What’re we losing with no sub?

[Taclism.2406]

6 hours ago, Freya.9075 said:

Maybe anet doesn’t want to be subscription model because they want to be different. Maybe they earn enough money to stay afloat and don’t get greedy like other businesses. They ofc want to make money, all businesses do. But there is a difference between a game that milks you for all the money you can spend vs a game that lets you have an option to do so or not spend any at all except buying their game. Maybe anet is this successful since many players that doesn’t want a wow game comes here. 

Yes, I literally say that 4 posts after the one you quoted ...

"My point isnt that gw2 would improve with a sub, its that gw2 economic model is bound to make them less money" 

Also said in my first post on this thread its a viable route - Anet found its "niche" public and garners good will by not milking players as you put it

This forum stuborness to deal in absolutes and misrepresent nuanced argument is so counter productive

Edited August 4, 2022 by Taclism.2406

[Zok.4956]

15 hours ago, lezbefriends.7516 said:

What’re we losing with no sub?

Nothing.

Originally F2P (Free to play, able to play everything without paying) had microtransactions and B2P (buy to play - pay once play forever) and Subscription (Pay every month as long as you want to play) had no microtransactions. This had some bigger consequences for the in-game content of F2P games (on one side) and B2P/Subscription games (on the other side).

But after the game companies saw how much money they could make with microtransactions, also B2P/Subscription games added microtransactions/in-game-cash-shop (some are better, some are worse) and since then all game companies try to increase player retention to sell more with microtransactions.

As a result the game content does not have to be that different anymore for the different payment models. It's just now more related to how greedy the game companies are.

 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Zok.4956

[Blue.1207]

Look at other games like PoE or Genshin. They operate on a pure cash shop model, and the developers there k ow how to make content that people want to consume, and are both incredibly successful at it. 
 

it’s not the cash shop, or lack of sub fee that has limited GW2’s success over nearly 10 years, it’s the studios gross mid management of the game, and failure to support, or even create a proper vision of what their game should have been. 

[Zok.4956]

1 minute ago, Blue.1207 said:

it’s not the cash shop, or lack of sub fee that has limited GW2’s success over nearly 10 years, it’s the studios gross mid management of the game, and failure to support, or even create a proper vision of what their game should have been. 

I agree.

But it's also because the game caters to a smaller player audience of MMO players who don't like typical MMOs. A lot of the special things we love about GW2 are probably the ones that keep it from being a bigger financial success.

[Reznov.5423]

17 hours ago, Aodlop.1907 said:

The only thing that's bad with the current system is that every single mount skin is a gem store item, and every cool looking weapon or piece of armor is a gem store item.

There's barely anything good looking to earn by doing in-game activities in GW2.

you know you can earn gold and get gems with gold, right?

[DexterousGecko.6328]

17 minutes ago, Reznov.5423 said:

you know you can earn gold and get gems with gold, right?

without someone paying real money as part of the transaction? Do tell, how does this work?

[Ashen.2907]

Just now, DexterousGecko.6328 said:

without someone paying real money as part of the transaction? Do tell, how does this work?

AP rewards?

Regardless, a given player can get access to gemstore content without spending real money if they are willing to give up currency earned in game.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

18 hours ago, Valisha.8650 said:

Probably all those storage expanders, bag slots, bank tabs and similar stuff.

Nah... Even sub mmos charge you for that

Edited August 4, 2022 by Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497

[Syvaris Laskaris.5247]

48 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

AP rewards?

Regardless, a given player can get access to gemstore content without spending real money if they are willing to give up currency earned in game.

I can do the same in ESO with a middle-man, ESO is still willing to have earnable mount skins.

[Ascender.5328]

Take away the free aspect of GW2 and almost everyone will be forced to either go back to single player or nothing at all I refuse to pay subscription fees simply to play a game.

[Obtena.7952]

12 hours ago, Taclism.2406 said:

I literally showed you the average money spent per player is higher in subs game

That DOESN'T mean if GW2 had a sub, it would generate more revenue. 

Quote

That I dont indeed, thats why I said we can extrapolate the game might be dead by now if it had one, since having none is one of its main selling argument right now

My point isnt that gw2 would improve with a sub, its that gw2 economic model is bound to make them less money

It's much more complicated than comparing revenues generated from other games to make that point. 

ANYWAYS ... the thread is ridiculous to begin with. It's a ruse to QQ about things the OP wants that the game doesn't have. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by Obtena.7952

[Vain.3805]

People saying the cash shop infects everything have never played a Korean MMO and it shows.

You can buy literally everything with in game currency with the gold to gems conversion.  You can buy gold with cash legally with the gems to gold conversion.  Literally everything gold spammers market to is possible within the terms of use and for those who don't wanna shell out cash don't have to.

 

If you think this game is predatory you've not heard of Diablo Immortal, have you?  None of the cash shop items are pay to win and all are earnable with in game currency.  I think a census of whales would show less gambling addicts than other games due to the absence of pay to win mechanics.

[Ashen.2907]

1 hour ago, TheSeraphim.7413 said:

ESO is still willing to have earnable mount skins.

So does GW2.

[DexterousGecko.6328]

34 minutes ago, Vain.3805 said:

People saying the cash shop infects everything have never played a Korean MMO and it shows.

You can buy literally everything with in game currency with the gold to gems conversion.  You can buy gold with cash legally with the gems to gold conversion.  Literally everything gold spammers market to is possible within the terms of use and for those who don't wanna shell out cash don't have to.

 

If you think this game is predatory you've not heard of Diablo Immortal, have you?  None of the cash shop items are pay to win and all are earnable with in game currency.  I think a census of whales would show less gambling addicts than other games due to the absence of pay to win mechanics.

again, "it could be worse" isn't a compelling argument.

[robertthebard.8150]

5 minutes ago, DexterousGecko.6328 said:

again, "it could be worse" isn't a compelling argument.

Maybe not, but reading through the entire thread, I haven't seen a compelling argument for a sub.  Do you actually have one?  I'd like to see it.

I've played some sub games, swtor, which I won't play w/out one, and DDO, which doesn't strictly require one, but it sure makes my life easier if I do, since I can run every quest once for favor, instead of 2 or 3 times to get to open Elite for favor, immediately come to mind.  I played ESO as well, and the crafting bag is just too much of a convenience to do w/out, so I don't play there w/out one either.

If I skip a year in swtor, I'm way behind the gear grind, and may find that all of my previously maxed out crafters, all disciplines, must be maxed out again.  Here?  I can be gone for however long, and still be current.  I much prefer that, thank you very much.

[Danikat.8537]

2 hours ago, Vain.3805 said:

People saying the cash shop infects everything have never played a Korean MMO and it shows.

You can buy literally everything with in game currency with the gold to gems conversion.  You can buy gold with cash legally with the gems to gold conversion.  Literally everything gold spammers market to is possible within the terms of use and for those who don't wanna shell out cash don't have to.

 

If you think this game is predatory you've not heard of Diablo Immortal, have you?  None of the cash shop items are pay to win and all are earnable with in game currency.  I think a census of whales would show less gambling addicts than other games due to the absence of pay to win mechanics.

On the other hand Diablo Immortal is the one game I've heard of where someone paid to win and actually won. He's...not happy about it. https://www.gamespot.com/articles/diablo-immortal-player-paid-to-win-too-much-can-no-longer-find-pvp-matches/1100-6506060/

[Aodlop.1907]

5 hours ago, Reznov.5423 said:

you know you can earn gold and get gems with gold, right?

It's equally lame. Rewards aren't tied to anything.

In traditional MMOs, every set is tied to one specific activity, and sometimes the look of the item is linked to the overall theme of that activity.

Here it all feels pointless.

[azorean.1850]

Nothing... Nada.

[Intro.1249]

Posting in support of the OP and to boost the visibility of the thread.

I've said a million times (and I've only been playing for 4 months) that this game could use an optional subscription. 

The game as it is right now nickels and dimes you for everything and basically requires multiple optional purchases to be a worthwhile fun experience. 

If the game rolls out on Steam the way it is, players are bound to criticize the money hungry pricing of most things in the cash shop.

And no, "grind the gold and convert to gems" is not a valid answer. Some people want to just play the game and not grind gold.

Edited August 4, 2022 by Intro.1249

[Labjax.2465]

4 hours ago, Vain.3805 said:

People saying the cash shop infects everything have never played a Korean MMO and it shows.

You can buy literally everything with in game currency with the gold to gems conversion.  You can buy gold with cash legally with the gems to gold conversion.  Literally everything gold spammers market to is possible within the terms of use and for those who don't wanna shell out cash don't have to.

Um yeah, you just described how GW2's cash shop infects everything, by bringing up the gold/gems exchange.

It can def be argued there are worse uses of the cash shop model than what GW2 has. That doesn't make the connection between game and cash shop any less real.

[Tuna Bandit.3786]

Said it before and say it again: I play Guild Wars 2 for the sole reason it has no subscription.

Every now and then, these topics pop up, but I fail to understand why. There are a lot of Subscription MMO's out there, and there are non sub MMO's. Why do some preasure to press their agenda that each MMO needs to be subscription bases.

As for your title: What are we missing due to lack of subscription? personally I miss nothing.

In my situation, with all prices sky rocketing lately in RL, if gw2 would become a subscription based game, I would stop playing. 

I would HAVE to stop playing.

People like you seem not to realize that some of us play this game because WoW, FF14, etc etc

ARE SIMPLY TOO EXPENSIVE FOR US!

So I revent the question: Why do you want people like me, to leave the game? 

[kharmin.7683]

44 minutes ago, Intro.1249 said:

Posting in support of the OP and to boost the visibility of the thread.

I've said a million times (and I've only been playing for 4 months) that this game could use an optional subscription. 

 

Sure.  You can do this right now.  Pay Anet a set amount every month and receive gems that you can then use to purchase things.   Purely optional, too!

Please stop trying to force a model on a game that doesn't need it, especially when you can simply do this on your own.

[Labjax.2465]

2 minutes ago, Tuna Bandit.3786 said:

Said it before and say it again: I play Guild Wars 2 for the sole reason it has no subscription.

Every now and then, these topics pop up, but I fail to understand why. There are a lot of Subscription MMO's out there, and there are non sub MMO's. Why do some preasure to press their agenda that each MMO needs to be subscription bases.

As for your title: What are we missing due to lack of subscription? personally I miss nothing.

In my situation, with all prices sky rocketing lately in RL, if gw2 would become a subscription based game, I would stop playing. 

I would HAVE to stop playing.

People like you seem not to realize that some of us play this game because WoW, FF14, etc etc

ARE SIMPLY TOO EXPENSIVE FOR US!

So I revent the question: Why do you want people like me, to leave the game? 

Incidentally, this was the main argument behind the F2P model when it was first being pushed in the industry. The argument went something like: due to economic downturn, people having less to spend, we are struggling to fund this stuff with a sub, so we fund the game with the money of those who can spend and the ones who can't spend fill out the population numbers.

This was very cleverly presented, though as it panned out in reality, it turned out some "whales" (big spenders) were just people vulnerable to predatory monetization, not actually rich people, and many a game that could have done truly optional extras for money with the bulk of the game free instead made an aggrandized free trial for free that pressured you to spend (SWTOR's "F2P" option is a good example of this awfulness). Also because of elitism in our culture, you started seeing this thing of people who talked down to anyone who was F2P and unsatisfied as being entitled, and just a lot more rhetoric in general about people being "entitled." Now the rhetoric in video games has devolved to such a point you could be a person who just dropped thousands on a game and you'd still get people telling you you're being entitled to complain about the product you got.

Idk what my point here is, other than to talk about some history of it. I think I had one, but I forgot lol.

[DarcShriek.5829]

We're losing sub fees.  That's a good thing.

[Ledi.9742]

as someone who has spare cash only occasionally, subscription is something that just boots me and my money out of the game entirely. i cannot afford to up keep the subscription, just buying subscription every few months is less than ideal, and putting my money into something i cannot be certain that i will be able to "consume" to full extend is a terrible idea, because playing every day the subscription is active is just gonna burn me out.