Condition FB or Condition WB or power DH !!?!

[Alhussaini.3420]

Hi guys,

 

i need some help and builds if it possible…. I am new to the game and honestly i dont know witch elite sp to choose Condi FB or Condi WB and is the power DH on a good spot right now !?? … i play manly fractals and open world … so i am sooooo confused what to choose and witch build to use … thanks in advance 

 

 

P.S : i play PvP sone time 

Edited August 7, 2022 by Alhussaini.3420
Forgot to add the pvp part

[Guyver.1426]

I use Cele FB with leadership runes, the most versatile stat type, works with all weapons .  The only down side is that I have to keep Advance on slot. 

Edited August 7, 2022 by Guyver.1426

[cat.8975]

CFB is probably your best option out of those three at the moment. It also happens to share the exact same build as CWB (minus the weapons), so it's easy to learn both and swap between the two.

[ThunderX.6591]

Top dps CWB, well is in the snowcrow ranking list at least for now.

CFB if you want to try giving quickness, as normal condi dps, the damage is really lacking.

The rest is support healer quickness FB, if you know how to heal and don't mind doing it.

For the rest, if you are open to other classes, Virtuoso, Harbinger, Mecha, Soulbeast or Untamed (with the top dps build but is strange to play)

 

[otto.5684]

FB is your best bet. There are many situations where WB is better. It most definitely is better in open world. Though in group setting FB damage evens and it can easily provide some quickness and stability, if needed.

[Alhussaini.3420]

2 hours ago, ThunderX.6591 said:

Top dps CWB, well is in the snowcrow ranking list at least for now.

CFB if you want to try giving quickness, as normal condi dps, the damage is really lacking.

The rest is support healer quickness FB, if you know how to heal and don't mind doing it.

For the rest, if you are open to other classes, Virtuoso, Harbinger, Mecha, Soulbeast or Untamed (with the top dps build but is strange to play)

 

What do you mean by CFB …. Condi or cele

[ThunderX.6591]

Was Condi FB, normal, not the quickness variant.

[cat.8975]

5 hours ago, ThunderX.6591 said:

Top dps CWB, well is in the snowcrow ranking list at least for now.

CFB if you want to try giving quickness, as normal condi dps, the damage is really lacking.

The rest is support healer quickness FB, if you know how to heal and don't mind doing it.

For the rest, if you are open to other classes, Virtuoso, Harbinger, Mecha, Soulbeast or Untamed (with the top dps build but is strange to play)

 

This is wrong, cfb is currently ahead of cwb, AND it has some baked-in utility via the tomes. I'd only recommend cwb to people that enjoy the faster playstyle of it, as cfb tops it in every other way.

[cat.8975]

3 hours ago, otto.5684 said:

FB is your best bet. There are many situations where WB is better. It most definitely is better in open world. Though in group setting FB damage evens and it can easily provide some quickness and stability, if needed.

You've got this backwards, FB is much more self-sufficient than WB, and is overall a safer pick for open world. CWB without a reliable source of alacrity both feels and performs awfully.

[ThunderX.6591]

1 hour ago, cat.8975 said:

This is wrong, cfb is currently ahead of cwb, AND it has some baked-in utility via the tomes. I'd only recommend cwb to people that enjoy the faster playstyle of it, as cfb tops it in every other way.

CWB Is ranked higher of CFB............ don't be deceived by the higher CFB with Allies benchmark VS the normal CWB benchmark.......... the normal CFB benchmark (31k) is a lot lower than the one with allies (the page is the same for the benchmark, BUT dps done with the ADD "Allies" to the tag is a lot higher than dps done without). Spectre is a classic example of it, condi spectre with allies 39k, without is 31k, and the build/rotation page link is the same too.

It is to understand "Allies" what provide to the class for the extra dps they get.

[cat.8975]

2 minutes ago, ThunderX.6591 said:

CWB Is ranked higher of CFB............ don't be deceived by the higher CFB with Allies benchmark VS the normal CWB benchmark.......... the normal CFB benchmark (31k) is a lot lower than the one with allies (the page is the same for the benchmark, BUT dps done with the ADD "Allies" to the tag is a lot higher than dps done without). Spectre is a classic example of it, condi spectre with allies 39k, without is 31k, and the build/rotation page link is the same too.

It is to understand "Allies" what provide to the class for the extra dps they get.

Even assuming solo play, Firebrand will be a better pick just because of all of the quickness it can give itself. Go try fighting the golem without any boons from the console and you'll see what I mean.

[ThunderX.6591]

I know about that, tested it too, to see the difference (even for self boons build and the interaction of it with the golem), but a Condi quickness FB is around 26k dps without Allies (but i see all the time people point out the 29k dps with Allies....... why, i don't know).

I simple arranged the build as top DPS, but if you want an all around build, yeah, FB is the best choice for a guardian, but in this case, don't think too much about it if they ask you if you are healer or quickness as FB class, normal dps isn't in most party radar as FB.

[otto.5684]

23 hours ago, cat.8975 said:

You've got this backwards, FB is much more self-sufficient than WB, and is overall a safer pick for open world. CWB without a reliable source of alacrity both feels and performs awfully.

Absolutely not. Unless you are building healing on FB,  condi WB is far more survivable in OW. Faster, has evades and better blocks. Both WB courage and Virtues are extremely powerful for healing, evading and blocking. FB tomes are slower, lock your weapon skills and have much longer CDs. The only thing FB has is better access to utilities for allies, if needed, and CC.

Edited August 8, 2022 by otto.5684

[Gaiawolf.8261]

On 8/6/2022 at 11:06 PM, Guyver.1426 said:

I use Cele FB with leadership runes, the most versatile stat type, works with all weapons .  The only down side is that I have to keep Advance on slot. 

Runes of the Pack frees up the slot for Advance. Depending on what you slot, you can mitigate the 10% boon uptime loss, and can use that slot to better optimize for situations and mechanics. Leadership runes with Advance are still very good in most cases.

IMO Pack runes are underrated for guards, especially cele FBs.

EDIT: I also eked out some noticeable DPS from pack runes runes over both leadership and Balthazar without losing noticeable support (maybe 3%?).

Edited August 19, 2022 by Gaiawolf.8261

[Carnifex.3275]

At the moment i wouldn't recommend any of those options. HFB/qFB is fine. But cFB/cWB and pWB/pDH are quite in a bad spot. Sure, for open world it's alright, anythin works there. So i guess u can go with cWB for open world if you really want guard as a dps spec. But the reality is.. dps specs were quite nerfed. I only play hfb and qfb now, especially in t4/cms, cuz of utility it brings. But if i go dps, i just switch to a different class. Also don't be deceived by SC benchmarks. ~35-36k on CWB is really almost impossible even on golem and even more unrealistic in real fights since its 100% melee class. Meanwhile classes like cVirtu/pMech are quite easy to reach almost benchmark numbers and being safe at range when needed. With peeps that i play they usually switch to cVirtu/cSpecter/pMech, no1 really plays cfb/cwb in endgame anymore. And certainly not DH too.

[Luna.6203]

@Carnifex.3275 Exactly this!!! I play hFB or qFB as main but if group already have those so they want pure dps i just switch over to condi virtuoso.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I've been having fun with power willbender.  I use it mostly for the run speed boost so I don't have to constantly mount up.  However, it still has decent cleave, a few "immune to damage" buttons, decent burst damage, and the guardians toolbox.  I run power because I mostly do overworld stuff atm, and in the overworld using power makes killing things much quicker and easier.  But if you were to go to fractals... power willbender will still work.

[Carnifex.3275]

On 8/22/2022 at 11:46 PM, Luna.6203 said:

@Carnifex.3275 Exactly this!!! I play hFB or qFB as main but if group already have those so they want pure dps i just switch over to condi virtuoso.

Yup yup.. i usually switch to cspecter or pmech, depending on the boss. Sad days for cwb, i really liked playing it. I still play it in OW tho since guard is kind of my main class. But in raids.. i barely play it anymore.

Sad part is that we probably won't get any buffs in a near future. Community really perceives guardian (more like FB) a very strong spec so anet will be very hesitant to change anything. Other specs like WB really suffers because of what Firebrand is. They need to focus on nerfing spec traits, not core traits (like amplified wrath). Im sure you can keep Firebrand in check and at the same time buff WB/DH. 

Edited August 24, 2022 by Carnifex.3275

[Luna.6203]

But now after patch i wonder if "greatsword grieving condi willy" could benefit enough from boost. Technically it should be better but how much... ? 🤔

[Massimoni.9453]

8 hours ago, Carnifex.3275 said:

Other specs like WB really suffers because of what Firebrand is. They need to focus on nerfing spec traits, not core traits (like amplified wrath). Im sure you can keep Firebrand in check and at the same time buff WB/DH.

Yeah, their approach of buffing and nerfing is far too unspecific, like how they nerfed cMech despite it being kinda fine but buffing pMech (the actual problem) because they had to buff a core trait for pscrapper and pholo.... If we split firebrand up into its variants itself it should also be clear that cFB isn't much better off than cWB, we will always have to suffer under this umbrella called "support".

[Carnifex.3275]

@Massimoni.9453 Yup, its really weird. cMech was totally fine imo cuz it atleast required some skills to press and it was melee. So it was totally fine to pull good deeps. It's puzzling why they nerfed it. And also why not buff scrapper and holo alone. Why u have to go into core traits and buff them. That makes pmech even more OP.

@Luna.6203 It won't be much better tbh. We've tested power DH with gs/hammer, it wasn't anything special, still very mediocre. And cWilly won't really benefit much too cuz they mostly buffed GS autoattacks. And they aren't quick enough to ramp up the dmg. GS#5 is not that bad but still.. i think it won't be enough to bring cWilly back to life.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Carnifex.3275