Ranged classes

[Pati.2438]

So after you hard punish melee classes back then with making ccs to just 0 damage. How about now hard punish ranged classes by nerf their spam damage for about 50%? would be only fair ^^

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

After EOD release, this game is officially full of 90% anti-projectile uptime.

Not sure what this thread is complaining about.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

28 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

After EOD release, this game is officially full of 90% anti-projectile uptime.

Not sure what this thread is complaining about.

true but thats cuz 60% of the enemy comp is ranged.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

I like my good old fashioned anti-projectile uptime.. the pillars in Colliseum.

Edited July 26, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Sahne.6950]

*happy Tempest noises* 😉

[Pati.2438]

Tho should have renamed this threat in why the heck is DE not nerved yet. Get a 9k hit just out of stealth on range is not funny. Get unblockable stability ignore cced is also not funny (on range). Not been able to punish that broken range kitten cause gues what you ccs does only cc and he could just simply port is complete stupid lel xD. (also I dont even mentioned the 2-3k auto attack chains that a DE could do sitting on range and press the 1 button xD)

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

DE still sucks.

It needed those buffs tbh.

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

7 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

DE still sucks.

Somebody better tell Azzardome so he doesn't win the next MAT with one again 😂

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

8 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

Somebody better tell Azzardome so he doesn't win the next MAT with one again 😂

You act like you believe MATs aren't sold.

Ask yourself this: Why would a bunch of top tier players ignore a DE the entire game when everything in this meta has teleport and reveal?

[ASP.8093]

11 hours ago, Pati.2438 said:

Tho should have renamed this threat in why the heck is DE not nerved yet. Get a 9k hit just out of stealth on range is not funny. Get unblockable stability ignore cced is also not funny (on range). Not been able to punish that broken range kitten cause gues what you ccs does only cc and he could just simply port is complete stupid lel xD. (also I dont even mentioned the 2-3k auto attack chains that a DE could do sitting on range and press the 1 button xD)

The 2-3k attacks aren't autos. They cost initiative. Getting hit with a bunch in a row is like eating a Rapid Fire — of course it's gonna hurt, the whole class/weapon would be useless if it didn't. The actual DE autos do about as much damage per hit as Dagger attacks, at a much slower rate. No stronger than Necro Axe or Ele Scepter autos.

The rifle stealth attack is probably the "fairest" stealth attack in the game, since it reveals them as soon as they start casting and there's a big laser beam line to tell you it's coming. It's not uncommon to see a charged-up one hit for only 6k-7k in SPvP.

Deadeye Mark isn't unblockable, that's only Daredevil Swipe. Binding Shadow (the big Deadeye combo CC utility skill): also not unblockable.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

9 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

DE still sucks.

It needed those buffs tbh.

Deadeye has on average 40% of team damage in recent matches. With one support, it should be at most 30%, which would already mean pulling more weight than the other three damagers.

 

Like Elementalist, it sucks in the hands of bad players, that's all.

 

There's a big difference between DE and Ranger here; Ranger has a big fat pet in tow usually, has no advantage of surprise without Trapper runes (now nerfed), their main damage source is channeled, all of which allow plenty of oppertunities to projectile hate counterplay.

 

Good Deadeyes can down someone before reflects even go up, if they know what they're doing.

Edited July 29, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Terrorhuz.4695]

1 hour ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

everything in this meta has teleport and reveal?

Shadow Meld more like Shadow Mald

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1 hour ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

Deadeye has on average 40% of team damage in recent matches. With one support, it should be at most 30%, which would already mean pulling more weight than the other three damagers.

 

Like Elementalist, it sucks in the hands of bad players, that's all.

 

There's a big difference between DE and Ranger here; Ranger has a big fat pet in tow usually, has no advantage of surprise without Trapper runes (now nerfed), their main damage source is channeled, all of which allow plenty of oppertunities to projectile hate counterplay.

 

Good Deadeyes can down someone before reflects even go up, if they know what they're doing.

Yeah when you're playing Unranked and Ranked in low population when you get p2+ in games with bottom plats and mid golds and sometimes silver. <- In this environment very specifically, it allows things like a DE to target the low tiered players to generate easy downs because those low tiered players don't know how to deal with the DE. This is deceiving because it makes it feel like DE is very strong.

However in say the semi-finals and final rounds of ATs, you get a bunch of p2+ or bottom plat at the worst, and those players actually are rolling good team comps with a ton of anti-projectile play, they know how to use their reveals and tele-bursts, and they know how to LOS. <- In this environment, DE is still useless and still explodes on contact from things like a Power Herald or Willbender or DH pull or Bladesworn DT, or god forbid the Sic Em OWP Soulbeast, anything like that. Doesn't matter how good the DE player is in the semis or finals, there are better options to bring into the match than a DE. The only exception would be again, if the team the DE was against was some middle tiered team rolling a bunch of slow stuff with no tele-burst or reveal, like Necros with no Support, and in that situation the match is like Unranked or Ranked, where the DE is a great noob mulching option to quickly generate kills. But I 100% guarantee you that a great Specter player right now is far more dangerous in every mentionable way than any DE player.

DE is certainly viable after the buffs, but it still sucks compared to a great Specter player.

Edited July 29, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Spellhunter.9675]

25 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Yeah when you're playing Unranked and Ranked in low population when you get p2+ in games with bottom plats and mid golds and sometimes silver. <- In this environment very specifically, it allows things like a DE to target the low tiered players to generate easy downs because those low tiered players don't know how to deal with the DE. This is deceiving because it makes it feel like DE is very strong.

However in say the semi-finals and final rounds of ATs, you get a bunch of p2+ or bottom plat at the worst, and those players actually are rolling good team comps with a ton of anti-projectile play, they know how to use their reveals and tele-bursts, and they know how to LOS. <- In this environment, DE is still useless and still explodes on contact from things like a Power Herald or Willbender or DH pull or Bladesworn DT, or god forbid the Sic Em OWP Soulbeast, anything like that. Doesn't matter how good the DE player is in the semis or finals, there are better options to bring into the match than a DE. The only exception would be again, if the team the DE was against was some middle tiered team rolling a bunch of slow stuff with no tele-burst or reveal, like Necros with no Support, and in that situation the match is like Unranked or Ranked, where the DE is a great noob mulching option to quickly generate kills. But I 100% guarantee you that a great Specter player right now is far more dangerous in every mentionable way than any DE player.

DE is certainly viable after the buffs, but it still sucks compared to a great Specter player.

BuT TeApOt SAiD dedaeae StRonK?

[Eddbopkins.2630]

I think a fair nerf to projectile classes would be that projectiles do less damage the further away you are. Bullets and arrows lose speed and penetration force at long distances so why shouldn't ranger long bow  do less damage at 1200 range verses 200 range?

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

> I think a fair nerf to projectile classes would be that projectiles do less damage the further away you are.

In fact we have the opposite situation right now:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Long_Range_Shot

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spatial_Surge

Edited July 29, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[shion.2084]

I have a hard time against a good deadeye.   I can't chase them down before they disappear again.... they just eat me for breakfast.   Folks like Washie and End Orphan are a pain to me in 1 v 1.  I have to get real lucky to catch them. 

I could probably counter the build by taking more reflects and invulns and doing a more health amulet... but it would basically mean I did nothing other than manage to stalemate the DE's.   I got better against Washie where I was 1 kill for every 3 encounters... but on certain maps no way.  My only option would be to run.... and they seem to follow fast.

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

2 hours ago, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

> I think a fair nerf to projectile classes would be that projectiles do less damage the further away you are.

In fact we have the opposite situation right now:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Long_Range_Shot

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spatial_Surge

Dude, projectiles have been being nerfed since day 1. They just kept adding more and more and more anti-projectile skills and lowering CDs of those skills. Projectiles DO NOT need nerfing in GW2.

Also, you realize that all of these things in the game now with teleport-bursting that goes through objects with 15k - 20k melee bursts are essentially ranged attacks right? Like super ranged attacks that don't even have travel animation time or any sound to indicate telegraph.

At higher levels of play, everyone knows how to hug & utilize LOS, which immediately neutralizes most of the ranged attack potential to begin with and we aren't even talking anti-projectile skills like Swirling Winds or CPC yet. But melee tele-bursting ignores all LOS like this but it is still a ranged attack. These classes with tele-burst melee lately tend to have nearly twice the mobility of classic ranged classes to the point that if something like a Willbender engages you and you are a Ranger, there is no reason to even run from it because you can't. Your best bet is to stand your ground and 1v1 it.

My friend, projectile based classes do not need nerfing. I wouldn't even say they need buffing, but rather the game's dynamic needs some reworking to make sure projectiles stay relevant because there really is officially way too much anti-projectile in the game after EOD and more than enough mobility creep across all classes to make sure anyone can easily close the gap to a ranged attacker to turn their ranged advantage immediately into melee range, where they are at a disadvantage.

If anything, they need to reduce the durations of some of these anti-projectile skills. It's ridiculous lately actually. Good Ele players as example, are virtually invulnerable vs. projectiles at the end of 2022 here. It's too much.

I have discussed this many times in this forum as well as has many other Ranger mains. Projectile play in GW2 has a weird curve in the efficiency of its use. Projectiles feel very strong at bell curve or bellow play, but they struggle in higher tier play. You've got to understand that when you're against g3 and lower, people don't understand how to utilize LOS so projectile play feels strong. You have guys running at you across an open space to get to you while you fire into their face, or they run away from you in a direct line across an open space to get away while you fire at them. You have people standing at mid taking shots to their face while you're up on a hill above them, never trying to get to LOS and never using any anti-projectile counter play because they are either 1) not experienced enough to react or 2) running the wrong builds. But it works nothing like this in say a p2+ vs p2+ game in an AT final round. <- In this situation, everyone on the enemy team knows you are on a DE and they know how to exploit your weaknesses. Everyone is going to stealth approach mid or w/e route they take and the very instant you appear, you're gonna have a bunch of melee tele-burst pumping massive cross burst one-shot damage onto your head with enormously inescapable CC potential & reveal to boot, and you're going to die before you can even react to it. Even if you're sneaky and stagger in behind your team while they draw aggro, all it takes is 1x tele-burst to kill you the moment they shift and put the call target on your head. In these kinds of games like this p2+ vs p2+, glass cannon projectiles like DE have to be so ridiculously tip toe with everything they do, more often than not they end up not contributing very much at all because they end up being way more worried about not dying and avoiding everything than they are actually contributing DPS or standing on a node, which they can hardly do at all. In higher tiers of play, projectile based classes struggle. This is very visible just from watching who makes it to semis & finals in MATs.

And we can INB4 discussing the occasional maverick on a non-meta class who is good enough to carry it into a final round. It does happen sometimes. But 90% of what you see making it to semis & finals in p2+ vs p2+ play, is all Melee Tele-Burst & Supports, and the reasons why that is are very real.

Edited July 29, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Pati.2438]

@ASP.8093 nah it is just the second skill what Deals like around 6k dmg not like Aa chain that does around 2-3k

Edited July 29, 2022 by Pati.2438

[Pati.2438]

@Trevor Boyer.6524 My dude that is just not true. Back then ranger does like 3k dmg on rapid fire and ways less on the lb 5 skill. It where pet and gs that does like the most of rangers dmg. Now ranger is like deal high dmg on range and melee. How ever what also favores ranged classes imo is the simple fact that melee classes need to cc them to deal dmg. Back then you where able to punish them at least somehow wirh 2k cc hits. Now they simply can stubrake and keep running away with full life xd. So overall the favor is for sure actually ranged classes playstyle

[ASP.8093]

1 hour ago, Pati.2438 said:

@ASP.8093 nah it is just the second skill what Deals like around 6k dmg not like Aa chain that does around 2-3k

Try it, though. Go to the SPvP lobby and try it. Ideally with Marauder/Scholar and two different +5% damage sigils, that's closest to what you can afford to run for high DPS in a real SPvP build.

[Sltrmhcaoou.2305]

I have not been keeping out with the dog kitten patches.
does DE still have anty-reveal ?
does DE still have stealth on dodge?
if so it should remain unplayable.

[kharmin.7683]

On 7/29/2022 at 9:19 AM, Mariyuuna.6508 said:

Good Deadeyes can down someone before reflects even go up, if they know what they're doing.

So.... to beat DE one needs to simply git gud?

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

1 hour ago, kharmin.7683 said:

So.... to beat DE one needs to simply git gud?

Please allow John Travolta to explain to you how LOS vs. projectiles works: https://i.imgur.com/wVkcyLK.gif

[Solitude.2097]

Btw , currently with  more ranged in the Tournaments , we see less bunkerish fights .

Plz buff Warrior Rifle , or Longbow

 

Edit: make Elemental Blast    + Chaotic Release ,   50% less transparent

Edit2: Cloacks , looks very nice when the body is titled (equiping Longbow or 2-handed sword) , but otherwise looks like a very old game . Rotate the cloacks 10-15degrees on the left , so its looks un-even and more stylish like scarfs

Edit3: Catalyst Phoenix + Water Horse animation , opacity 0.4

Edited July 30, 2022 by Solitude.2097