Quick Catalyst Altered in PvE but not PvE / WvW

[reapex.8546]

• Quote

  Deploy Jade Sphere (Air): The default boon applied by the sphere while in air attunement has been changed from quickness to fury in PvE only. It still provides quickness by default in PvP and WvW.

  I don't understand why this change was needed for PvE.  Was Quick Catalyst in PvE breaking something?

Edited July 11, 2022 by reapex.8546

[the krytan assassin.9235]

The reason it was nerfed was that a very select group of players were able to dish out ~46k dps in perfect circumstances while still being able to provide half of the quickness uptime (so full uptime with 2 Cata's in the party). This was higher then other quickness alternatives so they decided to nerf it. 

 

That being said like 99% of the elementalist community fully disagrees with these nerfs due to the unreliability of this damage capacity, squishiness of the class, high skill cap, lack of other support Boons/healing, lack of cc options, the Awkwardness of the air sphere (over time ticking in small circle) and the lack of a good ranged damage.

 

Basically they nerfed the entire class in order to balance out the top 0.1% speedclear community.

Edited July 8, 2022 by the krytan assassin.9235

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

I think, in game-design, it is better to have a trait for sharing quickness rather than flat in class mechanic with 100% dps traits and gear; so you actually have to chose your role in the group before a fight.  (Yes I know, you can  also stack DPS warriors, FB/DH etc for 100% quickness).
Already the "-10% damage" on trait is a complete joke as "balance". Why not on contrary buff Empowering auras to +3% to widen the gap if that's what they wanted ?

 

But they don't get one thing : catalyst spec (energy + EE + hammer) is not viable without personnal quickness, and nobody want a trait that negate your own dps all the time for 5sec quickness, if you're in range. That's may be why they kept the quickness baseline for PVP/WVW ?

Catalyst has others issues in pvp, but come back to Pve, it is clearly dysfunctional. 
They should have keep a personnal quickness somewhere in traits or augments  (Augment give you quickness, your own auras give you quickness, when you cast jade sphere you earn quickness (like tomes?) ...) then if you want to share it to the group use a trait on Jade Sphere, or Powerful auras in water, etc.

[soulknight.9620]

3 hours ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

They should have keep a personnal quickness somewhere in traits or augments  (Augment give you quickness, your own auras give you quickness, when you cast jade sphere you earn quickness (like tomes?) ...) then if you want to share it to the group use a trait on Jade Sphere, or Powerful auras in water, etc.

Yeah, that would be nice. Playing cata as a dps post patch is a lot clunkier than before. Before the patch i could start off my rotations in air and get that 5 secs of quick to get me going while our quicksupport starts to provide quickness. Now im usually a sad slow cata in first 2-3 secs of fight. 

[Fueki.4753]

They didn't like Elementalist to sometimes perform better than certain favourite Quickness providers, so they got nerfed.

I don't think there is something else to it.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[ArjukKagrim.6049]

Tom correct those false Statements above:

The füll Dps build could reach 46k while providing about 330/% Quickness. Therefore with 3 per subgroub (6 for the RAID, also enabling Aurasharing for even more dps) you could skip the dedicated Quickness Provider and speedclear some Bosses (mainly those that could bebturned into Golems). Aber does Not Like stacking (nor is ist healthy for any Game) and nerfed it.

However, the full catalyst Quickness Variant for providing 100% Quickness was not Players at all by speedrunners (cause it was just mediocre) even before the Patch. Now with the current balance patch the build basically got deleted.

[Sunshine.5014]

2 hours ago, ArjukKagrim.6049 said:

Therefore with 3 per subgroub (6 for the RAID, also enabling Aurasharing for even more dps)

Facepalm... Who uses Water Attunement in DPS build?

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

3 minutes ago, Sunshine.5014 said:

Facepalm... Who uses Water Attunement in DPS build?

 

Those who want 10 EE on allies.

Edited July 8, 2022 by Zhaid Zhem.6508

[ArjukKagrim.6049]

38 minutes ago, Zhaid Zhem.6508 said:

 

Those who want 10 EE on allies.

Exactly this 👆. In 3 dps catas where one takes water for aurashare do more dps than 3 with using the "standard" build due to more EE stacks. 

Imo that ist had design if builds/traits favor stacking of the same class.

 

[reapex.8546]

8 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

They didn't like Elementalist to sometimes perform better than certain favourite Quickness providers, so they got nerfed.

I don't think there is something else to it.

It's just that it wasn't removed in sPvP and WvW.   

I guess they're saying that other quickness providers perform better in WvW and sPvP than PvE. 

[Chyro.1462]

Are there any other popular comps in high-end content that require stacking multiple of the same class? If not, they could just set a rule in the system that parties for high-end content can only have 1 of each elite spec class present. Would encourage variety and avoid such cases where a class mechanic can be 'abused' by having multiple of the same, without punishing a class by nerfs that hurt the 99% of people playing it in any other than this niche situation.

[Sunshine.5014]

7 hours ago, ArjukKagrim.6049 said:

Exactly this 👆. In 3 dps catas where one takes water for aurashare do more dps than 3 with using the "standard" build due to more EE stacks. 

Imo that ist had design if builds/traits favor stacking of the same class.

 

That's a bold claim to make, especially when without aura share, Catalyst already has ok up time of EE. Do you have any video to back up the claim that the DPS lost of trading water is less than the DPS gain fr the other 2 Catalysts?

[Fueki.4753]

6 hours ago, reapex.8546 said:

It's just that it wasn't removed in sPvP and WvW.   

I guess they're saying that other quickness providers perform better in WvW and sPvP than PvE. 

Given that you fight players in WvW and sPvP, I doubt it's likely to pull off that high performance Catalyst, so it didn't outperform their favourites in there. That means, they simply had no reason to "fix" it in those modes.

3 hours ago, Chyro.1462 said:

Are there any other popular comps in high-end content that require stacking multiple of the same class? If not, they could just set a rule in the system that parties for high-end content can only have 1 of each elite spec class present. Would encourage variety and avoid such cases where a class mechanic can be 'abused' by having multiple of the same, without punishing a class by nerfs that hurt the 99% of people playing it in any other than this niche situation.

No matter how you look at it in a realistic way,  they want people to have multiple of their favourite in each composition. Everything they do points towards it. For example, the target cap reduction from 10 to 5 was so that you have two Quickness Firebrands instead of one. Add two Mechanists providing all the "necessary" Alacrity for the squad, four of the ten slots are occupied by favoured elite specializations.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Sporks.4395]

Yea, you can now just stack bladsworn for stupid quickness and dps. So... no difference, just screw ele.. 😛

[reapex.8546]

On 7/9/2022 at 1:21 AM, Fueki.4753 said:

Given that you fight players in WvW and sPvP, I doubt it's likely to pull off that high performance Catalyst, so it didn't outperform their favourites in there. That means, they simply had no reason to "fix" it in those modes.

It's not that hard to generate quickness in a WvW zerg but I can see how it could be difficult to use in spvp.

Edited July 11, 2022 by reapex.8546

[Dadnir.5038]

On 7/9/2022 at 4:28 AM, Sunshine.5014 said:

That's a bold claim to make, especially when without aura share, Catalyst already has ok up time of EE. Do you have any video to back up the claim that the DPS lost of trading water is less than the DPS gain fr the other 2 Catalysts?

What make you think that water traitline is a dps loss exactly? The traitline offer 2 traits that increase your damage by 10% each (one of those even increase these damage by 20% while in water attunement). In a group setting where you don't need to bother with providing boons that's as much as what you'd get from taking fire traitline or arcane traitline.