What if condition cleanse is separated between damaging conditions and non damaging

[Flow.2947]

Separating damaging and non damaging conditions clense can buff/nerv condis  and power builds very much, depending on the implementation. 

I just like the idea of it because it opens up a variation of new possibilities for pve pvp and wvw. 

And the complexity is not to deep. 

I am curious how this would effect the game.

What are your thoughts?

Edited July 7, 2022 by Flow.2947

[Galmac.4680]

So you would need two separate condi cleanse skills - and need to waste a skill button?

[AliamRationem.5172]

22 minutes ago, Galmac.4680 said:

So you would need two separate condi cleanse skills - and need to waste a skill button?

Only if you play ele because, you know, it has 20+ weapon skills.  But if we take away complexity like we do with say mechanist, then you have fewer buttons so we just roll everything into a signet for you.  See how that works?  ANet should hire me for the balance team!

[Flow.2947]

3 hours ago, Galmac.4680 said:

So you would need two separate condi cleanse skills - and need to waste a skill button?

why waste? I didn't said that skills can't still remove both conditions types.

you consider condi clense as non skill button but consider this when you receive the condition you will want to think of mobility vs live. Which makes it a skill full choice you need to make. Before the fight you have the choice in your build to counter both by doing either less dmg or to do more dmg but be more vulnerable to be outmaneuvered or to take more dmg.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Flow.2947

[Cyninja.2954]

7 minutes ago, Flow.2947 said:

why waste? I didn't sad the skills can still remove both conditions types.

you consider condi clense as non skill button but consider this when you revive the condition you will want to think of mobility vs live. Which makes it a skill full choice you need to make. Before the fight you have the choice in your build to counter both by doing either less dmg or to do more dmg but be more vulnerable to be outmaneuver or to take more dmg.

This would only work if condition damage was significantly lowered in a pvp setting. There is no value to go for "mobility" cleansing if the underlying condition damage build kills you in a few seconds.

As is, it makes no sense to split condition removal as long as condition application between damage and control conditions remains un-split.

If movement condition removal has no effect on condition damage reduction, aka being more mobile leads to less damage taken, there is no point to favor it over simply removing the damage. Yes, being controlled is bad, but being dead is worse.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Voyant.1327]

Would be way too much unless they just made stun breaks clear movement conditions or something akin to that.

If an extra step was added to the game it would completely throw off balance in competitive modes. Thus things like slow/cripple would be even more lethal then they already are in. Characters barely have enough cleanses as is with the sheer volume of boons/cond one sees in a match.

And for PvE you're adding another cognitive step with little benefit, would have to use an additional skill to cleanse a negative benefit you could before without much upside beyond choosing the removal of a specific cond. Which in itself imo doesn't provide enough reason to justify making people do more work. I love complexity myself, but only if its cohesive.

Still cool idea. 🍻

[Lottie.5370]

I don't like this idea, and think the way it currently exists is better. It would just add an unnecessary level of confusion to managing/removing condis.

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

This would only work if condition damage was significantly lowered in a pvp setting. There is no value to go for "mobility" cleansing if the underlying condition damage build kills you in a few seconds.

As is, it makes no sense to split condition removal as long as condition application between damage and control conditions remains un-split.

If movement condition removal has no effect on condition damage reduction, aka being more mobile leads to less damage taken, there is no point to favor it over simply removing the damage. Yes, being controlled is bad, but being dead is worse.

Precisely. In fact, this change would make it much easier to remove said damaging conditions, because condi classes would no longer be able to use non-damaging ones as cover. Cover conditions would just straight out be ignored, and people would stick to removing only what's important.

...which is, btw, probably exactly what OP wants - to make it easier for him to remove conditions that are killing him.

[Dawdler.8521]

I am strangely OK with a system that mean you couldnt cleanse my damaging conditions.

[Hotride.2187]

7 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

I am strangely OK with a system that mean you couldnt cleanse my damaging conditions.

If they would balance condi like power is balanced, that'd actually be pretty good. Right now you have skills with bad visual tells, in addition to a lot of general condi vomit. So the helpful tip "just dodge the attack that applies the condis, easy" is not really helpful (usually its just a steady stream of condi vomit that you can't realistically dodge, you must kite/los/cleanse it).

Leave cleanses for non-damaging condis, balance the available cleanses.

It sounds like a lot of work, so no chance it will be done. But to me at least it sounds like a reasonable way to fix condi vs. power and make non-bunkering condi builds viable. Maybe it'd even make condi dmg viable in zergs.

While I still played, WoW had you punished if you dispelled specific shadow priest / warlock dots (so that they could get their dmg in). That made way more sense to me than the condi system in GW2 competitive.

[Quench.7091]

I don't think that they need to create such a divide between all condi-cleanses, but I was thinking of a similar subject. Why aren't there more abilities that specialize in removing specific boons and conditions? For example, engineers have Utility Goggles that remove blind, but Coolant Blast doesn't put out fires. Lots of RPG opportunities, but they're not being taken.

[BobbyT.7192]

Thieves kinda do that already with some of their heals and traits.

Hide in shadows and withdrawal will remove damage and movement inhibiting conditions respectively. The same goes with the traits pain response and guarded initiative.

Though the traits are in the acrobatics, and its been dead since its been 300'd. The heals are taken for other factors besides the condition cleanse.

[Infinity.2876]

27 minutes ago, Quench.7091 said:

I don't think that they need to create such a divide between all condi-cleanses, but I was thinking of a similar subject. Why aren't there more abilities that specialize in removing specific boons and conditions? For example, engineers have Utility Goggles that remove blind, but Coolant Blast doesn't put out fires. Lots of RPG opportunities, but they're not being taken.

There are (like sight beyond sight(spellbreaker) for example)

However they are generally out classed by nonspecific condi cleanse(contemplation of purity(guardian) for example) as those are more helpful in a variety of situations not just when you have blind. As well as skills that apply dozens of conditions per press along with cc reducing the choices of skills.

 

 

[Infinity.2876]

If condition cleanse was separated entirely in skills it would increase the power of cc.

If it was separated in traits, and it kind of is currently(shadows embrace(thief)) then I'm ok with that.

 

The question is "why aren't the blocks diversified?"

 

[Khisanth.2948]

This has already existed in the game, possibly since launch.

What is the point of a "what if" for something that already exist?

[Ashen.2907]

I am not sure that condi damage builds need this much of a buff in competitive play.

[Stx.4857]

This already exists for Thief.  I don't see an issue with other classes getting similar skills or traits...  it just adds to the buildcraft / choices you make.

[Flow.2947]

2 hours ago, Khisanth.2948 said:

This has already existed in the game, possibly since launch.

i know there are some triads eg. on thief doing this already or warrior warhorn is an example. My intention was more focused on professions which have a flat cleanse "x" conditions.