Emboldened Needs to be Re-worked

[Angelz.9713]

This has been an absolute failure from the start! Every single raid you try to go into now the group just wants to wipe until you get max boons. Those of us that like to raid don't want to sit through 15 minutes of this crap. We could have most of the wing cleared by then! This is pure laziness and an unwillingness to learn. Not only that but having people able to do 30-35k dps without even trying is just not okay. Instead of getting more people to actually learn raids the correct way you've allowed them to start being lazy and get carried.
Not only that but emboldened should NOT be on by default! If groups want to use emboldened fine, but those of us that are experienced raiders should not have to worry about if its on or off, we don't want anything to do with emboldened and now we have to spend more time ensuring that a mote is off that should NOT be on by default, especially when we are doing CMs. 
Please re-work this so that it helps newer raiders but not so much that they can be carried or lazy in getting their kills. Also, if emboldened is on, there should be very little rewards and no KP. 
Really wish Anet would listen to us. Sadly I know a lot of raiders that up and quit because of this and I can't really blame them, LFG for raids is a disaster now and super frustrating. 

[BumboJumbo.1308]

I don't understand why you're against the emboldenment effect when it gets people that haven't done raids to now do raids. Which in turn could mean more raids in the future.

There is more QQ in this post than when I watched The Notebook (I cried alot). Please stop.

[The Boz.2038]

Whoever chooses to self-sabotage their learning and time by building Emboldened stacks... I mean, let them. PEBKAC issue, 100%.

[Fueki.4753]

If you don't like it, open your own groups and specify in the LFG that you don't want to abuse the mechanic.

Edited July 22, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[TexZero.7910]

It doesn't even take 15 minutes to max stacks. At most excluding movement to the arena it takes 2:30.

 

Also, you could just not join them. That's always an option since clearly you're good enough, right ?

[Krzysztof.5973]

1 hour ago, TexZero.7910 said:

It doesn't even take 15 minutes to max stacks. At most excluding movement to the arena it takes 2:30.

It takes less than 4min to get max stacks 🙂

[TexZero.7910]

5 hours ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

It takes less than 4min to get max stacks 🙂

That's what i said...

[Linken.6345]

6 hours ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

It takes less than 4min to get max stacks 🙂

per boss tho so kinda close to 15mins

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Emboldend mode let me feel what its like to play as 36kHP  Ele instead of 16k HP Ele.. Its an amasing experience, I get hit and I survive, I can play for a while. 😛

Edited July 23, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Falson.5284]

I've run emboldened and non-emboldened runs every week since it's been added and I've literally seen nobody purposely stacking the buffs. So what are you actually talking about? Every group I've been in has been there to learn and the emboldened has just been something in the background

[Dean.3056]

He's kinda right.

Normal raids should not have vanilla mode and just have an easy mode that give a reduced reward with the goal of learning the raid. That way beginner raiders can use that tool and normal raiders will not bother with that tool.
The problem is that the mode can be shared with both sides right now and the UX is annoying because it is on by default and resets to being active after every boss kill or if you reenter the wing.

[Cyninja.2954]

To be fair, the current implementation of emboldened is literally based around the design principle:

Active on raid entry

- annoying and convoluted to deal with as experienced raiders

- reactivates after every boss means even more effort to actually NOT have the buff running

- veteran raiders are expected to deal with it

- new players are to stupid to active the mode on entry if desired (this is what I find most disgusting personally. Believing the bar so high for new players that expecting them to be able to find a mote to activate is already beyond their ability)

This leads to bugs with challenge modes. Bugs with emboldened its self where if it gets deactivated before everyone is inside the instance, later players will get the buff still.

I personal am fine with having emboldened mode if it helps get more players into raids. The progress which is possible with it without actually raiding seems long enough to actually encourage players to take on the content regularly. I just don't get why it is always on or even active by default. Make it a separate mote at the entrance which has to get turned on, or even at each boss next to the challenge mode mote (or even combined with the CM mote). These things should get toggled on, not off.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Astralporing.1957]

1 hour ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

- new players are to stupid to active the mode on entry if desired (this is what I find most disgusting personally. Believing the bar so high for new players that expecting them to be able to find a mote to activate is already beyond their ability)

Because that is actually true. In most of the training runs i have seen so far there were people that had no idea emboldened was even a thing. Including commanders. In fact, i have seen veteran raiders with 1000+LI on their kpme accounts that weren't really sure what this new buff on bar is and where it comes from... (although those were usually players that have just returned after some absence, and just weren't there for the emboldened introduction).

And the word is not "stupid". It's "uninformed". Because yes, lack of information is the greatest bar to entry.

Still, the switch should be global, and affect the instance, not players (so players would not end up with diferent levels of emboldened stacks) and its state should be retained until changed manually or instance is reset. Meaning, if you turn it off, it should stay off until someone turns it on back again, or everyone leaves the instance.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Astralporing.1957

[Cyninja.2954]

34 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said:

Because that is actually true. In most of the training runs i have seen so far there were people that had no idea emboldened was even a thing. Including commanders. In fact, i have seen veteran raiders with 1000+LI on their kpme accounts that weren't really sure what this new buff on bar is and where it comes from... (although those were usually players that have just returned after some absence, and just weren't there for the emboldened introduction).

And the word is not "stupid". It's "uninformed". Because yes, lack of information is the greatest bar to entry.

Still, the switch should be global, and affect the instance, not players (so players would not end up with diferent levels of emboldened stacks) and its state should be retained until changed manually or instance is reset. Meaning, if you turn it off, it should stay off until someone turns it on back again, or everyone leaves the instance.

Oh absolutely, it is lack of information. To which I can only say:"how many of those accidental training runs happen which suddenly pick the exact wing with emboldened and no one knows about it?" The majority of training runs are run by veteran players and most of them, if they did not recently return to the game, will know what the buff is.

Other experienced raiders not being informed, sure that makes sense. Most of them are likely not running trainings but just going about doing their usual clears. They are the ones currently which have to work with this clunky system.

I get it, the developers want to push emboldened mode by all means necessary. I still do believe there should be at least SOME form of coordination or minimum effort involved when such a feature gets activated. On the contrary, giving players the emboldened buff WITHOUT their consent or knowledge sets up a very incorrect representation of how this content works or has to get approached.

The go-to mo for games in general has always been: either offer a similar difficulty setting at the beginning across all content (you don't see many games swap back and forth between different content difficulty without the users input) or intervene if a player is challenged. Having this auto active beginner mode is literally un-intuitive in an attempt to somehow carry even the last 5% of players along.

TL;DR:

If players are to challenged in figuring out what emboldened mode does or in how to activate it, maybe they shouldn't raid. Then again I am also of the opinion that not every player SHOULD raid in this game, if their effort or interest is that close to 0.

EDIT:

There is 1 case where I would agree that the auto active approach makes sense: diverging opinion on if it should get use or not within a squad. Having it auto on can lead to a more acceptable approach by some players (and the current added effort of having to deactivate it most certainly does). Where as having it toggle on could lead to discussions about using it or not.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Cyninja.2954

[Firebeard.1746]

On 7/21/2022 at 4:44 PM, Angelz.9713 said:

This has been an absolute failure from the start! Every single raid you try to go into now the group just wants to wipe until you get max boons. Those of us that like to raid don't want to sit through 15 minutes of this crap. We could have most of the wing cleared by then! This is pure laziness and an unwillingness to learn. Not only that but having people able to do 30-35k dps without even trying is just not okay. Instead of getting more people to actually learn raids the correct way you've allowed them to start being lazy and get carried.
Not only that but emboldened should NOT be on by default! If groups want to use emboldened fine, but those of us that are experienced raiders should not have to worry about if its on or off, we don't want anything to do with emboldened and now we have to spend more time ensuring that a mote is off that should NOT be on by default, especially when we are doing CMs. 
Please re-work this so that it helps newer raiders but not so much that they can be carried or lazy in getting their kills. Also, if emboldened is on, there should be very little rewards and no KP. 
Really wish Anet would listen to us. Sadly I know a lot of raiders that up and quit because of this and I can't really blame them, LFG for raids is a disaster now and super frustrating. 

Does it really take that long to wipe enough to get max effect? Can't you just gg?

[TexZero.7910]

On 7/23/2022 at 10:58 PM, Firebeard.1746 said:

Does it really take that long to wipe enough to get max effect? Can't you just gg?

No.

It takes exactly 30 seconds to get 1 stack.

[Geckoo.6018]

Honestly i'm glad with the buff but not with the execution.

I don't see a problem with the buff being active by default considering who the target for the buff is. But if we as a group vote to disable it, that's the last we should see about the buff unless we vote again to enable it. It should not be active for someone joining the instance if we already voted to disable it, it should not be active as soon as we kill a boss. We already made our choice.

The real problem is that emboldened as a choice doesn't really have any downsides: more damage, more hp, more healing and you still get the same rewards... so, why not? This becomes specially true when we are talking about pugs on more complex fights like this week with Dhuum.

Now, does this issue bother me? not really. Raid rewards have never been the main reason to raid in this game and i support the idea of emboldened working as an entry point that has the potential to bring more players to this type of content. But it wouldn't be crazy to say that call of the mists and emboldened should always happen on the same wing and be mutually exclusive... just a small incentive for those who want to defeat the wing without the aid.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Geckoo.6018

[Zaxares.5419]

If Emboldened bothers you that much, just don't join those groups (or form your own group and specify that you will not be using Emboldened). I don't have access to the numbers, but ANet's own post said that they were very pleased by the big jump of interest from new raiders after it got introduced, so I doubt they're going to remove it when raids as a whole BADLY needs new blood. Besides, the boost from Emboldened still doesn't help groups that are struggling with mechanics or encounter knowledge; more health and damage won't save you from things like Sabetha's Flame Wall, or touching Deimos' oils, or failing to push Tormented Dead in SH. It provides more of a safety net, but it's not some "insta-carry" magical solution as some seem to think it is.

In fact, I'd actually advocate for Emboldened getting added to fracs and strikes as well. The overall take-up of endgame content by the majority of players is still worryingly small. On average only about 1/3 of GW2Efficiency players with EoD have completed ANY normal strike (Kaineng Overlook is higher at nearly 50%, no doubt because of the turtle req, but this does not tell us if they're doing strikes REGULARLY, which is what the game needs, or if they just did it once and never touched it again), which means that the wider playerbase is likely even smaller.

[Sobx.1758]

On 7/23/2022 at 12:10 PM, Astralporing.1957 said:

Because that is actually true. In most of the training runs i have seen so far there were people that had no idea emboldened was even a thing.

So in most of cases you've seen it did nothing to encourage those particular players or groups to start participating in the content. They did/would do it regardless of implementation of this system. Success?

 

On 7/23/2022 at 10:06 AM, Dean.3056 said:

He's kinda right.

Normal raids should not have vanilla mode and just have an easy mode that give a reduced reward with the goal of learning the raid. That way beginner raiders can use that tool and normal raiders will not bother with that tool.

Yup, true. Even the special training forces area's golem having some/most of the raid mechanics available to practice would probably do more in terms of teaching players. Of course the effort of just slapping a dmg buff on and calling it a day is significantly lower and that's also probably the main reason it was made the way it is now.

Edited July 27, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[mythical.6315]

I never would have guessed that people would choose to abuse that feature…

[Linken.6345]

4 hours ago, mythical.6315 said:

I never would have guessed that people would choose to abuse that feature…

Yea shocked pikachu face here aswell 😄

[samsar.9152]

Nah. No need to re-work it. Emboldened Mode is perfectly fine as it is now. 

[Day Trooper.3605]

Emboldened Mode has given myself and others like me the necessary 'boost' (pun intended) to try raids without fear of being ridiculed.  This in turn will increase the raid population and is undoubtedly a good thing for the game.

Emboldened also isn't a total 'win-mode' as failing certain key mechanics will still wipe your party (e.g. Xera shields or Dhuum greens).

Plus, only one raid wing per week is emboldened - and as others have stated, if you don't want it on, then simply turn it off.

TL;DR - Emboldened fine as is.

 

 

Edited July 29, 2022 by Day Trooper.3605

[Krzysztof.5973]

1 hour ago, Day Trooper.3605 said:

Emboldened Mode has given myself and others like me the necessary 'boost' (pun intended) to try raids without fear of being ridiculed.  This in turn will increase the raid population and is undoubtedly a good thing for the game.

Emboldened also isn't a total 'win-mode' as failing certain key mechanics will still wipe your party (e.g. Xera shields or Dhuum greens).

Plus, only one raid wing per week is emboldened - and as others have stated, if you don't want it on, then simply turn it off.

TL;DR - Emboldened fine as is.

 

 

It's not simple a " just turn it off". For 3 weeks now because of emboldened mode my static is getting (insert kitten here) over with weekly CMs. It's bugged on so many levels that we can't even pin in on one thing to prevent us from getting our CMs. 
Since release of EoD there's been a (insert kitten here) ton of bugs to be fixed. (insert lots of kittens here regarding fixing those bugs)

[Day Trooper.3605]

32 minutes ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

It's not simple a " just turn it off"...

 

I haven't experienced this myself as I've just been running Emboldened wings; but if true, then yes, ANet should definitely address this issue.

And so I'll amend my previous comment by stating that the Emboldened concept itself is fine and should remain as-is.