They should increase stance share (SB) duration in WvW

[Riba.3271]

It is no secret that ranger struggles to find usefulness in largescale fight in WvW.

Out of all the builds, Soulbeast is closest to being viable. With having no pet and access to immobilize pull and large amounts of mobility while merged with Juvenile Raven, it is quite close to being viable when combined with things like Muddy Terrain skill, Dolyak Stance and Child of Earth trait.

Issue is pathetic duration of stances on allied players and I believe best way buffing rangers viability in WvW while not breaking it roaming is boosting the Leader of The Pack traits allied stance duration from 50% to 100% (or even 150% like it is on ranger) in WvW. It still won't be meta because lack of a 2nd good weaponset outside greatsword but at least this would be much needed easy buff for running in groups.

[Soilder.3607]

Eh, it would help, but I don't think it would make Soulbeast meta in squads. One thing Soulbeast (and Ranger) needs to an extent is a good ranged weapon that isn't projectile based (projectiles are unusable in zergs because of reflects).

 

I've played immob Soulbeast in organized comps and the damage and immobs are good but you are quite useless when your tag is not melee pushing as you have 0 viable options for ranged damage.  Dolyak and Bear stance are decent support I admit but that's about all you can bring along with warhorn #5.

 

Such a change would also likely make Soulbeast overpowered in small scale because Soulbeast stances actually already stack their durations with each other. So you could have a 5 man Soulbeast squad wrecking havoc with everyone having permanent Dolyak, Moa, Bear, and One Wolf Pack Stances. That'd be pretty awesome though and I'd like to see it if just for one week.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Soilder.3607

[Riba.3271]

1 hour ago, Soilder.3607 said:

 

Such a change would also likely make Soulbeast overpowered in small scale because Soulbeast stances actually already stack their durations with each other. So you could have a 5 man Soulbeast squad wrecking havoc with everyone having permanent Dolyak, Moa, Bear, and One Wolf Pack Stances. That'd be pretty awesome though and I'd like to see it if just for one week.

Well any organised 5 man party is a menace. 5 Soulbeats would definitely be wellrounded comp but I feel like they would lose to any more organised group due to lack of boonrip and the fact that they wouldn't really have way to boost their support any further on demand. For example healing by removing 2 conditions per second is a lot but it still wouldn't be enough sustain.

I can see new players having issues buffing dedicated 5 players pewpewing single players with perma One Wolf Pack but in the end wouldn't this work already and people just find it boring?

[Riba.3271]

1 hour ago, Soilder.3607 said:

Dolyak and Bear stance are decent support I admit but that's about all you can bring along with warhorn #5.

Wouldn't Griffon stance with increased duration be pretty good now that superspeed stacks duration? +100% endurance regen (50% with vigor) and essentially like 15s of AoE superspeed (with 6s stance duration) if used at right timing? (I am actually not sure how the superspeed part works but I imagine it is 3s per attack dodged)

Edited July 5, 2022 by Threather.9354

[RazielTheUnborn.2189]

3 hours ago, Threather.9354 said:

Leader of The Pack traits allied stance duration from 50% to 100% (or even 150% like it is on ranger) in WvW.

 

Wait... what?

 

*Hops into the game for the first time in three days*

 

*Reads skill tooltips*

 

What the absolute ****?! Why is SB balanced three different bloody ways with PvE actually being the most heavy handed in fubar'ing the class?!?!?!?! Naaahhh.... this for sure confirms a dev had a vendetta against SB in PvE content instead of, "Lowering the skill floor for ease of access." No, you hated a SB giving the whole PT big deeps overshadowing you... Jesus christ. 

[Beddo.1907]

6 hours ago, Threather.9354 said:

(or even 150% like it is on ranger)

Except it's not.

[Sandzibar.5134]

8 hours ago, Soilder.3607 said:

One thing Soulbeast (and Ranger) needs to an extent is a good ranged weapon that isn't projectile based (projectiles are unusable in zergs because of reflects).

 

Youre trying to solve the issue the wrong way. We cant just discard every projectile weapon from a game mode just "because" CMC/Solar.

Projectile blocks and reflects have become too effective and too prevelent.

 

Imo Time Duration needs to go and be replaced with hits absorbed.

Bubbles need to be static like walls.

 

Aurashare needs to be like stance share and last like 0.2secs... 

 

I get that it was all done because an Anet dev got pinsniped whilst commanding 4 years ago... but hey.. that's war for you son.

 

Protect your leaders better.

 

 

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Sandzibar.5134

[Lazze.9870]

8 hours ago, Threather.9354 said:

It is no secret that ranger struggles to find usefulness in largescale fight in WvW.

Out of all the builds, Soulbeast is closest to being viable. With having no pet and access to immobilize pull and large amounts of mobility while merged with Juvenile Raven, it is quite close to being viable when combined with things like Muddy Terrain skill, Dolyak Stance and Child of Earth trait.

Issue is pathetic duration of stances on allied players and I believe best way buffing rangers viability in WvW while not breaking it roaming is boosting the Leader of The Pack traits allied stance duration from 50% to 100% (or even 150% like it is on ranger) in WvW. It still won't be meta because lack of a 2nd good weaponset outside greatsword but at least this would be much needed easy buff for running in groups.

It would be nice, the ally duration was always weak. Though, it doesn't matter much because soulbeast doesn't have good large scale fight weapons.

Anet obviously had to go ahead and give scrapper quickness as well for pve reasons, resulting in support scrapper adding quickness to its already strong stealth and superspeed uptime instead of dialing back on that overpowered kitten. If not for that I'd honestly put druid as closer to being useful in larger fights. As a pure immobilizer druid is already better, and once the number of players stack up, the druid contributes more with its support than soulbeast does as far as damage go, even when dragging along a dead pet.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Lazze.9870

[RazielTheUnborn.2189]

2 hours ago, Sandzibar.5134 said:

Imo Time Duration needs to go and be replaced with hits absorbed.

Bubbles need to be static like walls.

 

This would make bubbles entirely useless though.... How many hits would you suggest is effective? Because I guarantee that number would be hit in a flash. The bubble would be auto deleted the second it was put up. The inverse, giving more ways to do unblockable ranged attacks to the group would be a solution but also runs into, "What number would be useful?" What was proposed is a decent middle ground of giving more ranged attacks non-projectile status so they aren't blocked. 

[Sandzibar.5134]

1 hour ago, RazielTheUnborn.2189 said:

 

This would make bubbles entirely useless though.... How many hits would you suggest is effective? Because I guarantee that number would be hit in a flash. The bubble would be auto deleted the second it was put up. The inverse, giving more ways to do unblockable ranged attacks to the group would be a solution but also runs into, "What number would be useful?" What was proposed is a decent middle ground of giving more ranged attacks non-projectile status so they aren't blocked. 

Would make people have to think about where they are placing the static time duration bubbles I would hope.

 

The hit based aura's being deleted is the same issue as unblockable buff now has.

Each person your shot passes through uses up 1 of the 10 stack of unblockable attacks (signet of the hunt as the example).

So if you try and cleave through 5 people you get 2 shots(!) before all the bubbles and aura's remove your weapon from the game again. I cant recall if the bubble/aura itself also counts as 1 shot use.

 

Dont believe me? go try it in SPvP on the golem group. The 6sec buff duration is just the final slap in the face.

 

The unblockable change makes the buff completely useless for WvW.

 

 

[RazielTheUnborn.2189]

2 hours ago, Sandzibar.5134 said:

Would make people have to think about where they are placing the static time duration bubbles I would hope.

 

The hit based aura's being deleted is the same issue as unblockable buff now has.

Each person your shot passes through uses up 1 of the 10 stack of unblockable attacks (signet of the hunt as the example).

So if you try and cleave through 5 people you get 2 shots(!) before all the bubbles and aura's remove your weapon from the game again. I cant recall if the bubble/aura itself also counts as 1 shot use.

 

Dont believe me? go try it in SPvP on the golem group. The 6sec buff duration is just the final slap in the face.

 

The unblockable change makes the buff completely useless for WvW.

 

 

 

And that is why giving ranged weapons Non-Projectile options which ignores the bubble with no cap on hits is the better solution. The bubble isn't turned useless because it gets instantly blown up. The player doesn't waste shots with unblockable charges being eaten up from piercing or just from a random mook walking in the way of their shot(s). 

 

It's strange you get why Unblockable would be useless from charges being eaten up from piercing or just a random mook walking in the way, but you don't think the bubble having a hit cap isn't the same exact problem on the same coin but the reverse. It's physically the same coin. So why is one useless buff better than the other? They both are useless. 

[Sandzibar.5134]

No. That's my point.. make them both equally useful again.. or have them both be equally worthless rather than the biased mess we currently have.

Edited July 5, 2022 by Sandzibar.5134

[The Game Slayer.7632]

On 7/4/2022 at 11:10 PM, Soilder.3607 said:

Eh, it would help, but I don't think it would make Soulbeast meta in squads. One thing Soulbeast (and Ranger) needs to an extent is a good ranged weapon that isn't projectile based (projectiles are unusable in zergs because of reflects).

 

I've played immob Soulbeast in organized comps and the damage and immobs are good but you are quite useless when your tag is not melee pushing as you have 0 viable options for ranged damage.  Dolyak and Bear stance are decent support I admit but that's about all you can bring along with warhorn #5.

 

Such a change would also likely make Soulbeast overpowered in small scale because Soulbeast stances actually already stack their durations with each other. So you could have a 5 man Soulbeast squad wrecking havoc with everyone having permanent Dolyak, Moa, Bear, and One Wolf Pack Stances. That'd be pretty awesome though and I'd like to see it if just for one week.

I actually manage to consistently get top 3 dps in wvw squads with double longbow and full diviners stance-share. Using quickdraw you can throw up a barrage every 9 seconds and also grant some rather strong utility to the squad with all the stances. It's not really known, but it's pretty viable.. And extremely fun.

Edited July 6, 2022 by The Game Slayer.7632

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Bubbles make ranged weapons entirely useless whereas unblockable piercing through bubbles only makes a portion of that players defense useless.  Still have reflect, evade, stealth, superspeed...lots of other defensive measures.

I guess using gap closers or commissioning dedicated gankers to take out those pesky longbow rangers is too much for the current playerbase to do.  Because that's the only threat here--axe and shortbow are both 900 range so easy to LoS or move out of range of it--this unblockable/bubble discussion eternally centers around lb specifically.

Edited July 6, 2022 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Ive had a lot of fun with a build like this:

Ig longer stanceshare durations would be great for allies. 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwAEdflRweYRMJmJW0X6P3RMF-e

Sword is probably better for the trait and evades. 

I think ranger excels in smallscale up to 15-man groups. Very interesting to play. 

Otherwise, not much else to be said, warrior is also reaching a point of uselessness where stacking Dragonhunters and Scourges yields better results than getting a single warrior in your group. Ranger as an even less meta pick (if meta at all, tho good players can make things work ig) suffers even more from that role compression of the blue and green child meta. 

And a druid immob/heal role is so niche compared to scrapper it's sad... 

I had tried this, but it's a weird one to measure... http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POwEwEmpsC2CjhxxOxyW6ttXy5aA-e

Edited July 7, 2022 by Grand Marshal.4098

[Downstate.4697]

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAENlRweYRsQ2JWsW7PzBkA-zVRYBRBGOsTQjDA-w

Id run something like this personally. Would be your flex stab in a group and at least you get 2 barrages for ranged.

[anduriell.6280]

On 7/5/2022 at 5:10 AM, Soilder.3607 said:

Eh, it would help, but I don't think it would make Soulbeast meta in squads.

You are confused, main rangers aren’t asking to become “meta” they are asking to have a build so they are not thrown out of any squad or treated like trash. Unplayed with the pets is not it, not at least in current design..

Sharing 100% soulbeast duration with Friendlies would be an step forward but I do agree with you it would need more. Much more. Of undoing the biased unneeded nerfs because the pewpew killed them once in WvW or pvp.

But none at Anet seems to grasp that  simple concept.

although having the scrapper treatment and becoming meta so we could see the first actual meta change in 9 years would be a welcomed surprise.

 

[Soilder.3607]

2 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

You are confused, main rangers aren’t asking to become “meta” they are asking to have a build so they are not thrown out of any squad or treated like trash. Unplayed with the pets is not it, not at least in current design..

Sharing 100% soulbeast duration with Friendlies would be an step forward but I do agree with you it would need more. Much more. Of undoing the biased unneeded nerfs because the pewpew killed them once in WvW or pvp.

But none at Anet seems to grasp that  simple concept.

although having the scrapper treatment and becoming meta so we could see the first actual meta change in 9 years would be a welcomed surprise.

 

No, you're confused. Any Ranger not asking to be meta in comps right now does not appreciate the class. Ranger has never been meta in WvW comps. We should all be asking for meta status in WvW comps because we are one of 2 classes (thief) that has never had it. Ranger and Thief are most deserving of being meta in comps because, again, they never have been.

 

Yea the 100% stance share duration would help. It would make stuff like Dolyaks super strong and Bear Stance + Moa Stance would be quite good support. 

 

[anduriell.6280]

29 minutes ago, Soilder.3607 said:

No, you're confused. Any Ranger not asking to be meta in comps right now does not appreciate the class. Ranger has never been meta in WvW comps. We should all be asking for meta status in WvW comps because we are one of 2 classes (thief) that has never had it. Ranger and Thief are most deserving of being meta in comps because, again, they never have been.

 

Yea the 100% stance share duration would help. It would make stuff like Dolyaks super strong and Bear Stance + Moa Stance would be quite good support. 

 

Looking it that way I agree with you ranger ( and thief and in less extent Mesmer and Warrior) need to become meta in WvW squads.

But who are we kidding, we know Anet only plays guardian and engi and think ranger should only exists in the wiki.

[Downstate.4697]

As long as guard has superior group stab it will never be replacable.

The role soulbeast really competes with is guardian right now. If they buffed the stance share to 100% you could maybe have a viable alternative to superspeed access. But then you would drop an engi and replace  it with a sb+another support.

So its not that sb is bad; guard and engi just offer more