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Buff Boon Counters


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Every skill that says "Does more damage if enemy has no boons" needs to go. Instead it needs to do more damage the more boons a player has.

This meta is absolute garbage right now. Get out of the mindset of Boonwars 2 and go back to your old design philosophy where boon applications were rare on every class and that made them powerful. And if this is how you want the game to be now then give us better counters to combat all this ridiculous boon uptime. And unnnerf spellbreaker, a class who's design is to prevent this meta from snowballing.

Strips and corrupts mean nothing when classes are passively reapplying boons with 0 brain input.

I'm honestly tired of having to come to the forums to beg you to step it up everytime I redownload this game. Just do good on at least one patch for crying out loud.

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This is why core days was soo much better and easier to balance because boons were scarce, not like now where boons can uptime over 1 min and being reapplied as soon as they are stripped. Anyone know what combo field is???

Edited by Salt Mode.3780
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3 hours ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

Every skill that says "Does more damage if enemy has no boons" needs to go. Instead it needs to do more damage the more boons a player has.

This meta is absolute garbage right now. Get out of the mindset of Boonwars 2 and go back to your old design philosophy where boon applications were rare on every class and that made them powerful. And if this is how you want the game to be now then give us better counters to combat all this ridiculous boon uptime. And unnnerf spellbreaker, a class who's design is to prevent this meta from snowballing.

Strips and corrupts mean nothing when classes are passively reapplying boons with 0 brain input.

I'm honestly tired of having to come to the forums to beg you to step it up everytime I redownload this game. Just do good on at least one patch for crying out loud.

Bro, put Absorption/Revocation on your Dagger/Shield side.

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3 hours ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

Every skill that says "Does more damage if enemy has no boons" needs to go. Instead it needs to do more damage the more boons a player has.

This meta is absolute garbage right now. Get out of the mindset of Boonwars 2 and go back to your old design philosophy where boon applications were rare on every class and that made them powerful. And if this is how you want the game to be now then give us better counters to combat all this ridiculous boon uptime. And unnnerf spellbreaker, a class who's design is to prevent this meta from snowballing.

Strips and corrupts mean nothing when classes are passively reapplying boons with 0 brain input.

I'm honestly tired of having to come to the forums to beg you to step it up everytime I redownload this game. Just do good on at least one patch for crying out loud.

Its pretty well known that devs regularly browse reddit, Id be surprised if they do more than glance at these forums once a month or so

 

its also now known that they dont really care about our opinions, even they people they did speak w about balance they didnt really implement what eas suggested at all based on the thing that shall not be discussed but did happen

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3 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

This is why core days was soo much better and easier to balance because boons were scarce, not like now where boons can uptime over 1 min and being reapplied as soon as they are stripped. Anyone know what combo field is???

True! Only one that matters now is stealth fields.

3 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

MAYBE, just maybe, things like necro, mesmer, and spellbreaker need to remove more boons than they currently do with their skills. MAYBE WoD should not have been nerfed but turned into a ground targeted AoE.

YES. Make the fields apply 50-100% boon duration negation also.

 

2 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Bro, put Absorption/Revocation on your Dagger/Shield side.

I mean maybe, but think they need to keep their cleansing runes on more.

2 hours ago, Rider.6024 said:

Its pretty well known that devs regularly browse reddit, Id be surprised if they do more than glance at these forums once a month or so

 

its also now known that they dont really care about our opinions, even they people they did speak w about balance they didnt really implement what eas suggested at all based on the thing that shall not be discussed but did happen

I get that feeling.

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Well, harb already does this and heal breaker will prob see some more play due to its condi cleanse and heal output. Deadeye could prob build for it as well.

But yeah, I think boon output in general is too high and anets pve balance could power creep boon share even more for pvp

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This game legit doesnt have any counters to boons.
There is like 1 ability and its SPB elit that is unusable in a real pvp match, every build in this game uptimes several boons with at 100%. If you make a skill that "counter" boons, it would counter everyone.
At this point having so much kitten on your bar is part of the game.

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4 hours ago, FarmBotXD.1430 said:

This game legit doesnt have any counters to boons.
There is like 1 ability and its SPB elit that is unusable in a real pvp match, every build in this game uptimes several boons with at 100%. If you make a skill that "counter" boons, it would counter everyone.
At this point having so much kitten on your bar is part of the game.

Just another aspect of Fashion Wars 2

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I think we need more boons instead. I'm tired of having to look at the status-bar to check what key boons the enemy has... just make them have all the things all the time, way easier than properly balancing. Out of all the ways the game is getting dumbed down lately, this would be actually a good thing. You can just assume the enemy will resist your snares/CC-s, block/negate your bursts etc... unless you throw in some boon removal.
It already happens more ofthen than not, but you have to squint really hard. Make it go away, permaboons for everyone all the time.

#accelerationism #justkillpvpalready

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One thing I’ve recommended in the past is for spell to steal boons instead of strip them. There’s a few reasons for this;

 

First, boon strip is random, but boon steal is prioritized. This would help spell (supposed to be a counter to boon-heavy classes) be able to get rid of stability and protection faster, allowing lockdown and better counter.

 

Second; it would give spell a scaling balance against boon heavy classes, allowing them to perform better against boon heavy classes if they land their rips. This would probably make spell more viable again. 
 

Specifically, this would be done by adding “all boon strip becomes boon steal” to any of the minor traits.

 

I have recommended this on the Warrior Forum a few times, curious to see what the pvp forum thinks 🙂 

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Spellbreker, Mesmer, Necro, and Thief should absolutely be better boon counters than they currently are. 

Also un-nerf Throw mine, but change it from knockback to cripple so it doesn't do its old decap shenanigans. 

Edited by Kuma.1503
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On 7/7/2022 at 2:42 PM, oscuro.9720 said:

One thing I’ve recommended in the past is for spell to steal boons instead of strip them. There’s a few reasons for this;

 

First, boon strip is random, but boon steal is prioritized. This would help spell (supposed to be a counter to boon-heavy classes) be able to get rid of stability and protection faster, allowing lockdown and better counter.

 

Second; it would give spell a scaling balance against boon heavy classes, allowing them to perform better against boon heavy classes if they land their rips. This would probably make spell more viable again. 
 

Specifically, this would be done by adding “all boon strip becomes boon steal” to any of the minor traits.

 

I have recommended this on the Warrior Forum a few times, curious to see what the pvp forum thinks 🙂 

The only problem with this is it would still feel like a boon meta, and getting corrupted would feel like a major nerf to the class.

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5 hours ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

The only problem with this is it would still feel like a boon meta, and getting corrupted would feel like a major nerf to the class.

That’s a fair criticism. I would say that, in my view, and this is only theory so it could well be wrong, that, while it doesn’t reduce the total boon output, it does effectively counter boon stacking, which would help break through boon heavy comps. Yes, it’s not doing anything to reduce overall boons, but it creates more of a play-counter play by creating risk reward, similar to corruption. 

As for corruption feeling like a nerf, I would argue the buff incurred vs boon heavy specs outweighs the nerf via corruption, resulting in a small net buff with a more strict set of counters, where as spell originally was kind of a class with no true counters in its prime. Again, I could be wrong, just theory. 

 

edit: formatting 

Edited by oscuro.9720
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On 7/7/2022 at 8:17 AM, FarmBotXD.1430 said:

This game legit doesnt have any counters to boons.
There is like 1 ability and its SPB elit that is unusable in a real pvp match, every build in this game uptimes several boons with at 100%. If you make a skill that "counter" boons, it would counter everyone.
At this point having so much kitten on your bar is part of the game.

Think I got hit by spinal shivers for more than 12k

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In general it’s a bad idea with the small population and match throwing to allow one group to “help” boon spam their team, knowing their partners in the other side are geared up with the new more damage per boon traits you want.

 

essentially making it so your friendly team can cause you damage easily through actions of theirs is a real BAD idea

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Also, some classes were originally balanced around boon access.  So what is the plan for the originals before everyone got their specialty for free?  
 

engineers have since day 1 only been effective because of boons and field blasts for boons.

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On 7/9/2022 at 8:25 PM, oscuro.9720 said:

That’s a fair criticism. I would say that, in my view, and this is only theory so it could well be wrong, that, while it doesn’t reduce the total boon output, it does effectively counter boon stacking, which would help break through boon heavy comps. Yes, it’s not doing anything to reduce overall boons, but it creates more of a play-counter play by creating risk reward, similar to corruption. 

As for corruption feeling like a nerf, I would argue the buff incurred vs boon heavy specs outweighs the nerf via corruption, resulting in a small net buff with a more strict set of counters, where as spell originally was kind of a class with no true counters in its prime. Again, I could be wrong, just theory. 

 

edit: formatting 

I get what your saying for sure. Counters will always need counters.  But I feel as though warrior currently has a lot of counters in the game atm so I'm unsure if it would be a good feature or not. Maybe if it was a selectable trait it would be better.

I do love the idea of high risk for high reward though.

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3 minutes ago, iKeostuKen.2738 said:

I get what your saying for sure. Counters will always need counters.  But I feel as though warrior currently has a lot of counters in the game atm so I'm unsure if it would be a good feature or not. Maybe if it was a selectable trait it would be better.

I do love the idea of high risk for high reward though.

Yes, warrior needs more love. Specifically for spellbreaker, I’d expand the list of changes to;

 

Add all strips become steals, MBT has 1 more might (back to 2 might), revenge counter now gives a flat damage increase (1350 damage so that cries at 190% crit damage 1 shot Mesmer clones) and transfers conditions instead of copies, dagger auto has slightly increased damage and strips 1 boon on the third strike. 
 

This would give; 3 viable GM traits for different builds/play styles. Winds of Disenchantment would become far more impactful in its still-nerfed state via steal. Spell can now be built to be str dagger as it used to be, be built to be stun based area boon counter, there’s some other prospective builds using revenge counter in my head as well. 


Tbh the state of warrior could use more than just those changes, but I don’t think spell, specifically, far off from being a solid pvp spec personally. I may be optimistic though, and it’s entirely just my opinion. 

 

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Just remove free boon/condi from skills.

Mean

 

Boons spamming and condi spamming on top on damaging skills are a thing and IMO one of the most important balance issue today.

When I look at meta classes they all pressure thanks to "passive packaged" condi and/or boons on top of normal rotation.

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