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Mechanist is the worst specialization design in game. Here is why


kakumbien.8047

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Generally from SPVP point of view, these are my concerns. Feel free to share your thoughts please.

 

AI and bounding

  1. AI of pets and minions in the game still needs lots of development and mechanist gets an unchangeable single pet. ( Yeah you can modify some skills via traits and you need to sacrifice a trait for the skill. Bounded 9 traits and skills.)

Lost skills: 

  1. Entire toolbelt skills (24 skills)
    • It contains healing skill of a healing kit, stun breakers, many projectiles and elixirs etc.
  2. Chance of carrying a different elite other than signet.
    • Killed mech means you are useless now and it happens quite a lot in team fights.
  3. Skills that are only useful when they have tollbelt skills.

 

Lost traits:

  1. If mech dies you lose entire mechanist trait line (12 traits). I find that ridicilous.
  2. Optimized Activation (Tools minor 1,  unavoidable trait) 
  3. Static Discharge (Tools adept 1)
  4. Mechanized Deployment (Tools minor 2 , unavoidable trait)
  5. Kinetic Battery (Tools grandmaster 1)
  6. Soothing detonation ( Inventions master 2)

 

Lost build crafting possibilities, diversity of specialization dynamics and fun of playing a " jack of all trades " class.

 

Mechanist is doing fine right now because of the exaggerated numbers, skills and traits functions. Aside from that, it does not bring aything to table and you are not flexible. All of my concerns might seems like related to toolbelts. But cutting more than half of skills, one and half of traitlines and  many possibilities of combinations shows that desinging team was amazed with big robot idea more than it is functionality. 

 

So, what do you think ? This is my first time in 10 years in the game questioning the existence idea of a specialization.

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The Mecha is the easy to play, simple rotation class who give a decent dps (well, after the last hot fix nerf, dps isn't decent anymore, but that is what we have now).

That is the basic idea of the mecha as the core of the class, because (my personal idea of the lore) Cantha = high level tecnology robot who do things instead of the people for a better and "easy" life.

So, the mecha robot is totally normal that would be a big part of our trait line and dps/support part of the class.

Unfortunatelly, i see many who think easy class rotation with decent dps aren't "rewarding" (of what i don't know), so they cry about the "OP" of the class that OP wasn't at all in the end (wasn't the top dps one), instead of seeing the BIG nerf of around 3k-4k+ dps caused by the rework of banner, spirit and the lost of spot like skills that the 28/06 patch did literally to all classes (some of them get even more dps loss from all of that considering some extra nerf in the middle of it all) without giving some extra dps to compensate the big dps loss we all get (we passed from 40k+ to hard to reach 35k+ and many classes are under that now).

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Mechanist as a support is considered quite busted and I think this is also a result of one of the points you mentioned: the loss of all toolbelt skills.

As you say, the toolbelt holds MANY important functionalities for engineer. Stun breaks, condi cleanses, access to important boons like stability, healing for the med kit, etc.

Now look at the skill crisis zone. It is actually insane what this skill does. Stun break (AoE even), condi cleanse (AoE), access to many powerful boons (stability, protection, aegis, alacrity). It is partially making up for the loss of the toolbelt skill functionalities. It didn't even use to be a stun break in the first iteration, they added the stun break because of player feedback who were saying that it hurts mechanist alot to lose access to the toolbelt stun breaks.

Same with the growing complaints of the mech dealing too much damage. It HAS to deal alot of damage, since we are giving up access to alot of hard hitting skills with our toolbelt!

Mechanist has to make up for alot of stuff, hence why it feels so loaded for many people. Because if the elite spec doesn't compensate for all this stuff lost... why would you play it?

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I fully agree, a lot of engineer is balanced around the existence of toolbelt skills. In many cases the toolbelts are even more desirable than the utility itself. Thinking without toolbelt means not playing engineer.

 

I think the great success of mechanist is super misleading regarding how well received the class is. Engineer always had two great support traitlines with Inventions and Alchemy that already had good synergy with each other. Regardless of the way you would have thrown high boon generation into a new engineer elite spec, it would have been very popular for high end PvE content.

Not saying that none likes it (personally I hate it) but I think in many cases people like it for how powerful it is, not how it plays.

 

Engineer unfortunately had a history of now 3 e specs that have essentially 0 synergy with the rest of its kit and mechanist even strongly puts that into a negative. Anet can call it "trade-off" as much as they want, the mech has nothing to do with the rest of engineer and it completely deletes the core identity of engineer that you can still find in the other engi specs in itself.

Edited by Endaris.1452
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Anet kind of shot themselve in the foot for the WvW/SPvP part with Mechanist.

 

Pet based class can be fun however for PvP people will never agree with a pet AI able to kill them. It is ok for Necro and Ranger because the pet aspect can either be completely ignored (Necro) or doesnt force you to pick a trait and is just there as a side skill (Ranger).

 

BUT if you make a spec based on a pet, AND that spec removes what makes your class the class, then it has to be worth taking. As you mentioned, the trait only works on mech and mech alone so loosing it means loosing an entire trait tree but it also means you become worse than core engineer since you completely lose access to your toolbelt skill. In a way Virtuoso is kind of similar to Mechanist as it removes one of the core aspec of Mesmer which is the clone with the exception that they reworked the shatter system and they always have access to their shatter although in a different form. 

 

For WvW objectively speaking there is no reason to pick Mechanist. Some people will argue "hurr but muh berserk mechanist spam rifle AA can kill people fast" but I can do that with Deadeye rifle with even less restrain : I dont rely on a pet, I have a lot of mobility and access to short stealth. Or I could play Soulbeast with the smoke pet, stealth my way and seek em + longbow.

 

For SPvP apparently it is good at holding nodes. I no longer play SPvP so I will not comment on that.

 

Which leave PvE where it is currently strong. Of course, it has to be strong since that spec was design for PvE in mind.

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Since I've never liked toolbelt and rarely used kits outside of flamethrower, I'm more than happy to trade all of it for mechanist. 

And I like the feel of tinkering with my mech in build crafting due to cohesion between some of the mech traits and engineer core traits. 

My main necromancer would be happy to trade the whole shroud thing for powerful minion and associated traits of mechanist's quality level. 

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2 hours ago, Rhingeim.3974 said:

Since I've never liked toolbelt and rarely used kits outside of flamethrower, I'm more than happy to trade all of it for mechanist. 

And I like the feel of tinkering with my mech in build crafting due to cohesion between some of the mech traits and engineer core traits. 

My main necromancer would be happy to trade the whole shroud thing for powerful minion and associated traits of mechanist's quality level. 

The actual problem with that is that the mech and it's associated mech commands will have to hold ALOT of power to be viable, which is the reason why the spec is seen as loaded and overpowered by so many people.

The loss of the toolbelt has been the biggest trade off Anet has ever installed in any elite spec. With this, we are giving up access to 27 different skills (4 healing toolbelt skills, 20 utility toolbelt skills, 3 elite toolbelt skills). And as mentioned, these toolbelt skills tend to hold alot of important mechanics:

  • AoE boons
  • healing
  • condi cleanses
  • stun breaks
  • high damage skills (ex. grenade barrage)
  • CC

As I already mentioned, crisis zone is oftenly mentioned as a ridiculous skill in what it offers (AoE stun break, AoE condi cleanse, 4 very powerful boons in AoE) and the reason why it has to provide so much stuff is because it has to make up for the loss of these functionalities because of the missing toolbelt skill!

The mech is also quite hard hitting for a pet. It has to be, because we are giving up a plethora of damage skills for it, which it has to compensate for.

Many engineer players, including me, have warned that this will be the case if Anet ever releases an elite spec which takes away our entire toolbelt. The new mechanic would need to be equally as complex as the toolbelt, so you can spread all the power we are giving up with the toolbelt over this new mechanic.

But mechanist's class mechanic isn't as complex. We give up 27 skills and gain 9 new ones with the mech commands. The complexity and combination potential went way down, which meant that more power needed to get loaded in this more compressed mechanic.

And this is what leads to mechanist being seen as busted...
Replacing necro shroud wouldn't even warrant a pet on mech level. With shroud, you are giving up access to 5 skills. With the loss of the toolbelt, we lost access to 27 different skills. A pet replacing the shroud would have to compensate for way less power lost, so it wouldn't be nearly as powerful as the mech.

Edited by Kodama.6453
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Well, I'm agreed about mentioned reasons why mech is strong. And I'm fine with it being strong, because otherwise I wouldn't touch engineer at all since juggling toolbelt and kits not my cup of tea. 

As for necromancer pet power because of tradoffs... Thing is, to have all pets necromancer already sacrifice 5 utility skills, since each pet = utility skill, with lack of direct control over behavior like attack/ignore. So I would be happy to trade another 5 shroud skills (which are also often used in various trait lines directly, like adding conditions to shroud 1 skill).  Yep, it's not 27/9 compression your mentioned. It's already 5/1.5 (shadow fiend + flesh golem) compression, with possible shroud tradeoff it will be 10/1.5, so here is the room for improvement 🙂

Sorry for bring my personal necromancer pain into engineers subforum, I'm just surprised that from classes who use pets/minions necromancer have weakest and useless ones 🙂

Edited by Rhingeim.3974
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