A positive post about ele for once

[vardeleanu.8972]

The other day I saw a reddit post about an amazing tempest build that came out after the alac changes (and hotfix buff), and I wanted to bring some attention to it from here too. I used this build in raids, fractals, strikes and even dungeons to great extent.

link to the post in discussion : https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/vs7y9b/new_and_noteworthy_pve_builds_for_summer_balance/

link to the build only : http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PGgEgEWGBLk5wwYkYafl1cB-zRRYQhCyUNaI%2FyKjqTg0LAfPIhyG4t43mF-e

 

I tried it out and not only is it a good, competitive build for ele in pve, it actually FEELS GOOD for once.

Heal tempest having an actual rotation instead of camping staff water 1 and spamming all utility auras on cooldown for optimal gameplay makes the build so much more enjoyable and fitting with the general elementalist playstyle. It's a build that has 3 overloads in it's rotation for alac, with an occasional 4rth for burst healing. What other heal, or any in fact ele build can say it fully uses all attunements to this extent ? 

 

The build has 100%  25 might, regen, alac, protection,  some vigor,  boon extension and furry share.

On top of this it has so much burst and sustained healing it makes druid look like a joke (always did, but anyway). 

You have stab on overloads so you don't even need to worry about timing them to avoid enemy cc (since you do 100% regen with warhorn 4 and attune water and can take harmonious conduit).

You can even chose to do 100% furry by replacing arcane with air, or you can replace water shout with earth to overcap protection easier, for when things go wrong.

 

The alac-dps build is nice too btw, working very well with the same equipment you'd use for quick-dps catalyst.

 

Can't believe I'm saying this unironically, but ele might actually be "in a very good place" for once. (exept core ele, but core is core, what can you do).

It's funny how such a small change, affecting a single trait can have such a big impact.

Edited July 7, 2022 by vardeleanu.8972

[soulknight.9620]

You do realise that as a HEAL tempest you are competeng vs hfb/ham/druid. And they can do youre job way better with group stab (hi hfb), barrier (hi ham) and loads of additional utility like root/cc (hi druid). Im not even going to list other thing that "full package" supports do better. 

Same goes for damage alac tempest. Competing vs pHam/qFB is not possible due to their dps/utility compared to tempest. 

 

38 minutes ago, vardeleanu.8972 said:

The build has 100%  25 might, regen, alac, protection,  some vigor,  boon extension and furry share.

These are all "common boons". Almost any dps/support can spit loads of them without even trying (aside from vigor which is a bit more complicated). It is not a "unique" thing that makes tempest good. 

45 minutes ago, vardeleanu.8972 said:

You have stab on overloads so you don't even need to worry about timing them to avoid enemy cc (since you do 100% regen with warhorn 4 and attune water and can take harmonious conduit).

The build you have posted has no stab aside from earth OL. So the other 2 OL will be a challenge to pull off. Why arcane precision? And elemental lockdown instead of arcane ressurection? 

40 minutes ago, vardeleanu.8972 said:

FEELS GOOD

is quite different to 

 

40 minutes ago, vardeleanu.8972 said:

"in a very good place"

cause you can enjoy some niche things in gw2, but that doesnt make them good at all. 

 

Tempest has a lot of problems atm, and it needs to be fixed for tempest to be on par with abovementioned supps. Is it playable? sure, is it "fun"? maybe. Is is optimal? no. 

[vardeleanu.8972]

34 minutes ago, soulknight.9620 said:

root/cc (hi druid)

Druid is 10 times worse than tempest. It doesn't have shooting mist, barely has any direct healing outside of celestial avatar, doesn't bring anything new (tempest has aoe or long single target immobilizes too btw, you just don't usually use them). Now that it doesn't even have spirits, druid is kind of a joke spec to be honest. Why play it when heal tempest and heal mech exist ?

 

Also I'd say tempest competes with mech, since despite ham having barrier, it has quite lower healing to sustain your group if you miss time the barrier of if there's high burst and don't have time to generate it. Ham also doesn't get the aoe revive tempest has with arcane resurrection.

But you'd already know that issue if you'd play any hard endgame pve.

 

34 minutes ago, soulknight.9620 said:

Im not even going to list other thing that "full package" supports do better. 

Oh please, go ahead.

 

34 minutes ago, soulknight.9620 said:

The build you have posted has no stab aside from earth OL. So the other 2 OL will be a challenge to pull off. Why arcane precision? And elemental lockdown instead of arcane ressurection? 

That is the build given in the template reddit post, not the one I use.

I thought people could put 2 and 2 together from my descriptions to know which traits I changed, but I see now that may be too hard for certain people to do, so here's the link to the build I use : 

http://en.gw2skills.net/editor/?PG0EgEmpMCWIDj1wIx0+6qpC-zRIYY0xXGVnCpXB+OA-e

 

Also the gw2 build template link, so you can copy paste it without tiring your precious braincells : [&DQYROiUXMCrHEnQABQHLAI8AjwB0EpEAJgCWAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA=]

 

34 minutes ago, soulknight.9620 said:

cause you can enjoy some niche things in gw2, but that doesnt make them good at all. 

 

Just because you don't see 50 tempests in your open world event and people would rather afk on mechanist auto attack in pugs, doesn't mean they are "niche" or that the build isn't good.

 

Maybe learn to read skills and compare numbers before you proceed to complain about the meta. Things change, and you are completely ignorant if you just go mUh BuT fIrEbRaNd,  whenever the new things come out.

Edited July 7, 2022 by vardeleanu.8972

[kara.4597]

Quote

Just because you don't see 50 tempests in your open world event and people would rather afk on mechanist auto attack in pugs, doesn't mean they are "niche" or that the build isn't good.

 

Nobody but NOBODY will care what build you play in open world. you can even go vanilla style and still consider it decent.

The biggest issue is the big hard end game content that ele cant be part of AT ALL. you are kicked out because you are a super high risk of failing your job compare to other classes/specs that can be viable for any of those content.

 

 

Ele is fun to play regardless the build but the amount of effort put into learning how to play it cant be compete to the easy and MORE easy builds.  

 

Quote

Also I'd say tempest competes with mech, since despite ham having barrier, it has quite lower healing to sustain your group if you miss time the barrier of if there's high burst and don't have time to generate it. Ham also doesn't get the aoe revive tempest has with arcane resurrection.

are you serious? compete with mech THE MECH?

The most desired and asked for spec next to hfb.

 

 

 

And where are the burst heals on ele, the ELEMENTAL ? with the most worse ai and complete unpredictable movement of it to do a heal. or the time you will BARELY be on water attun as you must swap over and over to keep alac on. or the amount of time spent to do the overload or wait for overload. EVEN with alac and quickness is way to much compare to EVEN druid for burst heals.

 

 

Tempest is good as alac/dps  that can compete maaaaaaybe with the mech and renegade if you dont get interupted but still in the end you need to play extremely well to pull it off compare to the rest. 

But as alac/heal its a no go NOT for raids/strikes cm.

 

Because in the end in the open world you can auto attack naked and still call it decent because you cleared it.

So it doesnt matter how you perform you will be rewarded. 

[vardeleanu.8972]

1 hour ago, kara.4597 said:

And where are the burst heals on ele, the ELEMENTAL ? with the most worse ai and complete unpredictable movement of it to do a heal. or the time you will BARELY be on water attun as you must swap over and over to keep alac on. or the amount of time spent to do the overload or wait for overload. EVEN with alac and quickness is way to much compare to EVEN druid for burst heals.

Ele has burst heal on :

water 2 every 7 seconds
water signer

water globe + frozen burst (not part of your rotation, again you can access them every 7 seconds)

Water elemental elite (you can command it to do a 7000 heal every 15 secconds)

burst heal on DODGING with evasive arcana

WATER OVERLOAD

 

It's pretty clear from the paragraph above that you never played ele in your life, and from this :

1 hour ago, kara.4597 said:

The biggest issue is the big hard end game content that ele cant be part of AT ALL. you are kicked out because you are a super high risk of failing your job compare to other classes/specs that can be viable for any of those content.

 it's pretty clear you never even played raids. 

 

I think this summarizes it very nicely : 

1 hour ago, kara.4597 said:

are you serious? compete with mech THE MECH?

The most desired and asked for spec next to hfb

 

Maybe go comment on subjects you actually play around, or at least have the slightest idea what you are speaking of. 

That way you will have more arguments than the "popular opinion" you heard that one time from a healmech in fractals t1 and won't have to react to every post with a confused face.

Edited July 7, 2022 by vardeleanu.8972

[soulknight.9620]

54 minutes ago, vardeleanu.8972 said:

Also I'd say tempest competes with mech, since despite ham having barrier, it has quite lower healing to sustain your group if you miss time the barrier of if there's high burst and don't have time to generate it. Ham also doesn't get the aoe revive tempest has with arcane resurrection.

Your build is HEAL tempest, so you actually compete with HEALFirebrand and HEALAlacMech. Since if i get HFB i can easily swap HAM for pMech or Alacrev/alac mirage etc. There are a few group comps that work. You would actually need to know this if you play any hard endgame content. 
 

1 hour ago, vardeleanu.8972 said:

Druid is 10 times worse than tempest. It doesn't have shooting mist, barely has any direct healing outside of celestial avatar, doesn't bring anything new (tempest has aoe or long single target immobilizes too btw, you just don't usually use them). Now that it doesn't even have spirits, druid is kind of a joke spec to be honest. Why play it when heal tempest and heal mech exist ?

Now about druid. This spec im not quite familiar with, but have seen them in action a few times. And it is a lot weaker than HFB/HAM, it has problems and needs tuning/buffs, but still is more potent than tempest.
They bring: decent heal (not the best, not the worst), AOE ress via ult spirit, superspeed, stealth (for skipping mobs for ex.), decent on demand cc.

 

1 hour ago, vardeleanu.8972 said:

Ham also doesn't get the aoe revive tempest has with arcane resurrection.

Arcane resurrection is not aoe revive. Stop confussing newer people with this kind of comments. It spawns a geyser that heals downstate and lets you get them up safer and faster. Druid ult spirit on the other hand IS aoe resurrect.  
 

57 minutes ago, vardeleanu.8972 said:

Oh please, go ahead.

HFB: Projectile block/reflect, stab on demand, dps boost via HFB tome 1 (skill 5), mob pulls, resolution, aegis, strong CC via spirit hammer/sanctuary, signet of ressurection on a quite low cd (you do know that meta HFB build has 2 "free" utility slots and an empty ulti slot to choose anything you need for that matter), virtue heal (basically a soothing mist 0.8.). 
HAM: barrier (which generates passivly, and burst barrier on demand), stab on demand, projectile block/reflect, area stunbreak, aegis, resolution, loads of strong CC, decent dps for a heal, loads of condi cleanse on demand, Medical dispersion field (thats basically a soothing mist 2.0). 
 

1 hour ago, vardeleanu.8972 said:

That is the build given in the template reddit post, not the one I use.

Then why you post that link and say that "it works good". You misslead newer players that way. 

 

1 hour ago, vardeleanu.8972 said:

I thought people could put 2 and 2 together from my descriptions to know which traits I changed, but I see now that may be too hard for certain people to do, so here's the link to the build I use : 

It is basic logic that the person that makes a point must present prove of that point, not other way around. If being consistant is too hard, thats not my problem. 

1 hour ago, vardeleanu.8972 said:

Just because you don't see 50 tempests in your open world event and people would rather afk on mechanist auto attack in pugs, doesn't mean they are "niche" or that the build isn't good.

 

Maybe learn to read skills and compare numbers before you proceed to complain about the meta. Things change, and you are completely ignorant if you just go mUh BuT fIrEbRaNd,  whenever the new things come out.

Are we talking about open world? or did you actually stated that: "I used this build in raids, fractals, strikes and even dungeons to great extent."? 
If we are talking about strikes/raids/fracs/dungeons then yes it actually means that if you see a lot of players playing specific comp/build that it is good for its role. That is what meta is. If you want to play something offmeta, go ahead noone will stop you, but thats not enough of an argument to say that this spec is "in a very good place". Its not. 

So why so agressive? You posted a build that has flaws, that is outclassed by other specs/builds, and is in no way optimal for the role you want it to fill. Got legit criticism, and went berserk on calling poeple names, assuming noone here plays endgame etc. If you posted a build to on the forum you should have known it will be criticised. Thats how things work. Dont want to get criticism - dont post on public forums. And you actually didnt posted anything new. Check other "tempest" posts in ele subforum. Similar builds have been discussed a lot already and changing 1-2 skills/a few gear slots isnt gonna make tempest flaws go away in some magical way. 

[vardeleanu.8972]

 

1 hour ago, soulknight.9620 said:

HFB: Projectile block/reflect, stab on demand, dps boost via HFB tome 1 (skill 5), mob pulls, resolution, aegis, strong CC via spirit hammer/sanctuary, signet of ressurection on a quite low cd (you do know that meta HFB build has 2 "free" utility slots and an empty ulti slot to choose anything you need for that matter), virtue heal (basically a soothing mist 0.8.). 
HAM: barrier (which generates passivly, and burst barrier on demand), stab on demand, projectile block/reflect, area stunbreak, aegis, resolution, loads of strong CC, decent dps for a heal, loads of condi cleanse on demand, Medical dispersion field (thats basically a soothing mist 2.0). 

Your "list other thing that "full package" supports do better. "  Includes stability, resolution, aegis, barrier instead of healing, and then 4 lines of things that elementalist has. But you wouldn't know that, because it's not in the pre-made snowcrows build, is it ?

I'll take a guess at < 3 hours on elementalist total and be done with this pathetic attempt at discussion with someone that only manages to come up with empty arguments for metaslaving.

 

Btw : 

1 hour ago, soulknight.9620 said:

dps boost via HFB tome 1 (skill 5)

Good job naming ashes of the just a dps boost. I had a good laugh. You know what else counts as a dps boost by that amazing logic ?  Every massive aoe the elementalist does (4 of them), and Static Charge from overload air. 

 

Here's so you know : ashes of the just is a skill with history, so at least try to know how it works when you bring it up, otherwise it becomes very apparent, very quickly that you either can't read tooltips or that you play for less than 8 months.

1 hour ago, soulknight.9620 said:

You would actually need to know this if you play any hard endgame content. 

Just a tip for the future, noobie  :  D 

 

1 hour ago, soulknight.9620 said:

Then why you post that link and say that "it works good". You misslead newer players that way. 

 

I never actually said "it works good". That is not how quotation marks are used in english.

 

Perhaps these "newer players" you keep talking about should go play the actual classes in the game before complaining and ranting on forums. 
Don't you think so ?    : o ) 

Or maybe just keep comparing firebrand with mechanist and mechanist with firebrand, since that seems to be all you actually have experience with.

Edited July 7, 2022 by vardeleanu.8972

[Forum Moderator.3419]

Hello Everyone,

Just a reminder to keep it civil and avoid fighting with each other. 

Regards.

[Kuma.1503]

GW2 Endgame really isn't that hard. It isn't like WoW high mythic+ keys where only specs with specific utility can clear them. Tempest is able to competently fill the Halac and DPS Alac role, and can perform up to the necessary standard for any content you choose to bring it into. 

OP likely experienced that first hand, realized Ele is perfectly functional at its job, and made their post. 

Tempest also brings some unique utility to the table. AoE Res power with Arcane Restoration. Rebound, Boon Extension. Staff can be run in groups that are struggling for a harder carry (my personal choice for boneskinner pugs). 

I definitely think the community as a whole sleeps on Tempest, it's not as bad as doomers will tell you, but it also isn't without its flaws. 

Ice Elemental is brings all the frustration of AI without the ability to control it with pet commands like "Return to Me"

Overloads are easy to interrupt. This becomes a huge problem in CC heavy fights where you are expected to dodge to avoid CC. You can trait stability to get around this issue, but this comes at a cost to your healing, and gives up vigor. 

In my opinion, the self-stability should be baseline. The trait should instead allow Overloads to share stability to allies when used. 

Alacrity at the End of the overload makes the gameplay clunky, delays your boons, and makes getting interrupted especially punishing because you went through that 4 second cast time and put your attunement on a 17 second CD for nothing.

 

To say tempest is in a very good place would imply that it has very few flaws that hold it back. It is most certainly playable, and I would argue it is underrated, but there are still glaring issues which should be fixed in my opinion. 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2022 by Kuma.1503

[AliamRationem.5172]

16 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

GW2 Endgame really isn't that hard. It isn't like WoW high mythic+ keys where only specs with specific utility can clear them. Tempest is able to competently fill the Halac and DPS Alac role, and can perform up to the necessary standard for any content you choose to bring it into. 

OP likely experienced that first hand, realized Ele is perfectly functional at its job, and made their post. 

Tempest also brings some unique utility to the table. AoE Res power with Arcane Restoration. Rebound, Boon Extension. Staff can be run in groups that are struggling for a harder carry (my personal choice for boneskinner pugs). 

I definitely think the community as a whole sleeps on Tempest, it's not as bad as doomers will tell you, but it also isn't without its flaws. 

Ice Elemental is brings all the frustration of AI without the ability to control it with pet commands like "Return to Me"

Overloads are easy to interrupt. This becomes a huge problem in CC heavy fights where you are expected to dodge to avoid CC. You can trait stability to get around this issue, but this comes at a cost to your healing, and gives up vigor. 

In my opinion, the self-stability should be baseline. The trait should instead allow Overloads to share stability to allies when used. 

Alacrity at the End of the overload makes the gameplay clunky, delays your boons, and makes getting interrupted especially punishing because you went through that 4 second cast time and put your attunement on a 17 second CD for nothing.

 

To say tempest is in a very good place would imply that it has very few flaws that hold it back. It is most certainly playable, and I would argue it is underrated, but there are still glaring issues which should be fixed in my opinion. 

 

 

This thread makes me wanna barf, but at least this guy gets it.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

17 hours ago, soulknight.9620 said:

Now about druid. This spec im not quite familiar with, but have seen them in action a few times. And it is a lot weaker than HFB/HAM, it has problems and needs tuning/buffs, but still is more potent than tempest.
They bring: decent heal (not the best, not the worst), AOE ress via ult spirit, superspeed, stealth (for skipping mobs for ex.), decent on demand cc.

 

Druid lost too much to be in the S-tier : already lost power buff to allies in the past, but now you struggle to maintain even the 25 mights, you lost frost spirit +10% damage buff, you lost sun spirit burning buff, and the investment in spirit and BD for alacrity don't really give you margin for other skills or gear.

It is still a decent healer, but not worth it anymore I guess. FB and mechanist, even Rev, are more reactive on healing and overall can be better DPS and support.

[zeyeti.8347]

Hello ,

 

https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/popularity

Well , that sum up the whole thing , élé is barely useless in any of his specs in endgame content and not popular at all and thats a fact !

I do fractals strikes and raids and i barely see any élé and when i see one it's underperforming in his role.

Why should i play it ? 

-Weaver ? A freaking joke , locked in melee , no range whatsoever , squishy as hell , super punishing rotation,...

-Tempest ? Maybe as dps now , ... meh i ll stick to my condi alac mech . As healer then ? Nah Ham better in all ways , more boons , more consistent on demand healing , and freaking more ez to play.

-Catalyst ? this one make me crazy , it got buffed then nerfed then rebuffed then renerfed , and it goes on ! Never know if its gonna stay in place more than 2 months . And now is pretty kitten , less damage than a qfb as quickness provider and harder to play.

 

kitten i hope anet's gonna buff it again so i can play it 2 months then cry again because it will be nerfed again.

 

Less popular class for endgame for more than 5 years , ... I only use it as catalyst for chest farm cause EE also increase your magic find , lol.

 

Edited July 8, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[Sunshine.5014]

On 7/7/2022 at 8:41 AM, vardeleanu.8972 said:

Ele has burst heal on :

water 2 every 7 seconds
water signer

water globe + frozen burst (not part of your rotation, again you can access them every 7 seconds)

Water elemental elite (you can command it to do a 7000 heal every 15 secconds)

burst heal on DODGING with evasive arcana

WATER OVERLOAD

"Burst" heal. Everything on the list beside the Signet and summon is on Water Attunement. Basically, all the heal you list are not accessible on 3 out of 4 of the attunements. Signet of Water is on a 20s cooldown, and Water elemental has down time.

Basically, you still don't understand why Ele is WORSE than HB or Mech: it's the Uptime:

- HB has access to everything at all time. It can give stab at any time. It can give quickness any time. It can give aegis at any time. It can heal any time, it can cc any time...

- Mech has access to everything at all time similiarly

- Ele on the other hand, has everything on the list above restricted to 1 out of 4 attunements. And you know what, when you go into Water Attunement, you lose the up time on traits/skills that are tied to Fire/Air/Earth (like CC/Stab). As I mentioned before, having 20 weapon skills is NOT a blessing. It's a LIABILITY. It's not that you have 20 skills, it's that you're LOCKED OUT of 15 skills at any time. It's not like Engineer's kits where they have no cooldown and has 100% up time if needed. Ele's skills should be substantially buffed (not damage, but add more utilities) to address the fact that their uptime is way lower than other classes.

I think we should have a slogan for Ele Balance: "It's the UPTIME, kitten".

[vardeleanu.8972]

3 hours ago, Sunshine.5014 said:

Basically, you still don't understand why Ele is WORSE than HB or Mech: it's the Uptime:

My bad, I forgot wash the pain away and healing ripple.

With arcane and the alac you do yourslef now, you can attune water every 6.8 seconds.

So you got wash the pain away, water signet, sometimes elemental elite, regeneration , soothing mist, and even ice bow 1 for burst and then consistent heals on that rare instance when you need healing and you have the very large  6.8 seconds cooldown on water attunement, because you just came out of it ( in order to start doing an overload right before a big burst, witch you should better know to not do as an ele player, but anyway)

Not to mention you also have 5k healing and aoe resurrection on trated arcane geyser if someone manages to down between all of that.

I'd say that's enough healing to outperform a healmech (that needs to time it's barrier btw),  even while you're waiting for your water attunement to recharge. 

 

 

And on the topic of uptime, I think it's  the other way around. It's not a bad thing that ele has downtime on it's weapon healing skills if it wants to attune to another element to something else. It's called good game design, and I think that the issue is rather firebrand and mech not having it.

 

Mech in general is a horribly designed spec that promotes a low to nonexistent skill ceiling to a playerbase that historically required one of the top skill floors (engi players), while firebrand doesn't punish you at all since you still have access to it's passive effects after using tomes, and needs only 1 utility skill to keep up quickness.

 

I think that scrapper, chrono, druid and herald, despite being weaker, are better examples of a balance ideal we should try to bring supports to, instead of making everything as ridiculously easy and "overpowered" as mech and firebrand seem.

Edited July 8, 2022 by vardeleanu.8972

[zeyeti.8347]

vardeleanu.8972

"With arcane and the alac you do yourslef now, you can attune water every 6.8 seconds."

 

Yeah, i think you forgot something , while using arcane , you lack fury uptime for your group (dont think dagger air 2 is sufficient)

and when you overload an element , this same element has a 100% increase cd so it's 6.8 x 2 and not overloading mean less alacrity uptime now , so you cant consider not overloading  , and for soothing water while it is stronger in term of healing than firebrand sharing f2 it has a duration of 7- 10 secs  while you get out of water .

 

The main problem here is , lack of boons that other specs has (firebrand and mech supremacy like always) like aegis or stability , some core boons you have to trade off great utlity traits (like -15% cd on attunements) , playing air for the only purpose to give fury uptime (a whole traitline only for that feels very bad) , and while i agree water overload is still the strongest heal of the game , going out of water and then having to pop out strong healing at that right timing feels bad , sure you have wash the pain and the signet of water , but you cant compare that to the sustain on demand healing mech and firebrand has 

 

"And on the topic of uptime, I think it's  the other way around. It's not a bad thing that ele has downtime on it's weapon healing skills if it wants to attune to another element to something else. It's called good game design, and I think that the issue is rather firebrand and mech not having it."

 

So you made a point there , mech and firtebrand are op , but i personnaly will be happier if they put all those healers on the same level instead of nerfing them , so it will be more of a matter of "fun , i d like to play" and will feel nice to play a tempest heal , knowing you are not a burden or lacking something you shouldnt if you played another class.

 

Either way you cant deny the lfg asking for healers : only mechs or Fb , never seen a group asking for a tempest heal , just look at all those guilds who cleared harvest temple cm do you see any healer tempest or herald ? no i only see mechs firebrand and virtuoso.

Btw anet posted they didnt wanted tempest heal to be a thing , they were more oriented to play it fresh air dps alac 

 

Edited July 9, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[AliamRationem.5172]

58 minutes ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

vardeleanu.8972

"With arcane and the alac you do yourslef now, you can attune water every 6.8 seconds."

 

Yeah, i think you forgot something , while using arcane , you lack fury uptime for your group (dont think dagger air 2 is sufficient)

and when you overload an element , this same element has a 100% increase cd so it's 6.8 x 2 and not overloading mean less alacrity uptime now , so you cant consider not overloading  , and for soothing water while it is stronger in term of healing than firebrand sharing f2 it has a duration of 7- 10 secs  while you get out of water .

 

The main problem here is , lack of boons that other specs has (firebrand and mech supremacy like always) like aegis or stability , some core boons you have to trade off great utlity traits (like -15% cd on attunements) , playing air for the only purpose to give fury uptime (a whole traitline only for that feels very bad) , and while i agree water overload is still the strongest heal of the game , going out of water and then having to pop out strong healing at that right timing feels bad , sure you have wash the pain and the signet of water , but you cant compare that to the sustain on demand healing mech and firebrand has 

 

"And on the topic of uptime, I think it's  the other way around. It's not a bad thing that ele has downtime on it's weapon healing skills if it wants to attune to another element to something else. It's called good game design, and I think that the issue is rather firebrand and mech not having it."

 

So you made a point there , mech and firtebrand are op , but i personnaly will be happier if they put all those healers on the same level instead of nerfing them , so it will be more of a matter of "fun , i d like to play" and will feel nice to play a tempest heal , knowing you are not a burden or lacking something you shouldnt if you played another class.

 

Either way you cant deny the lfg asking for healers : only mechs or Fb , never seen a group asking for a tempest heal , just look at all those guilds who cleared harvest temple cm do you see any healer tempest or herald ? no i only see mechs firebrand and virtuoso.

Btw anet posted they didnt wanted tempest heal to be a thing , they were more oriented to play it fresh air dps alac 

 

They were thinking they only had to compare alac to alac.  In other words, you can replace HAM with tempest alac dps and run healbrand.  But why would you do that when you can run HAM with quickbrand and have better healing, boons, and damage?  Every road leads back to their refusal to balance firebrand and now mechanist.  They seem to have realized the need to "make room" for other specs, but somebody in the decision-making process is reluctant to do what needs to be done here.

[vardeleanu.8972]

7 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

Yeah, i think you forgot something , while using arcane , you lack fury uptime for your group (dont think dagger air 2 is sufficient)

and when you overload an element , this same element has a 100% increase cd so it's 6.8 x 2 and not overloading mean less alacrity uptime now , so you cant consider not overloading  , and for soothing water while it is stronger in term of healing than firebrand sharing f2 it has a duration of 7- 10 secs  while you get out of water .

The rotation you do makes sure that you don't stay out of water 7 seconds, you don't overload water unless you absolutely need it and you can share furry if someone provides it with fire 4 and extend it with earth 4, which means at least 50% furry uptime if someone has it in your group. There is almost no way that between a quickness dps and 3 pure dps players in your subgroup no one will do any kind of furry for you to share, even more so now after the trait reworks. But if that's a real issue you can just swap the elemental elite for rebound, which you can use to kickstart furry sharing until it starts popping out of other's people random traits, and is still a good support tool for later in the fight.

 

I think you forgot to read the rotation for the build, but since you seem to be a avid mech and firebrand enjoyer I can't blame you for not being used to having to know and use a rotation.

 

7 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

So you made a point there , mech and firtebrand are op , but i personnaly will be happier if they put all those healers on the same level instead of nerfing them

"Given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of a game"
 That would make the game basically just play itself, and you would just chose your preferred coat of paint to put on your auto-carry role that you only have to toggle skill 1 on to clear the fight.

I don't know how to say this nicely, but if people can't play fractals, raids or such without mech and firebrand, maybe they shouldn't play them at all. There is other instanced content, such as dungeons and strikes, for those that enjoy easier things.

 

7 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

so it will be more of a matter of "fun , i d like to play" and will feel nice to play a tempest heal , knowing you are not a burden or lacking something you shouldnt if you played another class.

You do realize that this exact result can also be achieved by removing things other builds shouldn't have in the first place, right ? 

Which one is easier : buffing the support builds for 7 classes and their specializations or nerfing the 2 dumb builds that are destroying the meta ?

 

7 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

Btw anet posted they didnt wanted tempest heal to be a thing , they were more oriented to play it fresh air dps alac 

Oh, must have missed that. Can you link this post to me ?

Was it when they chose to put the alac trait on the same tier with the only dmg increase trait tempest has by any chance ?

Edited July 9, 2022 by vardeleanu.8972

[Sunshine.5014]

48 minutes ago, vardeleanu.8972 said:

and you can share furry if someone provides it with fire 4 and extend it with earth 4, which means at least 50% furry uptime if someone has it in your group

This logic is cute.

If you need another slot to provide Fury for you to even "provide" Fury, then what's the point? HB/HAM can bring Fury solo. Now to bring a heal Tempest, I as a commander, need to make sure the rest of the group also bring Fury? It's funny that you are used to twisted logic that you can't see how your text works against your argument.

Now I see why the mod locked the thread initially. This is just a troll bait. It's my bad that I fed the troll. See yah, byee.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Still think overload for alacrity is the worst choice they made; this thread is an example on how it is dysfonctional.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Share furry please.

[Crash.5486]

If the Alac was a pulsing thing that went on during an overload then yes maybe. Now that its at the end of an overload is just silly. Even if you run the stab on overload trait you still get interrupted a lot and give 0 alac. If it was pulsing you would at least give some no matter what happens. 

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

2 minutes ago, Crashdown.7419 said:

If the Alac was a pulsing thing that went on during an overload then yes maybe. Now that its at the end of an overload is just silly. Even if you run the stab on overload trait you still get interrupted a lot and give 0 alac. If it was pulsing you would at least give some no matter what happens. 

 

I want alac that applies itself when I need it most.  I shall call it "smart alac".

[zeyeti.8347]

"We expect this to be viable with 'Fresh Air' overload builds, but will be watching to see what else the community does with it- and what further tweaks we can make in the future to help it succeed." 

 

Here you go mate , dont think fresh air is for healing tempest ... @ vardeleanu.

They do not exclude healing tempest , but man you cant deny it is poorly designed . The grandmaster trait is just alacrity ! nothing else ! 

Sure someone will share fury and whatsoever , but why you have to rely on other to do it , when you can take a spec who has the full package?

And about rotation on a healing spec it's just for maintaining boons , and your thing of using rebound for just pop out some fury is ridiculous , this skill is an anti wipe , and mainly not used to just add some fury...

Nerfing the other specs is a matter of point of view , you have your points , i have mine cant really argue about that.

The point is as tempest , you have timing , or holes in your rotation where you cant heal , and even in water you have to wait like 4 secs to overload , just imagine you need group healing now !

"Oke guys just wait , i know you are dying but be patient the healing is coming , like the dragons in games of thrones".

Elé is poorly designed , it's not a surprise it's least played class (tempest , weaver and jokalyst all combined) in engame content. Even snowcrow hasnt updated tempest build for ele yet , they are none builds at all ,...

And that there you cant argue , i ping it once again , cause i may lack rotation as healer , but you lack eyesight ,...

https://gw2wingman.nevermindcreations.de/popularity 

On 7/9/2022 at 7:02 PM, vardeleanu.8972 said:

Was it when they chose to put the alac trait on the same tier with the only dmg increase trait tempest has by any chance ?

Yes as they choose to put the alacrity on the same trait line as bastion of elements ( you know the only flat healing the tempest has in his traits , doesnt count regeneration , thats for littles scars ) , your logic is marvellous you counter yourself , dont need anybody.

@ sunshine , i agree this guy must be a troll , like ele atm : a troll pick . And sorry i also fed the troll. The point here of all people agree , ele need some complete review and checkup:

-Tempest was designed as support/damage , it underperform in those two.

-Weaver was designed to be the top class dps (hardest spec to play be my opinion) , it has top notch dps ,... ont the raid golem training !

-Jokalist a more bruiser type of ele designed to compete with firebrand i guess in term of quickness dps provider , Fb still outperform it in all ways .

Have a nice day ,

Edited July 11, 2022 by zeyeti.8347

[Raven.1793]

I used to play aura share tempest, currently play heal alac mech, and have been trying out heal alac tempest. This looks like a good place to compare my experiences with HAM and HAT.

 

Party sustain - HAT has better healing output but it's actually about equal to barrier + heal output on HAM. Barrier is more useful in general and it's better at keeping parties alive. Winner: HAM

 

Burst healing - HAT has bigger burst heals compared to HAM. However, you're locked out of big heals for over half your rotation. Burst healing is worthless if you can't deploy it at the right time. Winner: HAM

 

Condi cleanse - HAM can convert condis to boons but HAT has overall better condi removal. The problem once again is that it's locked behind the rotation. Fortunately, in pve, you usually don't have to deal with condis immediately. Tie

 

Wipe recovery - HAT has really good downstate management with geyser and glyph of renewal as well as rebound to prevent it from happening in the first place. HAM can generate rallies by downing enemies. Winner: HAT

 

Party support - Both HAM and HAT maintain 100% alac uptime and generate other key boons including might, regeneration, protection, and vigor. Though HAT generates more might, HAT can share a small amount of stab and aegis which is generally considered to be much more valuable. Winner: HAM

 

Survivability - I generally run Minstrel stats so I don't see much of a difference in hp and armor. Those who run Harrier will likely find HAT to be squishy. Though HAM has shared stab and aegis, I usually take both Armor of Earth and Harmonious Conduit since I really don't like my overloads to be interrupted. HAM also has a bit of a problem bursting heals on itself since its best burst heal ability (Bandage Blast) only hits allies. Winner: HAT

 

Damage - Nobody really looks for damage in a healer support but sometimes every little bit counts and other times you just want to shame that one person who's totally running the wrong build. Mace is too stronk, no contest here. Winner: HAM

 

Alternatives - HAM has access to other great engi builds like dps alac mech, condi mech, power holo, power rifle mech, and quick scrapper. HAT can switch to dps cata, quick cata, or condi alac tempest. Fresh air alac tempest is a joke though. Still, there is a good range of options for both and even though I personally like the engi builds better, I'll call this one a tie.

 

Overall, I find HAM to be a better healer and party support. HAT only pulls ahead in personal survival and wipe recovery scenarios which a good group really should be trying to avoid. The main thing holding back HAT is the same thing that holds back other ele builds: its strict adherence to an inflexible rotation. Despite being billed as a class that provides flexibility, bad things happen to almost every ele build when their rotation is interrupted and HAT is no exception. One bad icebow drop or an interrupted overload can ruin your day. To its credit, HAT is better than other ele builds in this regard due to its survivability and rez power.

 

So there's my opinion. HAM is still a better heal alac support but HAT is not too far behind and I'd take either for a heal / alac spot.

[Eddbopkins.2630]

On 7/7/2022 at 9:43 AM, soulknight.9620 said:

You do realise that as a HEAL tempest you are competeng vs hfb/ham/druid. And they can do youre job way better with group stab (hi hfb), barrier (hi ham) and loads of additional utility like root/cc (hi druid). Im not even going to list other thing that "full package" supports do better. 

Same goes for damage alac tempest. Competing vs pHam/qFB is not possible due to their dps/utility compared to tempest. 

 

These are all "common boons". Almost any dps/support can spit loads of them without even trying (aside from vigor which is a bit more complicated). It is not a "unique" thing that makes tempest good. 

The build you have posted has no stab aside from earth OL. So the other 2 OL will be a challenge to pull off. Why arcane precision? And elemental lockdown instead of arcane ressurection? 

is quite different to 

 

cause you can enjoy some niche things in gw2, but that doesnt make them good at all. 

 

Tempest has a lot of problems atm, and it needs to be fixed for tempest to be on par with abovementioned supps. Is it playable? sure, is it "fun"? maybe. Is is optimal? no. 

To the op, Shot threw the heart.........on everything he said about your build. 

But I still have fun with alc tempy as well. With enough concentration it's 100% alc up time with overloads. I like it lots.

Edited July 13, 2022 by Eddbopkins.2630