You should do this more often Anet, in fact..

[semak.7481]

1 hour ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Can we get this retroactively applied to engi shield? 

Mesmer would like to have a word with chronomancer first.

They had this problem with especs since their first expansion. Its probably wouldn't lead to this mess if they would prefer to set core in stone and adjust power level of certain elite spec through espec traits/weapons balancing and may be sometimes split traits, but they know it better apparently

Edited July 23, 2022 by semak.7481

[Kuma.1503]

29 minutes ago, semak.7481 said:

Mesmer would like to have a word with chronomancer first.

They had this problem with especs since their first expansion. Its probably wouldn't lead to this mess if they would prefer to set core in stone and adjust power level of certain elite spec through espec traits/weapons balancing and may be sometimes split traits, but they know it better apparently

Don't care who gets it first so long as they get around to it. 

[semak.7481]

2 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Don't care who gets it first so long as they get around to it. 

Spoiler:

Spoiler

They wont

 

Edited July 23, 2022 by semak.7481

[Shao.7236]

1 hour ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Don't care who gets it first so long as they get around to it. 

That's the point that you can't get across here, it's class "bias" and no one should agree with each other that we all need tweaks. It's all for one or nothing in the mind of many, already spoke broadly for everyone and I still have to deal with the inevitable profession drama.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Shao.7236

[semak.7481]

10 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

That's the point that you can't get across here, it's class "bias" and no one should agree with each other that we all need tweaks. It's all for one or nothing in the mind of many, already spoke broadly for everyone and I still have to deal with the inevitable profession drama.

LMAO tbh.

Someone with a meme signature tells others about class bias when only now wants this "tweaks". 

This makes me think you are new to this game but ~2400 posts says otherwise, I'm perplexed.

But why I'm surprised... you couldnt understand what I wrote before (thanks @Kodama.6453for accurate explanation <3), further attempts to explain why this will never happen will go over your head anyway.

[GuriGashi.5617]

Yeah they should truly do this more often, so that triple thief can win monthly AT, like they did yesterday

Edited July 24, 2022 by GuriGashi.5617

[Shao.7236]

7 hours ago, semak.7481 said:

LMAO tbh.

Someone with a meme signature tells others about class bias when only now wants this "tweaks". 

This makes me think you are new to this game but ~2400 posts says otherwise, I'm perplexed.

But why I'm surprised... you couldnt understand what I wrote before (thanks @Kodama.6453for accurate explanation <3), further attempts to explain why this will never happen will go over your head anyway.

It's not class bias to nerf widely as they've pretty much done it to everyone 98% of the time, that's where your sarcasm fail. You don't have to be so upset if someone notices something they'd like to have more often, especially for the case of "everyone" fr, you're just looking for drama and it's quite easy to tell by the way you form any sentences directed for someone that had to tell you "meme" better.

Alone by the fact you assumed everyone knew about it. The statistics say otherwise, we'd hear it way more than just an honorable mention in this topic, in fact if such thing was known widely it would have been easily the most persistent fact about PvP that Anet can split content even in between elites because there has been nothing but controversional nerfs such as Shield for Engineer as a profession wide nerf.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Shao.7236

[semak.7481]

11 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

It's not class bias to nerf widely as they've pretty much done it to everyone 98% of the time, that's where your sarcasm fail. You don't have to be so upset if someone notices something they'd like to have more often, especially for the case of "everyone" fr, you're just looking for drama and it's quite easy to tell by the way you form any sentences directed for someone that had to tell you "meme" better.

They care enough to split some trait for an entire necromancer so other specs dont have to get to suffer because of the scourge; care enough to split vigor for vindi so the rest dont have to suffer, meanwhile didnt give a single f**k to screw over vigor for mes (since you have problem with reading, I repeat  - there is a 100% copy version of that trait but it was nerfed specially for mesmer, a big "f*ck you" right in the face). Which doesnt make sense, thief/war/ranger evade way more often and their problem was mirage cloak but they couldnt miss such a great opportunity to hurt yet again alrdy dead power builds and push mesmer into chaos condi even more.🤣

Besides that 1dodge treatment / taking away self shatter from chrono (they didnt hurry to give it back after all backlash but decided to yoink distortion for memes). Thank god they handle mesmer with care ! (Virtuoso gotta earn these $$$ tho)

11 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

Alone by the fact you assumed everyone knew about it. The statistics say otherwise, we'd hear it way more than just an honorable mention in this topic, in fact if such thing was known widely it would have been easily the most persistent fact about PvP that Anet can split content even in between elites because there has been nothing but controversional nerfs such as Shield for Engineer as a profession wide nerf.

Somehow its my fault that forum warriors have a short memory? If anything thats your/their problem, not mine.

Besides splitting traits, they also did to cata sphere and probs FB (cant remember as it was w/e). 

Shield nerf on engi makes sense, the best shield offhand in the game, has 4 skills because of flip skils,3 hard cc's (push, daze and stun once anything touches engi while blocking). It began to shine with holo as core engi never had a good mainhand to pair with it (should have been nerfed back then imo) and when mechanist was shipped, you only had to go full bunker and stay alive and CC everyone while NPC farms your opponents but there is a problem... mechanist doesnt contribute to engi survivability but shield is a perfect candidate for nerfs for the reasons mentioned above. 

Edited July 25, 2022 by semak.7481

[Shao.7236]

7 hours ago, semak.7481 said:

They care enough to split some trait for an entire necromancer so other specs dont have to get to suffer because of the scourge; care enough to split vigor for vindi so the rest dont have to suffer, meanwhile didnt give a single f**k to screw over vigor for mes (since you have problem with reading, I repeat  - there is a 100% copy version of that trait but it was nerfed specially for mesmer, a big "f*ck you" right in the face). Which doesnt make sense, thief/war/ranger evade way more often and their problem was mirage cloak but they couldnt miss such a great opportunity to hurt yet again alrdy dead power builds and push mesmer into chaos condi even more.🤣

Besides that 1dodge treatment / taking away self shatter from chrono (they didnt hurry to give it back after all backlash but decided to yoink distortion for memes). Thank god they handle mesmer with care ! (Virtuoso gotta earn these $$$ tho)

Somehow its my fault that forum warriors have a short memory? If anything thats your/their problem, not mine.

Besides splitting traits, they also did to cata sphere and probs FB (cant remember as it was w/e). 

Shield nerf on engi makes sense, the best shield offhand in the game, has 4 skills because of flip skils,3 hard cc's (push, daze and stun once anything touches engi while blocking). It began to shine with holo as core engi never had a good mainhand to pair with it (should have been nerfed back then imo) and when mechanist was shipped, you only had to go full bunker and stay alive and CC everyone while NPC farms your opponents but there is a problem... mechanist doesnt contribute to engi survivability but shield is a perfect candidate for nerfs for the reasons mentioned above. 

That being still your only reason to be so upset is hilariously bad and does not take into account anything else. All I see is unwarranted complains because you want to complain rather than head on accept the situation could be better with said suggestions. "Hurr durr I have it so much worst than you shut up already!!1"  or "They put apparent effort into nerfing this therefor I am eligible to moan more than you bro."

You head on and try to play Core Revenant, see where that gets you with all the nerfs in favor of elites. ex D emoji! It's totally and "exclusively" class bias and not collateral incompetence to work a better philosophy behind the nerf train, let's not forget they totally wanted to destroy Mallyx by changing Resistance, class bias!!

Shield Engineer has had plenty requests to be changed in many ways but it's CD, this doesn't prove any class bias regardless. Only incompetence from the team to do it properly.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Shao.7236

[semak.7481]

2 hours ago, Shao.7236 said:

That being still your only reason to be so upset is hilariously bad and does not take into account anything else. All I see is unwarranted complains because you want to complain rather than head on accept the situation could be better with said suggestions. "Hurr durr I have it so much worst than you shut up already!!1"  or "They put apparent effort into nerfing this therefor I am eligible to moan more than you bro."

You head on and try to play Core Revenant, see where that gets you with all the nerfs in favor of elites. ex D emoji! It's totally and "exclusively" class bias and not collateral incompetence to work a better philosophy behind the nerf train, let's not forget they totally wanted to destroy Mallyx by changing Resistance, class bias!!

Shield Engineer has had plenty requests to be changed in many ways but it's CD, this doesn't prove any class bias regardless. Only incompetence from the team to do it properly.

You should watch this, thats clearly about you

Quote

further attempts to explain why this will never happen will go over your head anyway.

I'm a clairvoyant apparently

Edited July 25, 2022 by semak.7481

[Shao.7236]

3 hours ago, semak.7481 said:

You should watch this, thats clearly about you

I'm a clairvoyant apparently

Quite clairvoyant for conspiracies because he's not capable of accepting incompetence at balancing. Everything has to be some majestic story that gives yourself meaning in life I'm sure.

It is absolutely not because devs are clueless most of the times, they're very malicious at all times! They want Mesmer to fail and that's why they're plotting it so intricately with those changes they couldn't have bothered to split if it mattered in the first place.

Have I been living rent free in your head until you could find a reason to share an embedded youtube link? Probably. You've been quite passionate in the first place to think you were into something for such minute and hardly related idea that this game could be better if it was done right.

Can't be that hard if they're doing it to personally spite you right? They're paid to do so afterall.

Your very poor sarcasm still leads to the idea that you do not agree nor care, you're just here to create drama.

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by Shao.7236

[Khalisto.5780]

If you playig any thief slec you cant decap

 

That's the line i wanna read

 

Rofl

[phixion.9428]

On 7/23/2022 at 1:21 AM, Kodama.6453 said:

I think their point is the exact opposite.

Mesmer got an overarcing nerf for all specs when they nerfed the trait critical infusion. The reason for the nerf has been the mirage elite spec most likely (which was using any method it had to gain more dodges, like through vigor, so they can keep spamming ambushes).

The system to nerf traits when used in conjunction with an elite spec has already been established. So Anet could have went the same path for mesmer here, by just nerfing the vigor duration from critical infusion if it is used with the mirage elite spec. But instead, they made it a general nerf for all mesmer classes.

So I think they want to point out that mesmer got treated unfairly when it got punished in core because of the overperformance of an elite spec (mirage). They could have nerfed the effect for mirage specifically instead.

They went even more far with mirage. After nerfing all vigor for all mesmer specs they additionally removed one dodge bar. 😆

Edited January 16, 2023 by phixion.9428

[Kodama.6453]

10 minutes ago, phixion.9428 said:

They went even more far with mirage. After nerfing all vigor for all mesmer specs they additionally removed one dodge bar. Still the most stupid balance decision i have seen before eod beta.

While this is true, it is also kinda missing the point of this thread?

People here are asking from Anet to make more balance changes for elite specs specifically, instead of nerfing core traits and skills to balance an outlier elite spec and therefore nerfing all specs of the class in question.

The endurance bar nerf for mirage hasn't been a great change, but it has been a nerf for mirage specifically which didn't affect any other elite specs or the core class. Which is what people are generally requesting here, even if possibly not in such a brutal way.

[phixion.9428]

On 8/14/2022 at 1:08 PM, Kodama.6453 said:

While this is true, it is also kinda missing the point of this thread?

People here are asking from Anet to make more balance changes for elite specs specifically, instead of nerfing core traits and skills to balance an outlier elite spec and therefore nerfing all specs of the class in question.

The endurance bar nerf for mirage hasn't been a great change, but it has been a nerf for mirage specifically which didn't affect any other elite specs or the core class. Which is what people are generally requesting here, even if possibly not in such a brutal way.

Well, one of my my points was, that they didn't revert the core nerfs after nerfing mirage like that. 

On the other side we should not complain about nerfs to core traitlines when the problems are in core traitlines (wasn't the case with vigor in duelling but for example the signet invulnerability trait in inspiration is a general problem not only on mirage). 

And the other point was, that modifying core traits for elites like that is a chance to get away from such brutal trade off nerfs. For example reducing vigor in some traitlines when mirage overperformes with it but core doesn't overperform with it. Especially when they don't want to get rid of traits because of PvE.

Edited January 16, 2023 by phixion.9428

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

On 7/19/2022 at 5:07 PM, Shao.7236 said:

Probably revert a lot of core nerfs and have traits adjusted based on the elite rather than have everything else suffer.

Because.. 

• Unwavering Avoidance: Reduced vigor duration from 3 seconds to 1.5 seconds in PvP only when the Vindicator specialization is equipped.

When I saw this I was ready to type a storm but the last part brought my sanity back.

 

On 7/19/2022 at 5:17 PM, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

That's...surprisingly thoughtful.

That balancing direction could help a lot with class interbalance, and making sure the tradeoffs for equipping class specs x and y are encapsulated in the specs themselves instead of spilling over to other denominations.

That's good. Very good. They need to keep doing that (but keep good documentation about what goes where lest the fine details get lost). 

Keep doing that, Anet. And also, if every month the balance changes were about the size of the patch we just got - would be fine. 

Hrm, it's like I agree, but at the same time I'm very wary of how they'd continue to wield this.

Personally, I don't want too many skill splits upon skill splits.

If it's very important to split something so that a specialization cannot ultra abuse a core feature, ok.

But they would need to leave these kinds of splits alone outside of very important reasons for doing so.

Edited August 14, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Shao.7236]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

 

Hrm, it's like I agree, but at the same time I'm very wary of how they'd continue to wield this.

Personally, I don't want too many skill splits upon skill splits.

If it's very important to split something so that a specialization cannot ultra abuse a core feature, ok.

But they would need to leave these kinds of splits alone outside of very important reasons for doing so.

Understandably.

I was playing Vindicator without Energy Sigils and it felt quite good and balanced to play, minus the healing skills being a bit too low on the CD.

Feels like they should have just nerfed the effect of that sigil rather than completely gut the elite and make it mandatory.

Splits like this definitely have a place in all shapes and form for how things are managed, to remind that Knight was removed because Ranger had exceedingly good synergy with it. Instead they could have nerfed what made Ranger so good only if the amulet was worth over removing it entirely.