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A Mace Rework!


oscuro.9720

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Mace is not so good. It’s a tricky weapon, because the CC role is fitting, but it’s outdated and severely lacks damage after the CC damage nerf. This rework will focus on making mace a true condition+CC main hand weapon.

 

Auto Attack:

Add 1 stack of bleed to the first two strikes of the auto chain. Add torment to the final strike. Decrease each attacks cast time by 1/4 second. 
 

Skill 2:

Counterblow

Continues to have the same effect. The counter attack now applies 5 bleed on strike. 

Adrenaline Rush: 

Becomes Crushing Descent; Leap at your foe, delivering a strike so vicious, it torments all enemies in the surrounding area. 
Leap range: 450

Radius: 240

Torment: 4


Skill 3: 

Pommel Bash:

If this skill interrupts an enemy, it now applies confusion (5 stacks)


Skill 4: 

Crushing Blow:

Damage is reduced by 50%
Vulnerability is replaced with Bleed (5) and Torment (4)

Same effect applies, doubling the count of conditions applied if a disabled foe is struck. 

Skill 5:

Tremor:

No longer a projectile. Applies weakness to foes struck. 


Burst Skill: 

Now applies conditions based on adrenaline level. If a foes is interrupted, number of conditions applied is doubled. 
Adrenaline level 1: 2 torment, 2 confusion

Adrenaline level 2: 3 torment, 3 confusion

Adrenaline level 3: 4 torment, 4 confusion


The objective is to make mace/mace a pure condition set basically. I didn’t spend a lot of time on this, so there’s probably some major holes. Let me know what you all think

🙂

 

Edit: Optionally, this could be accompanied by a small rework of Sundering Maces;


Sundering Maces; CC applied by mace now inflicts torment (2). Mace skills have reduced recharge. 
 

This would help add some small torment stacking, which supervises really well with a hard CC lockdown play style after it’s rework. 

Edited by oscuro.9720
Decrease, not increase.
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2 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Mace is not so good. It’s a tricky weapon, because the CC role is fitting, but it’s outdated and severely lacks damage after the CC damage nerf. This rework will focus on making mace a true condition+CC main hand weapon.

 

Auto Attack:

Add 1 stack of bleed to the first two strikes of the auto chain. Add torment to the final strike. Increase each attacks cast time by 1/4 second. 
 

Skill 2:

Counterblow

Continues to have the same effect. The counter attack now applies 5 bleed on strike. 

Adrenaline Rush: 

Becomes Crushing Descent; Leap at your foe, delivering a strike so vicious, it torments all enemies in the surrounding area. 
Leap range: 450

Radius: 240

Torment: 3


Skill 3: 

Pommel Bash:

If this skill interrupts an enemy, it now applies confusion (5 stacks)


Skill 4: 

Crushing Blow:

Damage is reduced by 50%
Vulnerability is replaced with Bleed (5) and Torment (4)

Same effect applies, doubling the count of conditions applied if a disabled foe is struck. 

Skill 5:

Tremor:

No longer a projectile. Applies weakness to foes struck. 


Burst Skill: 

Now applies conditions based on adrenaline level. If a foes is interrupted, number of conditions applied is doubled. 
Adrenaline level 1: 3 torment, 3 confusion

Adrenaline level 2: 4 torment, 4 confusion

Adrenaline level 3: 5 torment, 5 confusion


The objective is to make mace/mace a pure condition set basically. I didn’t spend a lot of time on this, so there’s probably some major holes. Let me know what you all think 🙂

Some neat ideas here, Oscuro!

 

Did you mean that the AA chain attacks should *decrease* their cast time by 1/4s? Because increasing by 1/4s would make them 3/4, 3/4, and 1s... And that would be nearly unusable. It already has a slower AA chain than hammer (cause that makes sense...).

 

If I have a chance, I'll write some more ideas later. 

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1 minute ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Some neat ideas here, Oscuro!

 

Did you mean that the AA chain attacks should *decrease* their cast time by 1/4s? Because increasing by 1/4s would make them 3/4, 3/4, and 1s... And that would be nearly unusable. It already has a slower AA chain than hammer (cause that makes sense...).

 

If I have a chance, I'll write some more ideas later. 

Fixed. Definitely meant decrease. 2.5s for an AA chain would be painful. 

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Imo, I don't rly like the reduced recharge on weapon skills. Just balance the skills on their own and do something like:

Sundering Mace: your CCs last longer (15%). Interrupting foes with mace skills applies confusion. 

And then simply rework the mace to have some cover condis like, 1 sec immob on tremor before it lands as a cone, torment and vuln on Crushing Blow (I think the might gain should stay as it benefits all warrior builds), maybe some slow on counterblow to all for the counterblow to hit. 

The rest I agree with. I'd like to tinker with condi builds when my Ping doesnt let me play wvw and Im stuck in Open World PvE. 

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It's warrior, and I have a hard time meshing Bleeds and warrior maces in my mind, which is my only sticking point personally.

Could just make the AA chain confusion at short durations, and Counter Blow could be torment on strike instead of bleed.. Then it would be confusion+torment along with weakness. Arms or the current body blow would bring bleed into the picture already.

Thinking more as I type I like confusion+torment on a CC set like mace. For PvE it becomes a utilitarian condi+CC set that would do well as an alternative to LB or sword+torch and in PvP/WvW you get to play chess with your opponent. They get CC'd, which lets torment deal more damage, and if they don't break stun quickly they'll have lots of confusion on them to make it a no win situation. It creates a situation where you can entrap an opponent by forcing them to make the choice of which bad damage tick to take which would be fun and rewarding gameplay for maces.

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i agree, flavor wise, confusion makes more sense for warrior blunt weapons, also they did push confusion on warrior blunt weapons years ago, but for some reason, it was discontinued, it got scrapped. which was sad because they were moving in the right direction.

 

anyway, i see no point anymore, its nice to see many people coming up with new ideas, but its been done over the years, they can't even fix existing problems, problems which they created.

 

and besides none of it is really being considered anyway.

 

@Lan Deathrider.5910 haven't seen you in a while. good to see you alive and well.

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3 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

It's warrior, and I have a hard time meshing Bleeds and warrior maces in my mind, which is my only sticking point personally.

Could just make the AA chain confusion at short durations, and Counter Blow could be torment on strike instead of bleed.. Then it would be confusion+torment along with weakness. Arms or the current body blow would bring bleed into the picture already.

Thinking more as I type I like confusion+torment on a CC set like mace. For PvE it becomes a utilitarian condi+CC set that would do well as an alternative to LB or sword+torch and in PvP/WvW you get to play chess with your opponent. They get CC'd, which lets torment deal more damage, and if they don't break stun quickly they'll have lots of confusion on them to make it a no win situation. It creates a situation where you can entrap an opponent by forcing them to make the choice of which bad damage tick to take which would be fun and rewarding gameplay for maces.

Torment over bleed is probably more sensible, but I wanted a healthy diversity of damaging conditions. I also wrote this in 5 minutes, so it’s far from perfect 😅

 

I agree, the combination of torment and confusion on a hard CC focused build is very interesting, because it balances between increased torment damage while they are CCd at the cost of confusion damage, and confusion damage once they get away to recover at the cost of torment damage. I really made this rework because I liked the synergy of the two conditions, as I thought it would be a much more active/dynamic kind of condition build compared to a lot of what’s in the game 🙂 

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2 hours ago, eXruina.4956 said:

i agree, flavor wise, confusion makes more sense for warrior blunt weapons, also they did push confusion on warrior blunt weapons years ago, but for some reason, it was discontinued, it got scrapped. which was sad because they were moving in the right direction.

 

anyway, i see no point anymore, its nice to see many people coming up with new ideas, but its been done over the years, they can't even fix existing problems, problems which they created.

 

and besides none of it is really being considered anyway.

 

@Lan Deathrider.5910 haven't seen you in a while. good to see you alive and well.

I’m a positive person generally, and will continue to contribute ideas and try to be optimistic, because maybe it will be considered, ya never know 🙂 

 

Also it’s fun for me to come with ideas, so I don’t mind. There’s lots of people smarter than me in the warrior forum to critique them, which in turn makes better ideas!

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Have to agree that bleeds on a blunt weapon feel a bit weird. Mind you, so does a condition that deals more damage for standing still, but there's the problem for switching the effect of Torment in the first place. Either way, diversity of damaging conditions can come from having a second weapon set.

It's... possibly worth considering that mace is still reasonably commonly used as the CC for power builds in PvE, so it's possible that the better approach would be to simply buff up mace's coefficients in PvP, and taking this approach with hammer instead.

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55 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Have to agree that bleeds on a blunt weapon feel a bit weird. Mind you, so does a condition that deals more damage for standing still, but there's the problem for switching the effect of Torment in the first place. Either way, diversity of damaging conditions can come from having a second weapon set.

It's... possibly worth considering that mace is still reasonably commonly used as the CC for power builds in PvE, so it's possible that the better approach would be to simply buff up mace's coefficients in PvP, and taking this approach with hammer instead.

The problem I see with buffing mace coefficients is that that method won’t ever make mace viable in my view. Conditions allow it to continue to deal damage while also functioning as a lockdown set. And, let’s face it, warrior’s current condi options are not good. 
Also there’s no proposed changes to the CC output of the weapon kit, basically just adding condis and reworking the 2 skill (a non-CC already) 🙂 


As for condition diversity, that’s a very valid point. I was probably trying to shove too much into one kit. Restricting to torment and confusion is probably better. 
Question; How would you replace the bleed. Obviously in the AA, it can just be swapped with torment 1 for 1, but on something like Counterblow or Crushing Strike, what would you personally do? I’ve thought of it and don’t have any answers that I really like. I agree changing it is probably thematically more sensible though. 

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1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Have to agree that bleeds on a blunt weapon feel a bit weird. Mind you, so does a condition that deals more damage for standing still, but there's the problem for switching the effect of Torment in the first place. Either way, diversity of damaging conditions can come from having a second weapon set.

It's... possibly worth considering that mace is still reasonably commonly used as the CC for power builds in PvE, so it's possible that the better approach would be to simply buff up mace's coefficients in PvP, and taking this approach with hammer instead.

Mace's power dmg is trash in all modes, pve included. It is taken only for CC. You could easily convert mace to a condi/hybrid weapon like sword with the same power dmg that it currently does (sword does power dmg, too, right?). As long as it still does the same break bar damage, it won't lose its place in PvE. 

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I have had this thought that only warrior should be able to capitalize off of one debilitating condi and let it tick damage, since torment is not very characteristic of warrior and poison does not exist in our kit. 

So the idea was to put more cripple in weapons (I also addressed this somewhat in Wounding Precision with the reworked arms, in adding cripple to bursts) and have cripple, via trait, tick some form of damage on enemies, like fear can tick damage on necromancers. 

This could make for a very useful and more important condition. 

Something like, adding confusion in maces baseline and then removing Cull the Weak. Sundering Mace also merges with Body Blow and Body Blow becomes a strike damage on CC trait to compensate for the loss of Cull the Weak. 

Sundering Mace: 

     - Crowd Controlling foes with a Mace inflicts weakness for 5 seconds (5 seconds interval) and successfully interrupting them inflicts Bleeding (1 stack for 5 seconds, no interval). 

New trait to replace Cull the Weak

 

Incapacitation:

     - Cripple you apply lasts longer (33%) and now deals damage for each second present on the enemy (0.110 * Condition Damage) + 45 for Level 80 characters. 

Cripple cannot stack intensity and is gated by stacking in duration therefore I chose a relatively higher multiplier that other damaging conditions and some added coefficient, but it should not exceed ticking for 150-200 damage per second (and there are many skills, sigils and runes that simply remove cripple, so this addition isn't powercreep). 

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Condi on mace would be a dream for me. The very first weapon set I played when I started GW2 years back was a rabid sword/sword build. I thought it was awesome until I realized it wasn't, but I've still tried making it work in PvP. I know you're supposed to go longbow for the secondary weapon, but I go mace/shield for the CC and survivability. Unfortunately my condi stats don't help with core mace unlike with berserker's confusion mace bursts. 

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6 hours ago, LeoAP.8534 said:

Condi on mace would be a dream for me. The very first weapon set I played when I started GW2 years back was a rabid sword/sword build. I thought it was awesome until I realized it wasn't, but I've still tried making it work in PvP. I know you're supposed to go longbow for the secondary weapon, but I go mace/shield for the CC and survivability. Unfortunately my condi stats don't help with core mace unlike with berserker's confusion mace bursts. 

my first set was pvt from honor the waves, farmed em bears real good. 🔪 🐻

 

until it was brought to my attention that i should be in zerkers 🥺😓 so farmed cof like mad 🐯💢🔥

 

then wore the kitten out of that cof armor til i finished crafting my first ascended set

 

and wore the kitten out of that ascended set for everything else. 😎

 

ah good times 🙂

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