Logan and Queen Jennah or Logan and Ellen Kiel?

[Zola.6197]

Let the shipping wars commence! 🤡

I remember hearing of a potential/cut plot line wherein Queen Jennah would abdicate the throne to be with finally be with Logan, as her position in society prevented her from openly being with him for whatever reason. She’d only do this if she could find a suitable replacement, which I believe the locket was meant to factor into - hinting that there may be another blood successor to the throne of Kryta (I could be misremembering though).

The notion of Jennah abdicating the throne to be with her love and live a life of adventure with him is an idea I find compelling and sweet.

However, I believe there was something of a shipping wars internally at ANet, with a faction of people rooting for Logan to get with Ellen Kiel. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen them interact much, but perhaps it was a bigger thing in season 1?

The last hint we got regarding Logan’s love life was in Icebrood Saga where it was revealed Logan was dating again, seemingly moving on from Jennah. Could it be Ellen Kiel, or perhaps a new lady?

If they ever gave focus to Logan’s love life again, is there a couple you’d prefer? Or would you rather they never circle back to it?

Personally, I like Jennah and Logan. It was set up in the core game, and I like the element of them yearning to be together, and then finally realizing their wish. However they did hint that he’d moved on, so maybe it would be regressive to have him get back with Jennah who kept him at arms length out of her sense of duty. Still, walking away from royal life would be a big sign of commitment lol.

In general I like getting invested in the personal lives of the companions. I’ve really liked learning about Rytlock’s past through Crecia (and Ryland). I like whatever is brewing between Taimi and Gorrik. I loved Marjory’s Looking Back achievement, and the epilogue with her and Kas announcing their engagement was a highlight of EoDs. It makes the game feel deeper and more meaningful to me when we get to learn more about the inner lives all these characters lead when we’re not fighting baddies, and romance can certainly be a part of that! Any opportunities to expand these characters lives would be great!

Edited July 24, 2022 by Zola.6197
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[Forgotten Legend.9281]

i'm thinking it's a new lady, because they showed Ellen Kiel getting interested in someone in Elona (if i remember correctly, which i could be misremembering out of old age.) I think she was starting to date that Casino guy. granted, that was years ago so it may have ended "off-screen". and if it DID end off-screen, it's still a possibility that Logan and Kiel might be dating now.

there's also more details concerning Logan and Jennah in the official novel, i think it's called "Edge of Destiny," where it mentions that Jennah did some mesmer thing to Logan to keep him protecting her as a priority, but then, (we think) she finally "let him go" so he could run the Pact. 

i, too, am curious about his new amor, though.

and it would be VERY interesting to meet more royal descendants.

Edited July 22, 2022 by Forgotten Legend.9281

[Zola.6197]

47 minutes ago, Forgotten Legend.9281 said:

i'm thinking it's a new lady, because they showed Ellen Kiel getting interested in someone in Elona (if i remember correctly, which i could be misremembering out of old age.) I think she was starting to date that Casino guy. granted, that was years ago so it may have ended "off-screen". and if it DID end off-screen, it's still a possibility that Logan and Kiel might be dating now.

there's also more details concerning Logan and Jennah in the official novel, i think it's called "Edge of Destiny," where it mentions that Jennah did some mesmer thing to Logan to keep him protecting her as a priority, but then, (we think) she finally "let him go" so he could run the Pact. 

i, too, am curious about his new amor, though.

and it would be VERY interesting to meet more royal descendants.

I’m pretty sure Jennah didn’t mind control Logan haha. That’d be dark. From my understanding, he was her devoted knight, and he was in love with her to boot (and she, with him). She requested he return to protect her because of the machinations of enemies to her throne, and he left Destiny’s Edge to help her instead of his companions who were getting ready to fight Kralk. Him abandoning DE is why they blame him for their loss against Kralk, mainly because he chose to do so. I don’t think they’d blame him if he was magically forced into leaving them.

 

As for Kiel, I do think she had a fling with Zalambur (is that his name?). But in the EoDs epilogue in Aborstone, she tells us flat out she’s used her travels through Elona and now Cantha as an… ahem, man-buffet, let’s say.

 

So it doesn’t seem like she’s seriously attached based on that. But uhhh maybe Logan likes to share? 😂

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

I was always for King Logan, wielding Magdaer and ending the Foefire curse because Gwen's father was never known.

But with Season 3's retcon of Jennah's feelings for Logan to apparently never happen despite her direct confession to the PC in PS Chapter 3, in turn turning Logan into an actual simp of 8 years, I say just let him retire alone, he got butchered enough. *They* got butchered enough.

Kiel flirting around only serves to reduce her character around as well. Zalambur was a good fit for her and that got wasted on an apparent whim.

 

Forever Alone for all three of them I say.

Edited July 22, 2022 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[The Greyhawk.9107]

My read on Kiel is that she's a hook-up kind of person rather than someone that's interested in a long term relationship, at least that's how it seemed to me regarding the dialog about her "relationship" with Zalambur and whom ever she's with now.

[Kalavier.1097]

12 hours ago, Zola.6197 said:

I’m pretty sure Jennah didn’t mind control Logan haha. That’d be dark. From my understanding, he was her devoted knight, and he was in love with her to boot (and she, with him). She requested he return to protect her because of the machinations of enemies to her throne, and he left Destiny’s Edge to help her instead of his companions who were getting ready to fight Kralk. Him abandoning DE is why they blame him for their loss against Kralk, mainly because he chose to do so. I don’t think they’d blame him if he was magically forced into leaving them.

 

As for Kiel, I do think she had a fling with Zalambur (is that his name?). But in the EoDs epilogue in Aborstone, she tells us flat out she’s used her travels through Elona and now Cantha as an… ahem, man-buffet, let’s say.

 

So it doesn’t seem like she’s seriously attached based on that. But uhhh maybe Logan likes to share? 😂

Anet explicitly said Jennah didn't brainwash/mind control Logan into loving her.

She did have a spell that compelled him to travel to protect her if she was in dire danger, which happened as they prepared to fight Kralkatorrik. A fan theory is she regrets that later, which is why she tries to push Logan to rejoin Destiny's Edge/go out into the world against the dragons in PS and later.

In PS for humans, she makes the statement that Logan must choose, she won't make the choice for him as she made that mistake before, and won't do it again (when asked/told that she could order Logan to stay and he would)

10 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

I was always for King Logan, wielding Magdaer and ending the Foefire curse because Gwen's father was never known.

But with Season 3's retcon of Jennah's feelings for Logan to apparently never happen despite her direct confession to the PC in PS Chapter 3, in turn turning Logan into an actual simp of 8 years, I say just let him retire alone, he got butchered enough. *They* got butchered enough.

Kiel flirting around only serves to reduce her character around as well. Zalambur was a good fit for her and that got wasted on an apparent whim.

 

Forever Alone for all three of them I say.

 

Gwen's Father wasn't known but we saw her mother and her in pre-searing and they didn't come across or be treated as nobility by anybody. Even then, Gwen is treated as a hero, but not a noble by all. If the Thackery line was nobility it'd be known/brought up, instead of being the literal obstacle in their relationship. Likewise, it'd feel like a cop-out to suddenly reveal after all this time "Oho, but Logan was actually eligible to marry Jennah, and all the rumors and nasty looks were false!"

Season 3 didn't retcon Jennah's feelings for Logan at all from what I've seen. The relationship couldn't happen due to status difference and acceptance of the nobility, and he was actively used as a weakpoint for her. She had earlier stated she did not want a servant, but an equal. Likewise she states that if he's distracted and gets hurt because of her, she'd feel guilty/not know what to do. In Season 3, he leaps to defend her despite his wounds and is targeted because he's focused on her, not the city. By ending the relationship, she freed them both to focus on the greater image freely. Logan and Jennah loved each other, but due to the situation, and aspects of it, it wasn't working.

Logan also explicitly stated that he had started seeing somebody in season 4/IBS though he doesn't give a name, and in EoD he talks about buying a vacation home in southsun.  So he has a healthy relationship and is content.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

3 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Gwen's Father wasn't known but we saw her mother and her in pre-searing and they didn't come across or be treated as nobility by anybody.

Neither was Salma and her mother. Illegitimate children seldom are. Until there are no legitimate heirs and their lineage is (re)discovered.

Quote

Season 3 didn't retcon Jennah's feelings for Logan at all from what I've seen. The relationship couldn't happen due to status difference and acceptance of the nobility, and he was actively used as a weakpoint for her. She had earlier stated she did not want a servant, but an equal. Likewise she states that if he's distracted and gets hurt because of her, she'd feel guilty/not know what to do. In Season 3, he leaps to defend her despite his wounds and is targeted because he's focused on her, not the city. By ending the relationship, she freed them both to focus on the greater image freely. Logan and Jennah loved each other, but due to the situation, and aspects of it, it wasn't working.

She states in both Kellach's Attack and The Queen's Justice that she loves him, and it's established elsewhere (iirc it was Edge of Destiny) that she could not make her feelings public because she has enemies that would make use of this. Those enemies are, of course, Caudecus and his cronies. She does want a partner not a servant, and this is why she pressed him into leaving to fight the Elder Dragons. But status and nobility matters very little when you can just grant titles, especially for a world renown hero; further with him as Pact Marshal, he would be of high enough standing so as to be of high enough status on his own. This changed in Regrouping with the Queen, where she blatantly states that Logan is nothing more than a servant and friend and always has been.

Basically she went from this:

He is like an angel sent from Dwayna to be at my side. If things were different, or if Kryta were at peace. then perhaps...

[...]

No, Advocate. I have enough servants—I want a partner. Logan must be free to make his own decisions. I made such a mistake once before. I won't make it again.

To this:

That's not necessary. I hear the whispers, and I see with my own eyes. Logan is...a loyal servant, and a friend. I think he's coming to terms with that. At last.

It's very clear that Jennah states that she loves Logan in the PS, but in Season 3, it becomes that she never loved him and always saw Logan as a servant and friend; "I think he's coming to terms with that. At last." Almost as if she was tired of him being in love with her. She wasn't "ending the relationship", because according to Season 3 there never was a relationship or feelings coming from her.

He was nothing more than a simp of 11 years according to Season 3.

And the irony is that Season 3 was establishing the very scenario Jennah needed to publicly announce her feelings for Logan with Caudecus' revelation as White Mantle. Her main enemies gone, and Logan as Pact Marshal and renown hero who's aided in slaying Elder Dragons. He was supposed to have a desk job too, so it's not like (if he played by the rules set for him) his life would have been in danger on the battlefield.

Quote

Logan also explicitly stated that he had started seeing somebody in season 4/IBS though he doesn't give a name, and in EoD he talks about buying a vacation home in southsun.  So he has a healthy relationship and is content.

Its in Eye of the North, and the phrasing makes it sound like he's sleeping around, not settling down in a healthy relationship. Given he's wanting to retire with Rytlock, seems he's retiring alone.

Edited July 23, 2022 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Kalavier.1097]

1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

She states in both Kellach's Attack and The Queen's Justice that she loves him, and it's established elsewhere (iirc it was Edge of Destiny) that she could not make her feelings public because she has enemies that would make use of this. Those enemies are, of course, Caudecus and his cronies. She does want a partner not a servant, and this is why she pressed him into leaving to fight the Elder Dragons. But status and nobility matters very little when you can just grant titles, especially for a world renown hero; further with him as Pact Marshal, he would be of high enough standing so as to be of high enough status on his own. This changed in Regrouping with the Queen, where she blatantly states that Logan is nothing more than a servant and friend and always has been.

A: Implying Caudecus is literally the only person who would object to that.

B: Implying the nobility (not the Ministers) would accept her going "I hearby declare Logan is a noble. Also we are dating".

C: That line in S3 is said to all people. A Norn or Charr would have never seen the previous lines. 

This also occurs quite literally after Estelle threatened Logan after he leapt into action to defend Jennah, which tied into the human PS where she mentioned that if he's worried about her, he slips up. 

1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Basically she went from this:

He is like an angel sent from Dwayna to be at my side. If things were different, or if Kryta were at peace. then perhaps...

[...]

No, Advocate. I have enough servants—I want a partner. Logan must be free to make his own decisions. I made such a mistake once before. I won't make it again.

To this:

That's not necessary. I hear the whispers, and I see with my own eyes. Logan is...a loyal servant, and a friend. I think he's coming to terms with that. At last.

It's very clear that Jennah states that she loves Logan in the PS, but in Season 3, it becomes that she never loved him and always saw Logan as a servant and friend; "I think he's coming to terms with that. At last." Almost as if she was tired of him being in love with her. She wasn't "ending the relationship", because according to Season 3 there never was a relationship or feelings coming from her.

 

To me this is her publicly ended the rumors, and freeing Logan to fully go out into the world because their relationship cannot happen thanks to the nobility, not just Caudecus.

I read this entire sequence as both Jennah and Logan understanding the relationship cannot happen, despite their feelings, and splitting.

1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

He was nothing more than a simp of 11 years according to Season 3.

And the irony is that Season 3 was establishing the very scenario Jennah needed to publicly announce her feelings for Logan with Caudecus' revelation as White Mantle. Her main enemies gone, and Logan as Pact Marshal and renown hero who's aided in slaying Elder Dragons. He was supposed to have a desk job too, so it's not like (if he played by the rules set for him) his life would have been in danger on the battlefield.

This first bit just makes it sound like an attempt to bash Jennah or Logan, saying that them admitting their relationship can't happen because of the nobility of DR not accepting it is an indicator that he was stupid, or seeking love without any being given back (despite that being completely untrue).

 

Caudecus wasn't the only enemy of Jennah, just the ringleader and most powerful. He served as the Minister enemy, not the nobility enemy, who are unrelated.

After Estelle's threat, you can even talk to one of the other ladies in the throne room (when regrouping) and she talks about the relationship between Logan and Jennah, and that it's good he's not so attached. In the public eye, they are split.

 

Which of course does effectively leave the possibility that the two can still be in love, as Logan does not mention any names, and Jennah can disguise herself. Logan stops being so obvious about his feelings, the rumors end, people stop using him as a weapon against Jennah.

1 hour ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Neither was Salma and her mother. Illegitimate children seldom are. Until there are no legitimate heirs and their lineage is (re)discovered.

And you don't think suddenly pulling a "AHA, but logan was a noble/royal bloodline all along and nothing at all, across all of GW1 and GW2 has ever implied it to be so" would be a completely BS move, especially if used to make him and Jennah publicly start dating?

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

25 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

A: Implying Caudecus is literally the only person who would object to that.

B: Implying the nobility (not the Ministers) would accept her going "I hearby declare Logan is a noble. Also we are dating".

😄 That line in S3 is said to all people. A Norn or Charr would have never seen the previous lines. 

This also occurs quite literally after Estelle threatened Logan after he leapt into action to defend Jennah, which tied into the human PS where she mentioned that if he's worried about her, he slips up.

A) It's not me making that implication, but the game itself, especially the novel Edge of Destiny, where Queen Jennah outright tells Logan she has enemies in the court while looking straight at Caudecus (subtlety this mesmer does not have).

B) Most nobility in Kryta probably wouldn't care given how it is often depicted, especially since Logan is a huge heroic figure and their romantic feelings for each other is an open topic gossip throughout the core game (and even Season 3, but it's changed to "oh silly Logan can't see she doesn't care for him" as evident with the Ladies-In-Waiting which also straight up talk up Faren as "the new gossip-topic hottie").

C) That's irrelevant to my point though? The point is that Jennah explicitly stated she has feelings for Logan, and in Season 3 she talks as though she never did. This indicates a retcon, and the player race is irrelevant - Norn and Charr would also have never had a chance to meet Confessor Esthel either, but Confessor's End instance still talks about it, as well as every other human story plotline. I don't get what your argument here is.

And no, it doesn't happen "literally after" Estelle, it happens two full story instances. You have A Meeting of Ministers (Estelle situation) -> Eyes on Lake Doric -> Sabotage Fort Saidra -> Breaking the Siege -> Regrouping with the Queen (when Jennah states her "never changed" feelings). And the PS dialogue doesn't say "he slips up" just that she's worried for him, and here? She shows no emotion for him beyond being insulted at Estelle insulting Logan, and instead expresses annoyance over Logan taking so long to get that she doesn't have feelings for him.

And here's the thing: if Jennah was worried for Logan's safety, she would not be pushing him away into the Pact and fighting the literal most threatening force in the world (Elder Dragons).

25 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

To me this is her publicly ended the rumors, and freeing Logan to fully go out into the world because their relationship cannot happen thanks to the nobility, not just Caudecus.

I read this entire sequence as both Jennah and Logan understanding the relationship cannot happen, despite their feelings, and splitting.

Except it is neither public nor freeing Logan. Logan had been free since the personal story, specifically Caudecus's Manor, where she explicitly tells Logan to go out and don't come back until his job is done:

Queen Jennah: No, no need for that. I appreciate your rescue, but you have your own journey. One that leads beyond Divinity's Reach.

Logan Thackeray: There are dangers that threaten you here.

Queen Jennah: There are dangers that face all of us, Logan. All of our world. There are things only you can do.

Logan Thackeray: You're right. So much has been left unfinished. Much to make amends for. I should go.

Queen Jennah: And I will be waiting for your return.

What you're talking about happened 5 years before Season 3. Regrouping with the Queen dialogue is not Jennah "freeing Logan to fully go out into  the world" nor is it "Jennah and Logan understanding the relationship cannot happen" (and let me ask you this: what relationship can work for Jennah, if a world famous hero and slayer of Elder Dragons is not a viable king consort? By that kind of mentality, even the Pact Commander isn't a viable husband for Jennah - no one is because a world saving hero is apparently not enough), her words are very clearly in the flavor of "she never cared".

 

And what's more ironic is that Logan doesn't even leave his duties as Seraph Captain, as in Drizzlewood he for some reason shows up as a Seraph captain to assist the High Legions. So again, no "freeing Logan to fully go out into the world" because he's still her servant.

 

25 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

This first bit just makes it sound like an attempt to bash Jennah or Logan, saying that them admitting their relationship can't happen because of the nobility of DR not accepting it is an indicator that he was stupid, or seeking love without any being given back (despite that being completely untrue).

It isn't bashing "them admitting their relationship can't happen", because Jennah isn't saying the relationship can't happen because of nobility (which is something no one says btw), but rather Jennah is saying that she never had feelings for him.

 

So when Logan was stuck in a one-sided infatuation that was never once reciprocated, yes that is what simping is. Not bashing, just using modern terminology to define it.

25 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Caudecus wasn't the only enemy of Jennah, just the ringleader and most powerful. He served as the Minister enemy, not the nobility enemy, who are unrelated.

Caudecus was the only enemy that Jennah was truly weary of as evident by Edge of Destiny novel.

25 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

After Estelle's threat, you can even talk to one of the other ladies in the throne room (when regrouping) and she talks about the relationship between Logan and Jennah, and that it's good he's not so attached. In the public eye, they are split.

According to Season 3, in public eye they were never a thing and Jennah never cared, only affirmed by Jennah saying the same.

 

But ambient dialogue in Divinity's Reach - even among nobility - is that Logan and Jennah are destined to be together.

25 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

And you don't think suddenly pulling a "AHA, but logan was a noble/royal bloodline all along and nothing at all, across all of GW1 and GW2 has ever implied it to be so" would be a completely BS move, especially if used to make him and Jennah publicly start dating?

Not really, since it was pretty solidly foreshadowed the entire time.

• The Movement of the World saying that "only a true heir of Ascalon" can cleanse the Foefire.
• Ascalon Catacombs having Eir setting it up for Logan to receive Madgaer.
• Magdaer and Sohothin required to end the Foefire.

 

The set up is there. Logan receives Magdaer, cleanses the Foefire with Rytlock's assistance, and becomes accepted as the true heir of Ascalon through legend and myth. It's all very King Arthur style typical fantasy setup for the Return of the King style trope.

[Shadow Yzf.9186]

In my humble opinion, Logan doesn't deserve to be happy. Some died due to his OBSESSION with Jennah. That's why Rytlock hates him. I read the novel Edge of Destiny and I can't help hating him as well. He is nothing more than a beta male.

[JTGuevara.9018]

16 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Neither was Salma and her mother. Illegitimate children seldom are. Until there are no legitimate heirs and their lineage is (re)discovered.

She states in both Kellach's Attack and The Queen's Justice that she loves him, and it's established elsewhere (iirc it was Edge of Destiny) that she could not make her feelings public because she has enemies that would make use of this. Those enemies are, of course, Caudecus and his cronies. She does want a partner not a servant, and this is why she pressed him into leaving to fight the Elder Dragons. But status and nobility matters very little when you can just grant titles, especially for a world renown hero; further with him as Pact Marshal, he would be of high enough standing so as to be of high enough status on his own. This changed in Regrouping with the Queen, where she blatantly states that Logan is nothing more than a servant and friend and always has been.

Basically she went from this:

He is like an angel sent from Dwayna to be at my side. If things were different, or if Kryta were at peace. then perhaps...

[...]

No, Advocate. I have enough servants—I want a partner. Logan must be free to make his own decisions. I made such a mistake once before. I won't make it again.

To this:

That's not necessary. I hear the whispers, and I see with my own eyes. Logan is...a loyal servant, and a friend. I think he's coming to terms with that. At last.

It's very clear that Jennah states that she loves Logan in the PS, but in Season 3, it becomes that she never loved him and always saw Logan as a servant and friend; "I think he's coming to terms with that. At last." Almost as if she was tired of him being in love with her. She wasn't "ending the relationship", because according to Season 3 there never was a relationship or feelings coming from her.

He was nothing more than a simp of 11 years according to Season 3.

And the irony is that Season 3 was establishing the very scenario Jennah needed to publicly announce her feelings for Logan with Caudecus' revelation as White Mantle. Her main enemies gone, and Logan as Pact Marshal and renown hero who's aided in slaying Elder Dragons. He was supposed to have a desk job too, so it's not like (if he played by the rules set for him) his life would have been in danger on the battlefield.

Its in Eye of the North, and the phrasing makes it sound like he's sleeping around, not settling down in a healthy relationship. Given he's wanting to retire with Rytlock, seems he's retiring alone.

See, it is in-depth explanations like this that solidify to me that season 3 was the WORST season of them all. The out-of-the-blue Balthazar reveal, the gw1 fan-service with the White Mantle(I say that as a gw1 fan) and as you say, Logan and Jennah's mishandling, the super-duper Shining Blade secret clubhouse with the secret password! Just...(shakes head)...yeah!

As far as Logan and Jennah goes, I was always puzzled by Logan hate. If there's anything that is the culprit for this enmity for Thackeray is that 'Edge of Destiny' book. That book destroyed Logan's and Jennah's reputations(and possibly humanity in gw2). Obsessed fans pretty much jumped down their throats based on what they read there.

It's all just comical to me, looking back at all this snarling over a prequel for a game that didn't even release yet lmao! Depending on who ya talk to, it may be the worst of the gw2 prequel books lmao!

[Zola.6197]

I have to agree with @Kalavier.1097 on this one. Even the dialogue in S3 has a strong subtext that she’s essentially decided to distance herself from Logan because they can’t realistically and safely be together, and that she wants to free him from the burden of loving her. “We’re just friends and always have been. He understands that now,” when taken at face value is one thing, but in the context of their relationship paints a different picture. This is the narrative she’s pushing now, because that’s the way she feels things have to be; anything else is a fancy she can’t afford. It’s certainly not a new story - it’s pretty common to see a character pushing their lover away because “we can’t be together” for x reason, especially if there’s a class divide.

 

And it fits well with the Woman Wearing The Queenly Mask trope I’ve always felt Jennah falls into: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWomanWearingTheQueenlyMask

 

 

Edited July 24, 2022 by Zola.6197

[Ashantara.8731]

For everyone who is using the dark forum theme like me and cannot read dark grey text on an anthracite background:

On 7/22/2022 at 8:33 PM, Zola.6197 said:

Let the shipping wars commence! 🤡

 

I remember hearing of a potential/cut plot line wherein Queen Jennah would abdicate the throne to be with finally be with Logan, as her position in society prevented her from openly being with him for whatever reason. She’d only do this if she could find a suitable replacement, which I believe the locket was meant to factor into - hinting that there may be another blood successor to the throne of Kryta (I could be misremembering though).

The notion of Jennah abdicating the throne to be with her love and live a life of adventure with him is an idea I find compelling and sweet.

However, I believe there was something of a shipping wars internally at ANet, with a faction of people rooting for Logan to get with Ellen Kiel. I’m not sure I’ve ever seen them interact much, but perhaps it was a bigger thing in season 1?

The last hint we got regarding Logan’s love life was in Icebrood Saga where it was revealed Logan was dating again, seemingly moving on from Jennah. Could it be Ellen Kiel, or perhaps a new lady?

If they ever gave focus to Logan’s love life again, is there a couple you’d prefer? Or would you rather they never circle back to it?

Personally, I like Jennah and Logan. It was set up in the core game, and I like the element of them yearning to be together, and then finally realizing their wish. However they did hint that he’d moved on, so maybe it would be regressive to have him get back with Jennah who kept him at arms length out of her sense of duty. Still, walking away from royal life would be a big sign of commitment lol.

In general I like getting invested in the personal lives of the companions. I’ve really liked learning about Rytlock’s past through Crecia (and Ryland). I like whatever is brewing between Taimi and Gorrik. I loved Marjory’s Looking Back achievement, and the epilogue with her and Kas announcing their engagement was a highlight of EoDs. It makes the game feel deeper and more meaningful to me when we get to learn more about the inner lives all these characters lead when we’re not fighting baddies, and romance can certainly be a part of that! Any opportunities to expand these characters lives would be great!

[Zola.6197]

39 minutes ago, Ashantara.8731 said:

For everyone who is using the dark forum theme like me and cannot read dark grey text on an anthracite background:

Strange! Maybe it’s because I wrote it in my notes and pasted it from there. I saw the font sizing was off but couldn’t figure out how to fix that. Didn’t know the color was abnormal.

Edit: Okay, I think the formatting in the first post is fixed now.

Edited July 24, 2022 by Zola.6197

[Kalavier.1097]

4 hours ago, Zola.6197 said:

I have to agree with @Kalavier.1097 on this one. Even the dialogue in S3 has a strong subtext that she’s essentially decided to distance herself from Logan because they can’t realistically and safely be together, and that she wants to free him from the burden of loving her. “We’re just friends and always have been. He understands that now,” when taken at face value is one thing, but in the context of their relationship paints a different picture. This is the narrative she’s pushing now, because that’s the way she feels things have to be; anything else is a fancy she can’t afford. It’s certainly not a new story - it’s pretty common to see a character pushing their lover away because “we can’t be together” for x reason, especially if there’s a class divide.

 

And it fits well with the Woman Wearing The Queenly Mask trope I’ve always felt Jennah falls into: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWomanWearingTheQueenlyMask

 

 

And see how even in S1, the replay. Logan is intensely overprotective of her still, when directly guarding Jennah is Anise's job, not his. Then in S3, he does it again, with Jennah replying "I can handle this, I need you guarding the city"

Logan and Jennah love each other, but Jennah comments in human PS that Logan allows his worry of her to blind him, causing him to make mistakes. And if he gets hurt in the process of trying to protect her directly, she would feel guilty.

So after once again having Logan leap into action when he shouldn't even be out of bed yet, and then is almost directly killed by Estelle who boasts/brags about "putting him out of his lovesick misery" They can't publicly be together, but even their love is affecting their duties in a way. 

Which is why I view it as Jennah and Logan agreeing to turn it platonic, together.

[Ashantara.8731]

3 hours ago, Zola.6197 said:

Maybe it’s because I wrote it in my notes and pasted it from there.

Yes, never do that as this forum's editor adopts formatting. 🙂

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

6 hours ago, Zola.6197 said:

I have to agree with @Kalavier.1097 on this one. Even the dialogue in S3 has a strong subtext that she’s essentially decided to distance herself from Logan because they can’t realistically and safely be together, and that she wants to free him from the burden of loving her. “We’re just friends and always have been. He understands that now,” when taken at face value is one thing, but in the context of their relationship paints a different picture. This is the narrative she’s pushing now, because that’s the way she feels things have to be; anything else is a fancy she can’t afford. It’s certainly not a new story - it’s pretty common to see a character pushing their lover away because “we can’t be together” for x reason, especially if there’s a class divide.

 

And it fits well with the Woman Wearing The Queenly Mask trope I’ve always felt Jennah falls into: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWomanWearingTheQueenlyMask

The problem of course is how the heck Jennah is going to have any heir if she never settles down. And why not settle down with someone she loves, if she could? It makes no logical sense, which is what The Woman Wearing The Queenly Mask trope is about - taking logical choices for the good of country over personal desires. Pushing Logan away when he's already away 90% of the time fighting Elder Dragons does nothing for the good of the country.

 

In this scenario, it would be another matter if there was actually someone in position to become king consort besides Logan. But Jennah can be the "strong, stoic, logical leader" while also marrying a world-renowned hero to produce a strong heir and ensure the longevity of the kingdom's leadership. Especially since she should be pushing into her 40s now.

The lack of an heir would no doubt be a huge detriment to Jennah's popularity and a tool for her enemies to use. And a huge detriment to the nation at large if she happens to be assassinated or just heavily injured.

1 hour ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

And see how even in S1, the replay. Logan is intensely overprotective of her still, when directly guarding Jennah is Anise's job, not his.

A quick note about how Season 1 was written: The devs wrote it in the context that it could be played at any point. Although it is presented as post-Personal Story now, during the original writing and recording of lines, all the characters had to make sense in the context of players not doing any of the PS or previous S1 releases. In text, they solved this via dialogue trees, but couldn't do that with voiced lines.

It would also be notable that they removed some of Logan's overprotectiveness in the re-release, but since they wrote it from the perspective of pre-Caudecus' Manor events (which is probably why he's even present despite end of PS he said he wouldn't return to Kryta until all dragons are dead), where he never got told off for being overprotective.

Quote

Then in S3, he does it again, with Jennah replying "I can handle this, I need you guarding the city"

IMO, he's not nearly as overprotective in S3 as he is pre-CM. But he is a Captain of the Seraph, it's literally his job to jump in the way between Jennah and danger. It's in his job description. So just because he does his job, doesn't mean he's being overprotective.

[The Greyhawk.9107]

The lack of a known heir has been extremely disconcerting.  To the best of my knowledge nothing about the subject has been addressed since season two with that short bit about with the Royal heir detecting magic artifact, which was promptly forgotten about.  And I can't trust Anet to have an answer for this waiting for the right time, too many people have come and gone, and a particular cynical part of me is inclined to think the current batch doesn't care.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

2 hours ago, The Greyhawk.9107 said:

The lack of a known heir has been extremely disconcerting.  To the best of my knowledge nothing about the subject has been addressed since season two with that short bit about with the Royal heir detecting magic artifact, which was promptly forgotten about.  And I can't trust Anet to have an answer for this waiting for the right time, too many people have come and gone, and a particular cynical part of me is inclined to think the current batch doesn't care.

I believe the heirloom locket was specifically a plot brainchild of Angel McCoy and it was dropped with her departure at the end of Season 3.

Not 100% sure on this but that's what I recall.

So yeah unless a newer dev gets invested in the heir to the throne plotline, it won't likely come back. And even if it did, probably won't include the locket.

[JTGuevara.9018]

16 minutes ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

I believe the heirloom locket was specifically a plot brainchild of Angel McCoy and it was dropped with her departure at the end of Season 3.

Not 100% sure on this but that's what I recall.

So yeah unless a newer dev gets invested in the heir to the throne plotline, it won't likely come back. And even if it did, probably won't include the locket.

God...

A rotating crop of writers and devs is bad, bad, bad. Plot lines being generated and dropped willy-nilly is a disaster for any medium, never mind a game.

[ugrakarma.9416]

Logan cann't resist the new Queen Jennah, and become mad. 

 

https://gw2style.com/look.php?id=18098

[Fenom.9457]

On 7/22/2022 at 2:53 PM, Zola.6197 said:

I’m pretty sure Jennah didn’t mind control Logan haha. That’d be dark. From my understanding, he was her devoted knight, and he was in love with her to boot (and she, with him). She requested he return to protect her because of the machinations of enemies to her throne, and he left Destiny’s Edge to help her instead of his companions who were getting ready to fight Kralk. Him abandoning DE is why they blame him for their loss against Kralk, mainly because he chose to do so. I don’t think they’d blame him if he was magically forced into leaving them.

 

As for Kiel, I do think she had a fling with Zalambur (is that his name?). But in the EoDs epilogue in Aborstone, she tells us flat out she’s used her travels through Elona and now Cantha as an… ahem, man-buffet, let’s say.

 

So it doesn’t seem like she’s seriously attached based on that. But uhhh maybe Logan likes to share? 😂

i was gonna say, they won’t ship Ellen with anyone most likely cause they all but directly said she’s a ... uhm, frequent enjoyer of new friends.  She seemingly doesn’t want one partner and even if she did wouldn’t that stuff bother Logan 😂

[Einsof.1457]

Logan is gay and so is Jennah. 

[DarcShriek.5829]

On 7/30/2022 at 6:26 PM, Einsof.1457 said:

Logan is gay and so is Jennah. 

Logan is a gay furry.  He's got it bad for Rytlock.

[Einsof.1457]

43 minutes ago, DarcShriek.5829 said:

Logan is a gay furry.  He's got it bad for Rytlock.

GW2 needs more furry representation.