Rifle Mech is now 28k DPS with 0 input from the player.

[Kodama.6453]

39 minutes ago, Treacy.4067 said:

It does sorry.  It's been explained all over the place, it's not rocket science so not sure how you're still not understanding.  AFK gameplay is not gameplay at all.  There's a reason why mechs are all over the place, there's a reason why people are rushing to do content with them because they think it will get a nerf soon (and rightfully so) and there's a reason why mechs are filling groups over other classes.  It's balance is out of whack. The old "it doesn't affect me so that must mean everyone else too" argument is nonsense as well.  

You also said " As much as you want to argue this is a balance issue, it's not, then went on to say "Again, you claim there is a 'balance aspect' .. you're right." So yes it's a balance issue.  One class shouldn't be auto attacking 28k with no input, it's not good for the game.  And again no it's not an accessibility issue.  Those types of numbers should not come from automation.  A person should be playing the game not the computer.

And engineer mains warned that this will be the case with an elite spec that replaces the entire toolbelt.

 

Our class mechanic holds an enormous amount of our power. If we are supposed to give that up, the thing we get in exchange also needs to hold that power. And anet decided to load that power on an AI pet.

But every time we warned about it, people just said "it will be fine". Now you got this mess and all that's left for me to do is having a good laugh, because we told the community repeatedly that this will happen, but nobody listened.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Kodama.6453

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

Just nerf mech so it'll have 10% of it's current output in dps/boons/condis/whatever and then add a minor trait that will bring it to 100% only if certain conditions are met:
- If you use weapon skill 2, the AA on mech will have 100% of current output for 5s.
- If you use weapon skill 3, the F1 on mech will have 100% of current output for 8s.
- etc. for 4 > F2 and 5 > F3
This will force players to actually press buttons to gain effects.

[Kodama.6453]

1 hour ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Just nerf mech so it'll have 10% of it's current output in dps/boons/condis/whatever and then add a minor trait that will bring it to 100% only if certain conditions are met:
- If you use weapon skill 2, the AA on mech will have 100% of current output for 5s.
- If you use weapon skill 3, the F1 on mech will have 100% of current output for 8s.
- etc. for 4 > F2 and 5 > F3
This will force players to actually press buttons to gain effects.

Forcing skills to always get used together, what kind of nonsense is that?

Edited August 4, 2022 by Kodama.6453

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

8 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Gorcing skills to always get used together, what kind of nonsense is that?

Deleting brainlet part of the class, while also making sure it is still strong if executed properly? Aka... Balance?

[Tails.9372]

1 hour ago, Treacy.4067 said:

There's a reason why mechs are all over the place

Yes because, like it or not, that's the gameplay most people actually prefer and if you want something different then there is also no excuse not to play it as other things have already both more damage and / or better group support.

10 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Deleting brainlet part of the class, while also making sure it is still strong if executed properly? Aka... Balance?

Balance is when the "braindead AFK builds" do exactly as much damage as the more complex ones (provided every other factor is equal).

Edited August 4, 2022 by Tails.9372

[Nash.2681]

4 minutes ago, Tails.9372 said:

Yes because, like it or not, that's the gameplay most people actually prefer and if you want something different then there is also no excuse not to play it as other things have already both more damage and / or better group support.

Sad but true. People tend to go the path of least resistance.

Anecdotal experience just yesterday: joined a w4 CM raid squad and it turned out it was 6 mechs. 6x fat ugly green bots causing incredible visual mess, at least 3x with runes of the golemancer = even more visual mess. In a game that's already infamous for its visual mess.

Not to mention that despite it was a 50kp squad, it was a complete mess. People didn't focus nor pay attention to the ridicoulus few mechanics. Took four attempts on Cairn, which alone should have been a big red warning sign, but the amount of clown fiesta at MO was unbearable. 

Yes, pugging raids always had its special flavour. There have always been terrible pug groups before EOD, no doubt, but after the beginning of the age of mech dominance, I feel it's getting worse every day.

There's so many people that'd never even touched engineer before but now go all ham on it (pun intended), probably thinking "hey, now I have the super-duper ez mode nothing-can-go-wrong build, now I will finally get the shinies!". Yet those players still don't know anything about the game and fail in the most absurd kinds of ways, it's getting really really tiresome.

If that's what A.Net considers to be "accessability", we have a fundamental different understanding of the term.

[Obtena.7952]

1 hour ago, Nash.2681 said:

Sad but true. People tend to go the path of least resistance.

Anecdotal experience just yesterday: joined a w4 CM raid squad and it turned out it was 6 mechs. 6x fat ugly green bots causing incredible visual mess, at least 3x with runes of the golemancer = even more visual mess. In a game that's already infamous for its visual mess.

Not to mention that despite it was a 50kp squad, it was a complete mess. People didn't focus nor pay attention to the ridicoulus few mechanics. Took four attempts on Cairn, which alone should have been a big red warning sign, but the amount of clown fiesta at MO was unbearable. 

Yes, pugging raids always had its special flavour. There have always been terrible pug groups before EOD, no doubt, but after the beginning of the age of mech dominance, I feel it's getting worse every day.

There's so many people that'd never even touched engineer before but now go all ham on it (pun intended), probably thinking "hey, now I have the super-duper ez mode nothing-can-go-wrong build, now I will finally get the shinies!". Yet those players still don't know anything about the game and fail in the most absurd kinds of ways, it's getting really really tiresome.

If that's what A.Net considers to be "accessability", we have a fundamental different understanding of the term.

That's the exact same situation with people picking up meta builds and doing them badly. So this isn't about how low intensity Mechanist is because in the end, when people complain others don't 'do enough' to play, that's just about their own hangups, not how the game works. This uproar is about how people want to police how other people play the game and that's unacceptable.  

Edited August 4, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Nash.2681]

16 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Here is my problem with this thinking ... that's the exact same situation with people playing meta builds. So this isn't about how low intensity Mechanist is. It's about how people want to police how other people play the game. 

In no way I want to "police how other people play the game", I just want them to actually play the game. 

I mean, the game requires us players to do X to succeed at Y. It's on thing to make X easier, but right now A.Net is tempting players to think they don't even have to do X anymore. And that's what's my impression of the current Mech situation is.

It can so easily achieve acceptable output on desired roles, that many people seem to forget that there's more to the game than hitting 1 button and enjoying big numbers / alac / etc. 

[Obtena.7952]

5 minutes ago, Nash.2681 said:

In no way I want to "police how other people play the game", I just want them to actually play the game. 

I mean, the game requires us players to do X to succeed at Y. It's on thing to make X easier, but right now A.Net is tempting players to think they don't even have to do X anymore. And that's what's my impression of the current Mech situation is.

It can so easily achieve acceptable output on desired roles, that many people seem to forget that there's more to the game than hitting 1 button and enjoying big numbers / alac / etc. 

That's just being sensational. Being successful in this game isn't JUST about DPS and it's definitely never been about how many buttons to press to get DPS. People just need to get over themselves and their ideas about how the game should work. The number of buttons a person press to do something in this game doesn't impact how other people play the game. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[soul.9651]

This is just beautiful to watch how many people are scared of losing their 0 apm no intensity mech if anet finally would wake up and started to clear their balance mess with fb and mech only meta lol

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, soul.9651 said:

This is just beautiful to watch how many people are scared of losing their 0 apm no intensity mech if anet finally would wake up and started to clear their balance mess with fb and mech only meta lol

No one is scared ... the funny part is where people ignore the fact we have always had these builds. 

[Vekks.6013]

Just now, soul.9651 said:

This is just beautiful to watch how many people are scared of losing their 0 apm no intensity mech if anet finally would wake up and started to clear their balance mess with fb and mech only meta lol

This is why I'm sitting back eating popcorn now. Watching the afkers/leeches try and defend their profession that makes it look like they're helping while they're actually across the room making coffee.

[soul.9651]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

No one is scared ... the funny part is where people ignore the fact we have always had these builds. 

True and that just shows that balance team always been slacking

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, soul.9651 said:

True and that just shows that balance team always been slacking

Or that your ideas about how the game should work aren't relevant. The fact that LI builds have always existed isn't an indication there is a balancing problem. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[soul.9651]

1 minute ago, Anscenic.3268 said:

This is why I'm sitting back eating popcorn now. Watching the afkers/leeches try and defend their profession that makes it look like they're helping while they're actually across the room making coffee.

Next post "anet please increase afk farm rewards im poor qq"

[soul.9651]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Or that your ideas about how the game should work aren't relevant. 

Or maybe your ideas arent that relevant either how about that, seeing how much confusion you are farming on forums, but hey, you surely know better, ill just keep enjoying this coment fiesta, please continue 🙂

[Obtena.7952]

5 minutes ago, soul.9651 said:

Or maybe your ideas arent that relevant either 

Well, they actually are because I support the reality of how the game works in this scenario. I don't get offended because people don't press enough buttons like other people do because it's nonsense. Clearly the fact that LI builds have existed forever means Anet isn't exactly overly sensitive to people using them to access parts of the game other people continually try to protect with their fearmongering about AFK farming and other such ridiculous claims.  

I mean, I don't have a problem with farming confusion ... it doesn't change the facts about the reality of the game. I'm certainly not sensitive to them when they come from people that think Vindicator should do 38K DPS either. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Vekks.6013]

4 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Well, they actually are because I support the reality of how the game works in this scenario. I don't get offended because people don't press enough buttons like other people. Clearly the fact that LI builds have existed forever means Anet isn't either. 

I mean, I don't have a problem with farming confusion ... that doesn't change the facts about the reality of the game.

LI builds =/= NI builds. Press enough buttons =/= Press no buttons.

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Anscenic.3268 said:

LI builds =/= NI builds. Press enough buttons =/= Press no buttons.

Sure ... except the game isn't just about doing DPS and people playing mechanists are pressing buttons so ... that's just a dishonest appraisal of how you think mechanist gets played. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[EyzKold.8247]

So your argument here is that most people are lazy to understand the basic of a game : press button game do something

You left out quite a bit there bud.  The average player is not lazy, they just don't understand all of the mechanics or how to use skills effectively.  They also don't have leet armor, runes, etc.  You can post a video with 28k dps..so what?  Some players might hit 28k dps AA.  I'm lucky to hit 10k on average.  Does that make me a bad player.  Not really.  No buffs, no food, lack of leet armor..my dps will be a lot lower.  Wifi internet connection is really bad atm 300 to 2500 ms.  

 

Your argument should be aimed at elite players not the casual player base.  If you want AA on all classes or make a change to the Mechanist elite skill,  then submit a ticket to the developers.  Maybe they will do something..or not.   Like I said before, this elite spec will get nerfed when the next expansion rolls out.  Enjoy it for what it is now because it will be in the toilet just like all other specs later.

I do hope the devs do something with ELE and Hearld.  They were really fun to play.  Revert battle scars to pre nerf for Herald and fix ele staff weapon ..and more health..it's just too low.

[Vekks.6013]

6 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Sure ... except the game isn't just about doing DPS and people playing mechanists are pressing buttons so ... that's just a dishonest appraisal of how you think mechanist gets played. 

What else is the game about? You do damage, boss/enemies dies and you get loot. It's the most honest and easy to comprehend part of the game. Making it so you can not do anything at all, and outperform people that are playing actively and engaging with the content is bad for the game. It encourages players to not pay attention, the amount of damage they passively do will be more than enough damage to completely bypass mechanics.

 

Look at an easy example that a lot of players do daily, death-branded shatterer. If your whole squad is afk autoattack mechanists right now, and I just saw this happen yesterday so I know it's easily possible, you can completely bypass and ignore all mechanics including the massive heal the boss does during riftstalker uptime. You don't need to do anything but afk a squad of mechanists at shatterer's feet and it will die, and it will die faster than a group of semi-organized pugs even doing the griffon spear shenanigan. [Hs] guild actually has been doing this same strat where they outdps the shatterer's heal during riftstalkers for a while now, but it requires them to have comped groups with quick/alac boon support in every sub to meet the average dps requirement to skip mechanics.

You see how this is bad and exploitable? Imagine being able to pull in 40 mechanist bots that you can just park at boss meta events and they will kill it with no inputs required. DPS at this level means you skip mechanics and get easier loot. So the game is almost entirely about doing DPS.

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Anscenic.3268 said:

What else is the game about?

More than just pressing buttons to do damage. I mean, there is NO discussion about how these LI builds affect how people play if you are going to ignore all the gameplay that ISN'T just doing DPS rotations. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Nash.2681]

8 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

That's just being sensational. Being successful in this game isn't JUST about DPS and it's definitely never been about how many buttons to press to get DPS. People just need to get over themselves and their ideas about how the game should work. The number of buttons a person press to do something in this game doesn't impact how other people play the game. 

You didn't get what I wrote. Ofc this game is not "JUST about DPS". Pretty much everything can successfully be done with mediocre or "ok'ish" dps, as long as people know what they're doing (aka playing mechanics correctly). Yet it's a pretty common mantra, especially among those that actually have no idea about endgame content or those that got there, yet struggled to get along.

Now giving them a class that can do good dps by simply pressing 1 button and then leaning back caters to those believing this (objectively false) mantra. And even many that should know better by now are tempted into a lazy mode, giving the rest a harder time while they do "their job" (but sadly nothing more, apparently not even the most basic mechanics), since it's oh so convenient.

As I said, that's my observation since EOD and Mech got thrown at us, getting constantly worse every time the golden child gets another update, be it substantial or QoL.

 

tl;dr: those that have no clue easily get the impression, all it takes to get things done is to press 1 button; those that should know better but are constantly looking to simplify things get tempted to get lazy and neglect other (more important) stuff

[Vekks.6013]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

More than just pressing buttons to do damage.

I just gave you a very detailed post with an example proving otherwise, and further explained why having afk builds doing this much damage is harmful. I'm not engaging further. You're just defending a clearly broken example of class design/balance that opens the game up to seriously bad bot farming that will ultimately clog up maps and meta events with afk mechanist farmers when steam hits.

 

The game deserves players that will honestly critique and point out flaws when they happen for the sake of a healthy game. But like I said a few posts back, I'm enjoying all the people here trying to defend this so they can keep exploiting it. It's really funny. But honestly, sad.

[Vekks.6013]

I appreciate all the memes and responses on this topic, but I think we've exhausted the talking points here. At this point, the feedback is submitted, and ArenaNet can choose to acknowledge or ignore at their pleasure. I hope, for the sake of the game, that the devs and balance team will provide some insight at least into why this class is designed and tuned this way and to the level it is at, and seriously consider moving more of their damage into some active abilities. Low Intensity builds are great for accessibility and are really popular, but this isn't LI. This is a 0 APM abomination. This is No Intensity.

 

Thanks again for providing your input and having a mostly civil discussion. OP is out.