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Heal Scourge: A DPS healer without the right setup


Lily.1935

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Scourge has fallen out of favor as a healer. Although their spot in PvE as a condi DPS is quite solid as a healer however its become difficult to justify adding them too a group with Mechanist doing much of what they do but better. Although that's not entirely true, Scrouge is far superior when it comes to revival the other utility and boons Mechanist brings along with its superior raw healing for living allies scourge healer just isn't all that impressive.

Or is it? Looking at the ideas scourge presents with high AoE pressure and the ability to cover a number of allies with barrier scourge could fill a very unique role which we haven't seen in some time. Not since the grace of the land nerf. A DPS healer. Not a boon healer like Mechanist or firebrand, but scourge has the potential to be a 30k+ DPS healer which would give it a unique niche that could diversify party composition.

A healer taking a DPS slot could be quite interesting in My opinion. It would replace the Mechanist or Firebrands since it doesn't and probably shouldn't give alacrity or quickness, but if its taking on a Healer DPS new comps could be formed with a DPS quickness, DPS Alacrity and the DPS healer giving other specs room to shine.

That being said Scourge still needs a bit of help to get there. At the moment there is no stat combination in the game which favors this set up. Plaguedoctor I believe was supposed to but it gives Concentration instead of Expertise which makes this setup impossible to achieve. Even with that scourge has other complications it faces. Blood magic, necromancer's only selfless specialization outside of elite specs is a rather heavy DPS loss in combination with not having the right gear. You could just run vipers but your healing power isn't going to be enough to help carry through your team which is what we want to do.
 

In my opinion there should be more possible build types in the game. Pure healers can't cut it in a lot of content in PvE end game so having the options of Quick healer, Alacrity healer and DPS healer would be quite nice in my opinion. And expanding those options outward like this would result in more potential space for an elite spec to fill than just "Does it give quickness or alacrity?" when asking about support.

 

Scourge has another issue though. Even without those essential boons they do need some help in other areas. If we were to push this idea, Concentration from sand Sage should be removed in favor of healing power. Although not necessary it would be more helpful to scourge's current design. The Punishment skills should also be looked at as well since even with my idea of a DPS healer I think a pure healer or extra utility would be nice for its overall design.

The biggest thing holding it back is the lack of the right stat combination. Even with no other changes the right set of armor would bring this build to prominence. For the time being the correct stat combination in my opinion I'll call it Witch gear. Which would be Primary: Condition Damage+Healing power Secondary: Expertise+Vitality. Giving it precision would be way too much as it would be so minor of a DPS loss for normal scourge that the DPS build would just use it and the raw DPS build would fad away in favor of using this setup.

But who knows what will happen in the future. I'd like to see a DPS healer but arena net might have other plans. This is just my speculation on the subject since I've been experimenting with the build for a while and no current stat combination gives it the punch it needs to compete with the current healers.

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There are several problems with dps healers or scourge.

 

But before I touch those problems: my raid static and I developed a healer/quickness dps Herold. It's dps isn't great, 17k on golem. And the base version can only heal via regeneration and the staff skills. In order to keep the quickness, you gotta play dragon, but you can freely swap around the other legend for minimal dps loss.

- assassin: most dps

- dwarf: raid stability

- ventari: projectile block, another big cc, additional condi cleanse, alot more healing.

 Base Version plays with assassin and has a ~290 healing tick from regeneration.

Why did we create that build? - we wanted to have a cele firebrand substitute.

 

Why do I tell you this? Because I wanted to show, that it's possible to create such builds, but they come at a cost.

 

Now back to scourge: it's biggest advantage is having 10man barrier. But there are several downsides:

Without blood magic you won't have good direct heals and just those barriers aren't enough to be a full healer.

Even in the blood magic traitline you ave to make decisions:

ritual of life vs blood bond: while ritual of life together with the healing well and transfusion provides an insane multitarget rezz while blood bond is a very small DPS increase. Probably you will always take ritual except there is a really low pressure fight

 

Life from death vs banshee's veil vs vampiric presence: imo you should only take life from death, if you play soulreaping (lower CD) so that leaves us with banshee's veil and vampiric presence.

Vampiric presence is a nice dps increase for the group (around 1-2k dps) while banshee's veil improves warhorn heal and gives 10% outgoing healing. Big problem: the healing mod doesn't affect barriers, which is scourges main source of "healing". there's only 4 other sources of direct healing on scourge: healing well which heals around 600 per tick with full plaguedoc equip, transfusion, warhorn 4 and regeneration (no permanent uptime and you have to use dodges for it).

So I'm not quite sure if it's worth, running banshee's veil. 

 

Next up: soulreaping vs curses

Soulreapings main point that makes it worth taking: reduced CD of shade abilities + some burning from dhuumfire.

Curses: best condi dmg traitline Necro has.

 

And last in scourge traitline: desert empowerment or herald of sorrow. More small barrier applications vs one big one.

 

You have to choose very often on Necro, if you want to do more dmg, or if you want to heal more.

 

And the last problem: stats for full heal + dps don't exist. With plaguedoctor you only have around half of the healing power of a full heal build. Therefore your barriers and heals are a lot weaker than on a full heal scourge. 

 

If a stat combi like +Cnd dmg + healing power+ expertise (+x either vita or precision) existed, scourge would definetly benefit quite a lot. Even though you would still need to take another build in the other subgroup in ten player content, as scourges direct heals are not so good for off group healing.

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45 minutes ago, Nimon.7840 said:

There are several problems with dps healers or scourge.

 

But before I touch those problems: my raid static and I developed a healer/quickness dps Herold. It's dps isn't great, 17k on golem. And the base version can only heal via regeneration and the staff skills. In order to keep the quickness, you gotta play dragon, but you can freely swap around the other legend for minimal dps loss.

- assassin: most dps

- dwarf: raid stability

- ventari: projectile block, another big cc, additional condi cleanse, alot more healing.

 Base Version plays with assassin and has a ~290 healing tick from regeneration.

Why did we create that build? - we wanted to have a cele firebrand substitute.

 

Why do I tell you this? Because I wanted to show, that it's possible to create such builds, but they come at a cost.

 

Now back to scourge: it's biggest advantage is having 10man barrier. But there are several downsides:

Without blood magic you won't have good direct heals and just those barriers aren't enough to be a full healer.

Even in the blood magic traitline you ave to make decisions:

ritual of life vs blood bond: while ritual of life together with the healing well and transfusion provides an insane multitarget rezz while blood bond is a very small DPS increase. Probably you will always take ritual except there is a really low pressure fight

 

Life from death vs banshee's veil vs vampiric presence: imo you should only take life from death, if you play soulreaping (lower CD) so that leaves us with banshee's veil and vampiric presence.

Vampiric presence is a nice dps increase for the group (around 1-2k dps) while banshee's veil improves warhorn heal and gives 10% outgoing healing. Big problem: the healing mod doesn't affect barriers, which is scourges main source of "healing". there's only 4 other sources of direct healing on scourge: healing well which heals around 600 per tick with full plaguedoc equip, transfusion, warhorn 4 and regeneration (no permanent uptime and you have to use dodges for it).

So I'm not quite sure if it's worth, running banshee's veil. 

 

Next up: soulreaping vs curses

Soulreapings main point that makes it worth taking: reduced CD of shade abilities + some burning from dhuumfire.

Curses: best condi dmg traitline Necro has.

 

And last in scourge traitline: desert empowerment or herald of sorrow. More small barrier applications vs one big one.

 

You have to choose very often on Necro, if you want to do more dmg, or if you want to heal more.

 

And the last problem: stats for full heal + dps don't exist. With plaguedoctor you only have around half of the healing power of a full heal build. Therefore your barriers and heals are a lot weaker than on a full heal scourge. 

 

If a stat combi like +Cnd dmg + healing power+ expertise (+x either vita or precision) existed, scourge would definetly benefit quite a lot. Even though you would still need to take another build in the other subgroup in ten player content, as scourges direct heals are not so good for off group healing.

The issue is primarily the gear. These other issues can be solved pretty reasonably with the right gear. I've been working on a build with a mix of Vipers, Seraphs and bringer's to get it to work. The issue comes in the Bringer's which is a massive DPS hit and at the moment I predict it could get up to about a 23k DPS bench perhaps 25k, but this is far behind the point I want it to be be. And that's with curses and blood magic. The biggest issue is the loss of 600 condition damage compared to the DPS spec on top of losing soul reaping.

Also, the traits I take for the build at the moment are the exact same traits I take in Scourge as the DPS build. Why not top top top? or Top top middle? Well, unless your in a condi heavy fight you really don't need it, the condition duration and reduction of torch traits proved to be better.

Its a puzzle I'm trying to solve and I see most of the pieces there. The build is there, it just doesn't quite have the kick it needs to create an alternative group comp.

I'm not looking for an alternative to an existing build. I'm not interested in competing in the same space as firebrand or mechanist. I'm interested in allowing other specs to shine which can't be run as heavy boon support healers, or can't be run that way very well such as Willbender, Harbinger, Warrior, Ranger(soulbeast and Untamed).

BUT Scourge has some clear advantages over Firebrand and Mechanist. The revive potential of Blood is absolutely insane and a build like this would be very novice group friendly while keeping the overall DPS of the group high.

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http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSAFs81aYZGMQmGriRiF7U/zE-zRZYNBlbGSJD04qVItEC5WBdkACfQChUAoRG/WAA-e
 

The build in process. Its not quite where I want. It both needs more condition damage and healing power. Currently it is a 23k DPS build but possibly could be pushed up to 25k with someone who is better at this than I am. Demonic lore is fine to take because the player coverage is 12 in total. With one DPS heal scourge in each party this is functional to stack decent barrier.

The right gear could push this up to 30k I'm confident in that. 8 seconds on Shade recharge vs 10 second is better for you. You'll cover all 10 party members regardless.

Where some changes should be made for future updates to scourge. First of all, Sand Savant needs some buffs in PvE. Probably a pulsing barrier on Desert shroud, or replacing desert shroud with a new type of shroud. Because at the moment if you're not taking demonic lore you're probably hurting your barrier output. Punishment skills, which are more supportive in nature, should be buffed or some of their functions changed and abrasive grit should be the trait that reduces punishment skill cooldown. Sadistic searing should just add burning on shade summoning, making it the clear choice over desert empowerment for the DPS builds. Herald of sorrow honestly needs to completely be reworked. I'd Say it makes it so all boon corruption on the necromancer to be converted into Crippling and 2 stacks of torment.

I think the build CAN work now but its not there yet. The only Punishment skill you might want is trail of anguish. I've experimented with Sand flair in a heavier barrier focused build but you need a lot more healing power to make that work and if you're going to go that far into healing power you should just go full healer.

The Loss of Soul reaping in the build isn't the end of the world. Its not great, but you do provide allies extra Damage with Vampiric presence. The build has the potential to keep a party alive. With 2 DPS heal scourges it might be decent enough for a party. I actually really like the build though. Its weak at the moment but it has a strong potential! Here's hoping Arena net tunes up some of the lacking elements on scourge.

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Only good part on scourge is ambulance service on 4th skill (4 in shroud or F4 with scourge). Everything else was taken over by mechanist (and much much better than scourge). So unless you want ambulance in fights where positioning is important (read it as: you need to pull out your incompetent squad members out of lava), just run anything else (mechanist)

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10 hours ago, Lily.1935 said:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSAFs81aYZGMQmGriRiF7U/zE-zRJYvRPfh0VFkbCUdI49qeaA-e

 

Full plaguedoctor was around the same dps, but with higher heal power. Yes you're basically wasting all the concentration but a little bit more might uptime will never be bad

Also herald of sorrow trait is little bit less dps, but can be much more useful than desert empowerment in some situations. For example VG greens, gorse cc phase. Basically every situation you expect to receive a lot of dmg in very small amount of time

 😉

Edited by Nimon.7840
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1 hour ago, Nimon.7840 said:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSAFs81aYZGMQmGriRiF7U/zE-zRJYvRPfh0VFkbCUdI49qeaA-e

 

Full plaguedoctor was around the same dps, but with higher heal power. Yes you're basically wasting all the concentration but a little bit more might uptime will never be bad

Also herald of sorrow trait is little bit less dps, but can be much more useful than desert empowerment in some situations. For example VG greens, gorse cc phase. Basically every situation you expect to receive a lot of dmg in very small amount of time

 😉

What was the DPS? Because I got 23k on the build I posted, but I'm also bad at that sort of thing. Also if you go with that Seraphs would just be better if you have no expertise sources outside of traits.

Edited by Lily.1935
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1 hour ago, Lily.1935 said:

What was the DPS? Because I got 23k on the build I posted, but I'm also bad at that sort of thing. Also if you go with that Seraphs would just be better if you have no expertise sources outside of traits.

Technically you could run full seraphs, but I wouldn't recommend it. Use at least some plaguedoctors or maybe shaman gear to increase you vitality a bit. Else you won't be able to consistently spam your shade abilities. (Remember soulreaping is +10% life force gain and bigger life force pool).

Also consider that full seraph will overcap critchance (69% from gear + traits, 25% from fury, + 2% per unique condition on the enemy. 

Maybe something like this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSgAs+WsT9PTA-zRRYoRDt+bIKlRXFQuJg3DA-e

+T10 Jadebot?

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10 hours ago, Nimon.7840 said:

Technically you could run full seraphs, but I wouldn't recommend it. Use at least some plaguedoctors or maybe shaman gear to increase you vitality a bit. Else you won't be able to consistently spam your shade abilities. (Remember soulreaping is +10% life force gain and bigger life force pool).

Also consider that full seraph will overcap critchance (69% from gear + traits, 25% from fury, + 2% per unique condition on the enemy. 

Maybe something like this:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PSgAs+WsT9PTA-zRRYoRDt+bIKlRXFQuJg3DA-e

+T10 Jadebot?

yeah I see where you're coming from. The lack of expertise still hurts quite a bit. I'll have to make some Seraph's rings to see the difference... Maybe I should invest in legendary rings. Really need to finish that torch too.

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