PLEASE don't listen to Teapot regarding Hammer!

[Mungrul.9358]

Streamers tend to have an outsized influence over development these days, and it's even more annoying when none of them play the profession they're making suggestions for.

With that in mind, in his criticism of the patch notes, Teapot suggests making Hammer a support weapon.

 

This is possibly one of the worst suggestions I have heard, and needs to be slapped down before it can gain any traction.

Hammer should be about extremely high power damage spikes, weakness and control. It should never be about healing people or providing barrier.

We are NOT the blue baby >:E

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Yeah idk, staff flies over the head of many people for a support espec. 

Anyway, hammer doing no dmg in competetive might as well mean there is some basis for a support weapon there kek /s

[Mikali.9651]

Evade on Staggering Blow and instead of push, make it pulls enemies around you.

 

Also a good source of Taunt would be nice so Fierce Blow is actually worth something, Imminent Threat is not enough, unless you lower the cooldown to 30 seconds and give it 2 counts. 

 

Hammer then could be an interesting weapon for tanking. It would apply weakness, do nice defiance bar dmg, do pulls for mobs and even taunt enemies.

 

Oh ye, I would also like it if you actually make Taunt an actual tanking mechanic, and remove Toughness as an aggro mechanic.
GW2 is ready for it. 

 

Edited July 9, 2022 by Mikali.9651

[Grand Marshal.4098]

15 minutes ago, Mikali.9651 said:

Evade on Staggering Blow and instead of push, make it pulls enemies around you.

 

Also a good source of Taunt would be nice so Fierce Blow is actually worth something, Imminent Threat is not enough, unless you lower the cooldown to 30 seconds and give it 2 counts. 

 

Hammer then could be an interesting weapon for tanking. It would apply weakness, do nice defiance bar dmg, do pulls for mobs and even taunt enemies.

 

Oh ye, I would also like it if you actually make Taunt an actual tanking mechanic, and remove Toughness as an aggro mechanic.
GW2 is ready for it. 

 

Jalis got that a bit. 

Warrior getting a couple of Taunt sources and reduced inc dmg from taunted foes (of both types, like 10%) would be pretty sweet. 

[Mikali.9651]

Just now, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Jalis got that a bit. 

Warrior getting a couple of Taunt sources and reduced inc dmg from taunted foes (of both types, like 10%) would be pretty sweet. 

 

yeah it would actually be sweet, especially because Taunt itself doesn't last long, so it could be even used on incoming dmg when your evade skills are on the cooldown, and you are unable to dodge. Yep, I like the idea.

 

Let's make Hammer a tank weapon,  Hammer Spellbreaker could be a really good tank then

[Grand Marshal.4098]

18 minutes ago, Mikali.9651 said:

 

yeah it would actually be sweet, especially because Taunt itself doesn't last long, so it could be even used on incoming dmg when your evade skills are on the cooldown, and you are unable to dodge. Yep, I like the idea.

 

Let's make Hammer a tank weapon,  Hammer Spellbreaker could be a really good tank then

Imo Hammer needs some QoL cover condis. 

Immob for 2 sec on Hamm 3, Hamm 4 pull into vuln 5 stacks, hamm 2 should slow to make hamm 5 easier to land. Weakness should stay in the kit. 

This is from another perspective I don't find myself into often. It's Open World PvE. 

There I enjoy condi iterations of warrior. Celestial Hammer Spellbreaker is a very fun build and such cover condis could help it and the WvW variants for Crowd Control. 

[Mikali.9651]

3 minutes ago, Grand Marshal.4098 said:

Imo Hammer needs some QoL cover condis. 

Immob for 2 sec on Hamm 3, Hamm 4 pull into vuln 5 stacks, hamm 2 should slow to make hamm 5 easier to land. Weakness should stay in the kit. 

This is from another perspective I don't find myself into often. It's Open World PvE. 

There I enjoy condi iterations of warrior. Celestial Hammer Spellbreaker is a very fun build and such cover condis could help it and the WvW variants for Crowd Control. 

oh there is definitely a room for improvement, it is just that we've been so neglected that I even think getting evade and pull on Hamm 4 would be OP...that is how bad we have it.

 

My current most favorite build for open world and story missions is Celestial Berserker 🙂

[Xaylin.1860]

Considering that Warhorn and to some extent Shield (when tanking/sharing Might) already offer support, Mace would probably be a better choice for a slight support rework, not Hammer. Unless ANet decides to move Spellbreaker into a more support focussed direction. Then Daggers could be an option.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

23 minutes ago, Mikali.9651 said:

oh there is definitely a room for improvement, it is just that we've been so neglected that I even think getting evade and pull on Hamm 4 would be OP...that is how bad we have it.

 

My current most favorite build for open world and story missions is Celestial Berserker 🙂

I play a Dire/Trailblazer Zerker in open World and a rabid/rampager core warr. 

[Shinichi Megure.8061]

Agree that hammer should not be a support weapon, other weapon are more suitable for that. Hammer should be a power and cc weapon, it just fails to deliver without buffs.

 

In pvp and wvw roaming the damage is low and the set is realy weak against projectile, stability and blocks that's why i don't run it anymore.

I would suggest some changes to help with problems noted above:

 -Staggering blow: change the skill to a movement skill with an evade

-Hammer shock: orginal + remove stability

-Mighty blow: change the skill to an Aoe, reduce the acitvation time to 1/2 and grant no cooldown on hitting a knocked down target

-Earthshake: change the skill to an Aoe knock down like the orginal earthshaker from gw1

 

 

 

 

Edited July 9, 2022 by Shinichi Megure.8061

[Geoff Fey.1035]

The whole idea of "utility" and "support" weapons is bad. Warrior Hammer should be a viable alternative to Greatsword--not relegated to "CC noodle".

We see that with Guardian & Druid Staves and they're incredibly boring weapons that are only used for 1-2 skills then quickswapped away from. Runner up is Revenant Staff whose only claim to fame is block/condi cleanse/CC and then people immediately swap away because they're useless in combat.

Minimum, all 2-handed weapons should have decent damage options with support/utility being an adder behind it--not the primary focus.

Use literally any profession's Greatsword as a baseline of what a 2-handed weapon should be capable of (decent damage, some utility, and either mobility or crowd control) and apply that to literally every single 2-handed weapon in the game.

Utility skills exist for a reason.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Warrior needs a support MH to pair with warhorn, not a 2 hander like hammer...

[Valisha.8650]

4 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

This is possibly one of the worst suggestions I have heard, and needs to be slapped down before it can gain any traction.

Hammer should be about extremely high power damage spikes, weakness and control. It should never be about healing people or providing barrier.

We are NOT the blue baby >:E

This whole post of yours can be summed up as;

"Don't listen to what that guy says. He's wrong because I say so. Listen to me instead. My idea is right because I say so."

There are exactly 0 reasonable arguments you provide.

[RiyazGuerra.9203]

4 hours ago, Mikali.9651 said:

Oh ye, I would also like it if you actually make Taunt an actual tanking mechanic, and remove Toughness as an aggro mechanic.
GW2 is ready for it. 

Wholeheartedly agree with this.

It unfairly removes a reasonable cost to not having heavy armor or high toughness armor equipped.  If you are squishy, make judicious use of your mobility skills.

Of course once this is done, a taunt with reasonably low cooldown will be needed for warrior or any heavy armor class for that matter, granted that warrior would be the ideal tank due to its higher health pool.

Edited July 9, 2022 by RiyazGuerra.9203
typo

[JTGuevara.9018]

5 hours ago, Mungrul.9358 said:

Streamers tend to have an outsized influence over development these days, and it's even more annoying when none of them play the profession they're making suggestions for.

With that in mind, in his criticism of the patch notes, Teapot suggests making Hammer a support weapon.

 

This is possibly one of the worst suggestions I have heard, and needs to be slapped down before it can gain any traction.

Hammer should be about extremely high power damage spikes, weakness and control. It should never be about healing people or providing barrier.

We are NOT the blue baby >:E

Oh good lord...I knew it...

PSA: Warrior hammer is NOT a support weapon, folks! (It doesn't even have support skills!)

This. THIS is why influencers ruins games. Half the time, they don't know what the you-know-what they're talking about!

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

Guys, relax... Teapot was exasperated by warrior's sorry state and was just spitballing ideas off the top of his head. Maybe he would double down on this idea, but he has yet to do so. His overall message was "warrior needs major help." I think we can all agree on that, right? 

[JTGuevara.9018]

4 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Guys, relax... Teapot was exasperated by warrior's sorry state and was just spitballing ideas off the top of his head. Maybe he would double down on this idea, but he has yet to do so. His overall message was "warrior needs major help." I think we can all agree on that, right? 

No no no. See that's the problem. If you have a platform, you need to use it wisely. Number one, don't say such absurdities regarding hammer! I mean, look at it: it has no support skills lmao! The whole point of warrior hammer is CC.

[Obtena.7952]

So ... it's not unreasonable to think that a weapon with a focus on CC can't provide support. I mean ... let me present to you ... Guardian Hammer. 

I don't know what specific changes Teapot would have suggested, but the hammer itself doesn't actually need to be changed at all for it to be considered a support weapon. One trait change could do that. 

Edited July 9, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

50 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

So ... it's not unreasonable to think that a weapon with a focus on CC can't provide support. I mean ... let me present to you ... Guardian Hammer. 

I don't know what specific changes Teapot would have suggested, but the hammer itself doesn't actually need to be changed at all for it to be considered a support weapon. One trait change could do that. 

Which would be causing Dispelling Force to grant ripped boons in an area 😉

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

52 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

So ... it's not unreasonable to think that a weapon with a focus on CC can't provide support. I mean ... let me present to you ... Guardian Hammer. 

I don't know what specific changes Teapot would have suggested, but the hammer itself doesn't actually need to be changed at all for it to be considered a support weapon. One trait change could do that. 

Truth. Change body blow to : "inflict AoE weakness (3s) and grant barrier to allies (1000 HP) when you CC a foe". Boom. Done. 

[Lucentfir.7430]

5 hours ago, JTGuevara.9018 said:

Oh good lord...I knew it...

PSA: Warrior hammer is NOT a support weapon, folks! (It doesn't even have support skills!)

This. THIS is why influencers ruins games. Half the time, they don't know what the you-know-what they're talking about!

 

6 hours ago, Valisha.8650 said:

This whole post of yours can be summed up as;

"Don't listen to what that guy says. He's wrong because I say so. Listen to me instead. My idea is right because I say so."

There are exactly 0 reasonable arguments you provide.

Oh kitten, it isn't complex issue to fix hammer and weapons like mace,  it requires a bit of polish and to entirely undo a bad blanket change in one mode, and I will bring up , Teapot's claim that not every spec or weapon should or has to be good in every game mode, a weapon like hammer was mainly used in WvW, give it back effectiveness there.  Influencers start to ruin the game when they start to overreach into areas where they're not very experienced or have extensively played with said thing in question, and toss out really weird ideas. As to bring up food for thought, how often do you see Teapot play a class like warrior, compared to any other class like Necro, Guardian, and recently Engi? The man streams for hours upon hours at a time when he's playing.  

[Obtena.7952]

5 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Which would be causing Dispelling Force to grant ripped boons in an area 😉

Yes ... that's and idea

5 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Truth. Change body blow to : "inflict AoE weakness (3s) and grant barrier to allies (1000 HP) when you CC a foe". Boom. Done. 

... and yes, that's an idea too. There are LOTS of ways to make anything supportive without changing that actual thing itself. 

The thing is that warrior already does TONS of this to begin with. So many traits proc something. Double edged sword in a way. in this case, it's an advantage to the class design. Anet would be wise to consider it more often in Warrior case because of the limited number of actionable skills we have access to. 

2 hours ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

Oh kitten, it isn't complex issue to fix hammer and weapons like mace,  it requires a bit of polish and to entirely undo a bad blanket change in one mode, and I will bring up , Teapot's claim that not every spec or weapon should or has to be good in every game mode, a weapon like hammer was mainly used in WvW, give it back effectiveness there.  Influencers start to ruin the game when they start to overreach into areas where they're not very experienced or have extensively played with said thing in question, and toss out really weird ideas. As to bring up food for thought, how often do you see Teapot play a class like warrior, compared to any other class like Necro, Guardian, and recently Engi? The man streams for hours upon hours at a time when he's playing.  

Actaully, for a class like Warrior with access to LOTS of weapons already, he's got a reasonable point. Maybe hammer isn't the right weapon to choose because it already has significant use in WvW ... or maybe adding Hammer being more supportive, even in WvW would make it BETTER. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss someone like Teapot's insight to the game, even if he doesn't play the class directly ... he doesn't play some version of GW2 that excludes warriors and still plays and interacts with people who play warriors as well.  

Here is an interesting though ... why should Anet NOT listen to Teapot ... yet all the forum warriors are screaming and yelling that Anet doesn't listen to them? Like, somehow you have judged his experience in the class to be lacking and excluded? OK ... so now you want Anet to only listen to ... who? As if somehow shouting down certain people who's ideas you may not like makes other people's ideas better? That's not how this works. 

Edited July 10, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Vancho.8750]

5 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Truth. Change body blow to : "inflict AoE weakness (3s) and grant barrier to allies (1000 HP) when you CC a foe". Boom. Done. 

Put doing something something gives x stacks of stability on allies on another trait or Fear me breaks stun on allies and gives 3 stability on allies and tada shout Warrior can contest a slot on guardian in WvW. 

[Lucentfir.7430]

5 hours ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Actaully, for a class like Warrior with access to LOTS of weapons already, he's got a reasonable point. Maybe hammer isn't the right weapon to choose because it already has significant use in WvW ... or maybe adding Hammer being more supportive, even in WvW would make it BETTER. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss someone like Teapot's insight to the game, even if he doesn't play the class directly ... he doesn't play some version of GW2 that excludes warriors and still plays and interacts with people who play warriors as well.  

Here is an interesting though ... why should Anet NOT listen to Teapot ... yet all the forum warriors are screaming and yelling that Anet doesn't listen to them? Like, somehow you have judged his experience in the class to be lacking and excluded? OK ... so now you want Anet to only listen to ... who? As if somehow shouting down certain people who's ideas you may not like makes other people's ideas better? That's not how this works. 

1.Having insight would mean he plays it to some capacity so he would understand the workings and little nuances of the class he suggests changes too. Make no mistake I know Teapot has lots of experience with this game, and he does have good insight on plenty of aspects on the game. It's not so much to dismiss him, but it's mainly to argue this isn't what hammer needs from people who play the warrior in a capacity, or should the discussion of what things and changes be only regulated to people affiliated with Teapot and screw everyone else if you're not apart of it? 

Moving on, it very much depends on the game mode route you're going for when we bring up as -supportive-. If we talk about PVE, changing warrior hammer to be a support weapon is not going to magically make warrior a good support spec in comparison to other support specs you'd bring, even with say barrier or splash healing on CC, desired supports normally offer a plethora of defensive  boons on demand, cleansing, etc,  that warrior really can't hold a candle to, especially now with how horrendously botched the banner update was. IIRC Teapot even mentions this himself in one of the latest videos on the patch that it's going to either need to be reworked from the ground up or have a entire dedicated elite spec to have a good warrior support spec because warrior is designed poorly. 

if we talk the WvW route, Hammer was already a decent functioning weapon that had its uses as a Control/damage weapon until the CC damage change which completely made it really bad since everything is drowning in stability and supportive damage mitigation, boons. waves of random healing in medium-large scale. So instead of actually fixing what made it bad in the first place and maybe polishing it up more we're going to dance around not actually fixing it but push it more towards a support weapon role it never needed to be? 
-- 

2. I think it's been very well established that Anet is deaf to everyone, except maybe big name/influencers like Teapot and more(But judging by the leaked discord they tend to be brick walls there too sometimes.) or until everything is on fire. Then there's you trying to shove motives into my mouth, and say I'm trying to judge his experience and  exclude him, please. People are allowed to make suggestions good or bad but that does not mean you cannot be challenged on said suggestions. All the forum warriors screaming and yelling is built up frustration with all the stuff that remains unresolved over the course of the years and still no mention or notion of  fixing legit greviences regarding the class(300s ICD, utterly Overnerfed Utlities, outdated design etc), and TO MAKE MATTERS WORSE the big patch that was supposed to be big ended up making the class worse in another aspect and nothing really getting fixed, overall net disappointing.

As for who I want Anet to listen to? What I want is for Anet to not just listen to a singular person with a clique of streamer friends, but to include the community a ear and voice at the table, be it with some sort of class council  with a Anet approved community application for feedback or just something on that line for some actual constructive criticism, because there are a plenty of players I've seen that are very passionate about the game and its classes and it's upsetting to see passion like that with some good suggestions getting lost to the aether amongst a sea of posts, and never get seen because lol the forums.  I don't want to hear anything from you about me using experience as a way to exclude people,  we still have this conversation despite you never daring  to show your experience or gameplay with a class, while having these never ending contrarian discussions you like to have and still take them just as is, or your word for it, because like it or not, it's good discussion to have sometimes. 

Edited July 10, 2022 by Lucentfir.7430

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

1.Having insight would mean he plays it to some capacity so he would understand the workings and little nuances of the class he suggests changes too. Make no mistake I know Teapot has lots of experience with this game, and he does have good insight on plenty of aspects on the game. It's not so much to dismiss him, but it's mainly to argue this isn't what hammer needs from people who play the warrior in a capacity, or should the discussion of what things and changes be only regulated to people affiliated with Teapot and screw everyone else if you're not apart of it? 

So you are absolutely certain he doesn't have this?

1 minute ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

Moving on, it very much depends on the game mode route you're going for when we bring up as -supportive-. If we talk about PVE, changing warrior hammer to be a support weapon is not going to magically make warrior a good support spec in comparison to other support specs you'd bring, even with say barrier or splash healing on CC, desired supports normally offer a plethora of defensive  boons on demand, cleansing, etc,  that warrior really can't hold a candle to other class, especially now with how horrendously botched the banner update. IIRC Teapot even mentions this himself in one of the latest videos on the patch that it's going to either need to be reworked from the ground up or have a entire dedicated elite spec to have a good warrior support spec because warrior is designed poorly. 

Sure ... but thats all just in the details of how it would be implemented,  that we don't have even if it might

1 minute ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

if we talk the WvW route, Hammer was already a decent functioning weapon that had its uses as a Control/damage weapon until the CC damage change which completely made it really bad since everything is drowning in stability and supportive damage mitigation, boons. waves of random healing in medium-large scale. So instead of actually fixing what made it bad in the first place and maybe polishing it up more we're going to dance around not actually fixing it but push it more towards a support weapon role it never needed to be? 
-- 

2. I think it's been very well established that Anet is deaf to everyone, except maybe big name/influencers like Teapot and more(But judging by the leaked discord they tend to be brick walls there too sometimes.) or until everything is on fire. Then there's you trying to shove motives into my mouth, and say I'm trying to judge his experience and  exclude him, please. People are allowed to make suggestions good or bad but that does not mean you cannot be challenged on said suggestions. All the forum warriors screaming and yelling is built up frustration with all the stuff that remains unresolved over the course of the years and still no mention or notion of  fixing legit greviences regarding the class(300s ICD, utterly Overnerfed Utlities, outdated design etc), and TO MAKE MATTERS WORSE the big patch that was supposed to be big ended up making the class worse in another aspect and nothing really getting fixed, overall net disappointing.

As for who I want Anet to listen to? What I want is for Anet to not just listen to a singular person with a clique of streamer friends, but to include the community a ear and voice at the table, be it with some sort of class council  with a community application for feedback or just something on that line for some actual constructive criticism, because there are a plenty of players I've seen that are very passionate about the game and its classes and it's upsetting to see passion like that some with good suggestions getting lost to the aether amongst a sea of posts, and  never get seen because lol the forums.  I don't want to hear anything from you about me using experience as a way to exclude people,  we still have this conversation despite you never daring  to show your experience or gameplay with a class, while having these never ending contrarian discussions you like to have and still take them just as is, or your word for it, because like it or not, it's good discussion to have sometimes. 

And how do we know anet is only listening to this singular person?9