Heal Scourge Boons

[Shaogin.2679]

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems Scourge is the only healer in the game now that cannot provide Alacrity or Quickness, or for that matter any sort of significant boon support. I really hope Anet addresses this, because Scourge was already the least desired support in experienced raid and strike groups since it offers no role compression.

[Nimon.7840]

Scourge has a big problem: it's Rezz ability.

In order to give scourge significant boons Anet would have to heavyly rework/change a lot of things, else if scourge in it's current form gained for example alac, might and protection, it would be extremely overpowered. Would it outperform mech and firebrand? Probably not, because they can give a lot more boons and especially aegis and stability are extremely powerful.

but I think it would invalidate any other healer.

 

You'd have to:

1. Remove a lot of the revive % traits (blood magic traitline). Or make them compete with boon traits. So you can either revive or give boons, but not both. 

2. Remove some of scourges hybridness: make dmg traits compete with boon/defensive traits. 

 

For example:

sand savant: now increases the radius, and also increases the defenses of shade abilities, but removes any dmg done by shades, increase target cap to 5, but only one shade can be active and  as long as a shade is active, the Necro doesn't count as a shadebut if none is active, the player does count as shade:

increases cleanses of f2 by 1, increases healing power modifier of f3, F4 cool down increases but now gives aegis and stability instead of fear, F5 shares it barrier with allies.

 

It's a lot of work to do, but can be done. And my suggestion has a lot of text for one trait so I don't think that this change would happen.

 

Right now, heal scourge is in a weird spot that it's extremely overpowered if a good player plays it in a bad group, but the better the group, the worse scourge gets.

You have to somehow manage, that it has 3 builds: 1. Dmg 2. Barrier boon support 3. Barrier Rezz support. But not all or even two of them at the same time like the current plague doctor scourge 

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

"Heal" scourge has more issues than just the boons / boon duration (in pve) ;
Healing modificators (not even the new one in blood magic) don't affect barrier, nor revival speed. But healing power doesn't affect revival speed either. So actually you're not better, not rewarded, to build with a lot of Healing Power (and concentration) or the differents runes and sigils about healing.
And Sand Savant + Abrasive grit are not really worth it compared to torch and baseline sand shade skills.

I play myself a mix of celestial and vipere for good amount of vitality and some healing power, dagger/warhorn in weapon swap for fast life-force recovery, cc...  BM + curses (or soul reaping for Boneskinner etc to be able to spam F4). DPS is quite okai + you keep the most important part : the revival and barriers for application timing.

Edited July 4, 2022 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[Shaogin.2679]

On 7/4/2022 at 7:45 AM, Nimon.7840 said:

Remove some of scourges hybridness: make dmg traits compete with boon/defensive traits. 

I feel like this is the route they should go. Druid has a similar issue, being the only support spec that can't also function as decent dps spec. I would love to see a row of traits that sacrifice damage for better support. 

Being a great rezzer is good and all, but in experienced groups that don't down a lot, Scourge isn't that useful. Not to mention, when players do go down, other classes have resurrection abilities as well. Scourge's niche just isn't all that amazing unless you are running with a group with multiple players consistently going down.

[Aeolus.3615]

Q: i assume heal scourge can provide better barrier in replacement of those boons? 

Well since stats are needed and that will help the barrier.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Shaogin.2679]

3 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

Q: i assume heal scourge can provide better barrier in replacement of those boons? 

Well since stats are needed and that will help the barrier.

Not really. Mechanist and Specter not only provide comparable if not greater barrier, they also have superior healing and boon application on top of that. Not to mention that Scourge also lacks much of the utility that other support specs bring. I just feel like with this latest expansion and balance patches, there is far less reason than ever to bring a support Scourge in an experienced group. 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Shaogin.2679

[Valisha.8650]

Or give it perma protection on shades. Its SOMETHING at least.

[Rhingeim.3974]

Wonder, are there any cases in the GW2 history, when ANet significantly update/redesign class instead of minor tweaks of number/adding/removing boons? 

[Shaogin.2679]

1 hour ago, Rhingeim.3974 said:

Wonder, are there any cases in the GW2 history, when ANet significantly update/redesign class instead of minor tweaks of number/adding/removing boons? 

Off the top of my head, yeah, Scrapper.

[Jijimuge.4675]

2 hours ago, Shaogin.2679 said:

Off the top of my head, yeah, Scrapper.

Also off the top of my head, the rework of mesmer phantasms to be bursty as opposed to persistent, not to mention the rework of chronomancer shatters (not a huge rework, obvs, but changed the functionality)

The rework of mantras (mesmer and firebrand) to be a lot more simple in design and to remove the "charge" mechanic - honestly not a fan of this one.

The rework to Herald traits etc. back in 2018

Also, arguably, the rework to the Ventari legend and the Salvation line a few weeks ago (perhaps debatable, but it certainly made the tablet a lot less spammy).  The removal of healing on moving the tablet is a big thing, but arguably just numerical.  The change to the traits and skills to remove healing orbs is definitely mechanical, however.

I'm sure there are more....

As a general rule, Anet will prefer to just tweak boons/numbers etc if they can as that's less work than changing things in a fundamental way, so they'll only revise functionality if they think they really have to, IMO

Edit : Forgot that Anet did rework the Death Magic traitline quite a bit at one time with the "carapace" stacks etc.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Jijimuge.4675

[Bunny.9834]

Scourge is fine. 

Doesn't need Alac. It's main contribution is the insane F4 Rez and 50000000 barrier. 

[Shaogin.2679]

On 7/19/2022 at 9:23 PM, Bunny.9834 said:

Scourge is fine. 

Doesn't need Alac. It's main contribution is the insane F4 Rez and 50000000 barrier. 

Not saying that Scourges necessarily need quickness or alacrity, but some boon support would be nice. Also, the "insane rez" is completely pointless in any semi-exp group that doesn't try to face tank every deadly mechanic. In any normal scenario if members go down at a reasonable rate, other support classes have their own skills and traits to revive them as well. As for the barrier, it has been nerfed several times and Scourges are no longer the barrier gods they once were, and they definitely do not have a monopoly as the barrier class either. You bring a Scourge for one reason and one reason only, and that is to rez a team of players that are completely new and have no idea what they are doing, and that doesn't even require you to be a full on heal Scourge. There is no reason at all (and definitely less effective) to bring a heal Scourge in any competent group.

[pcgamefreak.5208]

On 7/3/2022 at 7:25 PM, Shaogin.2679 said:

So, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems Scourge is the only healer in the game now that cannot provide Alacrity or Quickness, or for that matter any sort of significant boon support. I really hope Anet addresses this, because Scourge was already the least desired support in experienced raid and strike groups since it offers no role compression.

 

I noticed how Necro doesn't have Alacrity a long time ago, which would help because the class is slow.  GW2 is really a poor PvP developed game...the classes are all unbalanced.  The Necro is the worst...  Consider this, when going into Shroud as a core, the right side of your action tray is hidden.  That not only greatly weaken the class in PvP/WvW, but makes no sense what so ever because you're not outputting super damage while in Shroud and being able to use abilities on the right side of the action tray would have made being in Shroud a lot more meaningful in terms of staying alive, especially with no real Boons.  The Necro has no real stability other than the stability you get from Trail of Anguish running a Scourge, which can be stripped by other classes and thus defeats the purpose.  Scouge sucks because it has no sustain and going into Shroud doesn't do anything much.  I see players standing in Scourge Shroud Bursts all the time...doesn't even scratch them.  Core is about the best when it comes to WvW/PvP because Reaper's Shroud is too short.  Reaper Shroud short duration would work if damage did not drain it also.

 

Just poor decisions by the developers is why players are hacking like crazy now in WvW.  That increased Boon power hack looks cool as heck because as soon as a hacker get the Regeneration Boon, their health goes flying up to full and then turn into extra health (yellow health bar).  You can even look up how much Regeneration does online and you'll find out, the value on it is too small to cause that kind of full healing, even if you had it stacked.  It's hacks!  Glass build meta classes like Deadeye and Mesmers use it all the time.  Entire Zergs can't kill these players who use it.  I have a Deadeye and I have a Mesmer and know for fact, they don't output Boon power that high, no class does.

 

Poor development leads to players hacking, peroid!

 

Why allow high ranged DPS?  If anything was going to be "CC", it should have been ranged attacks but instead, the "Devs" turn Necro marks into poor "CC", which players can easily just roll through or send their pets through it.  That decision alone makes the staff practically useless.  The Necro class doesn't generate a ton of Boons like other class and it's a slow class, not just in foot speed but in ability cast time as well.  What's the point in going Condi with a Necro if other classes can just cleanse the conditions with ease?  By concept, the Necro should have been the one class who's conditions can't be cleasned, which would really put the "Necro" in Necromancer but the "Devs" aren't creative nor smart like that.

 

I don't care who gets mad, GW2 has brain dead, uncreative development and I don't see myself continuing with the game because WvW/PvP is not fun due to the poor class balance but the Hackers just put the cherry on top for worst PvP game ever made.  There's no point in playing a mmorpg  that's so messed up in so many ways.  It's a double time waster that only someone with no life at all would care about continuing.

 

If you continue with the game and PvP/WvW then I suggest you get what ever hack setup so many are using because it gets old always watching enemy players absorb all your damage while dealing God damage.  It has nothing to do with skill because GW2 is a click action based MMO like World of Warcraft and a lot of others.  It has nothing to do with gear because legendary gear is only slightly better than ascension gear.  So if these players  aren't wearing some new kind of God gear, then how are they absorbing all damage and striking for one hit kills?

 

That's the sickess part about it.... These players want to play on your intelligence by having you believe they're just that good but only an idiot wouldn't understand, you can't be better than what's hard-coded into the game and since every player has access to the same game material, that only leaves one other explanation....

 

HACKING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Or it could be "Anet/ArenaNet Babies".....that's what I like to call them.  They would have the same power as the hackers and then some.

 

I have faith the world will one day see all games developed right, with creativity and true intelligence.

 

 

Word.

Edited January 10 by Horace.3184

[The Boz.2038]

Impressive.

Very nice.

[Dadnir.5038]

5 hours ago, Horace.3184 said:

I noticed how Necro doesn't have Alacrity a long time ago

When was "a long time ago", because the thread is more than 5 month old which is already a long time ago.

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Scourge is a unique healer and it is good for him to be such.
God tier ressing and boon hate are his advantages while boonshare is the loss.

This is good. It builds diversity. If anything a-net should follow this example and give each healer certain unique advantages over others, while having them take a distinct loss somewhere else.

Currently scourge is a great pick for offmeta boonshare dps specs that want to see some end game action.
He does not invalidate half of their sales pitch (boonshare), while providing great safety net for the party if things go sour.

That being said, protection and resolution are two boons that should find their way into scourge's kit.
They absolutely fit this spec's approach to "healing" which is focused on incoming damage mitigation and revivals, rather than pumping large green numbers.


 

Edited January 10 by ZeftheWicked.3076

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

Agreed.  I would love to see Scourge get better access to Protection and Resolution (especially the later) to further emphasize that Healscourge is what you pick when keeping people alive is the concern, not other forms of support.