Can devs make something new and stop changing the old. [Merged]

[The Greyhawk.9107]

4 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

It's only censorship if it wasn't ArenaNet's choice.

Not sure that I agree with that.

[Gibson.4036]

4 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

Not sure that I agree with that.

Kinda the definition.

[Kalavier.1097]

14 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

It's only censorship if it wasn't ArenaNet's choice.

Pretty much. People are spending way too much time focused on this and applying reasons that have never been stated or hinted at. "Censorship" "Politics" etc.

I'm sorry, they are censoring the watchknight but not SNARGLE? Or the starborn outfit?

On 7/21/2022 at 3:44 PM, Gorem.8104 said:

Its such a dumb thing for Anet to finger point and "decide" what needs to be fixed from the past, instead of just releasing it as it is. And note to Anet - a lot of men play, and many of them do like looking at pretty woman, so doing this is once again you actively trying to make less money 🙂 While offending woman at the same time. 

I just noticed this part and wow.

So... you seriously think that because Anet changed a singular model, the watchknight (which wasn't even a new change, they changed the marionette for the boss battle a while ago and anybody could've guessed they'd copy the new look to the watchknights.) men would... stop spending as much money in GW2?

And what women are offended by this? Seriously, what women are taking the watchknight model tweak as an actual personal insult and getting offended by it?

12 hours ago, mishalm.5620 said:

I don't understand why to change the designs, it was fear or it was intentional and my niece didn't even ask before, hopefully it's not because of sexual or political reasons, I hope it's not dramatic for the future...

I fail to see why people are so worried about Anet sweeping everything away over this when they literally made Snargle and expanded his role/presence in EoD.

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

2 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Pretty much. People are spending way too much time focused on this and applying reasons that have never been stated or hinted at. "Censorship" "Politics" etc.

censorship is not always done by a government or only political

Governments^[5] and private organizations may engage in censorship. Other groups or institutions may propose and petition for censorship.^[6] When an individual such as an author or other creator engages in censorship of his or her own works or speech, it is referred to as self-censorship. General censorship occurs in a variety of different media, including speech, books, music, films, and other arts, the press, radio, television, and the Internet for a variety of claimed reasons including national security, to control obscenity, pornography, and hate speech, to protect children or other vulnerable groups, to promote or restrict political or religious views, and to prevent slander and libel.

Self-censorship is the act of censoring or classifying one's own discourse. This is done out of fear of, or deference to, the sensibilities or preferences (actual or perceived) of others and without overt pressure from any specific party or institution of authority.

Edited July 23, 2022 by ShroomOneUp.6913

[The Greyhawk.9107]

9 hours ago, Gibson.4036 said:

Kinda the definition.

 

1 hour ago, ShroomOneUp.6913 said:

censorship is not always done by a government or only political

Governments^[5] and private organizations may engage in censorship. Other groups or institutions may propose and petition for censorship.^[6] When an individual such as an author or other creator engages in censorship of his or her own works or speech, it is referred to as self-censorship. General censorship occurs in a variety of different media, including speech, books, music, films, and other arts, the press, radio, television, and the Internet for a variety of claimed reasons including national security, to control obscenity, pornography, and hate speech, to protect children or other vulnerable groups, to promote or restrict political or religious views, and to prevent slander and libel.

Self-censorship is the act of censoring or classifying one's own discourse. This is done out of fear of, or deference to, the sensibilities or preferences (actual or perceived) of others and without overt pressure from any specific party or institution of authority.

 

[Dante.1508]

Funnily they can't fix old maps or older build specs but they can fix useless crap to suit their agendas...

  

On 7/20/2022 at 11:15 AM, Healix.5819 said:

 

Wow the new one looks absolutely crap.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Dante.1508

[Einsof.1457]

On 7/19/2022 at 6:17 PM, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

A year ago the twisted marionette was rereleased with dramatically changed artwork probably for polical reasons only. Then mai trins voice line were changed only because i assume they wanted the VA to be the same race as the character (similar to Cleveland on family guy or Apu on the simpson). Now all watchwork models have been changed in the game including the tonic that players can use. How long until legacy armors start getting censored as well.

My plea is for anet to stop changing legacy art assets or legacy voice lines. For the rest of season one, please keep the art style as faithful to what was released 8 years ago. I understand mechanics will have to be changed because ls1 want designed to drive traffic to the cashshop, I am ok with those changes. But changing old art assets is being disrespectful to the artists and voice actors from the past.

If current devs want to push the game to a different art style, they can do that with ls6 or add those assets to cathan. NKC feels like a dead zone, and could due with some more assets to make it feel more alive. But censoring old art make me feel like you are jealous of the old designs and you can not compete with them unless they have been removed.

 

Edited July 23, 2022 by Einsof.1457

[Sobx.1758]

On 7/22/2022 at 8:10 PM, Gibson.4036 said:

It's only censorship if it wasn't ArenaNet's choice.

That's... really not how it works. Unless you also think self-censorship isn't censorship and it's rather obvious that it is. You can go back to your own work and censor it for multiple reasons, that doesn't make it any less of censorship.

Even moreso when the companies operate on multiple layers and you don't know which one -and for what specific reason- made the decision. "it was Anet's choice so it's automatically not censorship" is just false.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Shadowmoon.7986]

On 7/22/2022 at 1:10 PM, Gibson.4036 said:

It's only censorship if it wasn't ArenaNet's choice.

Not necessarily, the artist who would made these designs are probably no longer with the company, the art director now is not the same as it was 8 years ago. So we now have new artists changing other peoples work for what appears to be s modern moral panic. This has huge parallels with the fig leaf campaign of the sistine chapel. Does anet owns the watchwork models like the catholic church owns the last judgement, yes they do. But the fig leaf campaign was consided censorship, and many people considered it a travesty!

[Kalavier.1097]

2 hours ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

Not necessarily, the artist who would made these designs are probably no longer with the company, the art director now is not the same as it was 8 years ago. So we now have new artists changing other peoples work for what appears to be s modern moral panic. This has huge parallels with the fig leaf campaign of the sistine chapel. Does anet owns the watchwork models like the catholic church owns the last judgement, yes they do. But the fig leaf campaign was consided censorship, and many people considered it a travesty!

What moral panic? This is the exact same team that brought us Snargle. That has implications of sex toys in EoD.

Literally nothing else was changed in this update besides the watchknights mirroring the model change for the Marionette fight, which as far as I know, wasn't decided as being done for "moral reasons" or anything else, but just part of reworking the fight to re-release it.

I'm very curious at the factual evidence people have for this change being for this a moral/political change. Do provide it instead of screaming nonsense.

[Ryou.2398]

4 hours ago, Shadowmoon.7986 said:

Not necessarily, the artist who would made these designs are probably no longer with the company, the art director now is not the same as it was 8 years ago. So we now have new artists changing other peoples work for what appears to be s modern moral panic. This has huge parallels with the fig leaf campaign of the sistine chapel. Does anet owns the watchwork models like the catholic church owns the last judgement, yes they do. But the fig leaf campaign was consided censorship, and many people considered it a travesty!

Well said.

[Dante.1508]

2 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

What moral panic? This is the exact same team that brought us Snargle. That has implications of sex toys in EoD.

Literally nothing else was changed in this update besides the watchknights mirroring the model change for the Marionette fight, which as far as I know, wasn't decided as being done for "moral reasons" or anything else, but just part of reworking the fight to re-release it.

I'm very curious at the factual evidence people have for this change being for this a moral/political change. Do provide it instead of screaming nonsense.

Implications and actual digital things way different..

Edited July 25, 2022 by Dante.1508

[The Greyhawk.9107]

4 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

What moral panic? This is the exact same team that brought us Snargle. That has implications of sex toys in EoD.

Literally nothing else was changed in this update besides the watchknights mirroring the model change for the Marionette fight, which as far as I know, wasn't decided as being done for "moral reasons" or anything else, but just part of reworking the fight to re-release it.

I'm very curious at the factual evidence people have for this change being for this a moral/political change. Do provide it instead of screaming nonsense.

 

2 hours ago, Dante.1508 said:

Implications and actual digital things way different..

I don't even remember such things ever being implied in the first place, so if its even there its a "blink and you miss it" sort of thing which is way different than a visual digital asset that all can see.

[Dante.1508]

4 minutes ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

 

I don't even remember such things ever being implied in the first place, so if its even there its a "blink and you miss it" sort of thing which is way different than a visual digital asset that all can see.

Its just a couple of lines and its gone.. and the whole snargle character is just a pervert charr added to EoD for i don't even know potty humor factor?

 

Its just all dumb.. even the watchknight changes are just mind boggling.. i mean they continually tell us they have limited assets available to create content then do things like this..

I mean wtf is even going on in Anet these days.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Dante.1508

[Kalavier.1097]

Were you all this mad when the Marionette changed? Because that's when the actual work was done. This was nothing but a copy-paste.

I mean, WTF is even going on that you all are so obsessed over a singular tonic change, drawing vast implications and reasonings from it that have never been said or even hinted about.

Please, provide me the hard evidence that Anet is off on some moral purge of anything slightly adult. Show me the revealing armors all being scrubbed away. Dialogue changed. I'm waiting. Some of you at least, your obsession about the model change seems to be very much questionable, at least to be shouting out across a public, open forum.

[ShroomOneUp.6913]

5 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Were you all this mad when the Marionette changed? Because that's when the actual work was done. This was nothing but a copy-paste.

I mean, WTF is even going on that you all are so obsessed over a singular tonic change, drawing vast implications and reasonings from it that have never been said or even hinted about.

Please, provide me the hard evidence that Anet is off on some moral purge of anything slightly adult. Show me the revealing armors all being scrubbed away. Dialogue changed. I'm waiting. Some of you at least, your obsession about the model change seems to be very much questionable, at least to be shouting out across a public, open forum.

yes we were. and yes anet removed the threads

[Zebulous.2934]

It is about a feeling of ownership.  Players at least like to feel like they own the content of their inventory and wardrobe.  When Anet does something to break that illusion people get mad.  It is probably a good idea to make a fuss each time this happens.  If players don't say anything then the silence could be taken as acceptance or even approval. 

People lost their kitten over a patch a few weeks ago.  Anet hastily wrote an extra patch notes for it hoping that explaining the changes in detail would clam folks down.  Well some players don't pvp, but they do dress up their toons and idle chat in Divinities' Reach. Retroactively altering a permanent tonic is just as alarming to such players as that previous patch was to the pvp folk.  
Even if it was a transformation I didn't like, tomorrow it could be an infusion, or an outfit, that I do like.
 

[Dante.1508]

Its more like a feeling of what a waste of time and effort.. on something no one wanted or asked for.

[Sobx.1758]

17 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

What moral panic? This is the exact same team that brought us Snargle. That has implications of sex toys in EoD.

Literally nothing else was changed in this update besides the watchknights mirroring the model change for the Marionette fight, which as far as I know, wasn't decided as being done for "moral reasons" or anything else, but just part of reworking the fight to re-release it.

I'm very curious at the factual evidence people have for this change being for this a moral/political change. Do provide it instead of screaming nonsense.

Nonsense? I mean... do provide evidence that flattening the curves on a robot influenced the fight in any meaningful way and/or was somehow required in order for the re-release to work 🙃 

Edited July 25, 2022 by Sobx.1758
"re-"release

[Kalavier.1097]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Nonsense? I mean... do provide evidence that flattening the curves on a robot influenced the fight in any meaningful way and/or was somehow required in order for the re-release to work 🙃 

And do provide evidence of all these moral or political reasonings. I've yet to see any posts from Anet devs anywhere about the Why, yet people keep saying the reasons as if those posts are out there. 

Especially when everything else is untouched.

4 hours ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

It is about a feeling of ownership.  Players at least like to feel like they own the content of their inventory and wardrobe.  When Anet does something to break that illusion people get mad.  It is probably a good idea to make a fuss each time this happens.  If players don't say anything then the silence could be taken as acceptance or even approval. 
 

And you lost a singular robot tonic. Your entire wardrobe, still there, still unchanged. Every armor piece revealing or covered.

Don't act as if Anet walked in and completely redid your characters entire customization of body and face. There is a difference between tweaking an enemy and thus the tonic model gets changed because they both reference X modelname, and Anet going "Welp, we are removing X body type from human and norn females."

[Sobx.1758]

16 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

And do provide evidence of all these moral or political reasonings. I've yet to see any posts from Anet devs anywhere about the Why, yet people keep saying the reasons as if those posts are out there. 

Especially when everything else is untouched.

You make a random claim it's about the re-realise being the cause here and don't provide a single thing to support it. Providing anything aside, it simply doesn't make sense to pretend it was somehow directly needed in order to re-release that content. What does make sense though is the claim you're arguing against. 🤷‍♂️

Edited July 25, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[SlayerXX.7138]

On 7/21/2022 at 2:43 PM, Tazer.2157 said:

Dragons and magic do not sexualize women. The robot in this case was clearly made with overblown proportions of the female body. You do not see male robots in the game that were made in a similar way. Anyways, it doesn't matter what you or I think.

No, only you know, the whole male norm race. Who deadlift dojaks and eat grow hormones for breakfast with a side of testosterone Pills. While i get where people coming from with the high heels and +1 in boob sizes, I'm really confused that people unironically think these robots are "sexy" or "Sexist".

They were grotesque which I like more then the female model with metal texture taped on. But I think it is silly to think the sky is falling cause of a panic about sexuality, as i never saw someone complaining.

Maybe it was 1 employee having a personal interest Bullshiting a reason for the change.

Maybe some PEGI rating they want to play safe before steam.

Maybe some appeal to be as inoffensive(boring) as possible to reach the most common denominator.

 

It certainly isn't a companywide policy. If i had to guess it is just the personality of a employee bleeding into the game. Like the old guy in echowald getting "owned" for his "xenophobic" Joke. I understand it sucks that Anet is kittening with your items. But to think it this grand conspiracy is just silly.

[Kalavier.1097]

30 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

No, only you know, the whole male norm race. Who deadlift dojaks and eat grow hormones for breakfast with a side of testosterone Pills. While i get where people coming from with the high heels and +1 in boob sizes, I'm really confused that people unironically think these robots are "sexy" or "Sexist".

They were grotesque which I like more then the female model with metal texture taped on. But I think it is silly to think the sky is falling cause of a panic about sexuality, as i never saw someone complaining.

Maybe it was 1 employee having a personal interest Bullshiting a reason for the change.

Maybe some PEGI rating they want to play safe before steam.

Maybe some appeal to be as inoffensive(boring) as possible to reach the most common denominator.

Steam/other groups may have different rules. With them talking about steam release, perhaps that played a part.

30 minutes ago, Albi.7250 said:

It certainly isn't a companywide policy. If i had to guess it is just the personality of a employee bleeding into the game. Like the old guy in echowald getting "owned" for his "xenophobic" Joke. I understand it sucks that Anet is kittening with your items. But to think it this grand conspiracy is just silly.

This is the entire point. There was a singular model change, nothing more, nothing less. Yet people are crafting vast conspiracies and plots.

I wonder if for some it's just a reason to hate on GW2. I've noticed over the years that some people play daily/frequent GW2 communities and basically exist just to yell about how bad Anet is and how bad GW2 is/GW2 is ruining the setting. So they take a small change and blow it up because it's the only thing they can really hate about the update?

[Sobx.1758]

29 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Steam/other groups may have different rules. With them talking about steam release, perhaps that played a part.

So after claiming it's nonsense, now you see at least some ways in which it could easly be considered censoring the past content, eh?

[kharmin.7683]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

So after claiming it's nonsense, now you see at least some ways in which it could easly be considered censoring the past content, eh?

Not sure I'd call it censoring.  More like making a business decision to adjust something that is expected to positively affect revenue. 

Businesses don't make changes like these in a vacuum.