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The Truth About Bladesworn in PvP


CalmTheStorm.2364

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3 hours ago, Hotride.2187 said:

yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

But wasn't it already S ranked in a previous video, before the last shouts buff (but after the previous shouts buff). Or was it S ranked before the last 2 shout buffs... I forget.

I recall that Teapot had ranked it as "A+ tier" for Ranked and "B tier"  for tourneys (for whatever that's worth). 

 

I don't particularly care about tier lists; they are just one person's opinion, after all. I put much more stock into hard facts.

 

Here are a couple of key facts:

1) Warrior has been absent/nearly absent from high level tournament play for MONTHS, including at least 6 months leading up to EoD and all the MATs since EoD dropped... Until this most recent tourney this past weekend.

 

2) Bladesworn was featured on most of the teams in high level play (quarterfinals and on), including the team that ultimately won.

 

This is a significant departure from Warrior's typical irrelevance in high level PvP play. Time will tell if this was just a "flavor of the month" thing or if BS has truly earned itself a place in the meta. But, for one month, at least, BS saw play at the very highest levels of competition... And performed well. 

 

Regardless of your opinions on BS or the topic at hand, I recommend watching the video I linked above. There are some highly entertaining matches! One of the better MATs I've watched. 

Edited by CalmTheStorm.2364
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1 hour ago, wondermuffin.9680 said:

I had Vaans in my team the other day, one of the best warriors in the game, probably, and he (she?) was playing bladesworn and was 1v1ing some gold 3 guy for a WHILE. So, if Vaans who has Best of the Best and God of the Arena titles takes THAT long to win against someone far below their rank on bladesworn, maybe it's not THAT good. 

Are you new to gw2 pvp?

 

There are SO many builds that can stay alive almost indefinitely in 1v1s(including bladesworn) unless they go up against a specific counter build or are 1vXed.

Not being able to kill something quickly in a 1v1 isn't exactly a great way to determine how "good" a specific build is.

Its also no secret that bladesworn lacks the ability to 100-0 someone quickly (compared to the current bursty builds), especially if the opponent has projectile hate.

Its strength is its ability to sustain itself in long fights while still offering a steady and respectable amount of damage and CC/support

Its not a +1 roamer

Edited by Kayberz.5346
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bladesworn played in mAT

 

only because damage shaved enough that

this OP healing number is making bladesworn hard to kill.

that's it.

and reason why a useless tank is being played, because teams are stacking roamers, most other builds will get farmed without teammates around. bladesworn being bad at everything is ok at staying alive alone because of pure OP healing numbers.

and team full of roamers need some one to cap points.

 

again, the OP number is not coming from reactive gameplay, but constantly spamming shouts, which is basically 0 reactive gameplay and no counter play. which means it will get shaved so fast and the moment it is shaved, the build will completely get destroyed to nothingness. because it does nothing else like all other warrior builds

 

but again, anet won't shave this garbage, because all they need to do is shave thief so team stop stacking roamers and people can start taking rev/guard/necro again and warrior will be automatically out of meta.

and they know that the moment they shave healing, the spec is trash, but we will see, maybe they will nerf after this one mAT.

 

again, warrior played in mAT only because brain dead sustain is buffed so hard with nothing much else. only being a tank bot. while DE also being new, gets all the spotlights.

because warrior never ever able to make plays, just existing being a tank bot in mAT, because teams are full of roamers.

 

Edited by Lighter.5631
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sooner or later they gonna nerf the healing anyway, as they nerfed a lot of the damage. and now BsW is super hard to kill, the moment healing is shaved, this build will be gone to trash bag, and people will still play meta like guard/thief/rev/necro/ele and maybe engi and warrior will be useless for the next 2 years, until they nerf enough damage again and buff enough warrior healing and warrior will be the tank bot for another few months and cycle repeats

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Daring dragon is actually nice tbh, being able to use dragon trigger 2 for mobility is nice because it resets dragon stance so even if you miss you can still do something.

And it allows stability spam because daring dragon = no ICD on stability when entering dragon trigger, which borderline allows BsW to compete with other classes that have annoying evade/blind spam/evade frame eating dragon hunter traps.

With daring dragon, you only care about how many dodges/invulns you've baited, you don't have to count the stun breaks and depend on stun lock.

 

It IS spamming playstyle to be honest, hence BsW isn't really Warrior once people figure out how Daring Dragon works. 

 


Sadly it will probably get nerfed, I would say that I'd rather play the 2015 Warrior where landing big hits feels good. But I am also compelled to say enjoy it while BsW lasts because of ANET's historical incompetence.

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On 7/26/2022 at 11:28 AM, Lighter.5631 said:

the OP number is not coming from reactive gameplay, but constantly spamming shouts, which is basically 0 reactive gameplay and no counter play.

 


the moment they shave healing, the spec is trash.

This.

I'm in a weird spot about this. The forums are baffling.  Despite all the rage in the forums across all the pvp-oriented pages, people are willing to write posts about how class X facetanks and how class Y is unkillable, and about how gameplay should be more reactive/reward responding to telegraphs, but are completely silent at bladesworn literally facetanking through bursts.

I don't understand. If it was acceptable for warrior to facetank bursts, why did we need to nerf healsworn, healing signet, berserker toughness, rousing resilience, endure pain/defy pain, etc etc.

If it wasn't acceptable, why are people satisfied with what is essentially a more passive warrior now?

It's -so- strange. It's almost like people can't adequately assess what is reactive gameplay and what is passive gameplay. Why would people advocate for nerfing the less spammy, more deliberate warrior classes, and be fine with a spec that just presses buttons off cooldown to outheal damage?

Don't get me wrong, this isn't like... knocking @CalmTheStorm.2364 for his enjoyment of the class or anything, and I'm not advocating for nerfs. I'm just...pointing out this weird shift in perception.

 As much as I chafe at bladesworn, I want it to succeed. It's just kind of embittering to see it met with such acceptance in its current state when its sustain is literally instant casting shouts to outheal damage (which was unacceptable on healsworn for some reason). We were doing that with more counterplay and less passivity before and people were -fuming- about it, claiming it to be too passive and uncounterable, but now it's just fine?  Why's it fine now? Why'd all the other sustain have to get nerfed if "press x to sustain" was at any point going to be fine for warrior?

That being said, It's not going to survive any nerfs to shouts without some other kind of rework. 

Edited by Azure The Heartless.3261
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@Azure The Heartless.3261 well people seem to love to play easy builds. (Actually the whole meta is the most noob friendly one ever thx to builds like Deadeye/bladesworn/harbringer/specter and souch; all of them are playing litterly like run and hit on range or been carried by low cd no tell near instant ccs or just shoutspam.... it is like all of them get their own too broken easy to use mechanics xd)

 

Meanwhile builds that might need at least somewhat experience, skill, good timed bursts get more and more nerfed.

 

In the end all that are actually playable are high dmg plus a bit more tanky EoD specs; willbender is just like thief or rev but with more aegis Blocks and ports/harbringer is just like a chrono but with weakness spam plus low CD gracity well and a elite elexier that could oneshot ya out of nowhere when you get no condi cleanes left/ specter is just simply a Port spamy, 3 range skill spamy thief with extra mutch life thx to shroud (this actually crys build carry to me lel)/ mechanist is actually spam rifle 1 while let also deal your mechanist many dmg so you do like 3k dps per sec on targed (just run build)/ untamed is able to Port in deal 25k dmg in 2 secs (this kills most classes tho) on a fair low cd for that comb and is also able to just keep range to keep dmg on targed/ catalyst is like core ele but with more burst and good played perma stabi/ vindicator does somewhat good dmg but could also spam evade skills with some ports and a decent block ability (staff 4/gs 4)

 

Idk if i miss a EoD spec now but i gues you see what i mean xd. They are just simply Power creep classes that spaming 1-2 broken things but arent punished in anyway for using them. (In other words there are not realy some traitoffs) Meanwhile (im just warr Main thats why i use warr specs here) there are things like spellbraker (just only adrenalin 1 burst abilitys for the fact u use fullcounter) and Berserker (no burst skill out of the Berserker mode/ -300 thoughness while your in the Berserker mode) that are just litterly like hard punished for abuse their e-specs. I gues when it comes to bladesworn there are some "traitoffs" simply by the fact that its burst skill is now a self root skill. However this is compensate thx to shout spam what is simply selfbuff + self heal in one ability..... on 3 abilitys xd. 

 

Oke now i dont know what i even want to say to you anymore buut i think you will see my point and why i think they should finaly punish EoD specs just for the health of the game xd!

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6 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

This.

I'm in a weird spot about this. The forums are baffling.  Despite all the rage in the forums across all the pvp-oriented pages, people are willing to write posts about how class X facetanks and how class Y is unkillable, and about how gameplay should be more reactive/reward responding to telegraphs, but are completely silent at bladesworn literally facetanking through bursts.

I don't understand. If it was acceptable for warrior to facetank bursts, why did we need to nerf healsworn, healing signet, berserker toughness, rousing resilience, endure pain/defy pain, etc etc.

If it wasn't acceptable, why are people satisfied with what is essentially a more passive warrior now?

It's -so- strange. It's almost like people can't adequately assess what is reactive gameplay and what is passive gameplay. Why would people advocate for nerfing the less spammy, more deliberate warrior classes, and be fine with a spec that just presses buttons off cooldown to outheal damage?

Don't get me wrong, this isn't like... knocking @CalmTheStorm.2364 for his enjoyment of the class or anything, and I'm not advocating for nerfs. I'm just...pointing out this weird shift in perception.

 As much as I chafe at bladesworn, I want it to succeed. It's just kind of embittering to see it met with such acceptance in its current state when its sustain is literally instant casting shouts to outheal damage (which was unacceptable on healsworn for some reason). We were doing that with more counterplay and less passivity before and people were -fuming- about it, claiming it to be too passive and uncounterable, but now it's just fine?  Why's it fine now? Why'd all the other sustain have to get nerfed if "press x to sustain" was at any point going to be fine for warrior?

That being said, It's not going to survive any nerfs to shouts without some other kind of rework. 

Good observations. A few thoughts:

 

1) I think the biggest factor is ANets change in paradigm. They're on record saying that they want to bring other support options up to the level of support guard, and then they identified warrior as a profession (along with tempest) that they wanted to boost into the support spot, so they started buffing shouts to try to promote support warrior. This of course also boosted BS.

 

2) ANet seems highly committed to ensuring that the EOD specs are high performing (see: massive buffs to WB/radiance after release, or their failure to sufficiently nerf Harbinger, etc.). The same is true for BS. BS just sucked (or was seen to suck) early after EoD dropped, so ANet kept buffing it, either directly (recent changes to dragon spike mine, overcharged cartridges, etc) or indirectly through shouts.

 

3) A big change in the community's perception is twofold. The first is simple familiarity. The longer you sit with something, the more its existence becomes commonplace, "that's just the way things are" kind of view point. The longer people have to play with/against BS, the more they get used to it, and the more they accept it.

 

4) the second big change in community perception is that people like to win, and BS wins (at least more than core, SpB, and Berserker atm).  The more you play it, the more you get used to its clunky play style and the more you learn to make it work/get results. It's actually not the easiest thing to play well...

 

Also, I would argue that BS's healing isn't "passive"; it's highly active and reactive. BS is actually pretty glassy and gets bursted down easily, so you need to steward your heals/blocks/dodges to deal with that.

 

Also remember that healing is the only defensive tool ANet has deigned to give us. Other classes get high prot/resolution up time or double health bars or frequent stealth or invuln or... You get the idea. I'm all for Warrior getting more tools (maybe banners will help? Although notice how they still avoided giving War protection even on support tools...), but until then... We just gotta leverage what little we have. 

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9 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

The forums are baffling.  Despite all the rage in the forums across all the pvp-oriented pages, people are willing to write posts about how class X facetanks and how class Y is unkillable, and about how gameplay should be more reactive/reward responding to telegraphs, but are completely silent at bladesworn literally facetanking through bursts.

I don't understand. If it was acceptable for warrior to facetank bursts, why did we need to nerf healsworn, healing signet, berserker toughness, rousing resilience, endure pain/defy pain, etc etc.

Pretty sure there were complaints before the patches that doubled down on the shout healing?

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On 7/29/2022 at 4:01 AM, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

This.

I'm in a weird spot about this. The forums are baffling.  Despite all the rage in the forums across all the pvp-oriented pages, people are willing to write posts about how class X facetanks and how class Y is unkillable, and about how gameplay should be more reactive/reward responding to telegraphs, but are completely silent at bladesworn literally facetanking through bursts.

I don't understand. If it was acceptable for warrior to facetank bursts, why did we need to nerf healsworn, healing signet, berserker toughness, rousing resilience, endure pain/defy pain, etc etc.

If it wasn't acceptable, why are people satisfied with what is essentially a more passive warrior now?

It's -so- strange. It's almost like people can't adequately assess what is reactive gameplay and what is passive gameplay. Why would people advocate for nerfing the less spammy, more deliberate warrior classes, and be fine with a spec that just presses buttons off cooldown to outheal damage?

Don't get me wrong, this isn't like... knocking @CalmTheStorm.2364 for his enjoyment of the class or anything, and I'm not advocating for nerfs. I'm just...pointing out this weird shift in perception.

 As much as I chafe at bladesworn, I want it to succeed. It's just kind of embittering to see it met with such acceptance in its current state when its sustain is literally instant casting shouts to outheal damage (which was unacceptable on healsworn for some reason). We were doing that with more counterplay and less passivity before and people were -fuming- about it, claiming it to be too passive and uncounterable, but now it's just fine?  Why's it fine now? Why'd all the other sustain have to get nerfed if "press x to sustain" was at any point going to be fine for warrior?

That being said, It's not going to survive any nerfs to shouts without some other kind of rework. 

 

people saying nothing generally because warrior is garbage at pretty much everything else. while they are obsessed with the more op classes, but now after multiple damage nerfs.

 

bladesworn sustain is going to be more noticeable., specially after it's played in mAT, people will be picking up.

 

i can already imagine lower tier matches stacking 2 bladesworn per team and people can not do a thing about it and forum be flooded with complains, as bladesworn is pretty much incredibly easy to pick up.

 

it's going to happen within maybe 1 or 2 months, even if they nerfed thief and pushed bladesworn out of mAT meta.

unless they also nerf bladesworn healing after this mAT(very likely), but then this spec will be rendered to nothing. 

i'm interested in how they choose.

 

or they could also nerf bladesworn damage instead of healing, but that would also make bladeswon useless lol on top of making it even more unbearable to play.

Edited by Lighter.5631
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On 7/19/2022 at 3:32 PM, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

 

 

This is the build I've been using:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKgAc6llyuYYsQmLOUTtxSA-zZoPjelAZsAMxA

 

 

 

 

 

I noticed you slotted Forceful Greatsword - from what small research I have done (returning player, all elite specs are new to me, I may be misinformed) the Gunsaber does not benefit from that trait, as the game does not treat it as an actual weapon, but something more akin to an engineer kit. 

 

This is from march so idk if changes have been made since:

 

 

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3 minutes ago, MATIC.9542 said:

 

 

I noticed you slotted Forceful Greatsword - from what small research I have done (returning player, all elite specs are new to me, I may be misinformed) the Gunsaber does not benefit from that trait, as the game does not treat it as an actual weapon, but something more akin to an engineer kit. 

 

This is from march so idk if changes have been made since:

 

 

With the trait 50% of all critical hits will generate might irrespective of weapon used. That benefit is doubled if a greatsword is equipped.

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51 minutes ago, MATIC.9542 said:

 

 

I noticed you slotted Forceful Greatsword - from what small research I have done (returning player, all elite specs are new to me, I may be misinformed) the Gunsaber does not benefit from that trait, as the game does not treat it as an actual weapon, but something more akin to an engineer kit. 

 

This is from march so idk if changes have been made since:

 

 

@Lan Deathrider.5910is spot on; I picked it because a) the extra power (to help make up for taking an assassin amulet), and b) because this build has 95% crit chance, I will be generating 1 stack of might approx every other hit. That further helps make up for the lack of power and fuels my sustain via Might Makes Right. 

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