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Wvw Rewards - Guildpride - Serverpride.


Sahne.6950

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WvW holds BY FAR the least gold/hour out of all Gamemodes. Here is how to change that and increase guild-/Serverpride at the same time. And maybe give pve players some incentive to check wvw out, as it can be a nice passive income with Guildclaims.

 

  • Should your Guild have claimed a objective inside of WvW, every member of your guild will be rewarded gold periodically, should they be online at the time.

 

"gold-ticks" happen at every full hour. 1:00   ;  2:00  ; yada yada.

Camps will give 25 silver to every player per hour.

Tower will give 50 silver to every player per hour.

Keeps will give 1 gold to every player per hour.

Garrisons will give 2 gold to every player per hour.

Every added Tier will raise the ammount of gold by 10 silver. for example a t2 tower will give 70 silver every hour. a t3 keep will give 1,30 gold every hour.

(every player can just receive "taxes" from 1 guild at a time. Should you be in 2 guilds and both guilds have claimed something, you will receive the gold from the objective that gives the most.)

 

  • Your Whole server will get a reward depending on the place that they score.

Every player participating will get those gold rewards. You have to atleast reach the first gold Chests to receive the rewards.

 

First place gets 20 Gold.

second place gets 10 Gold.

and third one gets 5 Gold.

 

 

 

thoughts?

Edited by Sahne.6950
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15 minutes ago, FunesMori.3947 said:

So you want to reward the players that can click on claim the fastest?

ahhh yes! you sir have never claimed anything 😄

there is literally a "claim priority".

 

how would that encourage stacking? you literally dont get rewards for a maximum of 14 days after a transfer. at that time a server that has become stacked would FLYY all the way up to t1 (just look at GH flying from being a t3 link all the way to being host in t1), and they would then there face other stacked and full servers. 😄  winning a match in t4 would give the same money as winning a match in t1. Stacking would only give a huge benefit during the time you climb up in the tiers, as you will be probably winning 2 or 3 weeks in a row. BUT... you dont get the rewards during this time... There is also no way to be sure that the server you moved to will then reliably win T1....  There is also hardly a way you can transfer to the winners of t1, they are full most of the time. And those "potential T4-bandwagon-servers" will find themselves in t1 faster than they can say: BUT I SPEND 1800 GEMS FOR THIS AND NOW WE ARE GETTING ROFLSTOMPED IN T1.

The best thing you can potentially do is try and win your current skirmishes. Transfering to another server will have you loose money eventually, as you cant gain pips / the Goldchest for atleast 2 resets.

 

 

Anyways, this is more or less a idea for the timeperiod after alliances is live.. where guilds are everything kinda. They said they are gonna look into rewards, and i think this is how they could do it.

I think its odd how someone can be against a idea that is trying to bring more gold into Wvw... regardless of serverstacking, which is a problem we are already facing currently.. so thats nothing new... All this does is add more liquid gold to the gamemode....

heard you complaint tho. Acknowledged.

Edited by Sahne.6950
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8 minutes ago, AlCapwnd.7834 said:

Transfer the Thursday before and its only one week. 😃 Thats what i used to do.

you are still loosing on 2 "end rewards". You wont get the current weeks end reward when you leave on a thursday. You only shorten the time till you can get your first pips when leaving on thursdays.

You will loose a minimum of 10 Gold only to have a chance to end up in a server that will consistently win on its way to T1. You wont get rewards during those wins where you new server will climb... and in t1 you will be facing other full/very high servers....

unless you know that there is a server, which reliably wins t1... and it is open for transfer.... Bandwagoning to gain more gold is actually a gamble...  at this point just convert the gems used to transfer into gold tbh xD

 

 

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23 minutes ago, wowMuchGuildWars.6125 said:

this is heavly exploitable and incurages passive/inactive gameplay you would end up with massive ammounts of afk players farming these ticks

please explain to me how the current system is any better.....

you remember that you have to reach the goldchest to even benefit from it?

you also remember that you have to claim a objective, which you first have to take to be able to claim it?

Those people dont even have to be in WvW to get the gold ticks! aslong as you guild has a objective, every guildmember will get the rewards. If anything you will find more people sitting in towers trying to defend them... People would actually care for their objectives, as this is the thing giving them the money... They would also care to upgrade these objectives, as this is even more money for your guild. ultimatively holding more of those objectives will give EVEN MORE rewards at friday.... you see where i am going!? holding and upgrading a objective is suddenly the main way to afk farm rewards in WvW! just flipping the same camp over and over again will look incredibly ineffective, compared to actually playing for the objectives!

currently people abusing the system are afking in spawn only to flip the same spawncamp over and over again till they reach the last chest, and then they quit for the week, cuz everything that WvW has going for people that are here for the rewards is claimtickets for leggys..... zZzZzZ...  

Now they have to atleast take a objective and claim it to get the maximum efficiency of "abusing wvw to farm afk rewards".... you will always have these people. but we cant let that stop us from finally getting some moneyrewards into WvW.

 

its the same thing but with more Rewards...  it wont really fix any problems... but we will atleast get more gold. Suddenly all those Afk farmers will take a tower and claim it... IMAGINE! they will be usefull!  And the gold will spill over to PvE members of your guild, maybe giving them some incentive to also jump into WvW. A bit sad.. but the only way to draw people into it.... IS money and rewards. Maybe some people actually like WvW and will stick around. who knows.

at this point, literally anything to spice up WvW a bit should be welcome... and no: "but people will abuse it" should matter at this point, as WvW and PvP are on their last legs.... its dying my mate..... its dying.....

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9 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

please explain to me how the current system is any better.....

you remember that you have to reach the goldchest to even benefit from it?

you also remember that you have to claim a objective, which you first have to take to be able to claim it?

currently people abusing the system are afking in spawn only to flip the same spawncamp over and over again till they reach the last chest, and then they quit for the week, cuz everything that WvW has going for people that are here for the rewards is claimtickets for leggys..... zZzZzZ...  

Now they have to atleast take a objective and claim it to get the maximum efficiency of "abusing wvw to farm afk rewards".... you will always have these people. but we cant let that stop us from finally getting some moneyrewards into WvW.

 

its the same thing but with more Rewards...  it wont fix any problems... but we will atleast get more gold. And the gold will spill over to PvE members of you guild, maybe giving them some incentive to also jump into WvW.

at this point, literally anything to spice up WvW a bit should be welcome... and no: "but people will abuse it" should matter at this point. as WvW and pvp are on their last legs.... ITS DYING MY M8! its dying :CCC

The current system doesnt flood the economy with gold therefore destroying it or clog up maps in a way that real players wont be able to join. What you are sudgesting would encurage multiboxers to have a bunch of alts in the same guild at spawn while they go and flip whatever with a small number of people, you can give them participation from squad so they gain pips and get the chest.
WvW and sPvP are on their last legs but its not just because of rewards and giving out gold in a poorly thought out way isnt going to revive them.

Dont get me wrong, i like the idea of driving server/guild pride to encurage activity but i dont think that raw gold or enabling abuse of systems is the answer, i would rather have stacking reward buffs based onnumber of structure types held like 1% karma for camps, 1% magic find for towers or what ever

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33 minutes ago, wowMuchGuildWars.6125 said:

The current system doesnt flood the economy with gold therefore destroying it or clog up maps in a way that real players wont be able to join. What you are sudgesting would encurage multiboxers to have a bunch of alts in the same guild at spawn while they go and flip whatever with a small number of people, you can give them participation from squad so they gain pips and get the chest.
WvW and sPvP are on their last legs but its not just because of rewards and giving out gold in a poorly thought out way isnt going to revive them.

Dont get me wrong, i like the idea of driving server/guild pride to encurage activity but i dont think that raw gold or enabling abuse of systems is the answer, i would rather have stacking reward buffs based onnumber of structure types held like 1% karma for camps, 1% magic find for towers or what ever

Even if we would give every active WvW player 100 gold straight away.... it would not flood the economy...

with my proposed rewards the gold/hour would still be lower than fractals, lower than raids, lower than doing metas and most notably STILL LOWER THAN AFKING IN RANKED PVP!  simply afking in ranked for an hourwill give you 4x the gold than holding a keep for 1 hour. do we have to remove rewards from pvp now too, because you have people simply afking and farming it? Every participant in ATs gets atleast 5 gold currently,....  Do we have to remove the rewards there aswell!?. why would anyone waste their time getting goldchest... when they can literally afk in a AT and get the same gold in 20 minutes!? Yes people could abuse the system.. but they could also abuse the other systems currently in place... we can NOT stop evolving a gamemode because some nerd could potentially multibox it....

you seriously have to understand that simply Queueing for a AT and then taking a shower is FOUR TIMES the money that you would get from holding a Keep for a straight hour.... you would have to hold a tower for EIGHT HOURS, to reach the ammounts that you would get from hitting the QUEUE button on a AT ONCE... IF someone would multibox in AT with 5 alts, he would get 25 gold in 20 minutes....  hummmmm...

Do you want to remove the rewards there too?

There is people afking and multiboxing on Farmeable nodes.... do we remove them aswell!?

 

wowmuchguildwars: we cant have rewards anywhere, because people will use 50 accounts and farm the rewards.....  

WELCOME TO ONLINEGAMES. this is unavoidable. You always have these jerks sadly.

 

you also did not understand that you do NOT have to be on the WvW map to get the gold from the objective claims. It would be the opposite of flooding wvw as you do NOT have to be on the map to receive the rewards.

the proposed system only benefits you should you hold a objective. its not like he can claim a tower and then farm gold for YEARS. you actually have to defend it, upgrade it. YOU HAVE TO PLAY THE GAME.

your mentioned problems already persist with the current system. with the sheer difference that you can get maximum of rewards currently if you flip the same camp over and over again every 10 minutes.

with the new system, to get the new maximum gold out of Wvw thru afking they have to atleast take a objective and defend it. Objective play will be WAY more active... you can not immagine how much incentive 50 silver are for people 😛 and to get good gold out of a week, you also have to win it.... 

The gold is hidden in objectiveplay and defending, rather than flipping the spawncamp every 10 minutes.

Edited by Sahne.6950
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4 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Even if we would give every active WvW player 1k gold.... it would not flood the economy... Even with my proposed rewards the gold/hour would be lower than fractals, lower than raids, lower than doing metas and most notably STILL LOWER THAN AFKING IN RANKED PVP!  do we have to remove rewards from pvp now too, because you have people simply afking and farming it?

 

you also did not understand that you do NOT have to be on the WvW map to get the gold from the objective claims. It would be the opposite of flooding wvw as you do NOT have to be on the map to receive the rewards.

 

wowmuchguildwars: we cant have rewards anywhere, because people will use 500 accounts and farm the rewards.....  

WELCOME TO ONLINEGAMES. this is unavoidable.

 

the proposed system only benefits you should you hold a objective. its not like he can claim a tower and then farm gold for YEARS. you acutally have to defend it, upgrade it. YOU HAVE TO PLAY THE GAME.

your mentioned problems already persist with the current system. with the sheer difference that you can get maximum of rewards currently if you flip the same camp over and over again every 10 minutes.

to get the new maximum gold out of Wvw thru afking they have to atleast take a objective and defend it.

Can you re-read my post please because i didnt say you couldnt have rewards anywhere, i said rewards have to be better thought out than throwing raw gold at the problem in a way that can be exploited. Giving every wvw player 1k is actually alot, its a large chunk of a leggy weapon if not the whole thing, if you use https://gw2efficiency.com/account/statistics/statistics.gold as a rough measure (i know not everyone is registerd on the site) only about 10% of players have 1k gold or more.

Ill give you that the gold chest requirement does counter some of the problems but i still feel that raw gold is not the correct reward, stacking reward boosts or extra item drops from mobs or enemies based on held structures feels more appropriate.

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How about making the stuff we get actually worth something before we introduce more. 

Skirmish tickets? Worthless. 

Badges of honor? Almost worthless. 

Skirmish chests? 🤣

All the currencies and friends are not useful after you got the stuff you need. 

Let us trade them in for mystic coins, clovers, the material boxes etc. A way to make money with them. 

 

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Aside from stacking guilds with dummy accounts, guilds would also try to lose their own server's assets so they can flip the rewards. This could be done through various means - queueing a map with their own guild members and not showing up to defend, paying enemy commanders to double-team them, draining the supply on useless flame rams, wasting all the tactics, and so on.

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it just blows my mind that we cant have simple reward increases, because people are afraid that someone would somehow team up with enemy commanders...so they can claim a tower themselves.....yada yada....

 

Even with all of this implemented, we are not even coming close to the gold/hour of someone literally afking in custom pvpmatches.... just saying.....

whats next? we remove customgames?!  NEWSFLASH! there is literally people multiboxing in customgames RIGHT NOW!

stuff like that is happening already! Abusing this wvw-system is way more difficult and more inconsistent than literally sitting in a customgame.... 

we cant throw away every idea with: BUT PEOPLE COULD ABUSE IT.

here is a little task: Find ANY other idea on how to improve loot in wvw that is less abusable than my idea. if we keep the system as is, and just add more rewards on it, abusing it would be way simpler than the idea from the OP.  

flip camp every 10 minutes -> profit. thats literally whats happening right now.

Edited by Sahne.6950
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1 hour ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

How about making the stuff we get actually worth something before we introduce more. 

Skirmish tickets? Worthless. 

Badges of honor? Almost worthless. 

Skirmish chests? 🤣

All the currencies and friends are not useful after you got the stuff you need. 

Let us trade them in for mystic coins, clovers, the material boxes etc. A way to make money with them. 

 

I think is the way to go, instead of creating a "guild based idea" that only needs more programming resources, because it is brand new, a potential source for drama over the limited resource of claimable structures and probably very hard to track eligibility for the rewards suggested.

@Lan Deathrider.5910, myself and others have posted ideas about how to trade turn potentially worthless rewards into something useful.  

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12 minutes ago, Gorani.7205 said:

I think is the way to go, instead of creating a "guild based idea" that only needs more programming resources, because it is brand new, a potential source for drama over the limited resource of claimable structures and probably very hard to track eligibility for the rewards suggested.

@Lan Deathrider.5910, myself and others have posted ideas about how to trade turn potentially worthless rewards into something useful.  

you should delete that, before people jump in and tell you that this is abuseable and people will start multiboxing with 50 accounts.

Because the same system currently in place with more gold/hour income is more "AbUSabLe" than my idea ever was. 🤡

 

jokes aside. i am all for it btw! literally anything that improves gold/hour is much needed atm.

Emblems of Avenger?👀

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22 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

you should delete that, before people jump in and tell you that this is abuseable and people will start multiboxing with 50 accounts.

Because the same system currently in place with more gold/hour income is more "AbUSabLe" than my idea ever was. 🤡

 

jokes aside. i am all for it btw! literally anything that improves gold/hour is much needed atm.

Emblems of Avenger?👀

The suggestions previously have centered around a daily and/or weekly trader that allows for currency conversions and exchanges.

 

Things like converting MoBs into skirmish tickets, or vice versa, BoHs into tickets or MoBs and vice versa and exchanging GoBs and emblems in for tickets, Mystic Coins, and Clovers.

 

Basically a limited currency converter and a limited item exchange.

 

Unlike A.S.S. and jade runestones this would not be easily cheesed by alt accounts unless those accounts already have built up large resources of the relevant currencies and items.

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Just now, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

The suggestions previously have centered around a daily and/or weekly trader that allows for currency conversions and exchanges.

 

Things like converting MoBs into skirmish tickets, or vice versa, BoHs into tickets or MoBs and vice versa and exchanging GoBs and emblems in for tickets, Mystic Coins, and Clovers.

 

Basically a limited currency converter and a limited item exchange.

 

Unlike A.S.S. and jade runestones this would not be easily cheesed by alt accounts unless those accounts already have built up large resources of the relevant currencies and items.

yeah i am 100% onboard with the idea!

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33 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

jokes aside. i am all for it btw! literally anything that improves gold/hour is much needed atm.

Emblems of Avenger?👀

Is it really liquid gold we need as a reward?

Or is it items, materials etc. we need. I know that you can that gold is good as a universal currency, but it will contribute to more inflation and will make people across all game modes want more liquid gold as rewards.

I strongly believe we need to suggest and enforce ideas with the most limited use of programming power the Devs would need to use for better rewards, because if there is one constant in all of this: The Dev hours put into WvW are only a hair's width above the absolute minimum to maintain the mode in its current state.

PS: @Lan Deathrider.5910 just summarized the weekly trader idea very well.

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4 minutes ago, Gorani.7205 said:

Is it really liquid gold we need as a reward?

Or is it items, materials etc. we need. I know that you can that gold is good as a universal currency, but it will contribute to more inflation and will make people across all game modes want more liquid gold as rewards.

I strongly believe we need to suggest and enforce ideas with the most limited use of programming power the Devs would need to use for better rewards, because if there is one constant in all of this: The Dev hours put into WvW are only a hair's width above the absolute minimum to maintain the mode in its current state.

we all know that things like my idea will never happen, dont we?

my idea was highly theoretical.

just look at the "cornerstone" of DBL garri 😄

 

they said they are gonna rework rewards tho... so one can dream! 💫

atleast the gold for placements would be easy to implement and actually give people a incentive to play the objective.

Edited by Sahne.6950
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9 minutes ago, Gorani.7205 said:

Is it really liquid gold we need as a reward?

Or is it items, materials etc. we need. I know that you can that gold is good as a universal currency, but it will contribute to more inflation and will make people across all game modes want more liquid gold as rewards.

I strongly believe we need to suggest and enforce ideas with the most limited use of programming power the Devs would need to use for better rewards, because if there is one constant in all of this: The Dev hours put into WvW are only a hair's width above the absolute minimum to maintain the mode in its current state.

PS: @Lan Deathrider.5910 just summarized the weekly trader idea very well.

It's like a made a whole thread on it or something.

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the question is tho....

WHY NOT ADD BOTH IDEAS?

I know games where pvp/wvw is considered the endgame content and those things are the best moneymaker.

ESO is doing it with Imperialcity. A whole "gamemode" that centers around fighting people is one of if not THE best moneymaker.

it was my favorite thing to do in eso.

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6 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

the question is tho....

WHY NOT ADD BOTH IDEAS?

I know games where pvp/wvw is considered the endgame content and those things are the best moneymaker.

ESO is doing it with Imperialcity. A whole "gamemode" that centers around fighting people is one of if not THE best moneymaker.

it was my favorite thing to do in eso.

My two concerns with your ideas are as follows:

For guild claiming, which guild that gets first right to claim is not always who you would think. My guild will tag a keep and go take a camp only to come help a zerg that shows up in taking the keep, and we end up getting the first pick in claiming the keep while we were the fewest participants guild wise in the fight. Is that fair to the bigger guild that arguably did more work? Also, that opens up the door to guilds antagonizing others because of such occurrences. That is not a good thing.

For the second idea it is not clear to me if this is for a week's worth of effort or for the end of each two hour 'skirmish'. If it is for a week's effort then that gold is too low, and I would expect it to be received via mail so that everyone doesn't feel compelled to login right at reset lest they lose their week's reward. If you meant the 2 hour skirmish then that would incentivize people to afk at spawn, which people frequently complain about.

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Didn't read the entire thread just wanted to get initial thoughts out first...

 

1. You are only missing rewards from skirmish if you move, it's as short as a week if you moved on the friday before reset, as you have to be in a match on your new server from reset to next reset to qualify the week after, including the loyalty pip.

2. You still earn reward track rewards, this is always on, you still get all the other rewards from kills and captures.

3. Your idea for guild claims giving gold, will promote bigger guilds only claiming the bigger targets, a good thing I suppose, but it may even promote them not to defend a keep or smc if it's not in their name/alliance, they may let it fall and recap it themselves. Why would they care about some no name 3 man guild holding a keep that was capped overnight when they weren't on, instead of recapping it so their 40 online members can get the reward instead? In other words guilds will become more selfish than they already are.

4. You will promote server stacking. Although world restructuring may deter that in some manner by being more strict on transfers to open servers, it's still slightly possible, you will still have alliances looking for coverage in order to be able to defend their own interest on longer terms. And let's remember, alliances will just be the same size as a guild, so why wouldn't an entire alliance just fly under one guild banner to make it easier for all their online alliance members to get the gold tick. We wouldn't see multi guild alliances much after this, we'll see stacked guilds holding the biggest objective because it's the easiest exploitive way to earn that extra gold.

5. I'm assuming the 20/10/5 gold is the reward for the end of the match and not the end of the 2hr skirmish?

6. I can imagine small guilds or roamers will have a tougher time participating for the gold reward, as they will need grab and hold a tower or camp for 1hr to get the gold tick in order to qualify for the gold dump in the end. Then again off hours will have a much easier time holding stuff.

7. Do you have to be on the entire hour before in order to qualify for the gold tick (you know, to follow along that missing skirmish reward week restriction) or can you log on a minute before to get it?(which the pve people will love for sure)

 

If you want this idea to fly you will have to rework a couple things.

It shouldn't matter who has the claim, but you still want to promote every player wanting to defend all objectives hard until it gets to T3 and still be around for the gold tick. Instead of making the gold tick be for the guild, work it so it's for everyone on the server online. If you work it in to coincide with the 5min tick it would be easier as well.

Let's drop an example of getting 10c per T1-3 objective held(T0 doesn't count), every 5mins. In this method you may promote players to try and hold and upgrade as much as they can past a recapping, even guilds will more likely try to defend down to the lowly camps, and you may even promote groups splitting up to send appropriate sized groups to defend multiple objectives at once instead of just sending the blob to one. While an argument can be made that camps are easy to upgrade, they are also easy to take with upgrades not providing any real defense upgrades(like a wall), while upgraded objectives like keeps become much harder to take.

 

Rewards are difficult for wvw because players will find every single way they can to earn it in the most lazy and exploitive manner they can. They could not hand out proper servers rewards because of servers like Blackgate that paid players to stack and dominate for years, this is also why we cannot have tournaments. This is why personal rewards are much better suited for wvw. Skirmish reward track was a good idea and one they should continue to expand on, as it just requires your own play time and participation, not your guild or server in order to qualify for rewards. (first they need to even out the kitten ticket distribution per tier, like seriously). But you're better off just offering some extra gold in the skirmish chest to improve rewards for everyone.

 

P.S Don't get offended people are pointing out flaws(I tend to do both), it's helping you see the potential problems with the idea and maybe improve on it. End of the day we all would like to see rewards improved in a reasonable manner, and maybe promote more interesting strategies/gameplay in the stale 10 year old wvw ppt system.

Edited by Xenesis.6389
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So, if I understand the premise of what @Sahne.6950 is suggesting:

  • A guild would need to control the point for an hour to get any reward
  • In order to maintain the currency/hr., the guild would have to maintain the ownership of said objective
  • At the end of the week, you would get a single chest with however well your group/server/guild/alliance/whatever did for the week

So, if a guild comes in at the end of the hour, makes a claim, would the guild get the starting claim currency, or would they have to wait for the next hour tick?

@wowMuchGuildWars.6125: A similar system was in place until the mega server came into play, or the current server linking (cannot recall which).  The better your server did, the more loot you got in PvE.  Not saying I do not like the idea, just that it was something that was done, then removed.  Also, unless there has been a change, a commander is limited to 1 player per 5 players in squad for participation sharing.  So, ANet could change that requirement to mean you have to have at least 5 players in squad to allow 1 player to slack off.

I like all the ideas, hope they implement something for this mode to breath some life back into it.

Edited by Morden Kain.3489
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