Renegade, Herald or Vindicator?

[Asek.1869]

Hi I though about returning to playing rev, I loved playing  condi renegade but nowdays I practically dont see any revs. So I want to know which class should be most rewarding, I mainly play pve open world plus fractals and sometimes strikes. What do you recommend guys?

[Polar.8634]

The best builds available for rev IMHO are: hammer herald for wvw zerg, cele/condi rene for wvw roam and open world, condialac Rene for fractal and raids, power herald for pvp. There are more options but i think they are less rewarding IMHO, hoping for buffs late August.

[Buran.3796]

   For OW PvE I currently do prefer condi (celestial) Herald due how extremely tanky is even without running Devastation. Then would follow condi Renegade (Viper/TB) because the range and TTK. But my fav OW spec currently is condi Willbender.

   No clue about Revs in instanced content: hard to justify joining groups and try to complete fractals when my 45 minutes of daily farm+ Dragonfall farm provides me ~18 gold coins soloing the content.

[Polar.8634]

7 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

   No clue about Revs in instanced content: hard to justify joining groups and try to complete fractals when my 45 minutes of daily farm+ Dragonfall farm provides me ~18 gold coins soloing the content.

Gold wise, fracs will give u same or more gold per hour, and plenty of ascended gear drops. One of places where u get lege backpack too.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

Renegade is the best one.  It has the best unique weapon, it can do good condition or power damage, the legend is the most useful, and it can give alacrity and protection to allies.  It requires the least investment to be good, and it can run several different playstyles in all game modes.

[Buran.3796]

13 hours ago, Polar.8634 said:

Gold wise, fracs will give u same or more gold per hour, and plenty of ascended gear drops. One of places where u get lege backpack too.

   Totally rigth, but:

1) Profitability on Fractals is largely related to the dificulty level and skill of the team and doing the daily; if you're on a good team of speedruners doing tier 4 cm reaching 20+ gc x hour is easy (albeit decreases once the daily is done), but if the level is lower or the team slow or you wipe the ratio decreases...   On the other hand, mining ore and gathering crops in high density areas with high speed gathering tools and farming mobs for volatile magic in DF is easy, you can't wipe or die and you don't need others to have similar profits (and when the dimisishing returns starts you just move to another VM map with slighly lower rewards.

2) Fractals are (extremely) good for gold and have nice ascended rewards, but in the mid to long run I find PvP more rewarding: got The Ascension, Trascendence and 3 full sets of legendary armors there. Thing is: I farm for gold and I PvP for fun, but at PvP I still get ~6 gc x hour at ranked and ~10 gc x hour at ATs.

[Polar.8634]

8 hours ago, Buran.3796 said:

if you're on a good team of speedruners doing tier 4 cm reaching 20+ gc x hour is easy

Just daily t4 and recs will give that, no need for cm if want easy farm(recs needed to progress on lege backpack). Also no need to be speedrunner.  Around 12-14 gold in coins, rest in materials and ascended. Doing pvp for fun is totally fine, but if we talk about gold fracs are better. I did some open world farms in season 4 to speed up lege crafts, but normally just fracs are enough for most things, takes 40-60 min depending on what is daily 

[captrowdy.9561]

I like cele ren for open world and wvw. Herald for zerging of course. 

[Aeolus.3615]

On 8/8/2022 at 11:45 PM, Polar.8634 said:

The best builds available for rev IMHO are: hammer herald for wvw zerg, cele/condi rene for wvw roam and open world, condialac Rene for fractal and raids, power herald for pvp. There are more options but i think they are less rewarding IMHO, hoping for buffs late August.

theres also Herald /ventari  think it can work in whatever gamemode but people wont take u seriously until they see they can trust u xD (known by experience)

Anet needs to buff buff back a bit herald since there has been damage and heal  nerfs, i miss my 1k regen for others only.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Polar.8634]

7 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

theres also Herald /ventari  think it can work in whatever gamemode but people wont take u seriously until they see they can trust u xD (known by experience)

It exists but is not flexible with legends, only herald plus ventary. Meaning no stab or strip. Also i personally don't like quick herald play style. 

It would work if more players on DPS support builds used stab. But now stab is expected from healer, so creating a squad takes more time.

[Aeolus.3615]

On 8/11/2022 at 10:36 PM, Polar.8634 said:

It exists but is not flexible with legends, only herald plus ventary. Meaning no stab or strip. Also i personally don't like quick herald play style. 

It would work if more players on DPS support builds used stab. But now stab is expected from healer, so creating a squad takes more time.

u can play herald with jalis and ventari, being the f2 damage reducer and heal+condi cleanse on paper and in theory setup sounds neat, on reality sill need a team that has a setup for that kinda of dps support role, so it still ends in disadvantage when there to much team  RNG.

[Polar.8634]

24 minutes ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

u can play herald with jalis and ventari, being the f2 damage reducer and heal+condi cleanse on paper and in theory setup sounds neat, on reality sill need a team that has a setup for that kinda of dps support role, so it still ends in disadvantage when there to much team  RNG.

i mean Herald + jalis or herald + ventary. healer without key boon is big dps decrease for party ofcource

also i did bit of research and herald might not be bad healer, trying it today. 

for quick dps support, still dont like it because how silly rotation on herald looks like

Edited August 17, 2022 by Polar.8634

[Esufer.8762]

For me:

WvW (Roaming): Power Herald or Cele Renegade

SPvP: Power Herald

PVE: Power Vindicator. Running a pretty braindead build that is keeping hammers/IO up, autoattacking and then death drop, GS 3 and GS5 on cooldown. Does acceptable dps, gets me my LI every week.

[Polar.8634]

did fracs t4 and strikes today on heal herald, felt good. if took dwarf stance instead ventary, heals bit lower, but damage mitigation adds up. took herald, salvation and dwart trait lines, with grandmaster trait to activate rite of the great dwarf when health drops.

[Eros.6801]

Since it's OW and assuming occasionally Frac I would say get yourself a Cele set with whatever runes you prefer but i would go with Leadership, with this setup you can freely switch between Alac and Quick and ofc both with very high boons uptime and versatile at the cost of dps, basically one set for 2 builds and i don't think it's that bad.

You can also use Zerker + Diviner for full Quick Herald meta if you like on the second gear slot or just straight up making another Cele with DPS runes/sigils for WvW and lazy OW while still being tanky and useful with tons of boon.

I'm a big fan of Cele because how rev currently plays and design, Cele makes me feel useful anywhere in the game rather than just mindlessly DPS. Another reason why i recommend Cele is because guard can also benefits greatly from Cele if you are on Asc gears, switching between two classes for a bit of fresh air never hurts once in a while.

Note : I don't like Vindicator so i'm better not put any thought on this.

Edited August 19, 2022 by Eros.6801

[ruikarikun.9402]

On 8/10/2022 at 1:09 AM, Polar.8634 said:

Just daily t4 and recs will give that, no need for cm if want easy farm(recs needed to progress on lege backpack). Also no need to be speedrunner.  Around 12-14 gold in coins, rest in materials and ascended. Doing pvp for fun is totally fine, but if we talk about gold fracs are better. I did some open world farms in season 4 to speed up lege crafts, but normally just fracs are enough for most things, takes 40-60 min depending on what is daily 

I got ~10 gold for T2 fractals.

You forgot to mention for T4 you need full asc, 150 AR, multiply infusion slots in rings etc. I mean I am talking about new players in fractals or who did not play fractals for years.

[Polar.8634]

7 hours ago, ruikarikun.9402 said:

I got ~10 gold for T2 fractals.

You forgot to mention for T4 you need full asc, 150 AR, multiply infusion slots in rings etc. I mean I am talking about new players in fractals or who did not play fractals for years.

ye there are some prerequisitions, but armor and ar are not that hard to get. At least, i did not feel it was hard. make some easy to get one, like berserker stats, AR you get gradually by just doing lower level fracs(or can buy if you want). Slots for AR: dont make slot for backpack - it very expensive and not needed. then, for rings - you will often get infused ascended rings from fracs of all tiers, save what you need. If what you need did not drop - you can infuse yourself, matherials for infusion also drop from fracs. then, for another slot, attune ring, its dirt cheap.

if u need ring or earing and it does not drop go Bitterfrost frontier map and get some fast.

when i started doing franctals i was playing herald in wvw a lot, often hammer herald in squad. so i got myself berserker armor, put scholar runes, got two swords instead of hammer(back then ppl played hammer/staff in wvw) and so i used same gear in wvw, fractals and open world. (btw now with herald buffs in pve it would work out just perfect)

 

You can check what gear would pay you off the most, and make a set as your first. Use it in many gamemods. It will bump you gold so much, you will easily get all equipement you need without thinking.

[Aeolus.3615]

On 8/17/2022 at 1:43 PM, Polar.8634 said:

i mean Herald + jalis or herald + ventary. healer without key boon is big dps decrease for party ofcource

also i did bit of research and herald might not be bad healer, trying it today. 

for quick dps support, still dont like it because how silly rotation on herald looks like

 

Initially it used to heal 16k on ventari and herald had perma regen over 1.4k per sec for its alies and was never used that way, now it has been reduced over 60% give or take.

Btw i like to recomend the use ventari has 1-1-1  since it has heal with CC on low ICD which in theory IF trait is working will heal also oin every CC apliance, but in case of condi pressure the dodge to remove condis is also a trend nowadays.

Edited August 30, 2022 by Aeolus.3615

[Polar.8634]

6 hours ago, Aeolus.3615 said:

 

Initially it used to heal 16k on ventari and herald had perma regen over 1.4k per sec for its alies and was never used that way, now it has been reduced over 60% give or take.

Btw i like to recomend the use ventari has 1-1-1  since it has heal with CC on low ICD which in theory IF trait is working will heal also oin every CC apliance, but in case of condi pressure the dodge to remove condis is also a trend nowadays.

since last comment i play heal Herald in fracs and strikes, raw healing is enough for all content. Downside is, in water fractal you dont give much might and dont have much healing beside regen and heal-on-dodge. Also if happen to get party of noobs they die and blame you for not being guardian when in fact they would die with any support anyway. On the other hand having this much CC helps with new player parties when teammates dont know how to cc.

[Aeolus.3615]

17 hours ago, Polar.8634 said:

since last comment i play heal Herald in fracs and strikes, raw healing is enough for all content. Downside is, in water fractal you dont give much might and dont have much healing beside regen and heal-on-dodge. Also if happen to get party of noobs they die and blame you for not being guardian when in fact they would die with any support anyway. On the other hand having this much CC helps with new player parties when teammates dont know how to cc.

Ventari doesn't work well in that dungeon? If needed has skills that can heal over 8k

Btw with the recent changes to the ventari and herald , Anet actually nerfed its outgoing overal heals, it was in fact a mascared nerf with tablet QoL changes, reason i have been pointing that shield 5 pulse  heals should pulse as well for the alies, Regen was actually the strong point of Herald support wihile proivding prot or other boons and still being capable of assisting with damage.

I have been trying to use words of censure from the ventari trait which will make herald heal with its CC skills (staff, axe, herald elite etc), i think it is not working properly or its so weak that doest even bother have that traited, maybe that trait could boost healing output with regen  since now tablet aplies regen tho>_>

 

Edited August 31, 2022 by Aeolus.3615