Another utility Skill

[Dean.3056]

What do you think about getting another utility skill so instead of the current 3 we are going to have 4.

 

It is a small change but will open the build variations.

[Cyninja.2954]

3 minutes ago, Dean.3056 said:

What do you think about getting another utility skill so instead of the current 3 we are going to have 4.

Insane power creep.

Quote

 

It is a small change but will open the build variations.

 

As would being able to take 5 utilities over 4, or 6 over 5. More build variety at less depth is not always a good idea.

At 4 utilities, all cost/benefit for taking an elites utilities vanished because you gain access to all 4 if desired.

The change is not small, it's rather huge tbh. If you consider this change to be small, both from an implementation as well as effect it would have, you are gravely mistaken.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Dean.3056]

Just now, Cyninja.2954 said:

 

Insane power creep.

 

 

As would being able to take 5 utilities over 4, or 6 over 5. More build variety at less depth is not always a good idea.

 

The change is not small, it's rather huge tbh. If you consider this change to be small, both from an implementation as well as effect it would have, you are greavely mistaken.

 

True but can solved with general nerfs.

[Cyninja.2954]

2 minutes ago, Dean.3056 said:

 

True but can solved with general nerfs.

In some cases it can't. The cost/benefit of not being able to take all 4 utility skills from an elites kit can't be "nerfed" unless a limit is put in place, which leads us back to square 1.

Also I'd question the validity of a change this large (and it is very large) only to then come back around and "nerf" everything into oblivion to "fix" this change.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Dean.3056]

1 minute ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

In some cases it can't. The cost/benefit of not being able to take all 4 utility skills from an elites kit can't be "nerfed" unless a limit is put in place, which leads us back to square 1.

Also I'd question the validity of a change this large (and it is very large) only to then come back around and "nerf" everything into oblivion to "fix" this change.

 

Obviously short term it is going to be hell as you add another utility you will need to look around.

But I am asking what do you think about when the water are settles and not the progress of balancing it.

[Cyninja.2954]

14 minutes ago, Dean.3056 said:

 

Obviously short term it is going to be hell as you add another utility you will need to look around.

But I am asking what do you think about when the water are settles and not the progress of balancing it.

As mentioned earlier, I personally dislike that it invalidates choices for elite spec utilities for example.

It allows many classes to take even more utility skills along, which significantly impacts content difficulty.

It directly benefits classes which have more synergies in their utility skills over those which barely can take enough to optimize for 1 role.

The change serves nearly no purpose besides homogenizing builds even more in fact reducing build variety instead of increasing it. Power builds would take as many power utilities as they can, condition builds would do the same and support builds would have even more utility skills. Meanwhile any value in choice what to bring gets reduced. Build variations do not increase when you allow more skills to be brought, they actually decrease.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[TexZero.7910]

3 hours ago, Dean.3056 said:

What do you think about getting another utility skill so instead of the current 3 we are going to have 4.

 

It is a small change but will open the build variations.

Only if it functioned similar to GW1.

 

IE you can only have 1 elite but you can always opt not to have an elite and just take another utility instead (heal skill excluded)

[Danikat.8537]

If the alternative to struggling to choose the best 3 utility skills from a list of several which could be useful is being able to pick 4+ mediocre ones which have all been nerfed so it doesn't matter players are able to stack them up then I'm not convinced it would be an improvement.

If we're going into this idea assuming allowing more utilities at once would require nerfing them all so it stays balanced I'd want something other than just not having to choose to convince me the benefits are worth the inevitable loss in functionality.

Especially since we can already unlock all the utility skills and switch them any time we're out of combat, so it's not like picking a utility skill is a big commitment, you don't have to keep the ones you've picked for longer than 1 battle if you don't want to.

[Kaltyn of Torbins Deep.294]

This is not a small change.  It would require the addition of 7 utilities to the game for Revenant alone.  Currently each Revenant legend only has 1 heal skill, 3 utility skills, and 1 elite skill.  So ANET would have to come up with 7 new utilities.  That's the equivalent of adding an entire new legendary stance to the game for Rev's when you take their F-skills into account.

[Fueki.4753]

Arenanet should just let us put Utilities in the Elite slot.

Some Elite skills are next to useless and players might benefit more from an additional Utility instead.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[IndigoSundown.5419]

As Cyninja says, this suggestion would cause more power creep and loss of opportunity cost.

 

1) Your solution to power creep is to ask the devs to then nerf "stuff" to compensate.  I am very leery of ANet nerfing things except for "stuff" that is really overpowered.  My opinion would be that it is better not to buff, particularly game-changing buffs like your suggestion, than it is to "compensate" for buffs with nerfs.  The latter usually works out to the detriment of many builds, but not all, which makes balancing across builds more difficult.

 

Further,  what would you nerf?  Since the proposed buff is to utility skills, would each utility skill then have to lose 33% of its effectiveness to "compensate?"  Be careful what you ask for.

 

2) You don't offer a "solution" for the loss of opportunity cost.  Opportunity cost is the bedrock on which any choice-based build system rests.  Without the necessity to weigh whether you want desirable stuff A or desirable stuff B, the build system is poorer, less engaging and most importantly sacrifices depth.  This leads to a less interesting game.

 

Sorry, I'm not in favor.

[Ashen.2907]

6 hours ago, Dean.3056 said:

 

True but can solved with general nerfs.

Just to be clear, your idea to increase build options is an across the board nerf to existing skills?

[Susy.7529]

I say to make rotation less complicated instead of more...

Edited July 7, 2022 by Susy.7529

[Luthan.5236]

I'd prefer more trait options - 4th slot (for a 4th trait line) there with something new/special. Still remembering the old trait system where you could combine between all 5 but not max out one - to instead get the first step of another one and have  a bit of 4 or or so.

Instead of now alyways 3 that are maxed.

Edited July 7, 2022 by Luthan.5236

[mindcircus.1506]

8 hours ago, Dean.3056 said:

What do you think about getting another utility skill so instead of the current 3 we are going to have 4.

 

It is a small change but will open the build variations.

Power Creep is bad, mkay?

If "build variety" =Better gameplay we would all still be playing gw1

Edited July 7, 2022 by mindcircus.1506

[Sobx.1758]

Enabling more skills only to nerf them so they won't be too strong seems like an attempt to make a change for the sake of change. I don't like it, I don't need it and I'm generally against power creeping everything for no good reason -so no, thanks.

 

...btw, that's another example of "change =/= progress" 😉

Edited July 7, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Something does need to be done about how terrible most Elite skills are though, considering that you're forced to take them. Even most healing skills in the game aren't very good, another forced choice.

 

(Not to mention all the missing Core skills that Elite Specs have, like a full set of signets and so on..)

[Ashen.2907]

16 minutes ago, Hannelore.8153 said:

Something does need to be done about how terrible most Elite skills are though, considering that you're forced to take them. Even most healing skills in the game aren't very good, another forced choice.

 

(Not to mention all the missing Core skills that Elite Specs have, like a full set of signets and so on..)

Yeah, an elite trap for ranger has been on my wishlist for years.

[Veprovina.4876]

Did you see the latest patch?

Now imagine it worse (somehow), and you get what you're suggesting.

 

 

[KrHome.1920]

20 hours ago, Dean.3056 said:

True but can solved with general nerfs.

So what might be the better game design:

3 skills that each have an impact oder 4 skills that don't?

@ topic:

A lot of jack of all trades builds for all classes could be created with one additional utility skill. Even the option to replace the elite skill with a normal utility skill (and not pick an elite skill at all like you could in GW1) would create balancing issues. Some builds could even replace the heal for a 4th or 5th utility skill and be OP, since they have a ton of passive healing via traits.

Edited July 8, 2022 by KrHome.1920