Alt friendliness

[Trip.8250]

Problem:    If I complete EOD chapter 4 on my mesmer and  want to play chapter 5 on a different class, I have to: create that character, level or boost them to 80, complete chapters 1-4 again, unlock all the skill points for my specialization, and only then can I start chapter 5.

Solution:    Having played ff14 recently, being able to play all classes on a single character was game changing. I would like to see this feature in gw2. This is likely not possible, so here is a way to create a similar experience:

1. Make story progress account-wide. Example: If I finish chapter 4 of end of dragons, I can start chapter 5 on any character on my account.
2.  Danikat had a great idea showing how something like this already exists in game. It would be nice to expand this to main story:

   3 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

   Why not just ask Anet to make it possible to play any expansion story chapter on any character without playing the preceeding ones, like you can for living world episodes? It might be necessary to require you to play through it in order the first time and then select chapters to play after you've completed them the first time, so players can't just skip ahead to the end. But that would solve the problem the OP is having without causing a whole load of additional problems.

3. Spoiler

   Make skill points account-wide  Example: If my mesmer has unlocked 400 skill points, then all characters on my account have unlocked 400 skill points.

    

How does this work in practice?    I can now fairly seamlessly  play chapter 1 on a mesmer, chapter 2 on a warrior. Added benefit: if all these characters look the same, it feels like 1 character.

 

Edited August 7, 2022 by Trip.8250

[kharmin.7683]

No.

[Sobx.1758]

I don't like this idea.

[PhantomKitty.6520]

Kinda takes the fun out of each character's individuality...at least, from an RPer's standpoint...

Plus, we'd lose a ton of achievement points alone that were based on each individual character that we made (Necro points, Rev points, Ranger points, etc.)...

I'm sure there's probably more to the argument, but I haven't had enough coffee yet...

[captrowdy.9561]

Probably would take a lot of dev time that they don’t have. 

[Poormany.4507]

What would be the point of leveling or playing through the story with alts with this idea? The game would pretty much be a one-and-done game at that point. What if someone (such as myself) likes playing their alts as different characters, not as an all-in-one character like you do? Not a fan of this idea.

Edited August 7, 2022 by Poormany.4507

[Trip.8250]

4 minutes ago, PhantomKitty.6520 said:

Kinda takes the fun out of each character's individuality...at least, from an RPer's standpoint...

Plus, we'd lose a ton of achievement points alone that were based on each individual character that we made (Necro points, Rev points, Ranger points, etc.)...

I'm sure there's probably more to the argument, but I haven't had enough coffee yet...

I can see how the base game content is  individual per character (starting bio, race, vigil/priory/secrets), but after not really. Unless by individually you mean this character has completed heart of thorns and this other character has completed path of fire. I don't see that as individuality.

[Trip.8250]

13 minutes ago, Poormany.4507 said:

What would be the point of leveling or playing through the story with alts with this idea? The game would pretty much be a one-and-done game at that point. Not a fan of this idea.

the game is already one and done. you can only do anything for the first time once. If you want to play through the entire game again there's nothing stopping you from doing that. I don't want to do that.

The "replay this chapter" button already exists.

Edited August 7, 2022 by Trip.8250

[lionlady.1560]

Trip you bring up heart of thorns in that particular expansion if you played a certain race you had different dialogue than other races that play through it 

[PhantomKitty.6520]

5 minutes ago, Trip.8250 said:

I can see how the base game content is  individual per character (starting bio, race, vigil/priory/secrets), but after not really. Unless by individually you mean this character has completed heart of thorns and this other character has completed path of fire. I don't see that as individuality.

If things like story decisions and all account bound across all characters, that means that the achievement points are too.  That means that the plethora of other achievement points for making other decisions for the account cannot be made for other characters because you've already made them with the one character and they are all ACCOUNT BOUND.  Impacting individuaity of the other characters you may later decide to play later.  You can no longer make other decisions for your other characters, because it is now hard stuck because of previous decisions.

Of course, with this game, yes, you can go back and replay certain content to get the other achievements, but you can't for the main story.  The main story achievements would be account bound to all your characters with your method.  Meaning, if you chose the Vigil, all your characters would be Vigil aligned, with your method.  You couldn't explore the other paths with other characters at all.  

And also, to make story content account wide as well, you'd have to choose the same race as well, every time.  Don't you see that?  You'd be stuck with the same race...at minimum.  How the character looked, of course, wouldn't matter, of course.  But parts of the bio would still need to be the same, every time.

Like the other's have said, it's doing the same thing, over and over.  The only thing you're really affecting are class, and looks of the class in order to make the character different.

[Poormany.4507]

14 minutes ago, Trip.8250 said:

the game is already one and done. you can only do anything for the first time once. If you want to play through the entire game again there's nothing stopping you from doing that. I don't want to do that.

The "replay this chapter" button already exists.

There's tons of unique dialogue/visuals if you play through content with a different class or race. You can't do most of the Personal Story on a single playthrough because it depends on which race/initial character bio/Order you choose.

[Sobx.1758]

21 minutes ago, Trip.8250 said:

the game is already one and done. you can only do anything for the first time once.

Well, you want to play through the story with another class so I guess that counts as new experience?

Edited August 7, 2022 by Sobx.1758

[Danikat.8537]

39 minutes ago, PhantomKitty.6520 said:

Kinda takes the fun out of each character's individuality...at least, from an RPer's standpoint...

Plus, we'd lose a ton of achievement points alone that were based on each individual character that we made (Necro points, Rev points, Ranger points, etc.)...

I'm sure there's probably more to the argument, but I haven't had enough coffee yet...

 

38 minutes ago, Poormany.4507 said:

What would be the point of leveling or playing through the story with alts with this idea? The game would pretty much be a one-and-done game at that point. What if someone (such as myself) likes playing their alts as different characters, not as an all-in-one character like you do? Not a fan of this idea.

This is my thinking too. This sounds less like a way to make the game alt friendly and more a way to make alts irrelevant and somewhat useless, which to my mind is the opposite.

Also in addition to all the problems already raised there's some items which are only available as rewards for story completion so if you want all of them you have to repeat the story on a new character and make different choices. Making hero points account-wide would also remove a large part of what's required for map completion (especially in level 80 maps which either don't have hearts or have very few hearts) which has implications for legendary weapon crafting.

Why not just ask Anet to make it possible to play any expansion story chapter on any character without playing the preceeding ones, like you can for living world episodes? It might be necessary to require you to play through it in order the first time and then select chapters to play after you've completed them the first time, so players can't just skip ahead to the end. But that would solve the problem the OP is having without causing a whole load of additional problems.

[Trip.8250]

1 hour ago, lionlady.1560 said:

Trip you bring up heart of thorns in that particular expansion if you played a certain race you had different dialogue than other races that play through it 

 

1 hour ago, PhantomKitty.6520 said:

If things like story decisions and all account bound across all characters, that means that the achievement points are too.  That means that the plethora of other achievement points for making other decisions for the account cannot be made for other characters because you've already made them with the one character and they are all ACCOUNT BOUND.  Impacting individuaity of the other characters you may later decide to play later.  You can no longer make other decisions for your other characters, because it is now hard stuck because of previous decisions.

Of course, with this game, yes, you can go back and replay certain content to get the other achievements, but you can't for the main story.  The main story achievements would be account bound to all your characters with your method.  Meaning, if you chose the Vigil, all your characters would be Vigil aligned, with your method.  You couldn't explore the other paths with other characters at all.  

And also, to make story content account wide as well, you'd have to choose the same race as well, every time.  Don't you see that?  You'd be stuck with the same race...at minimum.  How the character looked, of course, wouldn't matter, of course.  But parts of the bio would still need to be the same, every time.

Like the other's have said, it's doing the same thing, over and over.  The only thing you're really affecting are class, and looks of the class in order to make the character different.

 

1 hour ago, Poormany.4507 said:

There's tons of unique dialogue/visuals if you play through content with a different class or race. You can't do most of the Personal Story on a single playthrough because it depends on which race/initial character bio/Order you choose.

 

if you want to experience the unique elements of the game, then you are free to do that. My suggestion does not impact your ability to make that choice.  Want to play a norn and experience norn content? play a norn. Want to join the priory? Join the Priory. Don't like the first three chapters of path of fire, but love chapter 4? Play chapter 4. Want to make different decision is chapter 6? Make a different decision.

if the game doesn't allow you to making different story choice while replaying a chapter, the game should be modified to allow that.

Edited August 7, 2022 by Trip.8250

[Trip.8250]

3 hours ago, Danikat.8537 said:

Why not just ask Anet to make it possible to play any expansion story chapter on any character without playing the preceeding ones, like you can for living world episodes? It might be necessary to require you to play through it in order the first time and then select chapters to play after you've completed them the first time, so players can't just skip ahead to the end. But that would solve the problem the OP is having without causing a whole load of additional problems.

 

I would accept this.

This is essentially what I'm asking for. If I could complete a chapter on one character and then switch to another character to play the next chapter.

Edited August 7, 2022 by Trip.8250

[Trip.8250]

51 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Well, you want to play through the story with another class so I guess that counts as new experience?

If I haven't played that part of the story before then its a new experience. If I have played that part of the story before then its not a new experience. Playing part of the story I've played before on a new class is only partly new.

 

Edited August 7, 2022 by Trip.8250

[Sobx.1758]

2 minutes ago, Trip.8250 said:

If I haven't played that part of the story before then its a new experience. If I have played that part of the story before then its not a new experience.

Then don't change the class and keep having your new experience in the story you didn't play yet.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

2 hours ago, Trip.8250 said:

Problem:    If I complete EOD chapter 4 on my mesmer and  want to play chapter 5 on a different class, I have to: create that character, level or boost them to 80, complete chapters 1-4 again, unlock all the skill points for my specialization, and only then can I start chapter 5.

Solution:    Having played ff14 recently, being able to play all classes on a single character was game changing. I would like to see this feature in gw2.

This is likely not possible, so here is a way to create a similar experience:

1. Make story progress account-wide. Example: If I finish chapter 4 of end of dragons, I can start chapter 5 on any character on my account.
2. Make skill points account-wide  Example: If my mesmer has unlocked 400 skill points, then all characters on my account have unlocked 400 skill points.

How does this work in practice?    I can now nearly seamlessly  play chapter 1 on a mesmer, chapter 2 on a warrior, and create a thief, boost them to 80, and play chapter 3 on the thief. Added benefit, if all these characters look the same, it feels like 1 character.

This isn't Final Fantasy XIV, this is Guild Wars 2.

Edited August 7, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[SuavePuppy.2809]

Kinda seems like you're rolling two issues you have into one overly complex solution. You've got an issue with the fact that you can't select story missions in any order if you haven't completed them on that character. So the solution would be to allow just that - let people select chapters in any order if they so choose.

Then you have a separate issue of not being able to class switch, but trying to use that proposal to fix the first problem. You're asking for remarkably huge system changes, which straight up aren't going to happen.

[vesica tempestas.1563]

No here as well, homogenised classes is ultimately less interesting over time.

[Lottie.5370]

I think the story is fine as it is, I don't like this idea.

[Keymaster.7362]

FF14 is a really horrible example for good alt friendliness. Yes, one character can play every class, this is nice, but every alt is forced to play all the 200 hours of story chronologically to unlock all maps, dungeons and raids on their own.

The personal story and the addons are the only storys in GW2 that force you to play them chronologically in theirself.

Apart from this every character can start or skip the personal story, the addons and every single chapter of every single living story in the order you want.

Edited August 7, 2022 by Keymaster.7362

[Trip.8250]

37 minutes ago, Keymaster.7362 said:

FF14 is a really horrible example for good alt friendliness. Yes, one character can play every class, this is nice, but every alt is forced to play all the 200 hours of story chronologically to unlock all maps, dungeons and raids on their own.

The personal story and the addons are the only storys in GW2 that force you to play them chronologically in theirself.

Apart from this every character can start or skip the personal story, the addons and every single chapter of every single living story in the order you want.

Right, but my point being FF14 removes the main reason people create alts. To play other classes. Since you can play all classes on one character, alts are rendered largely unnecessary.

[yoni.7015]

15 minutes ago, Trip.8250 said:

Right, but my point being FF14 removes the main reason people create alts. To play other classes. Since you can play all classes on one character, alts are rendered largely unnecessary.

But I want to create alts and I want to have more than one character. 

[Trip.8250]

12 minutes ago, yoni.7015 said:

But I want to create alts and I want to have more than one character. 

Then do it. I'm not advocating for people to have less choice, I'm advocating for them to have more choice in how they play the game.

Edited August 7, 2022 by Trip.8250