Harvest Temple NM Fails to Prepare Players for HT CM

[Malus.2184]

The difficulty of HT CM can be discussed endlessly. What is certain though is that Strike NM as a means to prepare players for Strikes CM is an objective failure when it comes to HT.

AH, XJJ, and KO uses the same mechanics just scaled up and made more difficult to handle. KO on the Mindblade he does the same AoE as both NM and CM and it has  the same mechanics on both NM and CM, the difference is the amount. The only place of the three that introduces something new is in XJJ p3, however it's clearly telegraphed what you have to do and there are ways around it.

HT CM introduces several mechanics just in the Jormag phase that never present in the NM. Lingering AoE that has to be stacked, green circles that have to be covered or you wipe. There's nothing of the sort in NM and such it does a really poor job of preparing players for the CM.

NM would serve the intended purpose of familiarizing the players with the content of there were les severe version of the same mechanics. If the AoE fields still ahd to be stacked and only went away on phase change. If there were a green circle or two in NM that just really hurt and had to be handled in the same way.

Right now, HT NM and HT CM are functionally two different fights as there are several mechanics in the CM that has no presence in the NM. In every other Strike the things in them in NM are present in the CM , just more difficult to handle. Several concepts makes no appearence in HT NM that suddenly pops in HT CM.

One thing I would suggest though is to change the placement of Jormag's skybeams and the positions of the greens in that phase as they go fully over the green and cover it while dealing enough damage to down you almost instantly. I know, health based, and there's already one soft enrage, no need for there to be two that makes the second more likely to trigger.

Edited July 2, 2022 by Malus.2184

[Kayberz.5346]

The other CMs add just as much if not more mechanics that aren't present/ relevant in the normal mode.  What your saying is just objectively false.

 

Aetherblade has the green circle mechanic that 9/10 people in your group need to uniquely cycle through unlike normal mode, it has the exposed debuff from the shockwaves and aoes that doesn't even exist in normal mode that significantly changes the fight compared to normal mode where you can completely ignore the shockwaves because they hardly hurt you, and the bomb phase is completely different from normal mode where you just stand in 1 of 2 spots to not die with no bombs to figure out.

 

 

 

Edited July 2, 2022 by Kayberz.5346

[Linken.6345]

27 minutes ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

The other CMs add just as much if not more mechanics that aren't present/ relevant in the normal mode.  What your saying is just objectively false.

 

Aetherblade has the green circle mechanic that 9/10 people in your group need to uniquely cycle through unlike normal mode, it has the exposed debuff from the shockwaves and aoes that doesn't even exist in normal mode that significantly changes the fight compared to normal mode where you can completely ignore the shockwaves because they hardly hurt you, and the bomb phase is completely different from normal mode where you just stand in 1 of 2 spots to not die with no bombs to figure out.

 

 

 

You do know that the green mechanic and shock waves both are in the normal mode right?

Just that you can all stack in the green in normal and you want to jump the shock waves in normal mode aswell.

The bomb phase is the only new mechanic from what I remember.

[Malus.2184]

33 minutes ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

The other CMs add just as much if not more mechanics that aren't present/ relevant in the normal mode.  What your saying is just objectively false.

 

Aetherblade has the green circle mechanic that 9/10 people in your group need to uniquely cycle through unlike normal mode, it has the exposed debuff from the shockwaves and aoes that doesn't even exist in normal mode that significantly changes the fight compared to normal mode where you can completely ignore the shockwaves because they hardly hurt you, and the bomb phase is completely different from normal mode where you just stand in 1 of 2 spots to not die with no bombs to figure out.

 

 

 

The green Circle in AH is functionally the same on both NM and CM. The difference is that it adds restrictions to how the circle is handled in CM and punishes you severely if you handle those badly. The green circle exists in both NM and CM. The sky bream exists in both NM and CM, it lingers alittle longer in CM and thus you haveto handle it differently, however,  the concept is known when you transition from NM to CM.

If the AoE in HT lingered untill the end of the phase in NM and was the same size then it would serve as a way to get familiar with the concept where the AoE is larger.

3 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

You do know that the green mechanic and shock waves both are in the normal mode right?

Just that you can all stack in the green in normal and you want to jump the shock waves in normal mode aswell.

The bomb phase is the only new mechanic from what I remember.

There is no green mechanic in NM HT, if you think there is then that's the Mandela Effect. The shockwaves are in phase three. I was talking about phase one.

[Susy.7529]

Everything in this game fail to prepare for HT CM, even Dhuum CM.  

 

[Kayberz.5346]

26 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

You do know that the green mechanic and shock waves both are in the normal mode right?

Just that you can all stack in the green in normal and you want to jump the shock waves in normal mode aswell.

The bomb phase is the only new mechanic from what I remember.

They are "in" normal mode but they do not function AT ALL in the same way

 

They are 100% ignorable mechanics in normal mode that just amount to slight passive chip damage that gets instantly healed

 

By OPs argument they do not prepare you for CM because if you went into CM completely blind both of these mechanics would wipe your group every time and you wouldn't know why because normal mode doesn't teach you to do those mechanics at all

 

Point is, CM HTs added mechanic are pretty comparable to the other CMs added mechanics, none of the other normal modes really "fully" prepare you to do the CM, they all have completely new added mechanics you have to learn 

[Malus.2184]

3 minutes ago, Kayberz.5346 said:

They are "in" normal mode but they do not function AT ALL in the same way

 

 

Then that's even worse than being unprepared since if people get used to ignoring them they'll haveno way of knowing what to do when you can no longer ignore them.

I know people like to imagine that they can switch to new information on a dime. Reality works differently though. When you're habitually used to something thathabit will stick around for a long time.

[Malus.2184]

16 minutes ago, Susy.7529 said:

Everything in this game fail to prepare for HT CM, even Dhuum CM.  

 

ANet has acknowledged this. That was the reason they wanted to change gears with the EoD strikes NM and CM modes after inspiration from the Fractal Tier model.

[Gajex.2386]

They did say they delayed the release of HT CM by a month to make sure it's as difficult as possible.

Nobody talked about making it challenging, just difficult. And adding completely new mechanics just for the sake of difficulty seems about right, to be fair.

[mythical.6315]

Introducing new mechanics in higher difficulties is to be expected. This is what others games do. 

[Dean.3056]

I find the CM in good taste, I just find it hard seeing such a CM on a weekly cycle for most groups, it feels like a CM you do once and be done with it.

[samsar.9152]

Wish I could even get it through in normal mode. 

[Delita Silverburg.8632]

Honestly,

 

Havest Temple CM is a joke of a design.

Anet: "We made strikes to be a stepping stone to raids."
Also Anet: "We also made Strike CMs to be raid level content."
Also also Anet: "Oh but wait, here's this Strike CM content that is the hardest content we've ever released in the whole history of the game that also takes as long as an ENTIRE RAID WING of encounters." that, as of a week and a half after release, only 46 total players have cleared (0.012% of player base).

 

This is NOT going to get average players to have any desire of any kind to move into 10 person instanced content. In fact, it will more likely deter them further away. Period.

[mythical.6315]

22 hours ago, Delita Silverburg.8632 said:

Honestly,

 

Havest Temple CM is a joke of a design.

Anet: "We made strikes to be a stepping stone to raids."
Also Anet: "We also made Strike CMs to be raid level content."
Also also Anet: "Oh but wait, here's this Strike CM content that is the hardest content we've ever released in the whole history of the game that also takes as long as an ENTIRE RAID WING of encounters." that, as of a week and a half after release, only 46 total players have cleared (0.012% of player base).

 

This is NOT going to get average players to have any desire of any kind to move into 10 person instanced content. In fact, it will more likely deter them further away. Period.

Are average players going to care about CMs?

[samsar.9152]

21 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

Are average players going to care about CMs?

I think they don't because that infusion is super rare loot. 

[A Hamster.2580]

I agree, but I think HT CM should not be nerfed. Instead, HT normal should be harder. Right now, any "exp" group for HT normal in LFG can clear it in less than 3 pulls. I even joined a HT training group listed under the training session and one pulled it this week. It is still easier than almost all raid bosses in my opinion. Firebrands can hard carry with stability for the shockwaves and the giants, tome 3 skill 3 for the last orb phase.