Log-in rewards

[Sobx.1758]

3 hours ago, Vyr.9387 said:

And then there are the prime targets for updating: the BLGoods Chests are a free scam, and the Exotic box is meh in the vast majority of cases. These two would be the prime candidates for something like wardrobe unlocks, a random selectable dye kit, or that BL chest with old weapon skins, available for one Claim Ticket.
Account-bound, to not ruin the economy.

These items are given to the players as birthday presents and you're requesting them to be given out weekly. From that perspective alone, it's safe to say it's not going to happen.

[Vyr.9387]

38 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

These items are given to the players as birthday presents and you're requesting them to be given out weekly. From that perspective alone, it's safe to say it's not going to happen.

Can imagine there was a horde of people similarly claiming backpacks will never be dyeable dancing with others who refused to believe open world metas had failure state dialogues fully written and voice-acted.

And even if I grant the argument, everything I've mentioned has different rarity, quality... demand. There is even a precedent for such a seemingly impossible change shown in the rewards for the Return achievs, which give people a decent amount of BL skins for free, demonstrating that, at least for items with lower value overall, ANet are far from allergic to giving them away as incentive.

But we're not discussing what is foretold to come to pass and what is forbidden by some holy book.
We're weaving ideas, gathering insights, and, hopefully, inspiring future development of the world we enjoy spending time in.

Nothing more. Certainly nothing less.

[Solvar.7953]

I do like that the GW2 system doesn't punish players for missing some days.  ESO does use a rotating scheme each month, but if for some reason you do not log in for a few days, it means you can not get the rewards for the end of the month.  I've had cases where I was on vacation and was not going to log in, at which point after coming back and seeing what I could get from ESO was not very good, because the good rewards were not possible for that month because I missed some days.

I'm not sure how you can have changing rewards in the GW2 system, since as the system works now, I could take 3 months to complete the current reward track.  I suppose something like WvW could be done where you select what reward track you want for login rewards, but that seems fairly complicated and people would almost still complain that for some number of days on any reward track, you get crap items.

Given that you get login rewards for doing nothing but logging in, it is hard to complain too much about what is given.  But after doing this for many years, I have more TP to a friend than I'll ever use, so being able to turn those into something else would be nice.

 

[lezbefriends.7516]

ANet used to give useful freebies. Now we have to grind for things that are “practically” free.

[Danikat.8537]

12 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

These items are given to the players as birthday presents and you're requesting them to be given out weekly. From that perspective alone, it's safe to say it's not going to happen.

And we already have players complaining about getting dyes (and wardrobe unlocks) as birthday gifts for later years because they've already got all the dyes, so part of their gift is just a useless item they have to delete. I can only imagine it would be even less popular if they were having to do that every week.
 

6 hours ago, lezbefriends.7516 said:

ANet used to give useful freebies. Now we have to grind for things that are “practically” free.

What did they used to give which isn't included now? As far as I remember the login rewards haven't changed since they were introduced.

[Vyr.9387]

15 minutes ago, Danikat.8537 said:

And we already have players complaining about getting dyes (and wardrobe unlocks) as birthday gifts for later years because they've already got all the dyes, so part of their gift is just a useless item they have to delete. I can only imagine it would be even less popular if they were having to do that every week.

Trying to please everybody works absurdly rarely; about as often as seeing a person genuinely complaining about having to delete a single item once a year, I reckon. Yes, the more characters you have, the more of a hassle it is, but that's a problem with the items being one-time unlocks - mini Jennah comes to mind.
Which might very well be a relic of the past. Don't know if the account-wide interface for minis has been as it is since the beginning, or it's gotten a similar treatment to dyes somewhere down the line. Would explain giving the same thing to each new toon, though.
Which only suggests an update to an old system, either by changing what players get, or making the items usable in other ways.
Say, throw four Jennahs to Zommoros and be awarded with a mini Knut, a quartet of whom would yield a mini Smodur...

But let's say we want the log-ins to be completely universal in value for everybody, including those three people who finished the MMO, without belittling them for fussing over not getting a new shiny when the game literally doesn't have any more to provide yet.
If we're only changing one/two days each week, since everything else can be (indirectly) turned into gold, there could be a tinier loyalty chest containing a selection of ascended crafting mats, legendary crafting mats, said random shiny, and more (indirect) gold.
People would have the option to pick whichever thing they currently need, or just some "raw" cash, if they're not after anything in particular.

[Sobx.1758]

17 hours ago, Vyr.9387 said:

Can imagine there was a horde of people similarly claiming backpacks will never be dyeable dancing with others who refused to believe open world metas had failure state dialogues fully written and voice-acted.

And even if I grant the argument, everything I've mentioned has different rarity, quality... demand. There is even a precedent for such a seemingly impossible change shown in the rewards for the Return achievs, which give people a decent amount of BL skins for free, demonstrating that, at least for items with lower value overall, ANet are far from allergic to giving them away as incentive.

But we're not discussing what is foretold to come to pass and what is forbidden by some holy book.
We're weaving ideas, gathering insights, and, hopefully, inspiring future development of the world we enjoy spending time in.

Nothing more. Certainly nothing less.

That's a lot of words to say "I understand what I requested is unreasonable, but I'm just throwing random ideas anyways" without being upfront about it. You're free to come up with any idea you want and I'm free to point out how out of reasonable scale it is.

4 hours ago, Vyr.9387 said:

If we're only changing one/two days each week, since everything else can be (indirectly) turned into gold, there could be a tinier loyalty chest containing a selection of ascended crafting mats, legendary crafting mats, said random shiny, and more (indirect) gold.
People would have the option to pick whichever thing they currently need, or just some "raw" cash, if they're not after anything in particular.

Or, perhaps, we should stop trying to make literal log-in rewards to have some insane universal value and instead focus on acquiring rewards through gameplay.

Edited August 8, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Sobx.1758]

8 minutes ago, Vyr.9387 said:

You, on the other hand, haven't changed a bit: still a contrarian with absolutely no substance to his words.
Back up what You're saying, or quit hoarding post counts and/or hivemind trophies with nonsense.
Not like You're able to accomplish even a frown of my brow, but topics with valuable discussions will get (arguably correctly) locked because You can't mount a solid argument and keep repeating "no, 'cuz I said so" in different colors. Wouldn't be the first time, would it.
I don't mind opposition. But You're being actively detrimental to any conversation we've both been in, even though Your points in other ones aren't all Goop and InfoWars. Might always be variance (wink, wink).

How does pointing out you want to put a birthday reward we get annually into a weekly log-in reward cicle make me "contrarian"? 

Back up what exactly? Which part of what I said do you need to be further explained or proven? Where did I say anything remotely close to "no because I said so" here? Are you sure you've read what I wrote in my previous posts or did you just want to slam some personal insults no matter what? 🤨 

This is no substance for you?

19 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

These items are given to the players as birthday presents and you're requesting them to be given out weekly. From that perspective alone, it's safe to say it's not going to happen.

What is unclear about this post or what needs to be further "proven" here?

Quote

By all means, if there were a poll to choose one or the other, I'm all in for the actively acquired stuff, the log-in rewards can get entirely removed, not just nerfed.

Cool, glad we agree on that.

Edited August 8, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Vyr.9387]

Is this what people call "biting a bullet"? 'cuz it certainly feels that way.

 

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

How does pointing out you want to put a birthday reward we get annually into a weekly log-in reward cicle make me "contrarian"? 

Like this:

20 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

These items are given to the players as birthday presents and you're requesting them to be given out weekly. From that perspective alone, it's safe to say it's not going to happen.

Your answer has absolutely nothing to do with the topic - which calls for a change in log-in rewards - overall. What it does is target ONE particular type I have suggested as an example of a possibility, even though I've literally said "something like X", denoting the focus placed on the idea, which I've explained as well, not on the provided examples.

As for

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

What is unclear about this post or what needs to be further "proven" here?

The way a discussion goes - of course, if the goal is to arrive at an understanding and/or find a solution, not just wave various body parts around - is that all sides explain their starting ground, and then challenge their own ideas and view points to improve them, or abandon them altogether, if they're proven wrong.
I joined the topic, providing my perspective, and suggesting several ideas how to remedy the issue based on it.
You countered with a claim that, because items I've brought up are already in a more prestigious box, they certainly won't be put into a lesser box.
Which I then refuted with an already in-game policy of achievements providing skins which have been to that point locked behind not one random chance (the Black Lion Chest), but two (getting a key from map comp), or even three (wanting a single weapon, but 15 other skins exist on top), and several other "safely thought of as impossible" instances ANet managed to miracle out (dyeable backs, difficult open world metas).
A person of genuine interest in said understanding/solution to the problem would either go "that's a good point, I'll rethink my position and come back", or "that's not a good point, because X, Y, and Z".
You, however?
You act like nothing has been said, neither good or bad, and Your word is law and to hear is to obey.
What is a reader supposed to take from that? You claim it's not malice; which other word does Hanlon's Razor carve onto Your door?

But even after I accept this input of Yours as a reasonable, good faith argument and refute it in the following response, You say:

2 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said:

That's a lot of words to say "I understand what I requested is unreasonable, but I'm just throwing random ideas anyways" without being upfront about it. You're free to come up with any idea you want and I'm free to point out how out of reasonable scale it is.

Unless You do have some information about the inner workings of ANet, You are in no position to judge whether anything is or isn't reasonable for the game. It might (not) be reasonable in Your head, but that judgement is vehemently irrelevant to the world outside of Your head.
That's why I called for You backing up Your ideas, because they very well may be of both note and value, granted You have a reason to bring them up, other than "because I said so", which is what You're mostly doing: arguing from a position of power You do not have.
And, again, if You do, provide the evidence that You know more than I, or are more than I, and I will acknowledge it and we can move on from there.
Otherwise You're simply pointing Your finger gun in my general direction, expecting me to beg for mercy, merely because it might've worked twelve minutes ago on a bunch of kindergarten residents. And, man, nice hand, but I ain't shot and dead.

I'm still of the mind that insults don't exist. A word is either true, in which case it's a description, or it's not true, which makes it fantasy.
Or perhaps I have simply no need of them, considering You are signing Your name next to Your every post.

[Sobx.1758]

1 hour ago, Vyr.9387 said:

Your answer has absolutely nothing to do with the topic - which calls for a change in log-in rewards - overall. What it does is target ONE particular type I have suggested as an example of a possibility, even though I've literally said "something like X", denoting the focus placed on the idea, which I've explained as well, not on the provided examples.

It has everything to do with your post, which I specifically quoted though (and yes, it does have everything to do with the topic, since it still talks about log-in rewards). It seems that instead of saying "ok, that one was a bad idea", you took it as some insult because someone pointed out you're talking about putting some of the annual rewards on a vastly shorter timer.

And yes, I commented specifically on what I disagreed with, while also specifying why I disagree with it. Not sure how that's problematic at all.

Quote

As for

The way a discussion goes - of course, if the goal is to arrive at an understanding and/or find a solution, not just wave various body parts around - is that all sides explain their starting ground, and then challenge their own ideas and view points to improve them, or abandon them altogether, if they're proven wrong.
I joined the topic, providing my perspective, and suggesting several ideas how to remedy the issue based on it.
You countered with a claim that, because items I've brought up are already in a more prestigious box, they certainly won't be put into a lesser box.
Which I then refuted with an already in-game policy of achievements providing skins which have been to that point locked behind not one random chance (the Black Lion Chest), but two (getting a key from map comp), or even three (wanting a single weapon, but 15 other skins exist on top), and several other "safely thought of as impossible" instances ANet managed to miracle out (dyeable backs, difficult open world metas).

Yes, they did put some old/bad/undesired skins in those achievements, which still are something that at the very least was acquired through gameplay, not by just clicking a log-in button. Not sure how that's somehow supposed to show that we should be getting weekly wardrobe unlocks just for logging in. The scale of the things you're mentioning here is... not even close to each other.

Quote

A person of genuine interest in said understanding/solution to the problem would either go "that's a good point, I'll rethink my position and come back", or "that's not a good point, because X, Y, and Z".
You, however?
You act like nothing has been said, neither good or bad, and Your word is law and to hear is to obey.
What is a reader supposed to take from that? You claim it's not malice; which other word does Hanlon's Razor carve onto Your door?

But even after I accept this input of Yours as a reasonable, good faith argument and refute it in the following response, You say:

"But we're not discussing what is foretold to come to pass and what is forbidden by some holy book.
We're weaving ideas, gathering insights, and, hopefully, inspiring future development of the world we enjoy spending time in."

That's just how I saw this. Connected with what I saw as a random and irrelevant attempt at a strawman about "undyeable backpacks" or "open world meta fail states" (still don't see the relevance), that's what your post sounded to me. If that's not what it was, oh well.

Quote

Unless You do have some information about the inner workings of ANet, You are in no position to judge whether anything is or isn't reasonable for the game. It might (not) be reasonable in Your head, but that judgement is vehemently irrelevant to the world outside of Your head.

Disagreed, we can easly see the scale of the rewards we're getting and draw appropriate conclusions. We can easly see people getting multiple accounts just to repeatedly log into them for a second and grab easy rewards for their main account. That alone shows the log-in rewards don't exactly need boosting. If you want to cover your ears and say "but we're not anet, we don't know for sure!" instead, you're free to do that, I won't. Clearly, the value of log-in rewards is already high enough for doing next to nothing -and definitely nothing related to actually playing the game.

As for the repair canisters, it was a garbage-tier reward and still is, not much changed about it just because it's a slightly different kind of garbage now.

Edited August 8, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Ashen.2907]

20 hours ago, Vyr.9387 said:

Can imagine there was a horde of people similarly claiming backpacks will never be dyeable dancing with others who refused to believe open world metas had failure state dialogues fully written and voice-acted.

I think that there is a pretty significant difference between asking for new features to be added and asking for existing feature to be given away weekly.

[Sunchaser.9854]

The only people who care about untradable wardrobe unlocks are probably fashionscape players or people with nearly full collections of armor and only the expensive ones left. But I just usually like to preview ones I might like from the bank first before investing into one. 

Edited August 8, 2022 by Sunchaser.9854

[Vyr.9387]

32 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

It has everything to do with your post, which I specifically quoted though (and yes, it does have everything to do with the topic, since it still talks about log-in rewards). It seems that instead of saying "ok, that one was a bad idea", you took it as some insult because someone pointed out you're talking about putting some of the annual rewards on a vastly shorter timer.

Perhaps Sunchaser is right, and I should be more succinct.

You said Wardrobe Unlocks and Dye Kits are not going to get into log-in rewards (because [disproven reason], ergo no reason). This statement has value to the topic ONLY AND ONLY IF it is granted as a statement of fact, removing TWO examples from the pool of, how many, thousand? Ten thousand?
Now the 7404 Posts make complete sense, but I Shia L-applaud the determination.
It still shouldn't be granted, because what's asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.

So, here, have a "No" to Your "No".

 

45 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

And yes, I commented specifically on what I disagreed with, while also specifying why I disagree with it.

41 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Yes, they did put some old/bad/undesired skins in those achievements, which still are something that at the very least was acquired through gameplay, not by just clicking a log-in button. Not sure how that's somehow supposed to show that we should be getting weekly wardrobe unlocks just for logging in. The scale of the things you're mentioning here is... not even close to each other.

You seem rather inseparably attached to the weekly Wardrobe Unlocks, unable to grasp the concept of principles and examples.
Imagine, then, that I haven't said "Wardrobe Unlocks", but, idunno, "Rare Dyes". Basically worthless at this point, but much more noteworthy to new players on their own merit, and able to be thrown at Zommoros for a chance at some cool Exotic one, or sold for a guaranteed couple of silver at the market.

And yet, I'd stand by the Wardrobe Unlocks, simply because the pool of available items is so absurdly humongous already, that getting anything useful could take literal years. They're already a common drop from BLCs, and have been there without an issue for an eternity, even outlasting Hair and Makeover Kits, which effortlessly shows what ANet deemed too lucrative for people to have reasonable access too.

Thus, yes, the scale is not even close. Each Wardrobe Unlock should get a free firebrand to come with it, so Thanos is happy.
 

 

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

And yes, I commented specifically on what I disagreed with, while also specifying why I disagree with it. Not sure how that's problematic at all.

That - Your first post in this thread - was not problematic one bit.
I have an issue with Your second post, for reasons stated above numerous times.
If You can't understand, ask. Otherwise I've got a good mind to simply respond to Your obviously ignorant ideas in kind, because explaining something six times in a row is a waste of time.


 

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

"But we're not discussing what is foretold to come to pass and what is forbidden by some holy book.
We're weaving ideas, gathering insights, and, hopefully, inspiring future development of the world we enjoy spending time in."

That's just how I saw this. Connected with what I saw as a random and irrelevant attempt at a strawman about "undyeable backpacks" or "open world meta fail states" (still don't see the relevance), that's what your post sounded to me. If that's not what it was, oh well.

So You don't understand, but You're sure it's a strawman. Furthermore, You don't understand, and instead of asking, You drive home a feel-good conclusion.
Wouldn't usually bother with this part, but it beautifully demonstrates how little thought and effort You're putting into Your posts.

 

 

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Disagreed, we can easly see the scale of the rewards we're getting and draw appropriate conclusions. We can easly see people getting multiple accounts just to repeatedly log into them for a second and grab easy rewards for their main account. That alone shows the log-in rewards don't exactly need boosting. If you want to cover your ears and say "but we're not anet, we don't know for sure!" instead, you're free to do that, I won't. Clearly, the value of log-in rewards is already high enough for doing next to nothing -and definitely nothing related to actually playing the game.

Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns & Path of Fire costs 30€. That's still the requirement for getting log-ins, correct?
30€ would be able to buy 2400 Gems (10 = 800 Gems + 20 = 1600 Gems).
For 2400 Gems, at the current (worst) conversion rate of 6 Gems = 1 gold (because it goes much lower the more Gems are exchanged at once), we'd get 400 gold. 
Let's take something easily farmable, then, for example Flax. A single Pile of Flax Seeds costs 2s 60c at the moment of writing.
400g / 2s 60c = ~154.
Meaning that if we got 1 Pile of Flax Seeds per day as log-in rewards, the game will pay for itself at the worst conversion rate known to Tyria in fewer than 6 months. Meaning that, after roughly 20 weeks, every single day on top would be pure profit. 
With one Pile of Flax Seeds a day.

The log-ins are so much beyond one flax pile that they're like comparing infinities. The main reason why people buy more full accounts isn't how much they're getting, but the fact logging into the game takes six seconds including loading times.

But, once again directing the conversation to the actual topic, this has nothing to do with the OP, because, primo, the very beginning of the thread started with Image noting how useless of a reward the "repair" canister is after the change, and, secundo, people chimed in with their ideas about what they'd like to see as a possible replacement.
There are 3 - THREE! - mentions of monetary value when it comes to log-ins in the entire thread, and even those are nowhere near complaints to anything: Ashen mused about their lowered value over time, Astralporing came in with a reminder that the prices of MCs back at the conception of the system were a mere fraction, and Danikat pointed out that, if anything, log-ins have never really been meant to be an actual source of income.
Furthermore, nobody other than You is bringing up this "log-in rewards vs. gameplay rewards" sub-sub-sub-genre.
And YOU accuse ME of strawmanning. 


You know, the more I read You, the closer I'm arriving to the conclusion that talking to You the way You're talking to other people should be the go-to approach, because I'm not paid or good-hearted enough to excavate that one pathway which would make You listen to somebody else than Yourself.
Once You learn to, however, I'll be glad to continue.

[Vyr.9387]

2 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

I think that there is a pretty significant difference between asking for new features to be added and asking for existing feature to be given away weekly.

So do I.
Why, the two are quite nothing alike, why would anybody mix them up?

[Mrs Lana.2506]

On 8/7/2022 at 10:16 PM, Danikat.8537 said:

I've sometimes wondered if it might be weighted based on account activity, because my second account consistently gets more black lion salvage kits than my main one. It's fairly normal for me to get 2-3 on my second account before getting 1 on my main. It's not enough of a sample size to really draw a conclusion but it's been happening for a long time, and it seems like tweaking the drop rate to give more of a better reward - but specifically one you can't use without going out and doing events to get drops - could be a good way to encourage less actively players to play more.

I'm finding a similar thing with my accounts. Though, they're not useless on alts, far from it. I move over any exotics that I plan on salvaging to an alt, salvage it there and move the materials back. It's a little tedious but having a guild bank makes it a lot better.

[Danikat.8537]

16 minutes ago, Miss Lana.5276 said:

I'm finding a similar thing with my accounts. Though, they're not useless on alts, far from it. I move over any exotics that I plan on salvaging to an alt, salvage it there and move the materials back. It's a little tedious but having a guild bank makes it a lot better.

I do the same thing. If they really start building up I'll use them for rares as well but it does get tedious passing them over, especially when I have a lot of stuff in my guild bank so I can only do a few at a time.

[Khisanth.2948]

On 8/7/2022 at 8:16 AM, Danikat.8537 said:

I've sometimes wondered if it might be weighted based on account activity, because my second account consistently gets more black lion salvage kits than my main one.

I get piles of those on both account

On 8/8/2022 at 5:59 PM, Sunchaser.9854 said:

The only people who care about untradable wardrobe unlocks are probably fashionscape players or people with nearly full collections of armor and only the expensive ones left. But I just usually like to preview ones I might like from the bank first before investing into one. 

How to call people greedy without calling them greedy? 😁

Edited August 12, 2022 by Khisanth.2948

[Istondhri.1302]

For the 2nd week running I've received another of these totally useless armor-reinforcing canisters. These are not a reward., but an insult. The least they could do is add a tab to the BL exchange specialist NPC where you could swap them for other less useless but low value items like teleport to friend. or bank express.

[ruikarikun.9402]

Yeah. I think it's time to change some log-in rewards.

[DeanBB.4268]

Agreed. Please remove from the game. Don't even have to do anything with the existing ones, just put something else in their place for the things that drop it.