a drop in performance in PVE, they should have clearly specified it.

Edited July 1, 2022 by misterman.1530
fixed last sentence

[Einsof.1457]

I still wonder how such a terrible update got out the door to begin with. 

[Zok.4956]

14 minutes ago, misterman.1530 said:

But they wrote "power damage builds have significantly dropped in performance" - that implies all game modes, no?

Of course. Because PvE equals "all game modes" for the balancing team. 😉

[Kozumi.5816]

12 hours ago, Saharo Gravewind.5120 said:

Anet, why shift the game away to punish players for improving their skills? People are free to play lower skill classes that can still deliver DPS. Why punish those who practice, improve, and master their class?

They want to make this game FF14 without catgirls or cute outfits is why.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Kozumi.5816

[Kozumi.5816]

12 hours ago, Kerose.2916 said:

Is there consideration for looking into Holosmith? It is currently overshadowed by Mech, while being forced into melee range and managing heat. It's in a similar space to Chronomancer's low damage which is confirmed for changes. I know the engi community would love this

Weaver vs Catalyst has the same issue.

[Kozumi.5816]

12 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Catalyst?  Weaver?  We're at almost 0% class representation.  What year do you suppose you'll do something about that?

This is the intended vision.

[ThunderX.6591]

Talking about the changes to class i play.

Mecha didn't need the "big" nerf.... because all the "rage" was mostly from the simplicity to get nice dps from the class, nothing else. (less rotation with equal or better dps than average)

Mecha wasn't even TOP dps, but was more in the middle high (or middle, didn't check the last minutes test), but here we are, with a big nerf to it that was done only because someone see big sparkle and high sound and think the class is TOP dps when the reality was a bit different. (simple to play yes, top dps not at all)

Remember, we get a condi nerf to it too, and literally noone talked about it.

The same appened to condi FB, with banner and spirit lost,and the nerf to burning damage from trait (-5%), but the majority only see the support build...... (i play condi, and yeah, the nerf was done, and  the class was hit by it)

 

On the Soulbeast elite, the major role the skill had was the party bonus given, more than the personal extra damage, and even if i like the weapons upgrade damage, i don't see a return in party that used the soul elite as extra bonus damage. (previous the patch, we had 48 hit personal in 12 secs and 16 hit in 4 secs (50% time) to party, now we have (maybee) 8 hit personal in less than 8 second and 3hit in 3 secs to party.... 3 extra hit to the party.... I see no use to elite soulbeast now in a party)

 

To sum it up, a simple class playable was nerfed, FB was nerfed (the condi part) and no talk about it like nothing happened, and from what i read in the hundreds of posts done, bladesworn is the TOP POWER DPS now (a warrior elite) against a test Golem who get hit without moving.

 

[Kozumi.5816]

11 hours ago, Jillian.4502 said:

There has been many suggestions from the Tempest players to make this trait more viable. INCREASING THE BASE DURATION OF ALAC BY 1 SECOND was not one of them. Does anyone even read the forums anymore?

Devs have gone on record sating no, they don't read the forums because it's too toxic.

[Einsof.1457]

11 minutes ago, Kozumi.5816 said:

They want to make this game FF14 without catgirls or cute outfits is why.

So kitten true. I left FFXIV because of the lack of reward for improving and the boring homgenized combat. Sucks to see gw2 trying to do the same. 

Edited July 1, 2022 by Einsof.1457

[Dollbaby.3560]

Love the changes! More power for my Ranger (soulbeast). Don't care for the reduced power for the engineer (mechanist) but I will try it out and see if it affects my play.

[Rising Blade.9206]

Quote

Staying in one attunement doesn’t match with the gameplay of the elementalist profession

not so quite sure about this one. if this is the line of thinking on how you're going to approach elementalist, this sounds like it's going against your current philosophy for balance if the previous patch is anything to go by, also elementalist is supposed to be a reactive class, moreso than engie, weaver should be the elementalist spec meant for focusing on frequent attunement swapping and it feels like you're creeping that line of thinking to tempest with the new trait, which is a spec that reinforces that reactive gameplay

the mech nerf i can go by as long as i see less and less mechanists out in the field, but can you please take a look again on the new rifle animations? rifle 1 and 5s animation is way too fast for rifle that feels like it should be thematically slow paced. Rifle 1 would feel better if it's something like an autoattack chain instead of 3 shots in a single second and jump shot just gives the engie a lot more mobility when it already has a  lot of mobility options (rocket boots, multiple sources of superspeed, and shift signet)

I'm still not convinced on the direction of where you're going. if you're prancing about class diversity, what you're doing is just pushing already irrelevant classes and playstyles deeper down the well while your favorites still reigns as the golden child of the game. 10-man targeting would enable better compositions instead of reinforcing the cookie cutter quick/alac/heal trinity which just isn't interesting

 

Edited July 1, 2022 by Rising Blade.9206
additions

[Khenzy.9348]

Any plans on reducing projectile block uptime from Ventari Revenant's Protective Solace in WvW? They are providing 100% uptime on projectile blocks effortlessly during combat currently, making projectile based weapons irrelevant during group fights (even more than before).

 

They also have permanent alacrity with the current Tempest support builds making the so called "boon balls" nigh unkillable. Any plans to ever adress this in WvW or am I talking into the void here?

 

Projectile block/reflect uptimes need a massive nerf in WvW as a whole.

Edited July 1, 2022 by Khenzy.9348

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

11 hours ago, Einsof.1457 said:

So kitten true. I left FFXIV because of the lack of reward for improving and the boring homgenized combat. Sucks to see gw2 trying to do the same. 

Well it will better that the current format , where the devs have to gut a spec (Old Mesmer that gave all boons while tanking for raiding  ) in order to make space for new . Atleast now Mesmsers , they can offer all boons again , but not so eassy

At higher lvl , people always choose the "best options" , if a class has unique modifires /quickness/alacrityor not

 

Edit: now focus on buffing slow weapons :

Rev hammer , has an alternate form (F2) like Jayce from LoL and diactivates the swap mechanic for 10sec.

Eles stuff , can be broken 2 pieces(F0) that release a boost of energy and your spell in all atuments are replaced for generic-high-octaine spells (for 5 sec-same in alla attument) , that slighty benefit from each attument (auto attack have a chance to bleed in earth)

Edited July 1, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[SoulBlaze.3059]

18 minutes ago, Khenzy.9348 said:

Any plans on reducing projectile block uptime from Ventari Revenant's Protective Solace in WvW? They are providing 100% uptime on projectile blocks effortlessly during combat currently, making projectile based weapons irrelevant during group fights (even more than before).

 

They also have permanent alacrity with the current Tempest support builds making the so called "boon balls" nigh unkillable. Any plans to ever adress this in WvW or am I talking into the void here?

 

Projectile block/reflect uptimes need a massive nerf in WvW as a whole.

lol the cooldown on this has already been nerfed to hell in the recent patch, plus their healing in general is worse than ever. Its good to know they have something useful in WvW, because in PvP they are regarded as wasted space right now after recent changes.