Season One Should Reward Mastery Points

[Randin.5701]

Something that just occurred to me today. When it comes to collecting mastery points for the different categories, there are some categories where it requires almost no special effort to get enough points (PoF being the big one), and then there's the ones where you find yourself pouring over the achievement list desperately trying to find a point that you think you can manage. Central Tyria is generally one of the latter. Now that Season One is being brought back, this would be a great opportunity to add a few more simple Central Tyria points to the game. Even just adding one point for completing each chapter would give players a little more breathing room when they're trying to finish those masteries.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

Season 1 is the only Story Journal content that has no mastery points.

Personal Story rewards 8 mastery points, one per chapter.

Season 2 rewards 8, one per episode.

Heart of Thorns onward rewards 1 mastery point per story step with an instance.

Season 1 has 0.

[Linken.6345]

8 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Season 1 is the only Story Journal content that has no mastery points.

Personal Story rewards 8 mastery points, one per chapter.

Season 2 rewards 8, one per episode.

Heart of Thorns onward rewards 1 mastery point per story step with an instance.

Season 1 has 0.

Well there is 8+8 for achievements in season 2.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

27 minutes ago, Linken.6345 said:

Well there is 8+8 for achievements in season 2.

This is a bit of a special case though as LWS2 has the hardest achivements in the game, so much that they had to add a Challenge Mote to some of the instances due to initial frustrations.

 

Unlike later seasons which became easier (except Fancy Flying and a few JPs), many players only manage a few of them before giving up., so I wouldn't count them as a good supply of Mastery Points.

Edited July 15, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Linken.6345]

1 hour ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

This is a bit of a special case though as LWS2 has the hardest achivements in the game, so much that they had to add a Challenge Mote to some of the instances due to initial frustrations.

 

Unlike later seasons which became easier (except Fancy Flying and a few JPs), many players only manage a few of them before giving up., so I wouldn't count them as a good supply of Mastery Points.

I did those with core only classes so with all the power creep and atleat 1 class that can crap out aegis they should not be to hard anymore.

[squeegee.4320]

I always see people complain about how hard is is to get core mastery points for the mastery tracks, but I don't think I actually had to work to get any. There's roughly double the number available as are needed.

IBS masteries are the real annoying ones. A quarter of the available points are basically "spend half your life in Drizzlewood".

[Randin.5701]

26 minutes ago, narwhalsbend.7059 said:

I always see people complain about how hard is is to get core mastery points for the mastery tracks, but I don't think I actually had to work to get any. There's roughly double the number available as are needed.

IBS masteries are the real annoying ones. A quarter of the available points are basically "spend half your life in Drizzlewood".

Oh yeah, IBS is absolutely the worst, no arguments there. But, particularly if you don't regularly run fractals, I'd argue that Central Tyria isn't terribly far behind.

 

Between the two, I'd happily take more IBS points, but it'd be a lot harder to justify having them attached to Season 1 than doing a few more Central Tyria points there, so Central Tyria it is.

[Labjax.2465]

I agree. I can't see why it shouldn't and doing so would be more consistent with how the game is in other areas. If restoring LW1 is supposed to be all about releasing for steam, consistency matters in the experience.

[Endaris.1452]

Core Tyria + LS2 only needs 49 mastery points and there are 83 available.
10 are trivially easy to get just by playing through T1 fractals, some of them with a very simple condition attached (bow to the giant, don't fall into lava...). I did leave out the ones that I consider non-trivial to do.
9 you get for playing through story for the first time
9 are interactable mastery points on the map
3 for Tequatl, Karka Queen and Queen Chrii'kkt IV(lol)

2 for Hidden Garden and Retrospective Runaround

8 for completing LS2

Where are we with that? Oh right...41. All of these are either trivially easy or I would expect them to be completed by someone before they are even geared in fully ascended gear. Now you're missing only 8. You know what is funny? According to wiki the only legendary weapons that actually require the final mastery of legendary crafting are HOPE, Nevermore, Astralaria and Chuka and Champawat. All others do not.

And there are still some that are relatively easy to acquire in Silverwastes legendary bosses (getting at least 2-3 can be done with relatively little grind) and TT (biggest issue is finding a squad)

Now I'm not generally saying that adding more core mastery points is a bad idea, in fact I think it's a good one.

But I just find it thoroughly confusing that you consider Core Tyria to be that difficult to finish when a sufficient amount of these mastery points either fall into your lap on story playthrough (can be expected one from every new account) or are acquirable via a very limited time effort.

 

[Labjax.2465]

9 minutes ago, Endaris.1452 said:

Core Tyria + LS2 only needs 49 mastery points and there are 83 available.
10 are trivially easy to get just by playing through T1 fractals, some of them with a very simple condition attached (bow to the giant, don't fall into lava...). I did leave out the ones that I consider non-trivial to do.
9 you get for playing through story for the first time
9 are interactable mastery points on the map
3 for Tequatl, Karka Queen and Queen Chrii'kkt IV(lol)

2 for Hidden Garden and Retrospective Runaround

8 for completing LS2

Where are we with that? Oh right...41. All of these are either trivially easy or I would expect them to be completed by someone before they are even geared in fully ascended gear. Now you're missing only 8. You know what is funny? According to wiki the only legendary weapons that actually require the final mastery of legendary crafting are HOPE, Nevermore, Astralaria and Chuka and Champawat. All others do not.

And there are still some that are relatively easy to acquire in Silverwastes legendary bosses (getting at least 2-3 can be done with relatively little grind) and TT (biggest issue is finding a squad)

Now I'm not generally saying that adding more core mastery points is a bad idea, in fact I think it's a good one.

But I just find it thoroughly confusing that you consider Core Tyria to be that difficult to finish when a sufficient amount of these mastery points either fall into your lap on story playthrough (can be expected one from every new account) or are acquirable via a very limited time effort.

 

I find it confusing that you think 41/49 being relatively easy is some kind of gotcha. It's often the case with this game's mastery system that some of the last ones are the hardest to track down.

I also think including fractal points is kind of pushing it as "easy" goes. Not everyone has an easy time getting into instanced PvE content in this game, or they just want to avoid it for whatever reason.

[Linken.6345]

33 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

I find it confusing that you think 41/49 being relatively easy is some kind of gotcha. It's often the case with this game's mastery system that some of the last ones are the hardest to track down.

I also think including fractal points is kind of pushing it as "easy" goes. Not everyone has an easy time getting into instanced PvE content in this game, or they just want to avoid it for whatever reason.

t1 fractals is open world level of difficulty.

[Endaris.1452]

5 minutes ago, Labjax.2465 said:

It's often the case with this game's mastery system that some of the last ones are the hardest to track down.

I agree, that is why I mentioned why in this case, 41/49 is absolutely sufficient for a percentile of players that I'll just claim to be easily above 99%.

I also think saying fractal points are hard is pushing it. The majority of them is "just clear this fractal once on any scale". I'm in EU, it is 3am at night, there is an open LFG for scale 10 Molten Boss. Join, say "Hi, I'm new to this what's going on" and in there you go. Granted, one of the non-guaranteed mastery points in that case but this is very far from end game content and much easier than getting your dungeon explorations done which you also need to do to craft gen1 legys by the way. And well, finishing T1 fractals solo is actually not all that difficult either.

As mentioned, I generally agree with adding more mastery points. Personally I think it will never happen on LS1 story, simply because I'm sure Anet doesn't want you to unlock all masteries just by playing story + interacting with mastery points which could be getting close. Not sure how many episodes LS1 has but just main story, LS2 and interacts are already 26 points which is more than half. LS1 would extend that what...34? Mastery points are an incentive to explore more content and aside from some super absurd mastery points (Emperor's new wardrobe, Golden Fractal Weapons) the existing mastery points do exactly that. If there is one thing that really makes no sense at all then it is that Dungeon Master doesn't award a mastery point (anet,  come on?!). I think it would also be fair to add a meta achievement for the region explorer achievements that awards a point. Something along those lines.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

9 hours ago, Linken.6345 said:

Well there is 8+8 for achievements in season 2.

The extra 8 are from completing the meta achievements, every release after has such mastery points as well, even in some cases for core Tyria, and again, Season 1 doesn't.

 

4 hours ago, Endaris.1452 said:

Core Tyria + LS2 only needs 49 mastery points and there are 83 available.
10 are trivially easy to get just by playing through T1 fractals, some of them with a very simple condition attached (bow to the giant, don't fall into lava...). I did leave out the ones that I consider non-trivial to do.
9 you get for playing through story for the first time
9 are interactable mastery points on the map
3 for Tequatl, Karka Queen and Queen Chrii'kkt IV(lol)

2 for Hidden Garden and Retrospective Runaround

8 for completing LS2

Where are we with that? Oh right...41. All of these are either trivially easy or I would expect them to be completed by someone before they are even geared in fully ascended gear. Now you're missing only 8. You know what is funny? According to wiki the only legendary weapons that actually require the final mastery of legendary crafting are HOPE, Nevermore, Astralaria and Chuka and Champawat. All others do not.

And there are still some that are relatively easy to acquire in Silverwastes legendary bosses (getting at least 2-3 can be done with relatively little grind) and TT (biggest issue is finding a squad)

Now I'm not generally saying that adding more core mastery points is a bad idea, in fact I think it's a good one.

But I just find it thoroughly confusing that you consider Core Tyria to be that difficult to finish when a sufficient amount of these mastery points either fall into your lap on story playthrough (can be expected one from every new account) or are acquirable via a very limited time effort.

Personally speaking, this isn't about "core masteries are hard to get" just that it's oddly inconsistent.

That said, about your "trivial to get":

• The 8 of Season 2 (16 really) are behind a separate paywall that's only about story alone from the actual mastery system, so for some people (those that don't care for wasting money on "just story", esp. when they can party with others to experience it) that may be -16.
• There's casuals out there who don't even touch Fractals because it's group content, even T1. So that's -10.
• The RNG Silverwastes legendary bosses are always complained about because there's no way to predictably get them done; getting them done "with relatively little grind" is pure chance. I've seen cases of people camping a fort for hours on multiple days each without ever getting that boss, and always being to slow to get other bosses if they're not camping those forts (esp. now with mounts and power creep).
• TT requiring coordination and squad also cuts a lot of casuals out of it, even if it is "relatively easy" to just join in at a time a guild organizes regular runs.

Now I'm not saying "make everything super easy", but it is apparent to me how people can say they struggle to get the last dozen points needed for that 49. Especially to max out to get rid of that filled bar, even if they aren't going to craft HOPE, Nevermore, Astralaria, and C&C.

Edited July 16, 2022 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Endaris.1452]

2 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Especially to max out to get rid of that filled bar, even if they aren't going to craft HOPE, Nevermore, Astralaria, and C&C.

As far as I know experience keeps accumulating in a separate hidden bar if the mastery XP bar is filled without further masteries to progress so they are not actually going to miss out on spirit shards or anything of the like meaning that trying to complete it when it has no functionality for you is just for your own OCD.

 

And I'm tired of repeating that the fractal argument is silly, that they can be solo'd, that this is an MMO and that your hypothetical protagonist apparently has a grand total of 0 friends that would go into T1 fractals with them when even 1 extra person is probably more than needed.

There are 83 mastery points meaning there is a lot to choose from. Spoons, karka hunt, transfer chaser, map completion, dungeon stories.

LS2 should honestly just be made free as baseline as a package with HoT, meaning that all paid accounts have automatic access but F2P don't. Personally I started playing when LS2 EP7 got realeased and I bought the other 6 with gold2gems but to be fair, the exchange rate was a good deal better back in the day as well (even though gold was also harder to farm).
Despite everything you say, to me it does sound you want to make everything super easy, cause story unlocks are basically just...free. And you go through a lot of effort making easy mastery points with <30min of effort sound like they're impossible to acquire.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

If some players won't touch Fractals, why do they need to fill the Fractal Mastery Track?  If they won't craft those certain Legendary Weapons, why do they need Legendary Crafting Mastery Track filled?  Etc., etc.

[Labjax.2465]

2 hours ago, Endaris.1452 said:

And I'm tired of repeating that the fractal argument is silly, that they can be solo'd, that this is an MMO and that your hypothetical protagonist apparently has a grand total of 0 friends that would go into T1 fractals with them when even 1 extra person is probably more than needed.

I've never stepped foot in a fractal. I mostly play this game solo-centric so it's easier for me to quit if my availability changes or I just tire of the game or whatever. I'm sure I could find a guild doing them if I wanted to and work my way up to t4 even. But it's one of the last things I ever want to do in this game, at this point in my life, is commit to a guild/group.

In most aspects of the game, this doesn't hinder me, with a few exceptions. Like HoT being a middle finger to people like me back in the day was a big part of why I left back then and only returned this year. Thankfully, it's easier to navigate solo now.

But my life story isn't really the point. The point is there are reasons that fractal mastery points are harder to get than you'd think for some people. And in many ways, HoT notwithstanding, this game has historically catered to and attracted people like me who just want to do our own thing, play "alone together" in open world or WvW or whatever, and then log out when we're done with it all.

For some people, it's even worse. Some people play games like this precisely because they have bad anxiety or other like issues and it allows them to hang out with others without needing to explicitly say anything.

Hard in this case is somewhat relative, I think is what I'm trying to get at here. And to understand why requires understanding a significant part of who this game's demographic is.

[Valisha.8650]

I agree, one mastery point per episode would be good.

[Endaris.1452]

10 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

I'm sure I could find a guild doing them if I wanted to and work my way up to t4 even.

The point is you don't need to find a guild or work your way up to T4. You only have to do some fractals on T1 once. It is a one-time investment of a comparatively insignificant amount of time. You don't have to commit to any sort of community to get them done. You can even solo most of them with some effort if you're willing to take significantly longer.

I don't think it is too tall an order to expect people to play with other people once in a while and you probably do it all the time in non-committing ways, in meta events, world bosses and even join squads to join maps or see commander calls. Joining or opening a fractal LFG for T1 is not significantly different. You said it yourself, you have never stepped foot in fractals. Did you even try it though?

 

Last but not least, as mentioned: If you don't need fractals, you don't need mastery points for fractal masteries.

Edited July 16, 2022 by Endaris.1452